Should tats celebrating an antisocial life style be cause to keep you off a police force?

[Stinky The Clown]

There is an allegation about one of the slain DPD officers being a white supremacist. You can read about it elsewhere. I won't link to it. I mention it here merely to establish some baseline context to this post. The allegation about the slain cop started when someone zoomed in on a picture of him and saw a tat of a German cross on one of his fingers, a known symbol of white supremacists. That, so goes the story, led to some googling and to more evidence that the cop was actually associated with white supremacists. Personally I have not seen enough to know if any of this is true. But for the sake of this discussion, let's assume it is.

True enough, such iconography is permitted in our society. But should it be permitted on a policeman?

My own feeling is that a cop who displays ANY such iconography - not just white supremacy - should be ineligible for service. In fact, even if the tat is hidden, if it can be seen in the cop house showers or the gym it is still cause for rejection from the force.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

1. The Rhode Island State Police considers it a strike against you to have any visible tattoos

....for getting hired.....

This is what I've heard.

[maxsolomon]

2. Can you edit your title for clarity?

Add "off"? Thx.

And yes.

[Stinky The Clown]

3. Thanks! and done. Makes MUCH more sense now.

[NightWatcher]

4. It's a free country!

Anyone is free to decorate themselves in any way they like.

So too, police forces (and any other employer) should be free to refuse employment to anyone who expresses themselves where customers might see and take offense to what they say on their bodies.

[lame54]

6. misread post...

i retract my question

[Angel Martin]

5. I don't have tattoos, don't like them etc.

but with 20 somethings they are almost ubiquitous. Even young people at my church getting "Christian tattoos".

So a no tats rule reduces your recruit pool to mormons, and observant jews and muslims

[Squinch]

7. But what about, say, a swastika. I think that should disqualify you.

[Angel Martin]

8. yes, any racist or violent symbolism

should be required to be removed.

And if it still represents the thinking of a potential recruit, he/she should be rejected.

[cosmicone]

66. A swastika is an auspicious symbol for Hindus and Buddhists

Last edited Thu Jul 14, 2016, 06:52 PM - Edit history (1)

It has existed thousands of years before Hitler misused it.

[Hoyt]

102. I doubt anyone with a swastika tattoo is anything other than a racist hater.

Last edited Thu Jul 14, 2016, 07:44 PM - Edit history (1)

[cosmicone]

115. Maybe in the US

but in India, Nepal and SE Asia, a lot of people have swastika tattoos who may not even have heard of Hitler.

The Swastikas are found on all Hindu temples.

Swastik is a Sanskrit compound word formed by "su" and "astik", the former meaning "good" or "well" and "asti" meaning being. The k is added to show that it is a symbol.

Swasti is also a Hindu first name.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. The post isn't about tats. It isn't even about special interest tats. it IS about . . . .

. . . . . . antisocial tats.

A christian cross is an accepted symbol in America.

A star of david is an accepted symbol in America.

So are gordian knots and sailboats and Mom hearts and so many other icons.

But a German cross? Nope.

A swastika? Don't think so.

The ISIS flag? Think again.

[Angel Martin]

14. point taken

"My own feeling is that a cop who displays ANY such iconography - not just white supremacy - should be ineligible for service."

I misread this as any tattoo...

[TipTok]

21. Iron crosses are also a symbol for motorcycle culture...

Obviously there is some overlap but it doesn't automatically put him in the racist camp.

[Igel]

25. I used to own an Iron Cross pendant.

It was enameled blue on some sort of base metal back.

I bought it on our 6th grade field trip to DC. It was one of a bunch an anti-war protester was selling. It wasn't a symbol of racism or white supremacism.

If I still had it, it wouldn't have changed what it stood for at the time. At best, it's meaning would have changed, not because its inherent meaning changed but because the people around it interpreted it a certain way.

I no longer have it because between then and now I disposed of all crosses that I had as pagan symbols. Not because I suddenly woke up and realized that its One True Meaning, even when used in 1000 BC in Africa, was a symbol of white supremacy. If only the pharaohs had known ...

