Man shot in road rage upset that prosecutor won’t file charges

[proud2BlibKansan]

A motorcyclist who was shot in the chest by a motorist during a road rage incident in O’Fallon, Mo., spoke out Tuesday, asking for a grand jury to hear the case and criticizing the St. Charles County prosecutor for not filing charges.

“But for the grace of God, I would be a dead man,” the motorcyclist, Keith Randell, 49, of St. Ann, said Tuesday, reading from a statement at his attorney’s office in Clayton.

“This is the result of an aggressive driver,” Randell said. “He chose to shoot me when he was not in fear of any serious injury.”

St. Charles County prosecutor Jack Banas said Monday he would not file criminal charges against the motorist, adding the man was justified in shooting because the motorcyclist first reached into his car and punched him.

On Tuesday, Banas said his decision was final, unless police presented new evidence.


Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/13/3655984/man-shot-in-road-rage-upset-that.html#storylink=cpy

[raps]

1. Maybe Randall should have

never gotten off his motorcycle and been comfortable knowing that nothing bad came of the poor driving. When you go looking for trouble by approaching someone in an intense emotional state you should always expect trouble in return. So, what did we learn today? Be happy with what you have when you come out of a bad accidental life situation unscathed and don't go looking to blame someone else for something that no longer matters.

[greiner3]

94. Since you are new;

I am sure you don't know how to work the 'smilies.'

Above this box is an icon 'smilies.' You click on it and a large number of other icons appear. At the bottom of this is a little boxy icon with three dots. Click on this icon and MORE icons appear. I know this sounds complicated, but stick with me. The icon you want is the one with SARCASM in red letters with what looks like either red rain or blood dripping down. Click on this and appears in your post. Don't worry, will not appear in your post but the actual icon will. If you don't believe me, click the 'Preview' button at the bottom and the actual icon will show. Then, if you are ready, click 'Post my Reply!' But I know you have done this last 24 times so you should not have any trouble.

I hope you find this tutorial handy and informative.

Be well.

[dubient]

97. Ummm..

Are you being sarcastic?

[Maraya1969]

139. I think so and I think he hoped like I do that the first commenter

was being sarcastic. But I don't think he was.

[L0oniX]

140. There's a lot of people out there that need anger managment class.

[FarPoint]

156. That is a very realistic point of view.

I agree...Welcome to DU.

[yellowcanine]

205. Hear hear. All road rage will get you is dead - from a heart attack if not from being shot.

Road rage can be controlled. Uncontrolled it increases stress which is unhealthy.

[Hoyt]

2. Another reason to reconsider these type gun laws.

The prosecutor went on to say: He pointed out that he is bound to uphold the state statute. "It’s a very difficult case, and I don’t necessarily agree that he should be able to use that much force in this situation, but the statute gives him that, and that’s what we’re left with.”

[hack89]

3. Lessons learned: stay on your bike and don't assault someone first. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

4. I'm mystified by this notion

I simply don't understand this idea that if somebody is punching you, you can shoot them in the chest, or head, or whatever. Maybe it's just the way I grew up - where there were frequent fistfights. You see enough fistfights, you realize that mostly, people don't even get badly hurt in one. If you've been in enough fistfights, you realize this, too, even if you lose badly to somebody much bigger. You can take an "L" and not be all that badly injured.

It just seems disproportional.

Granted, on very rare occasions somebody is "punched to death," but it is very, very, very rare.

Granted, for some demographic groups, being on the losing end of a fistfight is less severe than for others. Fine, I get that an 80 year old woman or someone like that might be far more vulnerable to serious injury from punching. OK, fine.

But still. The idea that if somebody starts punching at you, you get to shoot them is just weird to me. It seems, I dunno, weak. Scared and weak. I mean, we used to hold people in contempt for things like throwing sand at a dude when losing a fight. It was weakling stuff, poor form. These gun folks shoot a guy who's kicking their ass? It's weak. Maybe I'm missing something. I don't get it.

[hack89]

13. Over 700 people a year are murdered by "hands, fists or feet"

And I am sure many more are seriously injured, crippled or maimed.

If I am assaulted by someone, why should I gamble that my injuries will be minor? Why should I pay the price for guessing wrong?

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. I get your point

I still think that 700 is very very very rare relative to the number of unarmed assaults or fights total.

Yeah, you don't wanna gamble on what's probably less than 1%, and maybe even less than 1/10 of 1%. Fine. It still strikes me as disproportional and kinda weak. You were in the Navy, right? You even have combat training. It just seems like kinda, well, I dunno how to say it. As teenagers we'd just scrunch our noses up and turn away. It's dishonorable, I guess.

[hack89]

35. I am now a 50 year old man with physical disablities

getting severely hurt in a fight I wanted nothing to do with is not honorable. Stupid is the proper word.

You seem to think getting assaulted is some kind of mutual activity where both sides must adhere to some schoolyard code of ethics. I view it as a violent crime and I will defend myself anyway I see fit.

[Hoyt]

38. From what I read in article, guy could have driven off. I think prosecutor nailed it.

"It’s a very difficult case, and I don’t necessarily agree that he should be able to use that much force in this situation, but the statute gives him that, and that’s what we’re left with.”

Sorry, to use that much force when there are other options is criminal, immoral, and downright wrong. And I'm no friend of someone on an unmuffled motorcycle.

[hack89]

43. The guy on the bike made the choice to violently assault someone.

an assault with the potential to seriously hurt or even kill. He is lucky he didn't pay a higher price for his stupidity.

[Hoyt]

44. Still could have driven off. And it doesn't sound like the shooter was "beaten" close to death.

To shoot someone in chest when you can push a button and roll up the window and drive off is wrong.

I know the gun culture wants few restrictions on when a guy with a gun can shoot or intimidate people, but this is ridiculous.

Plus the driver pulled the gun first, laying it on his lap.

[hack89]

46. And you know for a fact that he could have driven away? Show me. nt

[Hoyt]

49. Read the article, bike was behind him. And driver left the scene of the shooting after he shot him.

Go out to your car and see how hard you can "punch" the seat while standing outside your car. The driver pulled his gun first, escalating things, and the driver could have driven off without further incident. Instead, he shot the guy in the chest.

And he ran away -- like a common criminal -- after shooting the guy. Heck, even Zimmerman stuck around after shooting unarmed teenager.

[SGMRTDARMY]

53. He left because he didn't know it the guys wife

had a gun or not. He took himself and his wife away from the danger zone, which was the correct thing to do. Your flailing here Hoyt. A blow to the head can kill someone, especially an elderly person. If I saw someone bigger than me approaching me in anger, I too would pull my gun and put it on my lap.

If Randall had not approached him and then punched him, none of this would have happened. Your bias is really clouding your judgement.

