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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNeed some help re. Obama and the debt clock...
I am torn between having to clean in back of the shed or ripping this guy's throat out...Here:
Obama has doubled our debt in 8 years. How does that make us financially stronger
http://www.usdebtclock.org/current-rates.html.
Debt in 2008 when Obama took office was at $10 trillion now at $21 trillion That's financial ruin
http://www.usdebtclock.org/2008.html
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Honest.Dem
(30 posts)Here's your link to the debt clock http://www.usdebtclock.org/current-rates.html
Well, the numbers don't lie. We owe what we owe, and yes, it's twice the amount now. But it's not like the original 10-Trillion was of no consequence, and where did that come from? Much of it was created by Republicans. Both sides have irresponsibly borrowed money and all of us and our children and grandchildren will have to pay it back.
What many people don't consider is that in order to prop up this economy, Central Banks have printed all of that money and in doing so, depleted the value (spending power) of the savings accounts of millions of senior citizens, who were depending on their hard-earned savings to get them through their retirement years. You cannot print money without consequences to the value of the already existing dollars in circulation! In short, the CB's have robbed seniors!
In short, politions on both sides have been very poor stewards of the trust we placed in them to handle the finances of our country responsibly.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)(and a period got included with the first link, breaking it)
Here is the link to "Today" http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html
The current national debt is $19.4 trillion according to this site, not $21 trillion. Bush also doubled the National Debt and left unfunded war expenses for the next president to deal with. Republican policies have been generally spend like drunken sailor on credit cards (and pocketing cash advances) while bellowing about government spending, then skipping port and let the Dems clean up their messes.
Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)here's a couple of facts, fiscal year end dates, and dollar amount of debt:
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 * 1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 * 1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 * 1,377,210,000,000.00
09/30/1982 * 1,142,034,000,000.00
09/30/1981 * 997,855,000,000.00
09/30/1980 * 907,701,000,000.00
09/30/1979 * 826,519,000,000.00
09/30/1978 * 771,544,000,000.00
09/30/1977 * 698,840,000,000.00
06/30/1976 * 620,433,000,000.00
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm
09/30/2015 18,150,617,666,484.33
09/30/2014 17,824,071,380,733.82
09/30/2013 16,738,183,526,697.32
09/30/2012 16,066,241,407,385.89
09/30/2011 14,790,340,328,557.15
09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
Now look at the numbers, Raygun single handedly tripled the national debt, combined with his one term successor, they quadrupled the debt. Every other president in history spent under 1 trillion, all combined, Raygun took 900 billion and made it 2.7 trillion, and if you want to call every other president in history's combined debt 1 trillion, after Raygun and Poppy were done, it was 4 trillion.
You can make the argument that Clinton, in 8 years, added 1.7 trillion, by the end of his last fiscal year budget. Of course, he had a 5 trillion dollar projected 10 year SURPLUS, and that projection was taken as gospel truth by republicans to get little bush's tax cuts pushed through. Still, the score is 'every president in history up through Carter-1 trillion, Clinton-1.7 trillion, and 2 republicans-3 trillion added to the debt.
Then that clown little bush came in, and turned the entire 5.7 trillion from everyone into 11.9 trillion by the end of his last fiscal year budget. Ignoring the unpaid for liabilities, he single handedly outspent every president in history. Total score, last 3 republican presidents-9 trillion, every other president-2.7 trillion added to the debt.
Now talk about the cost drivers for Obama's 'reckless spending binge' on little bush's unpaid for liabilities: the cost of the Iraq war, budgeted at zero dollars by the bush admin, the cost of winding down 2 disastrous wars prosecuted by bush, the cost of a massive influx of injured war vets who need care now, the cost of dealing with massive destabilization in the mid east caused by bush's foreign policy fiascos, the cost of the unfunded disastrous massive non-competitive priced give away to bush's friends in big Pharma through the Medicare Part D drug expansion, the cost of foregone tax revenue caused by bush's supremely-tilted-toward-the-rich tax cuts, enacted while a war was going on, the cost of half of the 1.5 trillion dollar bailout to wall street caused by bush's massive deregulation driven financial collapse, and trillions more needed afterward to fix that collapse.
The argument could be made that Obama spent 8 trillion dollars. It isn't an honest argument. Another argument could be made that the last 3 republican fiscal hero presidents spent 10 trillion, every other president spent 2.7 trillion combined, and Obama spent 7 trillion, or he spent a bit more than a third of the total existing debt. And this occurred after their last 3 presidents tripled / quadrupled, then doubled the entire debt of all other administrations, combined. If he had made the national debt 25 trillion, he would have performed as badly as little bush did, if he made it 37.5 trillion he'd be like saint raygun, but of course little bush was dealing with a 5 trillion dollar surplus, and Prez O was dealing with a little bush sponsored economic collapse. And you should understand that we have actually spent more than 2 trillion dollars on interest payments --for debt service caused by the republicans' national debt -- we've spent more than 2 trillion dollars in the last 8 years on that ALONE.
