A Memo to the Tea Partiers:

[kentuck]

(If we were able to have a sensible discussion with the Tea Partiers, could we make any progress?)

Could we just lay down our flags and our arms and talk about the facts ?

Could we stop the yelling and the name-calling long enough to listen to each side's argument?

First of all, any rational person would have to admit that the economy was in the toilet when Barack Obama took office? Indeed, it was the worst downturn since the Great Depression. Also, it is not rational or logical to expect the present budget to be balanced when the present President inherited a deficit of $1.2 trillion dollars to start with, along with a crashing stock market and banking system, with a jobs market losing over 700,000 jobs per month. We were in a deep, deep hole. That is a reality we cannot ignore.

Also, Mitt Romney is proposing taxcuts larger than those of George W Bush. Some estimates are as high as $5 trillion dollars in tax cuts. What will those do to the debt and deficits? Let's be honest with ourselves. We know that will not work. Why should we not question the motives? We have seen the results of Mitt Romney's policies. They are the same as George W Bush's, except worse.

I am willing to admit that Barack Obama could have done a lot of things differently. His healthcare plan and his stimulus could have been much different. But, it may not have passed at all? Not only did he have Republican opposition but he had bi-partisan opposition in some instances.

Now, I am ready to listen to your argument. Let's try to stick to the facts and come to an agreement. Make your best argument. You have the floor.

[Woody Woodpecker]

1. Tea Party's response:

[kentuck]

2. So you're saying...?

They are not intelligent enough to have a discussion?

It's just a waste of time and effort?

[The Magistrate]

4. Pretty Much, Sir

They are not moved by anything reachable by reason. Their expressed views are simply attempts to express racism and varieties of paranoiac delusion in respectable terms. Denial of evident realities is not just the method but the point of their discourse.

[kentuck]

8. Are you saying Sir..?

that it is impossible to communicate with them and there is no room for compromise?

[The Magistrate]

12. Yes, Sir, I Am

They are a problem that will only be solved by demographic change: they will die off, and fewer will match their attitudes and age-in to their views, while younger, urban demographics become more and more dominant numerically over the white, rural and older bloc which hosts these neo-Birchite parasites.

[kentuck]

13. As you know, Sir...

I have long respected your opinions.

[The Magistrate]

17. I Have Known People Like This Ever Since I Was Young, Sir

An uncle, to give just one example, had shelves full of books claiming President Eisenhower was an agent of the Kremlin, that President Roosevelt gave Stalin the atomic bomb, that President Truman only fired MacArthur because he was instructed to do so by his Communist masters, that public schools were engaged in a massive plot to indoctrinate the youth of America with Communist ideas and loyalties, that union leaders were all Communist stooges aiming to cripple America, that psychiatry was a Communist plot by which loyal Americans who understood the full range of Communist subversion and treachery would be rounded up for detention in 'hospitals', that agitation against segregation was a Communist plot to weaken America by forcing miscegenation and thus crippling moral values and diluting the pure Anglo-Saxon stock that was the bed-rock of America. These people do not change; they only die....

[kentuck]

19. Sounds like the John Birch Society, Sir.

I have seen most of those myself. You do not exaggerate.

[The Magistrate]

21. And That is What These People Today Are, Sir: The Same Ideas, Mostly In The Same Words

They are not reachable....

[kentuck]

22. If nothing else, Sir, I hope this thread is informative...

to all those that read it. Thank you for your comments.

[Skidmore]

23. A footnote to your comments, Sir.

The Koch brother's father, Fred Koch, was one of the founding members of the John Birch Society. I do believe you are spot on in the analysis the Tea Party is this century's iteration of that group which found one of its first issues to oppose to be that of civil rights.

[quaker bill]

30. Beyond this my friend

a goodly number are Birchers, and the actual Birchers are funding and running some of the gatherings....

[Bake]

14. Their idea of compromise is we agree with them.

They're not moving.

As Cronkite used to say, that's the way it is.

Bake

[WingDinger]

5. By and large,, tea partiers are ersatz, thru and thru. They play homespun.

They are not. Most have something to lose by being taxed. They want theirs, then, after they are dead, they dont give a shit.

[coalition_unwilling]

3. Like, shaaa, facts are so 20th Century - n/t

[sadbear]

6. "First of all, any rational person would have to admit that the economy was in the toilet..."

