Donald Trump's and Vladimir Putin's Shared Agenda Should Alarm Anyone Concerned About Democracy

[BumRushDaShow]

By Charles P. Pierce
Jul 24, 2016

PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA—Back during the late Avignon Presidency, Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo noticed something hinky going on at the Department of Justice regarding the appointment and dismissal of various U.S. Attorneys around the country. So he dug around, stayed with the story and, eventually, it blew up as a legitimate scandal that touched not only the DOJ but also provided a window into the phony "voter fraud" campaigns that lie behind various voter-suppression schemes that continue to plague the country. Since then, when Marshall gets his teeth into something, the rest of us should start to pay attention, and right now he's onto the strange collusion between He, Trump and Vladimir Putin, and he is sounding a fire bell in the night, to borrow the image used by local Philadelphia transient Thomas Jefferson to describe slavery.

In brief: In his business dealings, He, Trump seems increasingly dependent on money from Russia and from the former Soviet republics within its increasingly active sphere of influence. This is because most of the big banks on this side of the pond won't go near him without HazMat suits. (Gee, could it be that his sudden emergence as a Warren-esque crusader against the "rigged system" of the banksters is less of a principled opposition and simply pure animal vengeance? Unpossible!) As Marshall points out, this isn't exactly a deep corporate secret, as The Washington Post explained:

Trump has conveyed a different view, informed in part through his business ambitions. Since the 1980s, Trump and his family members have made numerous trips to Moscow in search of business opportunities, and they have relied on Russian investors to buy their properties around the world. "Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets," Trump's son, Donald Jr., told a real estate conference in 2008, according to an account posted on the website of eTurboNews, a trade publication. "We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia."

The dynamic illustrates the extent to which Trump's worldview has been formed through the lens of commerce rather than the think tanks, government deliberations and international diplomatic conferences that typically shape the foreign policy positions of presidential candidates. It also reflects Trump's willingness to see world leaders through his own personal connections. In a Republican Party in which an ability to stand up to Putin has been seen as a test of toughness, Trump's relationship with the Russian leader is instead one of mutual flattery. Putin said in December that Trump was a "colorful and talented" person, a compliment that Trump said at the time was an "honor."

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http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a46984/donald-trump-vladimir-putin/

[RonniePudding]

1. Kick

Pierce is spot on. This should be the only thing that pig should be asked about.

[msanthrope]

2. Kick. nt

[avaistheone1]

3. Given we are talking about DEMOCRACY

the way Debbie Wasserman Schultz runs the DNC is a problem. She is running more like the Russians would.

The DNC is not following it own rules. It is not acting as a neutral party and has favored one candidate over another. Something I would expect would happen in Russia without anyone blicking an eye.

[BumRushDaShow]

4. The primary is over

The issue is Trump.

[sheshe2]

6. Not sure why many here don't get that. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

14. It's obvious what it is

"Civil disobedience", internet-style.

[we can do it]

19. +1000

[avaistheone1]

7. This is about the DNC.

That doesn't wash, it is not about the primary. Nice try in dodging the issue.

The DNC's neutrality is in question and what they did to tip the scales.

[msanthrope]

8. How did the DNC tip millions of POC and women voters? Tell us. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

12. My OP is not about the DNC

The voters had their say regardless of whether DWS did anything nefarious or not.

The danger is Donald J. Trump, the lunatics who will vote for him, and the media who has enabled him to get this far in order to get the ratings they crave. Anyone trying to suppress the effort to not have him gain the White House is an enabler of him IMHO.

[NuclearDem]

5. Ridiculous hyperbole.

The primary's over. Move on.

[avaistheone1]

9. I suppose so

if you don't believe in fairness and democracy.

[NuclearDem]

13. The DNC didn't force millions of people to vote for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders.

A lecture about "fairness and democracy" is absolutely laughable coming from the camp that wanted the person who won the most votes either ousted via superdelegates or criminal indictment.

The indictment fairy isn't coming, the superdelegates aren't going to switch, and a handful of DNC staffers complaining about the guy suing and threatening them didn't cause millions of people to switch their votes. You lost. Get over it, and move on.

[sheshe2]

16. +1000

Well said, NuclearDem.