If you look at the debt numbers as of the end of each prez admin's last budgets, fiscal year end standings, and look at all the unfunded mandates little bush forced on Obama, you can easily destroy any republican attempt at appearing to be upset by out of control spending and debt. They try to spend the US into bankruptcy, and try to leave the bill for their Dem successors, try to make sure the cupboards are bare when a Dem is coming into office, then their partisans try to cry crocodile tears about how much the debt upsets them. Prez O's performance on the budget and economy has been heroic, and he was hamstrung by the constant debt default brinksmanship and fillibustering by the 'loyal' opposition. He should have been able to spend more to help the economy recover from the republican crash, more jobs money would have helped American citizens instead of Wall St enjoying and hogging the huge benefits from the recovery.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Really. I learned a lot. (and remembered a lot) 
Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)Carter's out in 1/81, his last budget goes to 9/30/81.
Raygun's out in 1/89, his last budget goes to 9/30, etc.
Where are the numbers in 1/93 and 9/93, in 1/01 and 9/01, in 1/09, and 9/09. And look at all the financial shit-head-ery they pulled during little bush and charged to our Prez's admin. Then they feign concern about the debt? Running on Taxed Enough Already and 'supremely worried about the national debt', at the same time? It's a trojan horse for slashing social programs, Raygun's budget director Stockman openly admitted it. And they steal trillions of tax dollars from the US public, with every move they make.
They're just such liars, it's hard to wrap my head around it sometimes.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Bush's Reganesque tax cuts coupled with an economic downturn turn + the financial impact of 911 had left us bleeding money. The largely unfunded wars was another factor.
Senator Obama had promised to reverse the Bush Tax cuts during his campaign.but in 2010 he lobbied his lame duck Democratic majority to prevent the cuts from automatically sunsetting and they were extended.
He also had a payroll deductions tax cut passed that IMO further harmed SS.
The gross debt to GDP ratio was about 75% in 2008 and it is about 106% today. During this same period corporate profits have hit some historic highs and have grown by >170%.
So I can't comment on if he had any choice but in my unsophisticated financial opinion his fiscal policies looked a lot like the trickle down policies of Reagan and Dubya. We bled money.
We had some social benefit cuts in there too including cuts to LEAP (home heating oil assistance) that President Obama inexplicably lobbied for (Congress cut it less then he wanted) and cuts to the food stamps program as examples. We also added 8 million more to the ranks of those living in poverty to make it 47 million.
It is what it is.
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,767 posts)Not just in the US but worldwide. Not only citizens but business and governments.
Here is a link to get you started. But just google " debt based economy" and get prepared to shake your head. Economics is not at all one of my strong points and some of this is way over my feeble brain so I can be of no real help in explaining. This term came to my attention when I was going thru a medical bankruptcy. My lawyer who is also an econ major tried to explain it to me. He saw the absolute lost look on my face and told me if I wanted look it up, the web could explain it better and clearer than he could. So I did.
http://www.permanentculturenow.com/the-real-economic-scandal-understanding-the-debt-based-economy/
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)He started with $10 trillion and it's now at $21 trillion. So he has doubled our debt in 8 years. It took all the presidents before him to get it to $10 trillion.
As stated in other comments, the current debt is NOT 21 trillion - it's 19 trillion. And "he" didn't do it all single-handedly anyway. The results of the recession were the cause of a lot of the debt at the beginning of his first term. Bush's last budget was actually the first budget that ever had a $1 trillion deficit - a mess that he left for Obama to try to clean up. But he can't do it all by himself. Ever since the Repubs took back the House in 2011, it has been like pulling teeth to get anything done.
Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)If you're honestly concerned and need help, you have your answer there, laydee.
lakeguy
(1,640 posts)show the timeline for Bush and then Obama. i'm pretty sure that it's gone down since the massive numbers Bush left us with in 08.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)In 2008 revenue vs spending as a share of the GDP were 35.1% and 40.5% respectively.
Today they are 35.9% and 37% respectively.
The deficit has been shrinking more due to spending cuts then increased revenues.
The budget deficit today is $553.5 billion.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Government figures straight from Treasury Direct. Jan 17th, 2009, Federal Debt Held By Public was 6.3 trillion.
Today:
http://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
It is over 14 trillion currently. More than doubled.
Total Debt Outstanding (includes intragovernmental, i.e. fake trust funds) has almost doubled, and will be about double when Obama's term ends. Look at the beginning and ending figures (far right column) for this sequence from the same government website:
http://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/search?startMonth=01&startDay=17&startYear=2009&endMonth=08&endDay=19&endYear=2016