Some white supremacists use that symbol. So do some other groups. Not all were white supremacists. But like "all swastikas must be Nazi symbols," it argues from silence.

[LeftyMom]

31. The cop in question also had a crusader's shield on a tattoo

and a Thor's hammer on his facebook page.

Since there's some significant religious dissonance there, the interpretation of all three as racist symbols seems to be the only likely one.

He was also previously affiliated with another agency where white supremacist gangs on the force and in his particular location were a well documented problem.

[AntiBank]

119. better throw Paula Abdul under the bus for her Iron Cross

28 years ago, btw

[Jim Beard]

9. I am 69 and will never accept tats and not all of the younger ones are getting them.

They were given a beautiful body and people put the ugly die on themselves.

[Vinca]

50. Thank you for saying it! I'll never understand it either.

I suppose some can be called works of art, but the majority are hideous. Why a young woman would want to go through life with "Winnie the Pooh" on her calf is a real mystery.

[DLevine]

97. Why do tattoos bother you? I don't understand. nt

[Mariana]

117. It's a handy excuse to look down on other people.

Tattoos, jewelry, makeup, hair colors and styles, clothing, etc. Some people will grasp at any reason to feel superior, no matter how ridiculous.

[Vinca]

131. Aren't I just allowed to think tattoos are ugly?

[Mariana]

132. Sure, but why bring it up in this thread?

This thread isn't about tattoos in general or whether they are attractive. It's about particular tattoos on a particular group of people.

[Vinca]

133. Because I was responding to a poster who also didn't like them.

If you're so sensitive, you must have an underlying issue with them yourself.

[Vinca]

130. They're ugly. Like a tacky painting on black velvet.

[Act_of_Reparation]

60. I'm 33 and will never accept opinionated cranks.

Last edited Thu Jul 14, 2016, 10:49 AM - Edit history (1)

So there's that.

[Lordquinton]

88. What if you were saying that about other things

like hair, or skin color.

Or what if someone said that about people over 50?

Learn acceptance and tolerance, it's the only thing that will help the world.

[Jim Beard]

91. Those you mentioned are all natural and we have no choice and we accept them.

I repeat NATURAL......tats are not natural. You can do what you whish, I just don't like it and if you decided you don't like.......tough luck.

[Lordquinton]

92. You should learn tolerance

Religion is something we choose,is it OK to fire someone over that? Or abortions, that's a choice.

[skepticscott]

136. Just having a religion, no

But if someone comes into to work preaching their religion and throwing it in people's face all day, yeah, it's OK to fire them over it.

[DLevine]

95. It's just a choice. And, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

People get tats for all kinds of reasons. I don't understand why you find them so unnacceptable, so long as they are not meant to represent hate.

We all die and turn to dust, anyway.

[arcane1]

101. You answered your own question, in your subject line.

What one person finds beautiful, another may find less so. Both are valid.

[DLevine]

104. What I don't understand is the "not accepting" part.

I understand why a person might not get a tattoo. I don't understand "not accepting" those who do.

[arcane1]

110. Ah I see what you mean.

That word could be interpreted in more than one way.

[DLevine]

111. It's not really a big deal, all things considered.

I guess I just tend to take it personally. I have a tattoo. It has profound significance to me, as it represents the loss of a loved one. To each his own, I guess.

[Mariana]

120. Some people will always consider you an inferior human being

because you have a tattoo. You already know that, of course.

[Bucky]

11. It's just ink. Now if he wasn't doing his job or abusing citizens, fire him. But otherwise...

it's just tasteless and inadviseable. I think he should even be encouraged to laser it off.

But on the day he died, I've read nothing but that all the Dallas cops were serving their community and protecting civilians. They died heroes, not because of their opinions, but because of their service.

I don't judge a man by his looks, nor by his skin color, even if it's a color of choice. I judge him by his actions.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. This wasn't about the DPD cops.

