Great Non-Medical Reasons To Legalize Weed

[kpete]

HERE:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/06/non_medical_reasons_to_legalize_weed.php#more

[FrodosPet]

1. Great reason to NOT smoke weed even if legal?

My sad, crumbling life.

Yeah, apparently, I would rather have a qoz of kush than pay my rent.

Pot should be legal, and anyone who smokes for non medical reasons should have a big sign, "I'm an idiot who would rather burn up his money on a buzz than better myself!"

[kpete]

2. FrodosPet

I take it you are a teatotaler
good for you

peace, kpete

[FrodosPet]

4. Unfortunately not

It's something I need to fix quick, before I end up back in the gutter I somehow crawled out of in 2006.

It just seems like it is OK to be an alcoholic, a crack smoker, a junkie, and seek out help. But if you are a stoner, finally coming out of the haze long enough to realize a big reason you are stuck in a rut is because you keep blowing your time, energy, and money on smoke... why, you are attacking the greatest, most perfect, most wonderful magical splendiferous substance on earth!

Any cannabis non-worshippers out there - healing thoughts and energy would be greatly appreciated.

[Romulox]

6. Why would anyone take advice from someone who describes *himself* as "stuck in a rut"?

Your logic hasn't improved with your embrace of the "straight edge" lifestyle, I'm afraid.

[FrodosPet]

8. Because they might want to avoid ending up like me?

Instead of repeating my personal idiocy, perhaps some more intelligent people want to avoid my mistakes?

Maybe they want to see middle age without moobs and a persistent cough? Perhaps they would like to have the energy and motivation to buy clean clothes and find a job helping people, instead of spending 8 hours trying to locate and smoke every last molecule of stale resin in the house?

I'm sorry my inability to continue the Happy Magic Bud dance is causing you so much consternation.

[Romulox]

10. Logic problem: I have *already* avoided ending up like you.

No moobs. Cycled 50 miles this weekend. Then took a nice shower in my paid up house.

Why would I take advice from you???

[FrodosPet]

12. Congratulations!

I guess you don't have to. Sounds like you hit the jackpot! Great genes, strong worth ethic, good with money, able to keep your hobbies and desires in perspective.

So does everyone else (besides me) who smokes pot have a wonderful life of health and prosperity?

[Romulox]

17. You miss my point. Moobs come from poor diet and lack of exercise. Now that you're "clean",

YOU STILL have to exercise if you want to be thin.

No more magical thinking, "FrodosPet"!

[phleshdef]

29. Yes. There are plenty of people who use marijuana responsibly.

The problem isn't the marijuana. The problem is you.

[madokie]

32. I smoked for 42 years while holding down a job

building for my future so now that I'm disabled, not due to pot smoking btw, I'm not in dire straits. No bills except for utilities. Just upgraded our pool to a saltwater pool and fixing to jump in it here soon as I finish eating and give it a good vacuuming. If the weather is permissible we're taking our paid for boat our this weekend for some boating, maybe a little skiing and tubing.
There is responsible people and there is irresponsible people, which do you consider yourself tells a lot of who you are.
Peace and have another toke. its not the smoke that causes the problem, its the person who takes it that does.

[Ganja Ninja]

50. Perhaps if you had been able to by pot at reasonable prices you wouldn't have blown all your money.

And did you ever stop to think about all the people that didn't smoke pot, worked their asses off and have watched it all blow up in their faces over the last 10 years?

My boss is a case in point. I don't know anyone that works harder, 80 hours a week at least. His business once employed 80 or more people. Now it's down to under 20. The man is a maniac and yet over the last 2 years I've watched his business of 25 years fade. His truck was repossessed. His spare truck died, his Wife's car repossessed and he's stopped making payments on his business building. On top of all that both he and his wife have been in the hospital twice in the past year.

Believe it or not pot had nothing to do with any of it.

[lame54]

22. Maybe this will help

[Romulox]

3. Where do these authoritarians come from, and why are they attracted to DU???

Pot should be legal, and anyone who smokes for non medical reasons should have a big sign, "I'm an idiot who would rather burn up his money on a buzz than better myself!"

Why is this sort of hate a daily occurrence here at DU? There is no science here. No reason. No logic.

Just mindless hate. Day in and day out.

