Do We Have to Hate Russia?

[yellowwoodII]

I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that the negative propaganda against Russia and Putin is ramping up. When I see that happening, I suspect that there are powers that want us to get into some conflict with Russia. We will have to send our military to "save" somebody.
It's not that I admire Putin. But we support a lot of leaders who are no better.
Basically, I don't want us to get involved in any more wars.

[First Speaker]

1. No, but it lets everybody be lazy...

...just conjure up a "Russian" menace, and you can avoid thinking. Some even combine it with a "Red" menace, even though Putin is far from a Communist, despite his KGB roots. Make no mistake--Putin is an authoritarian who more-or-less explicitly challenges the Western Liberal Democracy paradigm. But Russia isn't nearly as powerful as it was during the Cold War, and dealing with him isn't that hard to do. (I remember an old phrase--Russia is never as strong, or as weak, as it appears to be.) I would also suggest that our European allies, particularly Britain and Germany, should be listened to carefully regarding Russia--they're closer to it, and have centuries of experience...

[geek tragedy]

2. Hate is inappropriate, as is naïveté. nt

[Jeffersons Ghost]

21. Here is a nation that benefits from conflict between Russia and the USA...

As Russia enters a war or Vietnam-style conflict with the USA, they become more dependent on China and must reduce the cost of oil exports to the nation, to finance any kid of large-scale conflict. Both the USA and Russia are forced to borrow even more money from China. When we have a new Vietnam conflict with Russia, in Syria, China wins, without deploying a single soldier. As Russia and the USA get troops killed in Syria, we ruin our reputations by pushing terrorists out of the Mid-East and into Europe, where they slaughter unsuspecting citizens, in brutal bombing.

[geek tragedy]

24. Russia isn't the focal point of our foreign policy, they're one problematic star in an entire

constellation

we're not going to engage in a full-out cold war with them--they don't merit that kind of effort, expense and risk

the Chinese and the US are massively interdependent, something neither would be willing admit in public

[bluedye33139]

3. Crimea? Hacking organized by government operatives? Thousands of LGBT kidnapping victims?

Jill Stein? I don't hate Russia and the Russians, but I absolutely do not want a world in which Russian values succeed in destroying the values of justice and equality and progress. The Russian campaign against the Ukraine represents a threat to World Peace. I don't know why my voice transcription capitalized that, however.

[liberal N proud]

4. Don't have to hate them, but never trust them

[A HERETIC I AM]

5. I wonder if any Russian ever asked a similar question on FB n/t

[msanthrope]

6. You conflate Russia and Putin. nt

[yardwork]

7. Oh FFS.

[emulatorloo]

8. I really don't think this CT that HRC 'will start WWIII' is gonna get much traction here at DU.

Maybe that's not what you are implying?

Additionally only a handful of DU'ers "hate Russia". That a massive DU crowd hates Russia and the Russian people is a big ole Strawman.

Most DU'ers have a problem with Putin: murdering reporters, draconian laws targeting LGTB, agressivness against Ukraine. Many are not happy that Putin is attempting to help Donald Trump win the election.

As far as I am concerned, those are valid reasons for DU'ers to dislike Putin.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

23. Putin openly supports Trump, although Trump has business dealings with the Russian Mafia...

Odd relationship isn't it?

[Duckhunter935]

9. Never have hated Russia

I do not agree with Putin and his policies such as invading and annexing parts of sovereign nations. His policies and treatment of the LGBT community, the press and his opposition. I actually feel sorry for the Russian people. I wish you would not conflate the two. It seems you are a supporter of him and those policies.

[pressbox69]

10. If Trump does win

we should play follow the leader and learn to love Putin.

[Maeve]

11. There is no point in hating Russia

But there is no good that will come from trusting Putin. He's KGB to the core and wants to be head of a super-power.
What you are seeing on the left is an antidote to the trust the GOP has put in that strongman since Dubya called him "Pootie-poot" and claimed to have seen into his soul. Hillary isn't going to start any wars, but she's not going to let him run wild, either.

[Adrahil]

12. Well said.

[Major Nikon]

18. IBTL!

[Mc Mike]

20. Boy, did YOU take a right turn at Albuquerque. Shoulda gone left, now you're lost.

[Major Nikon]

22. He's dead, Jim

[Maeve]

32. Ah, I missed it!

Altho I can guess the type, as it's auto-removed

[NuclearDem]

33. What was your favorite part?

Mine was "Putin can go ahead and castrate all Russian homosexuals because Saudi Arabia."

[Mc Mike]

42. DUNT dun duuun.

[Adrahil]

13. AS someone who had family killed and oppressed by the Soviets for DECADES...

I cannot and will not trust a KGB officer who longs for the days of the Soviet Empire.

[NuclearDem]

15. Same here.

[LWolf]

14. "We" don't have to do a damned thing

just because propaganda tells us to. As a matter of fact, I think we ought to be refuting propaganda at every turn. And that includes the propaganda from "our" side that some hammer others with 24/7.