[Hoyt]

56. I don't care why he left, he did. Should have done it before pulling his gun. And he shouldn't

have gone home. Drive up the road, drive to the police station, whatever.

If gun carrier had driven off, none of this would have happened.

In fact, I'll go as far to say that if shooter didn't have a gun, he would have driven off before ever being punched. Just like Zimmerman would never have gotten out of his car to pursue and shoot an unarmed teen.

Driver is just another bully with a gun, ready to use it at the first opportunity. The right wing NRA backed gun laws help folks like that.

[SGMRTDARMY]

59. Your were not there Hoyt

you don't know what went on. Bottom line is that Randall should never have gotten off his bike and assaulted the man.
And the police and DA say it was self defense.
I'll defer to them rather than you.

[Hoyt]

63. Neither were you. DA said he thinks it is wrong, but he has no choice under state's gun laws.

That's the point that you keep missing. These laws encourage this stuff.

If this shooter were not protected by the right wing NRA gun laws, he would be prosecuted and the next guy in that situation would not feel free to blast away.

[SGMRTDARMY]

70. Did you even read the article?

Nowhere does the DA say he thinks it is wrong but he has no choice under the state's gun laws. Also, the driver left because he was in fear of his, his wife's, and his 9yo grandson's life, he drove them home and then went to the nearest police station and turned himself in.
And, unless he is charged and convicted, he can't be civilly sued under MO. law.

Next time try reading the article first before making statements that can be checked out and shown to be untrue.
Bottom line, AGAIN, Randall was an asshole for getting off of his bike, approaching the car, reaching in and punching a senior citizen.
Randall is fucking lucky he's not being charged with violence on a senior citizen. He's also lucky to be alive to bitch and moan.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Hoyt]

72. This is what he said, if you read to the bottom of the article:

“It’s a very difficult case, and I don’t necessarily agree that he should be able to use that much force in this situation, but the statute gives him that, and that’s what we’re left with.”

I think the way I paraphrased it is correct. But, please show me where I am wrong.

[SGMRTDARMY]

78. In this situation

he's not saying that he disagrees with the law in general.
And you called the driver of the car a criminal, when that is patently false, he got himself and his family out of danger, took them home and then turned himself in to the police, does that sound like a criminal?

Your very obvious bias towards gun owners has so clouded your judgement that you can't be fair about self defense shooting even when it is clearly justified.

[Honeycombe8]

143. It's the law in MO. Car is same as house. If someone unlawfully enters, you are allowed

under MO law to protect yourself using deadly force, just as if they entered your home.

So it was a legal thing.

This is also why you can carry a gun in your car. It's the same as having a gun in your house.

[L0oniX]

147. Yes ...we all should wait until we are seconds away from dying before using a gun.

Just call 911 and wait for the cops ...works out so well.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Yeah, I guess

You gun guys have won the argument nationally. Anything can now be justified by fear of grievous injury, so more power to you. Congratulations. I just can't help but to find such behavior contemptible. Usually, I'm just glad these discussions go on in the gungeon.

[hack89]

50. Not everyone is into macho feats of physical violence like you are.

I don't want to live in a world where I have no choice but to let people violently assault me. Don't want to get shot - don't threaten my life. Pretty simple.

[SGMRTDARMY]

55. I agree

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Hoyt]

64. Possessing and pulling a gun when you can drive away is also a "macho" action.

Go look at some gun advertisements. They aren't promoting peace, they are promoting carrying a "piece" makes you god -- especially when your state's gun laws encourage you to blast away when other alternatives are readily available.

[SGMRTDARMY]

71. Bullshit

State gun laws DO NOT encourage people to "blast away" when other alternatives exist.
Why do you post this crap when you darn well know better?
It makes you look foolish.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

186. How come the biker didn't ride off?

That sauce is as good for ganders as it is geese.

[alcibiades_mystery]

65. Eh, I can see both positions as having an element of macho swagger to them

So, when I see your position (and that of your partner in arms there) it looks very macho swaggery at the point of execution (no pun): it's this "fuck around, lay around," "if you fuck with me I'll fucking KILL you," or, more eloquently, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" sort of machismo. But it's certainly premised on a deep and fearful sense of vulnerability, which is in some sense the opposite of macho swagger.

My position, on the other hand, can be seen as an attempt to find (or retrieve) some sense of reasonable or proportional response, not having to destroy anything that comes at you. At the same time, you're right that it's premised on a sense of (at least projecting) invulnerability that was the certainly macho "code" I grew up with and that still inflects the way I look at these events.

Both positions have their own macho swagger, it seems to me. And both have their own reasonableness.

[hack89]

68. I do not share your perverted sense of fairness.

My position is "threaten my life at your own peril". I refuse to accept your position that I must endure a potentially deadly criminal assault simply out of some perverted sense of fairness.

[alcibiades_mystery]

114. I don't share the extremely low value you place on human life

Since we're inventing strawmen about each other...

[hack89]

117. My life is more important then the guy trying to kill me.

even you should understand that.

[jp11]

84. That is an excellent way to describe both positions.

[FrodosPet]

127. I'm in the same boat, EXCEPT

A) I would never have a gun in the first place and B) I have accepted the fact that is someone wants to kill me then it is my time to die. I may fight to save an innocent's life, but I could not live with myself if I were to kill another human being, regardless of the circumstances.

[hack89]

131. I have loved ones that depend on me

I will not let a criminal decide when it is my time to die.

[Maraya1969]

141. Why should you gamble that your injuries be minor?

In other words if you are going to hit back you want them dead right? Not just stopped or shown a lesson, dead?

Geeze.

[SGMRTDARMY]

146. In my concealed carry class

we were taught to shoot until the threat is no longer a threat, which is apparently what this elderly man did, he shot one round, and then left to take himself and his family away from immediate danger. He did exactly what he was supposed to do.

[Maraya1969]

148. You could do that with pepper spray. You don't have to kill

someone for crying out loud!

[SGMRTDARMY]

149. Pepper spray doesn't always work

and if someone is trying to do me bodily harm, I would shoot until the threat is stopped, if the perp dies in the process, too fucking bad, shouldn't have attacked me in the first place. I am under no obligation to worry about whether I kill the POS or not.
Afterwards I would feel remorse for taking another human life, but at least I would be alive to feel remorse.

[Maraya1969]

171. Wow I would sit and think about your views on human life if I were you.

You don't seem to give much credence to it. Like throw away paper towels they seem to you. It's sad really.

[SGMRTDARMY]

175. Thats utter bullshit

I wouldn't be throwing away anyones life, the perp that thinks they can get away with attacking me or mine would be throwing away their life. I don't have to justify myself to you or anyone else. Until you've walked in my shoes, you have no call to judge me.
Good nite.