[Bucky]

15. Okay, but I think my thoughts could be extrapolated to the larger point

I spoke in generalizations not limited to the Dallas cops. I spoke in favor of tolerating reprehensible speech.

[JanMichael]

13. An exposed tattoo (I will not say "tats" or "baby bump") of vulgarities (FUCK) or hate symbol...

...sure. A Swastika on you butt cheeks? Probably not.

I might even include a Hammer and Sickle tattoo of which I am fond should not be exposed.

[mwrguy]

16. Anything racist, intolerant, or far-right should disqualify

[Stinky The Clown]

17. What about far left?

[mwrguy]

18. The left is inherently tolerant

So no I can't think of a far left tattoo that would be unacceptable.

[Chan790]

51. Knew a guy with a Stalin portrait on his bicep.

He really, really liked Stalin and thought he'd taken the correct approach to advancing communism. Genocide and mass murder to advance the proletariat? Fine by him.

I'd argue that's an unacceptable far-left tattoo.

[Darb]

56. Cool story bro.

Thanks for sharing.

[Chan790]

57. Yup, the best story.

You're very welcome.

[mwrguy]

87. The best president in recent history had Mao on the White House xmas tree

Many winger tears were shed.

[Act_of_Reparation]

94. Yeah, that Mao was a really tolerant guy.

So, which canned response will I hear today? The tales of his murderousness are greatly exaggerated, or all those people he killed really deserved it?

The anticipation is palpable.

[uponit7771]

40. We're angles dammit !!! /sarcasm... I don't see progressives groups tolerant of OVERT and OPEN racis

... racist indicators

[TipTok]

19. The symbols aren't exclusive to white supremacy...

[uponit7771]

41. What about 3 or 4 of them though? tia

[rug]

20. They should get one when they're hired.

[HipChick]

22. Cop was actually associated with white supremacists..

How long would it be before he executed a person of color? Should be cause for rejection


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8007935

[mythology]

26. The article you link to never actually establishes what you're claiming

It has a bunch of insinuations and suggestions and circumstantial evidence, but it also uses utterly unrelated people mixed in as "proof".

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. But using that innuendo as proof

But having an Iron Cross tattoo doesn't actually suggest anything to me. It was used by the nazis, it was used by the U.S. military, it is used by surfers, bikers, headbangers.

Perhaps this guy was secretly a nazi.

[link:|

[HipChick]

29. led to some googling and to more evidence that the cop was actually associated

..actually, there are more links that prove the evidence

[uponit7771]

42. +1, I followed bout every link too... the cross on the right ring finger would be a big tale tell...

... but then the other tats ... I think the cops should be far removed from those symbols.

[Straw Man]

43. All the Googling was only about the images.

led to some googling and to more evidence that the cop was actually associated

Nowhere in the article is there a direct connection between him and any of these groups. It's all about the images and what they supposedly mean. The writer provides this disclaimer:

Is all of that convincing beyond a reasonable doubt, probably not.

In a word, innuendo.

..actually, there are more links that prove the evidence

Could you provide them so that we can judge for ourselves?

The Iron Cross has been a German military symbol since the mid-nineteenth century, and still is:



The association with biker culture goes back to the hot rod culture of the '60s, with Ed "Big Daddy" Roth and his "Rat Fink" custom cars and bikes:






I know a lot of people who have some pretty crazy tattoos that date from crazy periods in their lives. I wouldn't presume to judge them based on what's inked on their skin. Unless it's a swastika or a burning cross, I'm not going to jump to the accusation of racism.

[LeftyMom]

44. Okay, so that's one image.

Keeping in mind that the Thor's hammer and the crusader shield represent different religions, care to tell the class how those aren't racist?

Or is it less likely that a guy who doesn't appear to have been into bike culture, Astaru or medieval Christianity just maybe tattooed himself with two images frequently used by racists and put a third on his facebook page (where he also 'liked' Trump) because he was in fact a racist? Occam's razor suggests the latter.

Cops are trained to identify racist images and gang tattoos so he knew exactly what those images implied, particularly in combination?

