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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsZimmerman 'does not properly respect the law,' judge says in order revoking bond
The judge who revoked George Zimmerman's bond did so after he determined that it was "apparent" that Zimmerman's wife had lied under oath, and clear that Zimmerman "does not properly respect the law."
Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester revoked Zimmerman's bond on June 1, but his written order was filed Monday. In it, Lester lays out his rationale.
The judge sent Zimmerman the man charged with second-degree murder in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin back to jail after prosecutors alleged that Zimmerman and his wife conspired to hide from the court about $135,000 Zimmerman had collected in donations to his website.
The Zimmermans spoke about the money "in code" during recorded jailhouse phone calls, prosecutors said. Then, Shellie Zimmerman told the judge during her husband's bond hearing that the couple was essentially destitute.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-bond-revoked-order-20120612_1_bond-decision-jailhouse-phone-george-zimmerman
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)when the police told him to not follow the "suspect" and did it anyway.
Yes, I'd say Zimmerman doesn't respect the law or the police.
obamanut2012
(26,076 posts)I wish they would charge his wife, too.
juniorbonner
(29 posts)This is prosecution 101. Shellie lied to the court and faces charges regarding providing false statements to the court. But until the statue of limitations runs out, they can wait and use this as leverage against George. Even if he goes to trial and wins on a self defense claim, his wife may go to prison for lying to a judge. This makes a deal more likely.
Shellie now needs her own lawyer and defense fund, since what is in her best interests are no longer aligned with her husband's.
Typical conspiracy rules apply here - what did they know, and when did they know it and the father, brother, and mom are all now at odds with one another. First one to rat out the rest wins immunity. My vote is on the father or brother turning state's evidence first, since they are the likely the "most" intelligent in these matters.
Of course they can all plead the fifth amendment, but this doesn't help Shellie and it also does not preclude the idea that the state may have or acquire more evidence against the father, mother, brother, etc.
The lawyer himself hid the passport for around two weeks. The judge seems predisposed to give him a pass on this, given his tale of "forgetting" that he go the passport in a fed e packet with a check, but the issue is still out there regarding his credibility, culpability and what did he know and when did he know it status.
rocktivity
(44,576 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 1, 2012, 12:24 PM - Edit history (3)
The lawyer himself hid the passport for around two weeks. The judge seems predisposed to give him a pass on..."forgetting" that he got the passport in a Fed Ex packet with a check, but the issue is still out there regarding his credibility...I'll bet the lawyer didn't "forget" to cash Zimmy's check, or take two weeks to do it.
I believe the judge is being more lenient about the passports because he is either far more pissed off about the money, or because he doesn't want it to appear that he's gunning for Zimmerman -- if you'll pardon the expression!
rocktivity
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)Why did the wife tell George that it was in the safety deposit box?
George: "Do you know what? I think my passport is in that bag."
Shellie: "I have one for you in safety deposit box ..."
George: "OK, you hold onto that."
juniorbonner
(29 posts)The Zimmerman's had two passports for George. He had one issued, and lost it in or around 2004. I am not quoting exact dates here. So he applied for another and got it. This makes his old one invalid, and he is supposed to turn it in to the state department.
Then, all this happens. While GZ is in jail he has a recorded conversation with his wife about passport/s. GZ says he thinks his passport is "in that bag" and his wife says she has one "for him" in some kind of safe or safety deposit box. GZ tells her to "hand on to that one" (unclear if they are talking about one or two passports, but they HAVE two whether they know it or not.)
GZ makes bond and the INVALID passport that expires at the end of MAY is turned over to the court. Promises are made to the court that this is his only passport. These promises are no good.
GZ in hiding, communicates with the lawyer and the issue of the pay pal money is somehow brought to the lawyers attention. (according to lawyer, who tells court and the press about this.)
speculation:
Lawyer likely has a conniption fit, and presses GZ to be honest about ANYTHING that will land him back in jail. GZ may admit he "found" his other passport at this time.
known but unknown when:
GZ's conversations with wife are reviewed by prosecution, who checks with state department and discovers there are two passports and the court has the non-valid one
known:
Bond is revoked and passport is at issue. M'OM is notified of the issue on the morning of a hearing scheduled about a different matter, and asks that the matter be postponed when he arrives in court later that same morning. Judge says no, and deals with the matter by ordering GZ back to jail in 48 hours. At this hearing, Judge hears MOM's excuse about having the passport but forgetting to turn the passport in and the judge signals he believes the lawyer is telling the truth.
known:
Mark O'Mara claims to have forgotten he got the passport from his client shortly after George made bond, in a fed ex along with a check for the pay pal money which the lawyer did place into a trust account. He gives the court a time stamp that seems to say he wrote a letter to the court at the time about the passport but forgot to give it to the court.
known:
Mark O'Mara turns in the second passport eventually
Unknown: how much time elapsed between MOM saying he had the passport and turning it in. He seems to claim to have had it for two weeks. I don't know if he turned it into the court AT the hearing or the next day.
known: the whole thing stinks, but for now the judge seems willing to let it pass. Mark O'Mara has zero real proof that he had the valid passport in his possession at the time he got a fed ex from his client. He has only the fed ex receipt, a time stamp he himself produced, and his word as a gentleman.
rocktivity
(44,576 posts)And think of how pleased his pappy the retired judge must feel. I get the feeling that his failure to follow in his father's footsteps is at the root of his problems.
rocktivity
juniorbonner
(29 posts)Did the father know about the hidden money (more than $135K, that's just what can be proven to have been hidden) and the hidden valid passport? Or was he lied to by his own son and daughter-in-law, who let him pony up $10 grand for bond while they had ten times that and more?