I just read, a few minutes ago, a FB post by a journalist pointing out the increase in red-baiting and predicting a return of the HUAC in some form.

We've gone a couple of decades without living on the edge of the cold war. I guess the warmongers among us, like the racists and misogynists, can't keep their proclivities from bursting out from their cellars when given any encouragement at all.

[Avalux]

17. No we don't, but we also don't want them to have an inside man sitting in the WH.

That's exactly what would happen if Trump wins, although he won't sit in the WH, it's not fancy enough for him. He'll sit on his golden throne in his gaudy golden estate in Florida.

There's a difference between diplomacy and working with other countries and being their lackey.

[DetlefK]

19. Negative propaganda like what?

Putin being an authoritarian ruler who stuffs political positions with old friends from the KGB?

Putin's friends just happening to be filthy rich?

Homosexuals treated like crap in Russia?

The russian attorney-general having the power to unilaterally dissolve any russian organization that receives funding from foreign sources, without double-check by anybody else, without a trial in court and without a right to appeal?

The russian government supporting a corrupt, murderous, torturing madman like Kadyrov in Chechnya, yet lecturing other countries about their failures?

Russia casually invading Georgia like it ain't a thing?

Russia casually invading Crimea like it ain't a thing?

Russia moving against a russian organization of mothers of russian soldiers when those russian mothers started asking questions whether russian soldiers are fighting in Ukraine?

Russia casually supporting a corrupt, murderous, torturing madman like Assad in Syria, yet lecturing other countries about their failures?

Russian emigration of wealthy and educated Russians increasing almost tenfold whenever Putin is in office? (It was up when Putin first was President, then it dropped again when Medvedjev became President, then it increased again when Putin became President again.)








If you want to read propaganda, go to Russia Today. RT has two modi operandi for writing propaganda-articles:

* If a situation makes Russia or Russians look bad, start cutting info from the story until it sounds neutral.
Example: When russian hooligans and british hooligans clashed in Marseille, RT did an elaborate linguistic dance to avoid mentioning that russian hooligans attacked british hooligans.

* If you absolutely have to mention something you don't want to mention, mention it at the beginning and then distract the reader by bombarding him with unrelated stuff and switch topics to something that makes the reader forget what the article originally was about.
Example: Recently a photo of syrian boy who had survived an arial bombing in Aleppo went viral. The bombing was done maybe by Assad's airforce, but most likely by the russian airforce. So what did RT do? They reported on the photo for maybe two sentences and then spent the rest of the lengthy article blaming the US for Saudi-Arabia's bombings in Yemen.

And don't get me talking about the pro-Trump and anti-Clinton propaganda on RT.

[treestar]

25. When the USSR dissolved

and we had no enemy, the MIC created one in the ME.

Russia would be better if we must have one - they are least would be "above" terrorism and they want to really be a second superpower as the USSR once was.

Though that may be over simplistic as oil is more of an issue. Both we and Russia need to leave the ME alone and buy the oil at the prices it fetches and quit trying to control everything.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

31. It's not just Putin, who openly endorces Trump. Kim Jong Un of North Korea wants him to rule the USA

Meanwhile Chinese media portrays the Trump campaign as a massive comedy, which proves that the unwashed masses are not qualified to pick leaders, in free elections.

[Rex]

26. Don't hate the people, hate the leaders that brought them to the dance.

Putin is a cold blooded dictator, so if I hate him for being such then that is my right.

[Binkie The Clown]

28. It's our patriotic duty to hate SOMEBODY. It might as well be Russia.

[Iggo]

30. Have a wonderful day.

[mythology]

34. It's not negative propaganda, it's the truth

Putin is a piece of shit. But we aren't going to war with Russia. In the end while Putin will do relatively small scale invasions like with Crimea and Georgia, he won't go far enough to make us have to go to war as he knows he can't actually win.

But the thing about unilaterally saying you won't go to war is that people will believe you and realize that you won't use force and thus make war more likely.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

36. Vietnam teaches neither France nor the USA can "actually win" these expensive petty conflicts either

[E-Z-B]

35. We need some justification to fund the defense industry

instead of funding our infrastructure, decaying cities, and public transportation.

[MFM008]

37. It's Putin

And his cronies. The old KGB gang.

[pampango]

38. Who hates Russia? Most of us wish the Russian people and their neighbors nothing but the best.

Anyone can disagree with another country's foreign policy actions without hating the country or its people

[Bradical79]

39. I'm not sure what propaganda you are talking about

I don't like Putin because of who he is and what he has said and done directly. There are plenty of great things about Russia, little of which have anything to do with Putin and political diacussion though. What I don't get is certain leftists and their love affair with the current regime. Russia is even further from being a leftest state than we are at the moment.

[Egnever]

40. According to my Russian immigrant friend

Yes we do.

[Ex Lurker]

41. No, but we should be very, very wary of Putin nt

[davidn3600]

43. Government needs someone to blame to take attention off of any corruption