[FrodosPet]

5. I come from looking at an eviction notice

And realizing that I have run out of other things to blame for my sorry-ass situation, so I need to look in the mirror.

OMG what a sad sight.

[Romulox]

7. Well, my mortgage is paid. Perhaps there's *something else* going on here.

Nothing like an old rummy approaching a 5 star restaurant and demanding that the patrons stop sipping champagne, lest they suffer the same fate as he...

[FrodosPet]

9. OK. Sorry. YOU can maintain, so EVERYONE can maintain!

Marijuana is magical and perfect, and NEVER causes anyone problems.

If a stoner has issues, it must be something besides the fact that pot lets you hide from your problems instead of facing them.

[Romulox]

11. Just like *you* can't, so you want to punish everyone else.

"If a stoner has issues, it must be something besides the fact that pot lets you hide from your problems instead of facing them."

Even tea-totalers have to work on themselves, daily, my friend.

Magical thinking and addiction are surely linked. That means that your idea that quitting smoking pot will solve all your problems is part of the problem in the first place.

By all means, get YOUR OWN life together. Stay the fuck outta mine.

[kpete]

13. FrodosPet

If you think pot was a problem for you,
i can respect that

and, yes, I have known people that simply do not like the herb.

i applaud your efforts to be "clean"
it is not easy
and if you think it has been a good choice
and that your life has improved
then,
BRAVO!

peace, kpete

[FrodosPet]

15. Thank you.

Sometimes, the image in the mirror is the scariest thing in the house.

[riderinthestorm]

16. I'm convinced there are folks who just can't do it, like alcoholics

or those who get hooked on Vicodin.

My daughter's 6 months sober but after attending substance abuse counseling and hearing these folks, I'm convinced that there are just some people who shouldn't ever start.

[Romulox]

18. Vicodin is an opiate--narcotic opioid alkaloids found as natural products in the opium poppy plant

It is *categorically* different from marijuana in that opiates are physiologically addictive (that means addicts suffer physical withdrawl when discontinuing use of the drug) , whereas science has conclusively proven marijuana is not.

[FrodosPet]

19. This is true. You aren't physically addicted.

But when you are out of smoke, the biggest thing on your mind is, "Where can I get some more smoke?"

I suppose legalization, massive price reduction, and widespread availability might handle that problem.

[Romulox]

23. Marijuana doesn't give you ESP. You talk about what is on *your* mind; you don't know me. nt

[riderinthestorm]

20. That's fine. I've just met too many people whose habit has consumed their life

Sorry Romulox, they're out there. I know them - some of them very, very well. FrodosPet may be one of them, I don't know him personally, but he's saying his habit is out of control and its destroying his life. I believe him.

[Romulox]

24. Facts matter. Anybody who lectures on this subject needs to understand the basics. nt

[riderinthestorm]

27. You seem to be the only one lecturing nt

[Romulox]

28. You compared pot smokers to "those who get hooked on Vicodin." It's a basic misunderstanding

of the vastly different nature of the substances.

If you care about the truth of the matter, you would acknowledge this, and move on.

[riderinthestorm]

30. I was making a comparison to other legal substances

that people get into the habit of using and then can't, even as it begins to negatively consume their life.

The OP is about legalizing weed. I was using alcohol and vicodin as examplars of legal substances that we already know and understand have adverse life effects for some people. Would computer gaming or smoking work better for you?

Sorry I wasn't clear about the precise nature of my referencing those two items.

[Romulox]

31. Both the substances you cited have been proven to be physically addictive. Marijuana has not.

It's a fundamental difference, and if you want to discuss this matter honestly, one that can't be swept under the rug.

[riderinthestorm]

33. If you look at my posts, I've never once said its addictive

I've already acknowledged your point about the addiction angle upthread without hesitation. If you were honest, you'd acknowledge THAT. My posts have dealt with my experiences with family and those I've met in substance abuse counseling sessions.

[Romulox]

34. Your debate, it would seem, is with the peer-reviewed science of the matter. nt

[riderinthestorm]

36. Nope. Its not. Any habit that's fucking up your life should be stopped

in my experience. YMMV.

[Romulox]

39. I think one of the main reasons pot is illegal is that it may expand one's vision of a life well

lived.

And that's threatening to many.