But, y'know, he used to serve with a scandal-plagued LA precinct run by a white supremacist cop gang called "The Vikings." So he probably put that Thor's hammer on his Facebook page just because he was really into medieval Scandinavian art.

Sure.

[Straw Man]

46. If it please the (kangaroo) court ...

... in reference to Asatrú, the linked article says "The Southern Poverty Law Center estimates as many as 15 percent of its adherents 'follow an overtly racist version of the theology.'" That leaves 85% who don't.

Keeping in mind that the Thor's hammer and the crusader shield represent different religions, care to tell the class how those aren't racist?

Two different religions? Stop the presses! He must be racist! How else can we explain such iconographic inconsistency?

I know a guy whose arms are covered with Celtic crosses. He's not Irish. He's not even Christian. He just thought they looked cool. He would be shocked to find out that some racist prison gangs use it as their symbol. I'm not going to tell him.

Or is it less likely that a guy who doesn't appear to have been into bike culture, Astaru or medieval Christianity just maybe tattooed himself with two images frequently used by racists and put a third on his facebook page (where he also 'liked' Trump) because he was in fact a racist?

He also "liked" Allen West, Sheriff David Clarke, and the Texas Hippie Coalition band, and there a number of African-American and Latino people on his Friends list.

I'm not going to condemn this man because of a couple of tattooed images. You don't know his life story and you didn't know him. And when all is said and done, what is the point? To stir up a little more cop-hate? To suggest that he deserved to die? What exactly do you hope to achieve?

[LeftyMom]

47. I don't think anybody with a strong whiff of white supremacy about him should be a cop.

I think cops need to screen for that shit better in their hiring process.

I think supervisors who fail to notice obvious racist iconography all over their staff should be investigated and disciplined.

I think people who fall all over themselves making weak excuses for obvious racists should be banned from DU.

That's about it. Thanks for asking.

[Straw Man]

73. What's "a strong whiff"?

I don't think anybody with a strong whiff of white supremacy about him should be a cop.

Sounds like McCarthyism to me: suspicion and innuendo.

I think people who fall all over themselves making weak excuses for obvious racists should be banned from DU.

Obvious racists? Show me a direct connection to a racist organization. Then we'll talk.

If you think I should be banned, make your case through channels. That's the way this thing works.

That's about it. Thanks for asking.

You're welcome.

[LanternWaste]

79. Less suspicion and innuendo, and more inference and evidence.

Less suspicion and innuendo, and more inference based on evidence.

It may help to learn the difference, as the two sets of words are wholly different in meaning (regardless of how you may otherwise rationalize the obvious as mere subtle to better validate your narrative).

[Straw Man]

82. Not really, no.

Less suspicion and innuendo, and more inference and evidence.

It may help to learn the difference, as the two sets of words are wholly different in meaning (regardless of how you may otherwise rationalize the obvious as mere subtle to better validate your narrative).

I know the difference. Condemnation based on scant evidence, without proof? Suspicion and innuendo.

What is "mere subtle"? Two adjectives in search of a noun?

[craigmatic]

23. Agreed you wouldn't hire somebody with child molester tats to teach pre-school.

[madinmaryland]

24. FUCK YES, Stinky. I can't believe the shit that I see on "people" here in

SW Ohio. Un-fucking-believeable. Kids here are being taught racism at such an early age.

[trackfan]

27. I'm no big liker of tattoos, but people can change and disavow a tattoo

and not bother to take it off. What about the myriad folks who have, say, "I LOVE SHEILA FOREVER", and then break up with Sheila, and think Sheila is a #@&*^ @#*&^$, but never get rid of the tattoo because it's too much bother.

[LeftyMom]

35. He had images associated with white supremacist groups on his social media when he died.

So no, he didn't have a change of heart and decide not to get his iron cross and crusader shield covered up out of laziness.

[trackfan]

128. I agree that in this case the guy did not have a change of heart.

I was just addressing the hypothetical case in the OP. And, by the way, Go Dodgers!