[sarisataka]

177. So if I understand correctly

you would rather be put in the hospital or killed by an assailant rather than use deadly force to defend yourself?

[Clames]

194. I would sit and think about what could happen with a visually impaired driver...

...in a panic situation with a wife and child in the car if I were you. You don't seem to give much credence to how pepper spray works.

[Hoyt]

150. Pepper Spray would have worked. But not "macho" enough for gun culture.

Merely pointing gun would have worked, but carriers are taught to shoot. I'm not sure why exactly, but I have my suspicions.

[SGMRTDARMY]

154. Why Hoyt

pray tell, why are we taught to shoot? Please enlighten us with your almighty wisdom.
The only thing you know is you don't know shit about legal CHL holders as you have demonstrated over and over again.
Your little innuendos of not macho enough for the gun culture really show just how bigoted you really are about a certain segment of the american citizenry.

[sadbear]

158. +1

[sarisataka]

151. If he used pepper spray he likely would not have been able to drive off

Being in a vehicle and that close everyone in the car would likely be mildly to moderately affected.

I would not want to inflict the effects of pepper spray on a child.

[sadbear]

159. I'd rather my child experience a little pepper spray

than have him witness me murder someone. But that's just me.

[sarisataka]

160. You have apparently

never experienced pepper spray.

I would rather my children never see someone assault me so I have to use deadly force to protect myself.

[sadbear]

161. I have and wasn't scarred for life

I can only imagine what watching my father shoot someone in cold blood would have done to me though.

[sarisataka]

163. First time I have heard

shooting someone punching you in the head, shooting in cold blood.

BTW we are talking full on OC pepper spray

When an assailant get sprayed in the face with pepper spray the first thing that he notices is intense pain. Then the other symptoms set in shortly thereafter. They are coughing, choking, nausea, incapacitation, excessive tearing of the eyes to the point of temporary blindness.

It took 45 minutes for it to wear off and what many don't know is it reactivates when exposed to water, like trying to wash it off. It is about 5 days before it is gone completely.

[SGMRTDARMY]

162. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about

it wasn't murder, the idiot didn't die, and even if he did, it still wouldn't be murder, it would be justifiable homocide. Please learn what your talking about.

[sadbear]

164. It takes a trial to figure those things out

But I know better to talk about trials with people like you.

[SGMRTDARMY]

165. And you have no idea how our justice system work

nothing illegal was done, no charges, no trial. But I don't expect people like you to understand that.

[sadbear]

168. I'm the one who doesn't understand our justice system?

You're saying there aren't trials when nothing illegal is done? (nice little regurgitation there, too, I expect nothing less.)

[SGMRTDARMY]

170. Are you really that obtuse?

I said that no charges filed, no trial. The DA determined after an investigation, which included eyewitness accounts, that the shooting was legally justified under MO law. You may not like it, but what you like or don't like means absolutely nothing. That asshole Randall assaulted a senior citizen and he paid the price. Bet he thinks twice before he attacks another senior citizen.

Let me guess, you are of the mind that citizens shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms in public for defense. Have I got you pegged right?

[sadbear]

172. I have nothing against people defending themselves

Last edited Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:23 AM - Edit history (1)

I think that when anyone shoots someone else, they should be prepared to go to court (and, in fact, actually go to court) to justify their actions. If they've not broken the law, they'll be vindicated. So no, you don't have me pegged at all.

**Edited to address semantics**

[SGMRTDARMY]

176. Ok your right

they should be PREPARED to go to court, but if the DA determines, as in this case, that no laws were broken, that in fact the shooter acted within the law, then no charges should be filed.

[Hoyt]

166. Exactly. Right on target.

[hack89]

178. No - I want them incapable of hurting me

most shootings are non-fatal.

I cannot physically defend my self due to various health issues. I don't have too many other options.

[Aerows]

21. I'm a small woman

Mind you, I've had martial arts training, but honestly? If someone is coming to kick my ass, I'm going to defend myself by any means necessary, particularly since I'm not the type to start it. I will finish it, however.

If you are a largish man, I could see your point. Men attacking women, however, is not cool, and rarely ends well for the woman if she doesn't introduce a weapon into the scenario.

[Romulox]

29. I'm mystified by the idea that you have some right to beat up a 65 y.o. man in public.

"These gun folks shoot a guy who's kicking their ass? It's weak."

Save it for "ultimate fighting"--you don't have the right to lay hands on anyone, let alone an elderly man.

[SGMRTDARMY]

36. A blow to the head can kill you

and the shooter was a elderly man. Was the punchee supposed to wait until he was almost unconcious? Myself, I probably would have just drove away and found the nearest police officer, but I wasn't there, I don't know the details so I'll defer to the DA's decision, he has the facts.
The idiot should not have gotten off of his motorcycle in the first place and punched the man.

[4th law of robotics]

62. Don't initiate violence

it's that simple.

Punching may not be as severe as shooting but it is still violence. And can very easily lead to severe injury or even death.


Using a gun in self defense isn't about showing off or proving that you're a Real Man. Or at least it shouldn't be. It's about doing whatever is necessary to protect yourself from uncalled for aggression.

[JVS]

77. Where do you get the idea that it's permissible to go around punching people?

[magical thyme]

85. um, somebody just punched a child rapist to death

He wasn't trying to kill the molester, just trying to get him off his 4 year old stepdaughter. And he's sorry that he accidentally killed his stepdaughter's rapist. It was all over DU and some people were outraged that the vicious attacker wasn't being arrested for defending his 4 year old stepdaughter from a rapist.

Yes, you can punch somebody to death.

And yes, if you start punching somebody, be prepared for the possibility that they just may defend themselves. I for one will NOT be anybody's punching bag ever again. But I'm small, old and not trained to fight, so don't think that I'll even think of punching back.

Why the fuck should I suck it up and be a punching bag for somebody else's rage? I spent my childhood as a punching bag for my mother. My family dumped me because I refused to be her punching bag any longer. I guess it got inconvenient for my father and the rest of them when she started taking her rage out on others.

Sorry if the possibility of being shot to death makes it inconvenient for the rage-aholics and their defenders out there, but too fucking bad. You think it's ok for somebody to go around assaulting whoever and punching them out...then fine. Step up and volunteer for the job. But you have no right to "volunteer" others for it.

[SGMRTDARMY]

89. Well said.

Thank you. I just don't understand those that think we should just take a beating rather than defend ourself.
Well, the hell with that, I 100% support what that driver did.
If Randall had not got off of his bike, walked over to the car and punch the man, who had his wife and grandson in the car, he would not have been shot.

Randall is lucky that he's not being charged with violence to a senior citizen.