If anything other than WORK, WORK, WORK! and then SHOP, SHOP, SHOP! is "wasting one's life", then pot sometimes messes with the gameplan.

[riderinthestorm]

64. You know, I've told my story on DU several times and why I take this position

You won't like it one bit if I recount it here again so I won't since anecdotes aren't "peer reviewed science", but suffice it to say I know whereof I speak.

Its not about mind expansion. Its not about threatening the PTB and its absolutely not about working or shopping. Its about an obviously destructive habit that wrecks a life. Clearly you haven't met anybody whose a loser stoner. I get it. You exist in some world which doesn't include those people.

I do.

The vast majority of MJ users have no problems but some do. That's a fact I know personally. I'm not advocating for the war on drugs fwiw. I've been upfront that criminalizing drug use is destructive and counter-productive. I welcome the news that someone in the Obama cabinet is finally saying it out loud. My husband's a Stage IV, Grade IV lymphoma cancer patient so I know the value of MJ for medicinal purposes intimately.

I KNOW both sides of this fence.

[FrodosPet]

65. Peace and blessings to your husband

My dad died of pancreatic cancer. It is a vicious, merciless ailment. I hope your husband finds relief, and I hope all the assholes blocking medical MJ from people like him can finally have a revelation, or at least get out of positions of power.

[Romulox]

67. Without some kind of *empirical fact* to back it up, it's impossible to put anecdotes like yours in

any context--indeed, I notice you don't make any real attempt to do so.

And yet you still think your anecdotes should influence debate? It's hard to follow your argument.

[FrodosPet]

37. Yes, facts DO matter!

Fact: Marijuana is a mood and perception altering substance. Exact effects depend on the strain and the individual, but include a range of reactions from relaxation to excited paranoia.

Fact: Marijuana USUALLY causes positive physical sensations, and people will desire these positive sensations. There is no negative physical reactions caused by withdrawal - indeed, one's physical state is usually improved in short order - but there is a psychological dependence on recreating these feelings.

This dependence, like ANY dependence - be it a drug like alcohol, cocaine, heroin, or an action like gambling or sex, can be detrimental to some people's lives, by draining finances and interfering with personal relationships and daily activities.

Particularly in this environment, there seems to be a strong push to absolutely deny that marijuana use can ever have harm. I'm not trying to say anyone should be prohibited from choosing to smoke. And I think the continued criminalization of pot is more harmful than its effects on people.

I'm just trying to help other people realize that maybe smoke IS a problem in their own lives, and perhaps they as an individual should be able to seek out help without criticism from those whose agenda is to portray weed as a totally harmless substance.

[Romulox]

40. Your over-riding thesis seems to be that *your* life is a mess. We can't help you here.

You need to turn to local friends, family, or substance abuse professionals.

This is an internet message board, and we are simply not in a position to help you in any meaningful way. Nor will castigating others improve the dire situation you describe here.

Your misfortunes, however, do not and will never trump the peer-reviewed science of this matter.

[Romulox]

68. I sincerely hope my series of responses to you wasn't cruel. However, I will NOT enable "magical

thinking." It is NOT healthy.

[FrodosPet]

70. Well, I am an agnostic non-supernaturalist, so magic is not a thing for me.

I must have mis-worded the "magic" thing. I was pointing out how some people consider ganja as a magic cure all for damn near everything.

I have no delusions that my quitting weed will give me superpowers to fix my problems. My whole point is that MJ made it too easy to accept my situation until it devolved into it's current state, and that's why I personally need to quit.

I sure as hell don't want it kept illegal. I just want a) to be able to accept myself as a non-smoker and b) I want to encourage anyone else who is having problems to consider that, just as some people need to stay out of the bar or the casino, some of us need to NOT smoke.

The cannabis plant should be respected, not worshiped.

[Romulox]

71. "Magical thinking" refers not to religion, but to the cognitive crutches

that addicts are especially prone to. What that means is the tendency to (irrationally) place all the blame for one's problems on a substance, a person, a situation--whatever--regardless of evidence to the contrary.

So, for example, you complain that marijuana has given you "moobs". But that's not true; lack of exercise has resulted in your less than ideal physique.