[LongtimeAZDem]

30. Welcome to the DU version of the Westboro Baptist Church (nt)

[LeftyMom]

36. How are we supposed to treat the grave of a dead racist?

Just curious.

[Straw Man]

45. Curious? OK ...

How are we supposed to treat the grave of a dead racist?

Just curious.

The same way you treat any grave: with respect, which can include simply ignoring it.

Does that really need to be explained? Or are we dancing on graves now?

[adigal]

49. I'm not sure if this officer was racist or not

But following your logic, we should just respect the graves of Nazis, KKK members and others who actively sought to harm people for their religion or color of their skin.

This is why the left is accused of moral weakness. Some things, and people, are just plain evil.

[Straw Man]

70. OK ...

But following your logic, we should just respect the graves of Nazis, KKK members and others who actively sought to harm people for their religion or color of their skin.

What do you suggest? That we desecrate their graves? I'm not speaking metaphorically here -- the question I was responding to was quite literal.

This is why the left is accused of moral weakness. Some things, and people, are just plain evil.

Yes, some people are. There is nothing but innuendo to suggest that this man was one of them.

[Stinky The Clown]

63. Excuse me. Where, exactly, did I disrespect the cop in Dallas?

I specifically said there was not enough evidence for me to draw a conclusion. I made this post with the question as an abstract.

[LeftyMom]

32. Cops ALL know what those tattoos mean. It's part of their training and has been for a long time.

When people are arrested part of the booking process is to take pictures of all of their tattoos and use them to document their criminal affiliations. Since the symbols that guy wore are frequently associated with white supremacist prison gangs he knew perfectly well what they meant and so did every other cop who saw them on him.

He didn't get them in ignorance and his coworkers and supervisors weren't ignorant of his affiliations.

[VOX]

108. ^^^^THIS ^^^^^

Absolutely correct, LeftyMom. LEOs are aware of (and commit to memory, if they're doing their job) vast photo documentation records of the tattoo iconography used by gangs and cartels, inmates, etc. it's part of the language of the street. Google "gang tattoos" and any number of police and LEO-related sites have a wealth of information on the subject.

The very nature of their jobs dictates that LEOs must *not* be uninformed or naive on this. They know all about it, so ignorance as an excuse simply doesn't fly.

[LeftyMom]

112. My dad was a prison cook. He was trained and re-trained on this regularly.

LEOs get a hell of a lot more training than the guy doing the paperwork to make sure they ordered enough green beans this week.

There's no excuse. They all knew.

[cherokeeprogressive]

33. I would only ask in response... Do people change?

[flvegan]

34. Define "antisocial" please.

Yes, if you lack any sort of tolerance for another you've sworn to protect, you shouldn't wear that badge.

[LeftyMom]

38. An iron cross on his hand and a crusader shield on his arm.

And a Thor's hammer as his FB banner.

And he'd transferred from LA County Sheriffs where there had been a white supremacist cop gang called The Vikings when and where he was serving. Big scandal, well documented.

[flvegan]

39. That's not the posted question.

I appreciate the specifics and agree, but that's not the posted question.

[Warpy]

37. Depends

Most people regret the bad tats they got when they were 18, drunk, and stupid, whether it's Tinkerbell on the sacrum or a Nazi eagle on the bicep. If it was somebody who always wore clothing to cover the damned thing up because he couldn't afford laser removal at 35, I probably wouldn't think much about it.

That's the problem with them, what you thought was cool and dead clever at 18 becomes an extreme embarrassment by 25.

[Lee-Lee]

48. ACTUAL racist ratios would have eliminated you from and department I worked in

Last edited Thu Jul 14, 2016, 07:20 AM - Edit history (1)

And I mean actual, not some ones that someone with an agenda thinks maybe, possibly could be racist and tries to build a case around.

Part of my job is actually screening and background checks before someone's file goes in for a background check with the Federal Government for a job at our facility, because it saves money and time to screen out ones who won't pass. As part of that I screen social media. The folks screaming racist on this are trying real hard to see what they want to see instead of going in as neutral observers and letting the facts lead them to the truth. When you have a few things that could possibly mean racist that doesn't mean racist- especially such common things as what they found. Now if he was dropping references to "14 words" or using screen names with "88" in them it would be a real indication.