[uponit7771]

101. +1

[L0oniX]

142. +1000000

[L0oniX]

134. It's not like TV! 1 hit can kill ...expecially if it knocks someone over to the ground...

where there can be rocks, curbs and other hard objects that can kill. Not everyone is a big mussel bound 180 pound trained fighter. But go on thinking it's ok to hit someone. IMO it is not normal for people to be in fist fights and it's ridiculous to assume or expect others to have that experience.

[SGMRTDARMY]

135. Espicially if the person getting punched

is a senior citizen.

[Dorian Gray]

199. I'm a female

I've never been in a fist fight. I don't own guns. But if a man approached me and started throwing punches at me, and if I had a gun, I'd probably shoot him.

[Johnyawl]

5. The motorcyclist deserved to be shot..

...the motorcyclist first reached into his car and punched him. I would have shot his face off.

[Ikonoklast]

6. The driver of the car almost ran the motoryclist's wife off the road do to careless driving.

Bet you that the old man driving the car has done it more than once before...no wonder he needs to pack a gun.

[hack89]

79. Not according to the prosecutor.

Banas said the intersection is confusing but it appeared the motorcyclists had turned into the wrong lane.

[KansDem]

112. I'm surprised more hasn't been said about the motorcyclist's wife

Having had a motorcycle for a couple years when I was younger, I know about the dangers of being cut off in traffic. We're not talking about a "fender bender" which could happen between two cars. We're talking about grave injuries or even death if the car swerved into the motorcyclist.

I would imagine the motorcyclist husband was thinking that when he approached the driver of the car.

[MadHound]

7. If you deliberately try to drive my wife, friend or myself off the road with your car,

I wouldn't be getting off my motorcycle to deal with you, I'd be shooting you like the rabid dog you are.

There is a small but growing group of people in this state that think it is right and proper for them to harass and endanger anybody on two wheels, whether it is a motorcycle or bicycle. People have been forced into major accidents, driven off the road, had things thrown at them by these idiots, and as in this case, most of the time the cops and prosecutors do little or nothing. If the legal authorities aren't going to do their job, then it falls to the motorcyclist or bicyclist to defend themselves.

[leftyohiolib]

14. sounds like an argument for stand your ground laws.

[MadHound]

19. Sound more like a case for the prosecutor to do his job,

Rather than shirking it because the victim is a big bad motorcyclist who "had it coming".

If you don't want street justice meted out, then real justice needs to get to work.

[bahrbearian]

24. Right On

[leftyohiolib]

27. big bad motorcyclist who "had it coming". WOW the prosecutor said that?

sounds lie he did do his job, you just dont like the verdict. you cant prove intent by a couple of "eyewitnesses" that may or may not have the same attitude as you have about this nor can you walk up to someone who hasnt touched you and lay your hands on him.

[Logical]

123. This idiot DID have it coming. He confronted the driver. And got his dumb ass shot....

because of it.

The macho idea turned out poorly for this fool!

[sarisataka]

86. I do not see where it is claimed

the drive deliberately tried to drive them off the road.

I often travel on two wheels so understand exactly what you mean. In my younger days I may have accidentally kicked out a tail light or two after such an incident.

I would never advocate getting off my ride and approaching the other car. These days, I just call in a report. Hopefully some day laws can be passed than recognize cars/truck 'having some fun' with motorcycles and bike is potentially fatal.

[Logical]

121. Where in the hell do you see "deliberately" in this story. It was a mistake....

And for EVERY driver who is rude to Motorcycles there is some idiot Motorcyclist who lane splits where it is illegal.

[phleshdef]

15. Ugh. Sick of the gun humping cowards. If you are gonna get violent, use your damn fists, like men.

[Meiko]

23. Some of us are no

longer able to engage in fist fights. That being said if you try to harm me and I am unable to escape the situation I will shoot you to defend myself. There won't be any fist fight.

[phleshdef]

26. Then don't be trying to run people off the road.

[SGMRTDARMY]

42. I remember reading the story

I didn't see anything in there about the elderly man purposely trying to run the motorcycle off the road.
Did I miss something?

And If someone bigger and stronger than me is punching me, well then, it sucks to be him when I shoot him to keep from getting beat to a pulp.

You don't like it, tough shit.

[Meiko]

52. I always try to be careful

and courteous to other drivers. Sometimes people get overly upset because of a traffic mishap. No matter how careful you are you are going to piss someone off at some time or another. Hell I've been flipped off doing more than just driving down the road, have no idea what I did. People need to calm down.Of course if you are running people off the road on purpose that's a different matter.

[stevenleser]

81. Yes, living in NYC I rarely drive anymore, but when I lived in Florida this happened a lot

Everyone makes errors or doesnt see someone in their blind spot now and then, etc. The assumption by some other folks is that whatever you 'did' you 'did it on purpose'.

One day while I was still living in Florida, I turned into a shopping mall one day (International mall for those of you familiar with the Tampa Bay area), drove down into the parking lot, parked, and then looked over as a car screeched into another spot nearby and a man angrily got out and confronted me over cutting him off as I entered the mall property.

Since I had no idea this even happened, my first question was, "Are you sure it was me?" I got an angry response in the affirmative. To which I said "Sir, if that happened, I apologize, I didnt even know it happened and never saw your car before just now."

That did not make the situation any better. The person continued to rage at me until I said, "Sir, god bless you and have a nice day" and I turned and walked into the mall. Mind you I am not religious, but I figured that an expression like that would shock the person to their senses a bit.

Like you said, too many people assume that what happens on the road is an intentional act by the other driver(s). Getting into a rage over it or assaulting someone over it is really stupid.

[Spoonman]

69. Preach that horse shit to a woman

who would use a gun to defend herself from a 200lb man intent on raping her.

I have a feeling you will get "both barrels" from her!

Limited thought process is easy fodder!

[L0oniX]

138. +1

[phleshdef]

180. Oh right, because attempting rape is the same thing as a road rage induced squabble.

You get to be king of false equivalancy nonsense for the day.

Preach THAT horse shit to my fucking ass.

[Spoonman]

183. YOUR "horse shit" of "false equivalancy"

I was replying to:

Ugh. Sick of the gun humping cowards. If you are gonna get violent, use your damn fists, like men.

No mention of road rage.

In the future try to keep up.
It might help you avoid looking like, and making comments like a "fucking ass".

There seems to be a lot of unbridled rage on the roads AND DU lately.

[phleshdef]

191. This entire thread is about a road rage incident.

You obviously know how to read, so you must be playing dumb.

[L0oniX]

136. Oh ...so using fists is what a real man does huh?

Not everyone is a mussel bound meat head that resorts to using fists. IMO people who use fists should have some fear that a little scrawny dude will shoot them ...lest they continue to think they can resort to punching people when they fail to control their anger.