And that's when we have to walk away from the table because that's when they prove their irrationality.

[Populist_Prole]

7. They won't argue or discuss in good faith

At least the ones I know. I can't stand being around them. Zealots, and very competitive. They will not give you an inch; will not concede a single part of a single point. If you however, give and inch or throw them a bone, they'll lunge in using that as momentum to turn you their way. They're in it to win it.

[BlueCaliDem]

9. You're assuming TeaBaggers are reasonable people willing to discuss anything

when they're anything but. If they were reasonable, they'd know what fakes they are; they're not a grassroots organization. They're funded by mega corporations out to take this country down. If they were reasonable, they'd know Medicare is government. They don't. If they were reasonable, they'd look past the president's skin color. Studies have shown that the majority are racists and White Supremacists. They are Republicans despite their new label. They're now congregating behind R'money who is everything they say they detest. These are just a few examples why no one would ever have a reasonable discussion with most of these people although, like with everything else, there are exceptions.

[Erose999]

10. You can't negotiate with racists, bigots, and the willfully ignorant. They are unaffected by logic.

The only thing that motivates them is fear of "the other".

[Arkansas Granny]

15. You have hit upon something with "willfully ignorant". They will avoid and even ignore indisputable

facts if they do not coincide with their POV. You cannot use reason and logic with people like that.

[kemah]

11. They have made up their minds, right or wrong and facts do not matter to them.

I live in Ron Pauls district, Hurricane Ike came and the first ones in line for that evil FEMA money were his supporters. The government built a new causeway between Galveston Island and the mainland, they did not complain about government spending. Those old folks are on social security, medicare, and drive around on their motorized wheelchairs paid for by medicare, complaining about government health care and government spending.

Dick Armey makes $500,000 per year as a grass roots organizer for the Koch brothers.

[Flashmann]

16. sensible discussion with the Tea Partiers

Thanks for the much needed first out loud laugh I've had,since Walker bought his recall.....

[kentuck]

18. I'm happy I could produce something productive with this post.

Obviously, there is no room to talk or reason from our side because we see the futility of even trying.

[Populist_Prole]

20. Don't feel too bad

From what I see, their demographics will be their undoing. We'll outlast them.

[Kablooie]

24. Facts are simply not relevant in the tea view of the world.

It's based on faith and faith only.
The only way you could sway them is to give a hugely mesmerizing but empty, propaganda type speech.
And you'd have to sway whole communities at once because much of their prejudices come from simply believing what the neighbors believe.
And you'd have to give it day after day without letup.

Fox and Limbaugh have it all sewn up.

[mnmoderatedem]

25. no. And I am eternally thankful for tea partiers

They are a polarizing force within the right wing. The nuttier they sound, the more fence sitting moderate voters are pushed toward our side. They already cost republicans congressioanl seats they had a good chance of winning by nominating tea parrty nutbags (Christine O'Donnell, Sharon Angle to name a couple) and they GOP race nomination left Romney badly wounded from the attacks within his own party.

All of it plays well in our favor...

[libtodeath]

26. Every last thing they believe about economics has always proven to be wrong

I dont want to have an agreement with them,50% of the country needs to wake up and turn them out of office forever.

[Jim Lane]

27. To the hard core, the economy was in the toilet because Bush was too liberal (!)

If only he had abolished the EPA and a few Cabinet departments, deported a few million undocumented immigrants, and cut taxes even more, everything would've been fine.

Fallback position: I heard that if Obama's re-elected, he's going to confiscate everyone's guns.

[kentuck]

28. Damn!

and they want to cut teachers??

[JoePhilly]

29. Ask them about Citizens United.

The Tea Party folks actually believe that they have a voice. But they do not.

Citizens United will ensure that an elected official would be a moron to spend 10 minutes talking to their constituents. All an elected official needs to do is take the positions of the Super PACs. And then vote how the Super PAC wants.

Why talk to a guy who lives in a trailer when you can spend that same time having a lobbyist tell you what positions to take to ensure "support".

The Tea Party has helped make themselves irrelevant, and they appear to be too stupid to know it.

[lunatica]

31. Talking rationally has to go both ways

And unfortunately people who tend to be teabaggers are not using their minds. They use their emotions, and believe they're thinking because they don't have any real experience actually thinking.

They react emotionally and call it rationality.