[BumRushDaShow]

21. You just reminded me of this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512236658

[we can do it]

18. What does this have to do with Putin and Trump?

[DinahMoeHum]

10. For Josh Marshall's take on this (which Pierce mentions)

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing

[sheshe2]

11. KnR

Thank you to Josh Marshall. Trump surely needs to be hammered on these connections.

Frightening.

Thanks, BRDS.

[Will Morningstar]

15. Do people generally tell the truth at the top of their lungs?

I know I'm the new kid, but try this on for size:

First, what does DJT shout the loudest? Billionaire. Hey, everybody, look at me. Check the flash: that obscene jet, faux-presidential chopper, gold-plated crapper, etc. What if he's in debt up to his eyeballs, without a sous? Ask his creditors in Atlantic City.

What does VVP shout the loudest? Let us return to the power and prestige of the former Soviet Union, back when folks took us seriously. What if they're on shakier ground than they're letting on?

What if this storyline is being driven by mutual necessity?

[BumRushDaShow]

17. "What if they're on shakier ground than they're letting on?"

They ARE on shakier ground. There are some pretty significant sanctions on Russia (including Putin and his buddies) because of what happened in Crimea. The EU sanctions were just renewed July 1st for 6 more months.

[Will Morningstar]

20. Then we need to stake out and hold the high ground, hammer the issues, and avoid the personalities.

If DJT has indeed crossed the line, we must leave his ultimate fate in the hands of the professionals.

[BumRushDaShow]

22. The current GOP through Trump, has painted the world as an evil place

as a tactic based on anger and FUD that tends to motivate their loyal base, but is something that their god Ronald Wilson Reagan actually avoided doing both in 1980 (& 1984). Reagan instead focused on "Americana" and what is "great" about this nation, sadly contrasting with Carter who was juggling a lot of unnecessary crap (Iranian Revolution and hostages) and a media drumbeat of counting days.

That is the high road to take.

[Will Morningstar]

23. and as only national governments have the power to stand up to combines and trusts,

our only possible defenders are demonized in the eyes of the weak and unsophisticated. This is why DJT "loves the poorly educated", as have the neoconservative/theocratic axis who have hijacked the G.O.P.

We're going to need that high ground. We've got a jobload of defending to do.

[BumRushDaShow]

26. What might help though is this -

Despite a subset of the electorate who might like his "bravado" and "flashiness", there is also a large subset who do NOT stand for "rudeness" and any other behavior that is not considered "gentleman-like" (as a societal definition). And Trump's crassness (to the point of being craven of late), is a turn-off to many who might have been attracted to his "veneer" of being some sort of savvy businessman.

[Will Morningstar]

29. Mr. Trump's "Rudeness", for which he has always been his best salesman.

Mr. Trump does'nt need our help to convince people he's one jack-rude piece of work.

Our primary responsibility, even more important than "getting elected", "making government work", or the relative importance of policy development vs. organizational expertise, is convincing people that GOVERNMENT IS NOT YOUR ENEMY, all the X-files villians are not coming to get you, and you don't need to hide in the basement.

We have still not answered President Reagan's most effective psyop ("joke&quot : "Hi, I'm from the GOVERNMENT and I'm here to HELP you!"

Well, DAMN STRAIGHT we are!

[BumRushDaShow]

33. Well take their "Obamacare" away

and see what happens.

[Will Morningstar]

34. In six months it's "The Affordable Care Act" again; no Barack Obama to kick around anymore.

[BumRushDaShow]

35. Yup

and they will try to take credit for it after voting to repeal it 60+ times.

[Will Morningstar]

36. Remember the 2012 insurance lobby superpac "Thank God we don't have to line up in CANADA?!"

Last week I celebrated the 10th anniversary of my US$125 thousand hip and pelvic replacement, state-of the art plastic bone, better than the original, cost me not one penny, because I live in CANADA.

Unfortunately, successive Republican administrations and the insurance lobby have together made it impossible for the U.S. to ever have rational public health care like all other grownup western democracies, because it would cost you trillions to indemnify the insurance companies for sixty years of future lost profits, should a future progressive administration ever attempt this now-impossible task.

Now, back to the OP: Give Castro and Putin SOME credit; at least they have world-class health care.