[Bluenorthwest]

52. Gee Stinky when DUers adopted such symbols with obvious intent they said 'but it means

I love the Irish'. So that's how it is now. DU has voted in favor of such symbols.

[mcar]

59. "Obvious intent?"

Please elaborate.

[UtahLib]

69. Shake it off.

Just another ignorant asinine comparison made with obvious intent.

[mcar]

75. No, thank you

I've been maligned over and over again about my avatar - one that is in the DU avatar list provided by admins. I will not shake it off.

[tammywammy]

71. Please elaborate on the "obvious intent".

[Bluenorthwest]

76. It became wildly popular all of a sudden. I'm sure that was all coincidence. Of course.

What else could it have been? Totally innocent.

[Sheepshank]

78. support systems seems to have completely passed you by

while you, and you alone pursue flinging inuendos like it was monkey poo

[Hortensis]

80. Imo, this is extremely inappropriate.

The Celtic Cross is an ancient religious and ethnic symbol that in no way by itself indicates white supremacist leanings. Imo, your statements constitute a personal, and very unjustified, attack on a fellow DUer.

[mcar]

83. Thank you Hortensis!

I do not understand why this "issue" keeps coming up here. If it was truly a problem, Skinner would have removed the avatar from the list.

[Hortensis]

84. Which comes first, hostility or excuse to unleash?

[tammywammy]

93. I'm an Irish red head.

My use of the admin approved avatar is 100% innocent. The fact that you want to malign and infer other intent is of your own construct.

[mcar]

96. Irish blonde here

Love my ancestor's home and the beautiful symbols.

[Cha]

98. Erin Go Bragh, mcar~

[mcar]

99. Such a beautiful place

Thank you, Cha!

[Cha]

100. No worries.. your Celtic Cross is Beautiful.. I gave one to me daughter once,

Brigid Erin.

[mcar]

113. Love her name!

Brigid was always a favorite of mine. Alas, I had only boys-- and gave them both Irish names as agreed by my Italian American SO!

I keep telling SO we're moving there when we retire. He's not averse.

[Cha]

123. Hey Aloha, mcar~

Thank you... I really like her name, too. Our son is Timothy O'Brien..

How sweet your Italian American SO agreed!

Here's to your retirement in Ireland some day..

[mcar]

124. Another great name!

I grew up with O'Briens. And Ferguson's, Hanlons, Harringtons, O'Haras, and Shaughnessys.

[MohRokTah]

127. Wiccan/Pagan practicing a Celtic Faery tradition here!

[treestar]

81. The assertion that the Celtic cross

Is a racist symbol is bulkshit as was demonstrated.

[yardwork]

85. Accusing people of being white supremacists because they have the Celtic Cross as an avatar is OTT.

If you believe that the Celtic Cross is a white supremacist symbol, then petition DU administration to remove it as an avatar option.

[Spazito]

86. I love the Celtic Cross, am Irish and find the avatar to be fine...

what "obvious intent" would you attribute to me?

[TwilightZone]

107. Let me suggest that you do some light reading.

Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_cross

There are many other "intents" represented by the cross other than neo-Nazism. Your understanding of its usage is a narrow one, particularly in an international context.

[George II]

109. The Celtic Cross has been around for centuries, not "how it is now".....

...a number of DUers began using that avatar (which has been supplied by the DU administrators going back more than 10 years) as a show of solidarity with a DUer who was falsely and malisciously accused of being "anti-Semitic" because she used it.

Thankfully it appears that the accusing DUer has fled to another site which has evolved into a hate site (you may know what that site is)

For the record, again, the Celtic Cross has existed for centuries as a symbol used by the Catholic Church, specifically the Irish Catholic Church. My church has five or six stained glass windows using the Celtic Cross, several Celtic Crosses on the outside of the church, and inside the church all 14 windows (7 on each side) are adorned with plaster Celtic Crosses - almost 20 of them.