Moreover, quitting marijuana will not make you more fit: you have to EXERCISE to be fit. But to the "magical thinker", all that is required is Step A, and Step C will magically accrue, without the need to put in the hard work inherent in Step B (the EXERCISE! )

Your posts are rife with these sorts of rationalizations (your relationships, finances, health, "moobs", etc.--all the result of the herb) and the implication that eliminating the herb will sort all these situations for you. That's magical thinking.

That doesn't mean don't quit. It means that the problems will remain.

[FrodosPet]

73. Once upon a time, I could run for MILES

I wasn't in athlete shape, but I could accelerate uphill on a mountain bike. I could move furniture professionally. I had women flirting and going out with me.

Now, I am half a century old, with degenerative disk disease. My L4-L5 looks like a train wreck on the MRIs. I still try to walk when I can, but usually a 2 mile walk results in 3 days bed rest.

Part of why I smoked was for pain, but an honest recollection is that it didn't help the pain, it just helped me accept the pain.

I am avoiding opiates. Unfortunately, that means rotating back and forth between acetaminophen and ibuprofen, which aren't any better. I also do a lot of stretching and self massage. Alas, when you are in crying level pain, and the random spasm twitches are making you do an impersonation of a chihuahua - you're not in the mood for some cardio.

In any case, one of the "magic" things I am hoping is that by reducing the munchies maybe I will have the will and ability to eat healthier foods. As far as pot causing (or at least encouraging) moobs - I am just going by what I was told by an ER doctor a few years ago. I know - I need to fact check better.

[shanti]

44. so don't smoke if it affects you that way, good grief

it's not that hard to figure out. oh, and i do not think you are the norm either. the vast majority of cannabis users don't blame their "issues" on it.

[FrodosPet]

75. Normal?

Normal is an adjective I've RARELY had applied to me in my life!

Almost joined NORML, but I smoked the dues.

[dionysus]

47. booze is legal, should we ban it because some people are drunks?

[FrodosPet]

57. Of course not.

But is it OK to say to a drunk, "Keep on drinking, that's not really the problem?"

[Viva_La_Revolution]

26. stop blaming the pot

it doesn't control you, no matter how much you want to put the blame there.

I go thru an 8th a week myself, but I still work and get my shit done. And food and bills come first. Needs before wants.

[EOTE]

72. So you realize it's yourself that's the problem and not the pot?

Congratulations, now you're thinking a bit more sensibly. Now if you'd only stop attacking the way other people enjoy themselves and continue to focus on yourself.

[riderinthestorm]

14. I'm sorry Frodospet. My nephew could be your twin

I'm not sure he's had one day he hasn't spent completely stoned... 31 years old now, the last job (and girlfriend) he had was as a pizza delivery guy when he was 18, lives at home in his mom's basement.

He has lost his whole life. I know everyone here is going to say weed isn't addictive but you may want to try a substance abuse group to help you kick the habit.

[shanti]

45. some people just have

addictive personalities, and anything will do. don't blame the weed. if it wasn't weed, it'd be something else

[riderinthestorm]

46. For some people though, weed is the problem thing.

If its fucking up their life, they should quit that thing and that's just the way it is for that person.

I'd say the same thing if it were gambling as another example. For a gambler its clear they have an addictive personality BUT its also the gambling. You probably couldn't substitute another vice to make the gambling stop, the habit is gambling.

FWIW, I'm on record on other threads that I think weed should be decriminalized, medical mj is necessary etc etc but I'll say it again for anyone else who thinks I'm somehow "for" the war on drugs. I know though that for some, weed is their bad habit, their problem thing.

[jeff47]

51. The point is if weed did not exist, it would be alcohol

Or any other mood-altering substance.

The people you refer to are trying to escape something, so they alter their mind so they don't have to deal with whatever's bothering them. That's part of why people turn to things like AA: the massive guilt trip gives them something else to obsess over. They need psychological care, not magic thinking that eliminating one specific substance will make it all better.

[riderinthestorm]

55. I've never been to AA. Is it massive guilt tripping?

Remind me to stay away from that shit!

Breaking a habit that's screwing up one's life is hard work no doubt and definitely needs more than magical thinking.

[jeff47]

58. It's all about how you are utterly powerless

in the face of your particular "evil" substance. You terrible, terrible person you. Only turning to Jesus will save you (but they're careful to not explicitly name Jesus).

It's 100% magical thinking and 0% psychological care. That's why it's failure rate is actually quite high.