Does the father BELIEVE his son's self defense story or did he help frame it? There are so many deliberately exculpatory details inserted it the PROXY versions we have heard that his tale is top heavy with them.
My favorite is that GZ was "returning to(wards) his vehicle," which of course may be true in a geographical sense but if a rat gets to a dead end in a maze and turns back, is it no longer looking for the cheese? It seems obvious that GZ walked to RVC and determined that TM had not gone that way, so he he went back to where he had last looked (when his flashlight was not working, and he was stil on the phone with the operator) and low an behold, he finds TM. Of course why would he wish to return to his vehicle anyway? He had not described it's make, model color or address to the operator and instead had instructed the cops to call him when they arrived.
Then there is the idea that TM sucker punched him to the ground - despite the consensus of witnesses describing a fight that migrated from near the T to "John's" back yard, GZ's father claims TM struck him to the ground where they met and climbed on top of him. Another surrogate, Frank Taaffe points directly to the (wrong) spot on a TV broadcast and claims that GZ was struck to the ground at the same spot where GZ's keychain flashlight, still lit - was found. Too bad it's about 40 feet from the shell casing and body location.
Here is the father on the route and locations GZ took:
Robert Zimmerman:
From where George's vehicle was, uh, there's a sidewalk that goes to the next street over.
Hannity: Okay
RZ: Off of that sidewalk there's another sidewalk that goes between two rows of town homes. It my understanding that Trayvon went between the two rows of townhomes and George was walking down to main sidewalk to see if he could see where Trayvon was going. He continued walking down that side walk to the next street. He wanted an address. All he could see was the back of the townhouse
and he could not see an address so he asked the dispatcher to have the responding unit call him and he could tell them an address. So he walked down to the end of the street, I'm sorry, the end of the sidewalk to get an address. He did not know where Trayvon Martin had gone. As he was walking back to his vehicle there was a sidewalk that goes to his left, and Trayvon came from that area where the sidewalks meet. He asked my son if he had a problem and George said, "no I don't have a problem." Trayvon said, "Well, you do now." He punched him in the face, broke his nose, knocked him to the sidewalk and got on him and started beating him.
source: RZ interview with Sean Hannity of Faux news
Then we have the wonderful verbal death threat given to GZ allegedly. The father again describes something that doesnt pass the smell test, that TM became aware of the gun at some point, and then issued a verbal death threat BEFORE making any attempt to get the gun. Then, after the threat, does he go for the gun? No, he continues to use his hands to attack GZ's head. Does that even make sense? Not to me, but that's how the father describes it. The NYT story by the pulitzer prize winning author with inside sources says the investigators didn't think that sounded right to them, either.
But put yourself for a moment in dad's shoes. This is a man who was a magistrate in Virginia and whose wife worked in the courts as well. He pledged $10k against his house to the bondsman which he has now forfeited. He was PRESENT at the videotaped walk thru with police the next day, and should know what his son said about how it happened and where his son said the altercation took place. Yet he describes a situation that doesn't match the physical evidence and witness statements. He's either in for a penny or in for a pound. Did his own son lie to him about the money and the passport? or did he know, and think it was wise somehow? Did his own son lie to him about how the altercation started, or did he tell him the whole truth and daddy helped shape the false narrative given what they THINK witnesses could have seen or not seen? The father has said he doesn't believe Dee Dee was on the phone at all with TM. One wonders how deeply he is in denial about all of the truth, whatever it is.
The trail of scattered debris strongly suggests the fight migrated on foot over a significant distance, and that means either one followed the other or one CARRIED the other from A to B. And if a jury is to believe somehow that TM moved GZ 40 feet, GZ better have included that story in his statements to police, because the other option is that GZ tried to detain TM somehow, and that is a crime and negates a self-defense story.
So in order to excuse GZ, one has to believe that he lied to his father and told a different, true story to the cops about how TM chased him down from his path back to his truck into john's back yard. And that seems insanely unlikely to me.
WingDinger
(3,690 posts)He is contemptuous of court authority. And so are all the Rethugs, who want to drop smartasses, where they stand.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)Spazito
(50,339 posts)on what went on, the lies, the contempt for the law shown by both Zimmerman and his wife. I suspect the bail hearing on the 29th where the defence will contend that "the failure to disclose these funds was caused by fear, mistrust, and confusion" will not be easily saleable to this Judge and that's a good thing, imo.