DU has NOT "voted in favor of such symbols", rather DU has SUPPLIED the symbol in their "Religion" avatar library.

Here's a photograph of my church - note the shape of some of the windows AND the Cross at the top of the steeple!!!

NOW can we stop this ridiculous attack on the Celtic Cross and DUers who choose to use it?

[mcar]

114. Thank you George

I so appreciate the support of my DU friends. This ongoing attack is just odd, don't you think?

[cosmicone]

121. Of all the things in the world to whine about

some focus on a traditional religious symbol in existence for millennia.

[cosmicone]

116. Here is a stained glass winow from an Irish church

[George II]

118. "Obvious intent"

[mcar]

122. That is just stunning!

I actually have a small Waterford crystal Celtic Cross that SO gave me for our 25th. I love it dearly.
This window has it all over that.

Thanks, cosmicone!

[MohRokTah]

126. You need to educate yourself about the Celtic Cross

Skinner puts that avatar on this site because it is NOT the version used by white supremacists according to the ADL. The Celtic Cross used by Neo-Nazis is very stylized and is NOT the one used as an avatar on DU:

http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/hate-on-display/c/celtic-cross.html

The Celtic Cross, as typically depicted, is a traditional Christian symbol used for religious purposes as well as to symbolize concepts like Irish pride. As such, it is a very common symbol and primarily used by non-extremists. Most renditions of the traditional Celtic Cross feature an elongated vertical axis (often accompanied by Celtic knotwork) that resembles that of other Christian crosses. Although white supremacists will occasionally use this version of the Celtic Cross, the overwhelming use of this version of the Celtic Cross is non-extremist and, in the absence of other hate symbols, does not denote white supremacy or racism.

[Straw Man]

74. Exactly.

From a hiring position, if I had an applicant with such tattoos for a LE position...even if they disavowed them and called them "a mistake of their youth" I'd be following-up and looking into that as a concern at more than a basic level.

That's how it should be done. Follow up and determine his actual beliefs.

[Hoyt]

105. Yes, white wing tattoos, actions, memberships, friends, flags, etc., should all be reason for review

[Captain Stern]

54. For the most part, yes.

Any tatoo that a police officer has that implies that he favors one group of citizens over others, should disqualify him or her from service. Police should be serving all citizens equally.

[gollygee]

55. Tats celebrating white supremacy should

I'm not sure why your worded it as "anti-social life." If you have a tattoo saying you like to be alone a lot, that should not keep you from becoming a police officer. But that's not what was going on here.

[MohRokTah]

58. Tats that are visible when you wear a short sleeve shirt was reason to keep you out of the army.

At least it was for years and years.

I see no problem with certain iconography being cause to keep somebody out of the police force.

[Act_of_Reparation]

61. The Iron Cross isn't strictly a white supremacist symbol, you know.

It was the emblem of the Prussian army, and has been used a symbol of bravery for more than 200 years. The German military still uses it.



Plus, it looks fuckin metal. So metalheads and bikers love it.

[seabeyond]

62. Psychological tests to be considered as a police officer. I imagine this would fall under hiring. Nt

[alarimer]

64. Well, it depends on how you define "antisocial"

You seem to be defining it here as racist. But, often, lefty counterculture has been defined as antisocial too. And you are also assuming that tattoos indicate something about the person. Maybe, maybe not.

Certainly if a person is a racist, they shouldn't be a cop. But are tattoos the only indication of this? I don't think so. Lots of people get tattoos that regret it later.

I have more of a problem with so many ex-military in the police. I think they may have a more black and white, us vs. them, attitude which is more problematic than tattoo.

[Stinky The Clown]

65. You're kind of missing the point

The larger issue I was hoping to explore was whether a person displaying iconography offensive to certain groups should be cause for rejection from getting a job as a cop.

I didn't actually intend to say the tat was per se indicative of a person's world view, but rather, how that same tat *could* be seen by citizens with whom the cop could be expected to interact.