[dionysus]

48. booze does (more like, can do) the same thing... of course SOME people

who smoke dope are going to let it control their lives and be loser stoners. i know a few.

then again, plenty more people can smoke and not have it negatively impact their lives.

it's more the personality traits of the user than the substance being used.

if we were talking about crystal meth, it'd be one thing, but we're not...

[riderinthestorm]

52. Agreed on all points.

There's a contingent of DUers, and people IRL, who get all riled up if you even whisper that SOME people, whatever small percentage that is, have trouble with it.

You know it. I know it. But I guess if you've never met those people, it seems to be hard for some to acknowledge that (since the vast majority of users have no problems with weed).

[kestrel91316]

35. Funny thing, that. I smoked weed all through college and wound up a veterinarian with my own

practice. If your life is in the shitter, don't blame the weed. Blame your personal inability to behave like an adult.

[FrodosPet]

43. Thats's EXACTLY what I am doing

Weed isn't the problem. Me buying and smoking it is the problem. Along with many other problems. So my theory is, if I quit smoking weed, I will have more time and money and energy and focus to clean up my credit and get a better, less stressful job.

If MJ works for you, no negative effects, your life is awesome, fantastic! But why do you have to trash my attempt to reach out to others like myself, to offer a chance to open our minds to the possibility that our individual lives MIGHT be adversely affected by marijuana consumption?

Is pot more important than people?

[dionysus]

49. you seem to be conflating your issue with other people...

[FrodosPet]

60. OK, I surrender!

For the rest of the world, other than myself, the ONLY problems marijuana causes are a) getting arrested, b) not having access to some delicious food, and c) burning holes in your shirt when you miss a "popcorn" seed.

I'm sorry I ever cast any aspersions towards this most holy and magnificent of the universe's creations. My blasphemy is unforgivable, but I hope you all have it in your hearts to forgive me.

[kestrel91316]

59. I have reason to wonder about the actual truth of your situation.

Just my radar.

Carry on.

[FrodosPet]

61. You caught me!

Never took a hit in my life. Wouldn't recognize it if it kicked me in the groin.

Believe what you need to, or what you want to. I realize the majority opinion is that since most everyone here wants it legalized. Therefore, we cannot consider ANY possibility that being a stoner may be counterproductive to one's situation, that any problems one is having is NEVER related to cannabis use.

I'm just hoping that my own sad, stupid situation helps someone else open their eyes and CHOOSE not to partake. Again, I am not advocating the idiotic prohibition continue. I don't want to come dump your stash in the toilet. I am not telling ANYONE that they HAVE to do anything in particular.

But just because the "drug warriors" lie like a rug gives us no right to! It is what it is...good for seriously sick people, not so good for SOME otherwise healthy people who just want to get baked.

[ThomThom]

77. good luck ... hope you can get it under control

Zen might be helpful
start living in the present moment
the past is done

[FrodosPet]

78. Thank you!

n/t

[ZombieHorde]

38. I am glad you were able to increase your happiness and better yourself. nt

[FrodosPet]

62. I haven't YET

But now that I have finally accepted that I have several issues, with the use of weed being one of them, I can hopefully start working on them.

Yes, filling the vape with some tasty Fukitol helped me feel better about my REAL problems. It helped me tune them out (usually, but not always), but never solved a DAMN one of them.

I lost a chance at a great paying job because I was sure being baked would help me in the interview. I stood up a gorgeous woman because I missed the bus so I could get high. I could go on, but I don't think I need to bother. Besides, I hate mile long posts.

[Egalitarian Thug]

41. Many people can't or shouldn't use and that can be applied to anything, You're not the first

person I've encountered with this issue. You're also not the first person I've met that internalized the blame, but would it make a difference if it was some other substance that you found yourself unable to stay away from?

Do you toke because you are compelled to toke, or do you toke because it allows you to ignore the fact that you are living a life that does not satisfy you?

One of the things that pot does to most people is to change their perspective and that can change priorities. You think of things like, "I am getting up and spending my entire day doing something I don't enjoy for very little money to realize somebody else's dream". And once you've had that thought it makes continuing your routine that much harder, so you smoke to ease the discomfort, which triggers the thinking, which makes it harder, which triggers the desire, which...