Quote cited comes from this article on the Orlando Sentinel site:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-04/news/os-george-zimmerman-motion-bond-hearing-20120604_1_zimmermans-defense-defense-fund-defense-attorneys
juniorbonner
(29 posts)Fear, mistrust and confusion are not valid excuses for lying to a court. I haven't got a clue what the defense will do on the 29th. They don't HAVE to tell GZ to say anything other than, "I plead the fifth" and the others now need their own lawyer and have not been charged with any crime, yet.
MOM did NOT file a motion to request this hearing. He may have "requested" it informally by saying as much to the press, but his defense website posted a reversal saying they were not filing a motion just yet, after earlier saying they would. The judge went on vacation for two weeks - that may have something to do with it but there was more here than meets the eye.
IANAL so I don't know the real difference between filing a motion and requesting a new bond hearing.
Does anyone know what will transpire on the 29th? It's a friday when there usually is not court being held - it could be a long day. How would we know if GZ is compelled to attend or not? I assume he will be there, but making assumptions in this case is foolish. The wife and father and mom all testified by phone at the first hearing. They don't have to be there this time AFAICT, as they are not yet charged with anything.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)Of deception here. His attorney, Mark O'Mara, is also guilty of deception. He said that this fund was under the control of his law firm only to find out later that it was in a Credit Union account controlled by the Zimmerman's. My guess is that the latter was said in a press conference by O'Mara rather than in the bond hearing, otherwise the Judge would have slapped his hands as well. Telling, too, that the son of a Judge is scolded for not properly respecting the law.
juniorbonner
(29 posts)I think MOM claims to have heard about the funds after the bond hearing. It was then that he put funds into a "trust account" which is not the same thing as a "trust" run by a third party - which later happened - so before you make accusations I want to make sure you have all your facts straight.
It seems crazy that he didn't have any idea that GZ had a website. It was public knowledge and pretty big news at the time, but MOM's excuse seems to be ignorance of the whole matter. He was new to the case.
Also however, keep in mind that at issue for the moment is the $135K that the Zimmerman's discussed on the recorded jail calls. The 20K slush fund was also hidden from the court, as was the 5K that was paid to a bondsman and the remainder that was spent in a short time - but the prosecution may or may not have direct evidence about these funds. They gave enough evidence to the court to have GZ's bond revoked and to put Shellie, the wife, at risk for prison time. That's a start, but we don't know if there is more.
I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop - the prosecution is going to want to get more players in this conspiracy on the record before revealing what ELSE they may be able to prove about wrongdoing here. We are still in the "give them enough rope" stage.
IANAL however and don't know who if any may testify on the 29th. They can all take the fifth, that much I do know and each needs his own lawyer at this point.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)His wife needs to be indicted for perjury. The attorney should be questioned about what he knew of the fund. Any criminal defense attorney would have inquired how he is to be paid and will have demanded and received a retainer of at least $25,000 to get started ini a case where the punishment could be life in prison. When and how was that paid?
Rittermeister
(170 posts)Try to read that without shooting blood out of your eyeballs.
juniorbonner
(29 posts)He WAS battered about the head in some manner, that much we have evidence of and probably witness testimony to corroborate.
The question remains however, was he within his rights to shoot the kid? It seems likely he was trying to detain the youth after a short "quarterback scramble" that started up by the T and migrated on foot down to John's back yard. Sadly however there is not a clear witness to this that we know about at present.
There is W-2 who told of a two person foot chase with the people 10-12 feet apart, but she is not consistent with this story in later accounts - but neither was she asked directly about the two people in later accounts. Either she is backing off her story or is unhappy about the prospect of being a star witness based on a glance out the window she took without her contacts in. But her first statements are still her first statements, and what she says she saw proves that GZ was not knocked to the ground with the first blow, as his proxies claim.
The location of the body alone puts serious question to the proxy stories as well - all of the dropped objects are on TM's path to home and none of them are within 30 feet of the path GZ seems to have taken towards his vehicle. At minimum his proxy tale of returning to his vehicle is inoperative. And if he wasn't doing that, what business did he have between the town homes?
Then there is w-4 and w-7, of which we know nothing yet - the prosecution has not released their statements.
Does your mom know there will be a trial and that all the evidence is not yet in the public realm?
Most importantly, we don't know what GZ told the investigators happened that night. All of his statements are still hidden from the public, but seemingly not for much longer.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)he had NO REASON to stalk that teenager
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)That's ridiculous.
tpsbmam
(3,927 posts)George Zimmermans Wife Shellie Zimmerman Arrested for Perjury
The wife of the neighborhood watchman who admitted to the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin has been taken into custody. Shellie Zimmerman, 25, was arrested around 3:30 p.m. Tuesday after officers picked her up from her Seminole County, Florida residence. Zimmerman was booked on a perjury charge in relation to her husbands case. He bond has been set at $1,000.
As previously reported, her husband George was whisked back to jail on June 3 after a judge revoked his bond. Prosecutors provided evidence that Zimmerman, 28, had a secret passport stashed away and lied about his finances. Prosecutors also alleged that he and his wife talked in code on the telephone and tried to downplay money Zimmerman was receiving from a supporter funded Paypal account. Prosecutors believe the couple attempted to hide over $135,000 from the court.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)that would be your first clue