[phleshdef]

181. I am a scrawny little dude. I'm 5'9 125 lbs.

And I'm not gonna assume I have to go shoot someone everytime tempers are on the rise. If someone is trying to rob my house or something of that nature, thats one thing. But just being out in public and you get into a squabble with someone over nothing, hell no, I'm not gonna whip out a gun and try to kill them.

Let me restate that another way. I'm not going to HIDE behind a gun like a FUCKING COWARD just because someone punched me.

[SGMRTDARMY]

184. Your choice

However I will carry and I don't give a flying fuck what you think of it.

[phleshdef]

190. You don't have to give a flying fuck. It doesn't change the fact that its cowardice.

[SGMRTDARMY]

192. If thats what makes you sleep better at night

believing that I'm a coward for carrying a concealed weapon, I give you my permission to do so.
Congrats, your my first person on ignore.

[phleshdef]

201. I don't believe carrying a concealed weapon makes someone a coward.

I believe deciding you are going to shoot someone at the drop of a hat just because they get rowdy with you makes you a coward. A person doesn't deserve to die just for hitting someone. They deserve to have their own ass kicked. They deserve to be arrested and charged with assault. They deserve some punishment, yes. They don't deserve to die over it. The decision to take someone's life shouldn't be taken so lightly.

Ignore is also for cowards.

[L0oniX]

187. Nice reframe.

[phleshdef]

189. Is that the best you got? I guess I better back off before you try to shoot me.

[Major Nikon]

197. I wouldn't have rolled my window down in the first place

Seems like an easier solution.

Just sayin'

[ManyShadesOf]

8. Maybe they're both idiots

[Bake]

18. Bingo.

They're both idiots.

Bake

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. +1

[jp11]

54. Absolutely.

[slackmaster]

9. "...the motorcyclist first reached into his car and punched him...."

Details, details.

[MadHound]

10. More details,

The motorist was deliberately trying to run the cyclist wife off the road.

[leftyohiolib]

11. deliberately? the driver wasnt very smart in revealing that

[MadHound]

12. There were witnesses who said it looked like a deliberate action

Which wouldn't surprise me at all. St. Charles county has a history of people messing with anything on two wheels.

[leftyohiolib]

16. so deliberately is just hearsay or opinion

[MadHound]

17. No, actually there are witnesses,

Witnesses that could provide testimony in court.

[leftyohiolib]

20. no witness could state, as a fact, what the intentions of the driver were. there are alot of people

in prison due to falsities provided by "witnesses" ,like people exhonerated b/c dna evidence.

[MicaelS]

32. As lawyers like to frequently state...

Last edited Wed Jun 13, 2012, 01:04 PM - Edit history (1)

"Eyewitnesses don't matter. What does the evidence show?"

Is there evidence, outside eyewitness testimony, that Setchfield ran, or tried to run Randell or his wife off the road?

If not, then Randell was at fault for assaulting Setchfield. Randell is lucky to be alive, and better have learned from this lesson. Don't get off your bike, walk up to someone's car and assault them.

You can huff and puff all you want about what you as a motorcyclist, would do against a motorist, but your 500 pound bike will lose against a 3,000+ pound car or truck every time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Link?

I've never read anything about this being anything other than a silly road rage incident. Deliberate? Are you sure?

[Dr. Strange]

185. Where are you getting this?

The only mention of witnesses I've seen has been "witnesses say Randell punched him."

[Romulox]

30. The proper response is to call the police, then. You don't get to beat people in revenge.

Similarly, "self defense" requires an imminent danger, not one just passed.

[slackmaster]

37. Let's assume for the sake of discussion that it was a deliberate attempt to run the woman off

How does that make punching the driver OK?

[hack89]

76. The prosecutor appears to disagree with you

Banas said the intersection is confusing but it appeared the motorcyclists had turned into the wrong lane.

[L0oniX]

137. According to some meat head morons he should have been man enough to punch the biker back ....pffft

The biker better have learned a lesson along with anyone else who thinks they can meet out supposed justice on their own.

[ManyShadesOf]

22. Right and Wrong in road rage in crazy times?

How to sort that out? There's plenty of blame to go around and we might recall, we didn't always live in times when people committed violence on each other on the roads!! Like it was a thing to do.

I blame Starbucks.

(And I HATE those vehicles that have no muffler and PHYSICALLY ASSAULT with INTENTION everyone they drive by).

[ileus]

25. Sounds like a toss up....all the more reason to be humble

I've made mistakes while driving and have admitted with hand signs and words it was my fault to other drivers. I've also given 1000's of passes where I just keep on going after someone does something stupid. I don't even blow the horn or look at people odd anymore it's useless to do so. Forgive and forget is my motto...

Of course if I saw someone approaching my window I'd already have my firearm drawn assuming the worst. Safety first I always say.

[Javaman]

28. The motorcyclist is angry because he brought fists to a gun fight. nt

[belcffub]

33. looks like the guy in the car was in the right

The incident happened the afternoon of May 26 at the Bryan Road exit at Interstate 70. Randell and his his wife were riding separate Harley-Davidson motorcycles, and Setchfield was driving with his wife and 9-year-old grandson and a dog in a Mazda 6 sedan. Each thought the other had cut them off.

Banas said the intersection is confusing but it appeared the motorcyclists had turned into the wrong lane.

Setchfield yelled at the motorcyclists, and he and Randell began arguing.

I'm not one to yell at anyone on the road... everyone messes up and no one is perfect... but when you are in your car and someone reaches in a punches you you have the right to defend yourself... this case seems pretty clear and clean cut...

The police investigated and to them it looks like the driver did nothing wrong... so he did not try and run the motorcyclists off the road. I'm a long time biker myself as is my 1%er old man on his full dresser HD and my mom... tend to take the bikers side... but I have seen plenty of bikers cut people off and do stupid crap...

To everyone who says I should use my fists why should my survival and my ability to provide for my family be depended on my fighting ability... if someone assaults you use every tool you have to stop the assault... fights aren't fair...

[treestar]

34. I don't like the idea of not bringing charges at all

If the guy was in the right to shoot the motorcyclist, it can be determined in court. Like with Zimmerman, I don't like the cops and prosecutors deciding that on their own. It's a negative sort of situation - granted they can choose when to prosecute. But someone who used a gun should at least be subject to some type of hearing or societal judgment.

[Hoyt]

41. Exactly.

[SGMRTDARMY]

47. Bullshit

Why should the DA bring charges when it is a clear case of self defense? A trial could bankrupt someone what with having to hire an attorney and all. That just doesn't make any sense at all.

The police and DA looked at all the facts and determined it was in self defense so no charges should be filed.