I have no ambition when I toke with regularity, I really just don't care to work very hard at something which is of no interest or challenge to me. That's just a fact. So when I'm readying a new project, I stop toking for a week or two in preparation. That gets my brain back into overdrive mode and I can quickly finish the essential planning and prep, assign tasks, prioritize personnel, tools, & supplies, and so on. I collect the check(s) and go back to enjoying my short life until I have start again.

Pot keeps me from going absolutely insane from living in this totally sick and twisted world that I had nothing to do with creating nor any desire to participate in. Does that sound familiar?

[FrodosPet]

63. Both

Q: "Do you toke because you are compelled to toke, or do you toke because it allows you to ignore the fact that you are living a life that does not satisfy you?"

A: Both.

"I have no ambition when I toke with regularity, I really just don't care to work very hard at something which is of no interest or challenge to me. That's just a fact."

I owe the universe a debt of gratitude for being alive and aware of my existence. So when my ambition and ability to do things I may not WANT to do, but which need to be done as a social or personal duty leaves, I consider it a problem.

"One of the things that pot does to most people is to change their perspective and that can change priorities. You think of things like, "I am getting up and spending my entire day doing something I don't enjoy for very little money to realize somebody else's dream". And once you've had that thought it makes continuing your routine that much harder, so you smoke to ease the discomfort, which triggers the thinking, which makes it harder, which triggers the desire, which..."

Being a stoner since the mid seventies, it seems like being straight is an altered perception to me. As far as "I am getting up and spending my entire day doing something I don't enjoy for very little money to realize somebody else's dream" - being stoned never helped me get a better job, it just made it easier to accept the crap job I was in.

[raouldukelives]

42. I am sorry to hear it has been a burden for you.

But it could have been a blessing for many others. There are many addictions in this world. You could have been a addicted to money. Many of those are drawn to Wall St since the rewards are vast and the effort is minimal. Of course, by the end of your standard stockbrokers life all they have really accomplished is increasing speculation and growth in a system that is largely responsible for the environmental state of our world. Leaving this planet that much more polluted and poorer and causing untold future suffering to furry things and kids as the piece de resistance.
I knew quite a few addicted to the US Military. Talk about the capability of messing up someones life. The ones who came back that is.
Wish they had been addicted to weed instead of money over nature, depleted uranium, fancy cars, macho stances, big guns, private jets, huge explosions, derivatives and torturing people.
But I digress. It's a big world out there and you can choose many ways to throw your life away. Out of the myriad, marijuana seems to be one of the least destructive outlets I have encountered in people with my limited experience. At the very least, you can count that your efforts were not directly responsible for massive amounts of misery in anyone's life but your own. That's a good thing.

[frylock]

54. tell it to michael phelps..

you may be a loser, but that doesn't apply to everyone that burns.

[revolution breeze]

56. My daughter's friend

swam competitively several years ago. He raced against Michael Phelps as a freshman in college and was blown away. Whenever he starts talking about his glory days, she always reminds him he was defeated soundly by a stone.

[RadiationTherapy]

21. Must every one of these conversations devolve into statistical outliers?

Yes, there are people who have lost/wasted their lives. Yes, Carl Sagan smoked weed. Is there any possible use to hearing endless anecdotes about the extremes of the spectrum? No. They are mathematically and logically irrelevant in regard to legislation.

[Romulox]

25. Or some self-righteous self-help session, for that matter... nt

[bobthedrummer]

53. I recced this thread old friend. Cannabis is unique-worthy of distinction.

[sorefeet]

66. I grow my own

Outside, no electric bill. So it's no money problem. The sun is free.

[Romulox]

69. "To call sensi a 'drug' is very absurd. It should be known as a natural herb..."

[shanti]

74. what happened to all the replies??

it says there are 73, but i only see 5

on edit: and no, all of the respondees are not being ignored by me!

[mick063]

76. Motivation

When I was a young man, I taught myself basic computer language from a stack of books and wrote a ten thousand line program.

I was stoned through every bit of it.

I doubt I would have completed the project (a worthless.game?), if I started it sober. No profit to be made from it other than finding it to be challenging, stimulating, and satisfying.

Don't categorize me as a stoner with no ambition. Perhaps if you toss your television, I would pay more heed. Entertainment is entertainment.