[LWolf]

67. I had the same thought as alarimer.

"Anti-social" can be a matter of perspective.

How about tattoos that espouse or symbolize hate...a different kind of hate speech. The swastika is certainly one.

The thing about tattoos, which I keep trying to explain to my 16 yo grandson, is that they are permanent. In his case, I keep asking him to investigate henna as an alternative, at least until his brain finishes developing at age 25.

While I wouldn't want an officer to be limited by impulsive teen age foolishness, we might expect that those in a position of power have demonstrated some kind of restraint and good judgement.

[heaven05]

68. what's the problem?

if tat represents white supremacy ideology and is on that body to remind that individual of their 'rightful place' in society atop the racial totem pole then that individual can be viewed as a racist. Period. Brown skin on a slain unarmed PoC instantly, here and in general media, brings out the words thug, threat and worse. So what's the problem with white supremacists, on police forces, being outed?

[backscatter712]

72. If he's associating with known hate groups, he shouldn't be a cop.

Police forces need to be screening out Klan members, neo-nazis, and members of other white-supremacist and hate groups.

If this cop was a member of such groups, he should have been drummed out.

[Straw Man]

77. Agreed.

If he's associating with known hate groups, he shouldn't be a cop.

Police forces need to be screening out Klan members, neo-nazis, and members of other white-supremacist and hate groups.

If this cop was a member of such groups, he should have been drummed out.

I'm with you 100%. I just haven't seen that case made convincingly, on HuffPo or here.

[LostOne4Ever]

89. Tattoos are completely legal and shouldn't be the basis of hiring or firing anyone.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]If the Tattoo says something offensive the person should be willing to (and should expect) to be told to cover it up when on the job though.

Tattoo your face with something stupid expect to be required to wear a mask and a visor. Got a nasty message on your arm? Expect to wear thick long sleeves and gloves everyday.

If the tattoo doesn't offend others or interfere with you doing your job, then people just need to learn to mind their own business. It is that person's body and they should be able to alter it as they see fit.[/font]

[DrDan]

90. someone getting a tatoo like this is making a statement - and it should be treated

like any other statement whether written or expressed otherwise. This person should be ineligible for police service, military service, or anything similar.

Had this person expressed this sentiment on facebook, there would be no forgiveness.

[obamanut2012]

103. It's no longer allowed for military personnel

Should be the same for LEOs imo.

[JustinL]

106. White supremacist tatoos aren't just "antisocial." They signify a hostility to the 14th Amendment.

[Nevernose]

125. German Crosses have become less racist, more acceptable these days

When I first started teaching, or hell, being a juvenile probation officer before that, German Crosses were almost always a white supremacist symbol. When going through endless gang awareness trainings, we looked as much for white gangs as other racially based gangs.

They've gone on to be less and less associated with racism over the last few years, though. To many younger people they just represent heavy metal music (which, of course, sometimes has its own ties to White Supremacist organization, like "Man o War&quot .

In this case, it seems like maybe he actually DID have white supremacist connections (based on iffy internet sleuthing), but that's not an obvious enough symbol to prove "racist" to me. Now, if it were an 88 or 14 or a swastika, that would be different.

If I USED to be a racist, I'd permanently cover up anything that could be construed as racist. And there really are lots of former racists, skinheads, gangbangers, etc. out there making the world a better place. It's not that hard to get a "cover-up." Hell, there's an entire reality TV show based on the premise. One of the first things former gangbangers do, usually, is pay good money for cover-ups of their gang shit. That's what smart people do.

[Shankapotomus]

129. My personal belief is

anyone who is openly and unapologetically racist should have their citizenship stripped and be required to either formally renounce their racism or make arrangements to leave the country by a certain amount of time or be placed in prison.

People remind me that that is anti-free speech but, when it comes to specifically explicit racism, I don't care.

[GOLGO 13]

134. Yes, it should keep you off the force.

All your bad decisions in life can cost you later on down the road. "White pride" is just racism.