[BumRushDaShow]

37. In probably all of the cases

of national healthcare systems, the rest of the world charges some sort of national VAT to fund it. The devil in the details here is whether similar funding might come from a national sales tax, although the RW here have been pushing that for a different reason - to replace income taxes!

[Will Morningstar]

41. BRDS: Did you notice we're currently getting flamed on another thread? Check trending.

Posted a denial that we're not just making this up to distract from DNC e-mails.

[BumRushDaShow]

46. Wouldn't be surprised

I posted a video in post #43 where Trump actually noted that he had "visited Moscow" 2 years ago and seemed to rattle of all people, Bill O'Reilly with all the Putin b.s.

[Will Morningstar]

44. Back on topic, in Canada 1965, Liberal minority govt., w support of Conservative premiers, no VAT

[BumRushDaShow]

48. But then they are still taxing for it in any case

via the provinces' contributions.

IMHO, attempting to do a "Medicare for All" here would be the easiest way to transition to national healthcare, and in that case, the Medicare "premiums" would be paid via what is currently done via a payroll tax. However the issue would be funding for those not in the workforce (whether by choice or not). And that is where in Canada, there is corporate contribution that would be difficult to get enacted here.

[Will Morningstar]

49. Exactly. You must play the hand you're dealt. Incrementally, involving the insurers,

with an insurer of last resort, much like present A.C.A. Could start by funding the 20% top-up, and go from there, eh?

Incidentally, they're now calling us Ratf**kers, and e-mail fabricators. I assured them I simply don't DO e-mail (never have, wise choice), and besides, I'm a Liberal RatPACKer, not a RatF**Ker, and I told the instigator, "That's MR. Ratpacker to you".

[BumRushDaShow]

50. I think you misinterpreted that OP

which is actually supporting getting this info out there...!

[Will Morningstar]

51. It is as you say in the most recent posts, but the OP accused anyone talking Trump/Putin

of "obfuscation", by changing the subject in a "Ratf**king" way, (whatever that is) to deliberately distract attention from the only thing that should matter ANYWHERE on DU, the DNC Wasserman-Schultz Affair. Read the top, not the bottom, and you'll see what I mean. C'mon. Cheez 4 the rats? WTF?

[BumRushDaShow]

52. The first sentence was confusing

but the very last sentence in that OP clears it up rather nicely.

[Will Morningstar]

53. Yes, I agree. We must all give each other benefit of the doubt, & keep eyes on the prize.

[ashling]

24. Remember when DT said that if he lost we wouldn't see him anymore?

I guess the Russian Mob doesn't like it when their conditions aren't met.

[Will Morningstar]

25. "You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore" -- Richard Nixon, ca. 195?

[elmac]

27. DU allowing anti Bernie posts

alarms me more

[BumRushDaShow]

28. But what does that have to do with the OP?

There is a new jury system so folks need to use it and report it.

[SunSeeker]

31. Really? Some website meta concerns you more than Putin subverting our democracy?

[Will Morningstar]

32. Bernie Sanders is the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. Now, back to the OP... [see above]

[SunSeeker]

30. Charlie Pierce is spot on. nt

[lark]

38. Oh please oh please, I want to see this in an ad using drumpf jr's words

and it would be awesome if there's video of that, alongside all of putin's and drumpf love fest proclamations. This is heinous and needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

[BumRushDaShow]

43. Check this out

From a month ago. This was enough to apparently make O'Reilly throw up a little in his mouth!

[bluedigger]

39. Explains why the Kochs are throwing in with Johnson, too.

No way those Birchers are backing the Russian mob's man for President.

[HipChick]

40. K&R

[Rex]

42. They are good buddies! Sorry Dubya...Pooty has a new BFF!

Thankfully Trump has no chance in hell.

[AgadorSparticus]

45. K&R

[superpatriotman]

47. I've long been suspicious of the Drumpf online support

Now I know where it comes from: Russian click farms.

There is no way every Internet forum ( not DU ) has so many unwavering supporters of this puppet. It's bought and paid for by Putin.

[fleabiscuit]

54. K&R, and all the side links in the story should be read IMHO. nt

[mia]

55. k & r

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