If the idiot hadn't got off his bike and assaulted the driver, none of this would have happened.
End of story.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. I'm leaning in that direction myself

The biker had other choices besides assaulting the driver.

[treestar]

110. Whether it is clear or not

is a very iffy question - some will think a case is clear where others don't. He did shoot someone.

If it is just fisticuffs, maybe, but it's not that clear all the time. No case is that clear. Look at the results of some of the more well known cases - Rodney King, for example. Suppose the prosecutor simply decided that was a clear case of which the police officers should have been acquitted? And that didn't even involve guns, unless I remember wrong.

Same with Zimmerman - that's what happened, at least at first. Do you really trust the cops/DAs with their "clear cases?"

[SGMRTDARMY]

118. Fair question

No I don't always trust the cops or DA's, but according to all accounts, and eyewitness accounts, Randall seemed to be in the wrong, he got off of his bike, he walked up to the car, got into an argument and then punched an elderly man, who had his wife and 9yo grandson in his car with him. Given all that, and unless different facts come out, IMHO, it was a legitimate case of self defense.

Bottom line, Randall should not have got off his bike, walked over to the car and punched the driver.
Randall is very lucky he's not being charged with violence to a senior citizen.

[treestar]

179. It will be interesting if Randall tries to file a civil suit

At that point, a court and jury would at least decide, though it would be on the civil burden of proof.

[SGMRTDARMY]

182. I don't think he can

From what I read of the law, if the shooting is ruled justified, he, Randall, cannot seek civil litigation.

[treestar]

193. That sounds like the Fla. law

What state is this, and is it the same?

[SGMRTDARMY]

195. This is MO

and in the article referenced on the OP it says the law protects people justified in using deadly force from civil litigation.

[sadbear]

120. The DA should have let a jury decide.

Instead, he's appointed himself judge and jury.

[SGMRTDARMY]

122. What bullshit

There was plenty of evidence that it was a legitimate case of self defense. Randall was the agressor, Randall assaulted the elderly man.
And now this idiot Randall is complaining about charges not being filed when he is the one that initiated the road rage?

Randall is lucky he's not being charged with violence on a senior citizen.
All the DA did was follow state law, and if he had filed charges, any competent judge would have laughed him out of court.

[sadbear]

124. What do you have against juries?

Certainly there's nothing wrong with a jury deciding instead of one man. Let the process work. I don't know which side you are on the Trayvon Martin case, but I wanted a jury to decide that one, too. That's what we should all be entitled to.

[SGMRTDARMY]

125. What part of no law was broken?

No law broken, no charges filed. Why do you want to embarrass a DA? If he had done what you want him to do, any 1st year defense atty. would have the charges thrown and the DA would be standing there with egg on his face. The law in MO is very clear and the DA knew it. The elderly man was in fear of his life and he lawfully defended himself.
The only one who should have been charged is Randall for violence on a senior citizen.

The Trayvon/Zimmerman case is nothing like this case. The driver did not leave his car and approach Randall, it was the other way around. It was Randall who initiated the violence and the driver lawfully defended himself.

[sadbear]

126. "The elderly man was in fear of his life..."

That's all it takes to get off in Missouri? I mean, after all, that's not a subjective statement or anything. I believe that was Zimmerman's defense, too.

[SGMRTDARMY]

128. No its not

there were plenty of eyewitness accounts of Randall being the aggressor. Have you even read the article yet? Again, what part of no law was broken so no charges were filed don't you understand. How can you have a trial if no laws were violated?
Randall fucked up and paid the price, if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

[sadbear]

129. "How can you have a trial if no laws were violated?"

Isn't that what trials are for? To determine if any laws were violated? Or do we just have trials after laws are broken and then let juries decide if the violation was serious enough to punish the offender?

[SGMRTDARMY]

130. The police and DA both determined, after an investigation with plenty of

eyewitness accounts, that no laws were broken, the shooting was justified, it never would have made it to trial, a judge would have thrown out the charges, and I'm sure that the DA took that into account.
If you can't figure that out yet, then we are done here.
The bottom line is that if Randall hadn't gotten off his bike and walked over to the car and punched the driver, he wouldn't have been shot and under MO law, That is a clear cut case of self defense and there were plenty of eyewitnesses who corroborate the facts.
So why should charges be filed if there is ZERO evidence of any laws being violated?

[sadbear]

132. I hope no one shoots you...

Well, unless the DA and police say no law had been broken. It would be different then.

[SGMRTDARMY]

133. I hope not either

but I do carry where ever I go and I will at least have a chance to defend myself, but I practice situational awareness so I pretty much know whats happening around me and I will, if possible, remove myself from potential danger, but if I'm not able to, I will defend myself with lethal force if I have to.
The state I live in is very 2A friendly and trusts its citizens to carry concealed or open carry.

[hack89]

80. It happens all the time - that's why they write laws in the first place

and why prosecutors have to apply them in deciding if a crime has been committed.

[justiceischeap]

48. My parents live in this county

So, if I go to Missouri, provoke someone to punch me and then I shoot them, I'm all good.

[SGMRTDARMY]

51. No your not all good

you can't provoke a fight and then claim self defense if you shoot them.
But what the hell, give it a try and then tell us how well it went from prison.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

58. Provoke them how? By sitting in the car with your wife and grandson?

I hate to say it. I take the side of the shooter here.

I would have driven off. But I find it REALLY hard to feel sorry for a guy who reaches in and hits a sitting person.

[SGMRTDARMY]

61. Especially an elderly person

He's lucky he's not being charged with violence against a senior citizen.

[Hoyt]

66. Laying a gun on your lap and shooting someone when you can drive away, deserves at least trial.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

73. And what actions would be on trial?

Perhaps the biker was merely approaching the vehicle to discuss any vents with the driver... was the impending physical assault obvious and imminent to the degree that it would trigger a retreat? Lots of people exchange heated words without throwing punches.

If there is no legal duty to retreat, then there is no crime.
There is certainly no duty to inform somebody assaulting you that you are armed.
If the motorist was being physically assaulted, then he has a right to defend himself.

Just what do you think he should be on trial for Hoyt? What laws were broken? C'mon Hilsman, you've been to law school... what precisely would be on trial. Clearly, the PD and friggin' DA don't feel they can win a case against the driver. Surely you can cite their erroneous nature of their conclusion.

[Hoyt]

74. That's the problem 1/10, law allows one with a gun to shoot people when they could have left.

When someone shoots an unarmed person in a case like this, they should have to face prosecution. Unfortunately, the right wing front group (NRA) has pushed laws through that protect folks like the shooter, and encourage other people to become a gun wielding bully.

He should have driven off, and he would have if not carrying a gun. Plus, he should not have left the scene of the shooting.

[SGMRTDARMY]

83. Your really flailing here Hoyt

How did he know that Randall wasn't armed? How did he know that Randall's wife wasn't armed? Was he supposed to stay there after being assaulted by someone bigger and stronger than him who he had just shot in self defense? He was supposed to stay there and possiby face imminent danger from Randall's wife who might have been armed? He was supposed to sit there and further put his wife and grandson in possible imminent danger? He chose to remove himself and family from immediate danger, drove them home, and then drove to the nearest police station and turned himself in which was, by all accounts, the correct thing to do.

Hoyt my friend, you make this way too easy.

[Hoyt]

87. Oh, so now you can shoot an unarmed man and say you didn't know if he were armed?

The guy could have driven off (in fact, I bet he wouldn't have stopped without his gun to comfort hime), he could have rolled up his windows, he could have done a lot of things besides shooting a man in the chest. Instead, he decided to shoot a man over something that was over.

That's the problem with guns and right wing gun laws, they turn folks who would normally shoot a "bird" into a gun wielding bullies.

Finally, we are not talking about someone who enters a person's house, or had even gotten in the car.

[SGMRTDARMY]

92. Once again Hoyt

How did he know he was unarmed? How did he know Randall's wife was unarmed? How did he know it was over?
And for your comfort, I feel quite comfortable carrying my gun in my car, on my person, whereever the law says I can. You were not there, you can condemn all you want, doesn't matter, the police and DA determined he was wholly justified in shooting Randall and apparently justified in leaving the scene to get him and his family out of danger.
It all comes down to this, If Randall had not got off his bike, approached the car and then punched the driver, none of this would have happened, Randall is lucky he's not being charged with violence on a senior citizen.

[Kaleva]

91. The motorcyclist could have driven off too.

[Hoyt]

96. And he should have, but that doesn't give a man with a gun the right to shoot an unarmed person

except under these stupid right wing, NRA backed, laws.

[Cave_Johnson]

98. Stick around until he gets so tired from punching that he collapses in exhaustion?

Helpful hint... Don't physically attack people and the odds of repercussions drop drastically...

[Hoyt]

104. And don't shoot unarmed people who may have "punched" once (and that is in question).

But the "cave"man mentality seems common among those who carry guns in public, and right wing groups such as the NRA who lobby for laws that protect this guy, and the Zimmermans of the world.

[SGMRTDARMY]

106. So your true colors finally come out , eh, Hoyt?

You think of us as "cave" men? Thank you for finally revealing who and what your really are.
You have consistently misreprestented what happened, slandered the victim, ie, the elderly man who was assaulted, slandered us legal CHL holders, refused to listen to reason.

I would alert this offensive comment by you, but I don't alert, because I want all to know what a bigot you are towards gun owners.

[Cave_Johnson]

111. How many times should I get beaten before I am allowed to defend myself?

Equal response in force at all times is it?

Punch for a punch?

Knife for a knife?

Can I shoot a guy who stabs me?

Don't attack me and you won't get shot in the chest... easy peasy...

[Hoyt]

115. In this situation roll up windows, mash the accelerator and leave.

Also learn something about self-defense without a gun and quit going through life believing you are defenseless prey with no way to defend yourself unless you have a gun to back you up.

Anyone see any evidence that the shooter was even hurt as badly as Zimmerman by the alleged punch? I don't.

Further, I do not believe someone can punch very hard through a car window. The coward should have driven off. And, if he had not put the gun on his lap as intimidation, this would not have happened.

[Cave_Johnson]

116. You got one thing right...

If he hadn't had the gun it would have been different.

He would have been beaten more severely and he could have died.

Really? Roll up the window? It's hard to take you serious with a suggestion like that.

My point stands... Don't attack me and mine and bad things won't happen to you. Just that easy...

[SGMRTDARMY]

119. One thing about Hoyt

It doesn't matter what the circumstances are, if you use a gun in self defense outside your home, your either a coward, a cowboy, well, you get my drift. He would rather you get beaten to a pulp or beaten to death rather than have the means to effectively defend yourself. Just go to the gungeon and read some of his outrageous statements.

[L0oniX]

145. The fact that people carry guns scares criminals and big mussel bound fist users ...and

IMO that's a good thing. Too many people think it's ok to hit others. A lot of people need to go to anger management classes and get a grip on acting out.

[L0oniX]

144. The anti gun agenda is obvious ...all over DU.

"cave"man mentality ...please ...so the big dude swinging fists is not using "cave"man mentality? Most DU polls about gun ownership show that about 1/2 of DU members own a gun or 2 ...so it would seem that some people don't mind attacking 1/2 of the DU community. If you've never seen such a DU poll then try setting one up in GD and you will see for yourself. Another thing ...just because a DU member owns a gun doesn't mean they are right wing or an NRA member and some of us are tired of that "calling out" bull shit.

[Hoyt]

152. How big was he? Do you know?

[SGMRTDARMY]

155. Alot bigger than the elderly man

who was, w/o provocation/ assaulted by Randall.
Face it Hoyt, Randall did something stupid and payed the price for it. But you don't really give a shit because as far as you are concerned, a gun was used and to you, thats taboo even if it stopped an attack by an enraged attacker.

[Hoyt]

169. How do you know that? Gun shooter did something immoral.

[Hoyt]

153. Gun ownership is not my concern. Gun toting and this case is.

[SGMRTDARMY]

157. You really are something else

oh well, you just keep on smearing those of us who chose to legally carry and we'll just keep on getting pro gun legislation passed. All your dithering and handwringing is doing nothing to stop or slow down our agenda.
I am so done with your insults to us.

[Hoyt]

167. People will recognize "your agenda" at some point.

[SGMRTDARMY]

174. Ha Ha Ha thats funny Hoyt

I don't try to hide my agenda, everyone here knows that I am for the expansion of pro gun legislation and I do work toward it with writing my senators and congressman, I work to get pro 2A pol. elected which in my state are Dems. I donate money towards these candidates and judging by the direction of the pro 2A laws, we're doing pretty damn good.

Tell me again again how many gun control laws have been passed in the last 5 years? And just what do you do to roll back our gains?
And now we're about to win a huge victory in IL when it goes concealed carry.
But you just keep on bitchin and moaning on an internet site and we'll just keep on winning on the pro 2A front.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

103. Perhaps he did not realize the guy would be assaulting him.

As the driver, I would have assumed the guy just wanted to vent or exchange some words. No reason to drive away or retreat from that - especially if you're at a stop-sign or stop light and it's not clear to drive. Perhaps pulling out into unyielding traffic would cause a serious accident. Maybe the car was boxed in by other traffic.

There are a number of variables to consider before making the kind of judgements your posts appear to be making. Nevertheless, the fact that you cannot seem to come to terms that an older man was in the act of being physically assaulted by a biker 26 years younger when the older guy shot him certianly says alot about your values regarding the right to defend one's personal safety. Why would you advocate that people behaving violently and threateningly should dictate the actoins of others. The grandfater had a right to be there in addition to the right to keep a loaded pistol in his car... why should the ILLEGAL hostile actions of others force someone who is not acting unlawfully to cede their ground.

[Hoyt]

105. Well if that were the assumption, why did driver/shooter pull his gun and place it in his lap first?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

107. I can't say... Personally, I just keep mine in the open between the two front seats.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

67. Poor tactical choice to assault older people.

An older person has been around the block and have their fair share of experiences. Don't mess with older people because they're not into all that macho chest-bumping bare-knuckle brawling. Sure, some may be unarmed and easy targets... but a decent portion of them will just pull out out a gun or knife and end the fight before it starts.

[Hoyt]

75. What do you mean this guy isn't into macho crap -- he carried and pulled a gun first when he could

have driven off. In fact, he did drive off after shooting an unarmed man. Jeeez.

[SGMRTDARMY]

93. Nice job of totally mis-representing the facts there Hoyt

I'm pretty sure everyone here now has your ticket and don't believe a word your saying now, especiallly after you post this.

[Hoyt]

95. What did I misrepresent? Rather than leaving, driver pulled his gun before cyclist got to his car.

The the shooter drove off after shooting an unarmed man. If that is acceptable in this country, we have an issue that needs addressing by people other than the NRA.

[SGMRTDARMY]

99. Apparently your not reading what I have wrote

So, one more time, How did he know that Randall was unarmed? How did he know that Randall's wife didn't have a gun? Should he have stayed and possibly put himself, his wife, and his 9yo grandson in further danger? And yes, it is acceptable in this country to remove your self from further danger, he left, took his wife and grandson home and then drove to the nearest police station and turned himself in, what in the fuck is wrong with that? He's not a criminal, like you alleged in an earlier post. If he was, he never would have turned himself in.
Bringing up the NRA is just a strawman that you are using to try to deflect. Doesn't work, try reading the vast majority of posts here, your in the ridiculously small minority here Hoyt.

One more time, If Randall hadn't got off his bike, and assaulted the elderly man, he wouldn't have been shot.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
If you don't get it by now, your never going to get it.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

100. This is a common misconceptoin I've seen you and many other anti's state...

That people carry a gun to be macho, or they are cowards, or they have small penises, or any of other insinuations that the gun somehow makes them braver.

The truth is quite the opposite. If you ever think you may be assaulted or in a life threatening altercation, I would think that giving yourself every advantage to come out on top alive would be the SMART thing to do... and that has nothing to do with faux bravery or penis size. Sure, you'd also need to learn about the basics of statistics and how rare such an event is, but it rarely has to do with being macho.

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight then your tactics were flawed.

[SGMRTDARMY]

102. Deep down I think he knows that

but his deep disdain and contempt for those of us who legally carry severly clouds his judgement.

[Cave_Johnson]

113. That's the weird part...

I carry not only for myself and my family but also on the off chance that I may be able to assist someone else who is in the process of having their life threatened as well.

Everyone is better off and potentially safer because of folks like us (especially those of us with training and experience) and it still rubs some folks wrong even as they benefit.

Odd...

[rollin74]

60. I agree with the prosecutor's decision not to file charges

If you are going to violently assault someone don't be surprised/upset if you get shot in the process

[Kaleva]

82. I don't feel any sympathy for the 49 year old at all.

[slackmaster]

109. Neither do I, and it just occurred to me that the subject line conveys a simple but obvious irony

A documented road-rager is UPSET about something. It says he was "shot in road rage" which suggests that he was shot by someone who was in a state of road rage, but HE was the one who committed road rage in the first place.

Big surprise there.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

88. He should spit on the DA and punch him n/t

[Evasporque]

90. Coming up #6 on Shocking American Shoot Outs....!

New weekly program....for you TV producers...

[JVS]

108. “But for the grace of God, I would be a dead man,”

Wow, aren't we all fortunate that God chose to intervene in this case. Why this and not fixing global warming, God?

[flvegan]

173. "when any silly driving situation turns into a shooting?"

When your idiot client intentionally commits what would be seen as a felony on my person. As reported, that is.

Can I get my bullet back?

The DU Puritanical Squad (TM) will have a field day with it though, and comment about gun-nuts, the Gungeon and various other apologetic stupidity.

[Blue_Tires]

188. I hate to say it, but Randell should just be thankful he's alive

There were a couple of roadrage incidents when I lived in Atlanta in the 90s that ended in death for a lot less that what he did, (one notable victim got shot after being rear-ended because he jumped out the car and slammed his fist on the other guy's hood) and none of those shooters were even charged

[dsc]

196. we don't have all the details

but from what is there it is hard to fault the prosecutor here. The law is pretty clear in that a person is permitted to use deadly force to counter force. That is what the driver did. The motorcyclist threw the first punch after being the aggressor in the first place by approaching the car. The driver was 16 years older and had both a elderly woman and a child with him.

[sadbear]

200. It may be the law, but I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around that

Losing your cool and hitting someone can lead to an instant, state-sanctioned death sentence. Wow.

[hack89]

202. Hitting someone one can kill or severely injure them.

Especially an elderly man. Real life is not like the movies - a hard blow to the head is very dangerous.

[sadbear]

203. We're talking about someone sitting in their car getting hit by someone standing outside of it.

Plus, the motorcyclist claimed to have only slapped him. And we're not talking about movies. Could you please show me examples of these hard blow deaths and severe injuries because I know fist fights happen all the time, but I've yet to hear of someone dying or even getting severely injured with one punch (or slap.)

(So that lady who slapped Tom Barrett could have been justifiably shot?)

[hack89]

204. Google "one punch kills man" and this is a sample of what you get

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/07/06/20110706las-vegas-casino-beating-death.html

http://www.citypages.com/2011-07-27/news/one-punch-homicide/

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/justice/1259246/Family-of-man-killed-with-one-punch-furious-as-attacker-caged-for-just-14-months-Ricky-Maynard-Lee-Cook.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-17080541

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2077173/England-football-fan-taunted-Welshman-killing-punch-outside-Wembley-Stadium-jailed.html

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/02/new_trial_granted_for_clevelan.html

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/02/10/man-pleads-guilty-in-fatal-08-fight-outside-giants-game/

http://article.wn.com/view/2009/11/19/Teenager_jailed_for_killing_man_with_one_punch/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061741/Kyle-Allen-kills-brother-Sam-Kirk-single-punch-drunken-argument-Derby.html


There are many more.

[Raine]

198. Keep your hands on the handbars or on wrapped around the steering wheel and there

won't be a problem.