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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 05:56 AM Jun 2012

24-Year-Old Gets 3 Life Terms in Prison for Witnessing a Drug Deal: The Ugly Truth of Mandatory Drug

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/155794/24-year-old_gets_3_life_terms_in_prison_for_witnessing_a_drug_deal%3A_the_ugly_truth_of_mandatory_drug_sentencing/

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Clarence Aaron is serving three life terms for a small-time college cocaine deal, another victim of heinous mandatory drug sentencing laws.


This is a simple truth: the United States is the only country in the first world that imposes life sentences to teenagers for small-time, non-violent drug offenses. In fact, the American legal system does so with alarming regularity, spending $40 billion a year to lock up hundreds of thousands of low-level dealers. The practice began when Ronald Reagan declared a "War on Drugs" in 1986, and has spread steadily since then. The following year, Congress enacted its federal mandatory sentencing guidelines, which automatically buried tens of thousands of low-level, non-violent drug offenders in the belly of the beast for decades—even for multiple life terms. Just ask Clarence Aaron, inmate number 05070-003.

At the age of 24, Aaron was sentenced to three life terms for his role in a cocaine deal. That's effectively three times the sentence imposed upon Faisal Shahzad, who tried to set off a car bomb in Times Square in 2010. Aaron was a student and football player at Southern University in Baton Rouge. He'd never been arrested. In 1992, he made the mistake of being present for the sale of nine kilograms of cocaine and the conversion of one kilo of coke to crack. Aaron would have earned $1,500 for introducing the buyer and seller. He never actually touched the drugs.

Though his role was minor, Aaron received the longest sentence of anyone involved in the conspiracy when he refused to cooperate with authorities. His case gained national attention in 1999, when he appeared in "Snitch," a PBS Frontline documentary about prisoners serving long sentences after refusing to turn informant. Since then, a loose, bipartisan coalition of lawmakers and civil rights activists have championed efforts to have President Obama commute his sentence. But it’s now 2012 and Clarence Aaron is still locked up, despite the fact that the Federal Prosecutor’s Office that tried the case and the sentencing judge have supported immediate commutation. US District Court Judge Charles Butler, who sentenced Aaron, recently wrote, "Looking through the prism of hindsight, and considering the many factors argued by the defendant that were not present at the time of his initial sentencing, one can argue that a less harsh sentence might have been more equitable."
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24-Year-Old Gets 3 Life Terms in Prison for Witnessing a Drug Deal: The Ugly Truth of Mandatory Drug (Original Post) xchrom Jun 2012 OP
I'm not saying he wasn't in the wrong BUT this country is Fucked up! Life in Prison for DRUGS AND lookingfortruth Jun 2012 #1
I didn't see why he wouldn't turn snitch to save himself, supposedly, some jail time or jp11 Jun 2012 #2
You do realize Bohunk68 Jun 2012 #5
Almost everyone cooperates with authorities to lessen their sentence. Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #13
The guy who murderd a kid I grew up with got 25 years. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2012 #28
That has nothing to do with this case. Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #40
Yes one was a cold blooded murder and the other was a victimless crime. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2012 #57
Drug dealing isn't a victimless crime. Let's see a link to your supposed "murderer" of a child Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #62
THIS is why I reject "the big tent". I can't find ANY common ground with this sort of thinking. nt Romulox Jun 2012 #29
nor do i wish to find common ground with that line of reasoning.. frylock Jun 2012 #34
You think it's a bad thing to cooperate with the law, when you're caught red handed? Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #41
Why not just execute the kid? It would be far more "compassionate" than caging him like an animal Romulox Jun 2012 #60
Yes, it's sad to think that you're in my tent. Someone who judges w/o the facts. Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #43
I am sitting here wondering why we clash so often when we agree on so much. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #54
It's likely my abrasive personality. :) nt Romulox Jun 2012 #59
LOL! How could a couple of milquetoast's like us be considered abrasive? n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #61
Snitches can also get dead. Quick. Zalatix Jun 2012 #33
That's true. He could end up dead in prison, anyway. You'd be hard pressed Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #42
It's still bullshit posturing... Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #24
You don't know much about the real world, do you? hobbit709 Jun 2012 #7
Snitches get killed - that's why. TBF Jun 2012 #20
I don't see any chance of that... Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #25
This is tantamount to kidnapping in its disregard for the rights of Aaron. Vattel Jun 2012 #3
Our legal system has become completely insane with these outrageous mandatory sentencing guidelines spicegal Jun 2012 #4
No - it's not about justice. TBF Jun 2012 #19
Why is it I can assume he's Black? Why can't these laws be overthrown on grounds of racism? marble falls Jun 2012 #6
They should be abolished because they are insanely wrong. Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #9
I agree and racism is insanely wrong. marble falls Jun 2012 #48
So? Why the outrage? SecurityManager Jun 2012 #8
In addition to dooming the 24 yr. old to a life in prison, it will cost ladjf Jun 2012 #10
Ever seen kids on crack? SecurityManager Jun 2012 #14
Yes. And I've also seen kids on heroin, speed, alcohol or god. hobbit709 Jun 2012 #22
THIS!!!! GObamaGO Jun 2012 #26
I agree. The drug policy is whats whack. And so are the people who support it. marble falls Jun 2012 #49
Since you say you have "no sympathy for drug dealers . . . and coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #32
ever seen 20-somethings rotting away in our for-profit prison system? frylock Jun 2012 #35
Your opinion is worse than any opinion on anything I've ever heard Occulus Jun 2012 #55
Being locked up forever for introducing a drug dealer to a victim? mwooldri Jun 2012 #15
victim? What victim? I don't see a victim anywhere in that transaction. Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #51
Are you sure you are at the correct web site? RC Jun 2012 #17
There are several - TBF Jun 2012 #18
What you mean? DU doesn't accept alternative opinions now? Dawgs Jun 2012 #21
What I am saying is "Where is the empathy for a obvious extreme miscarriage of justice." RC Jun 2012 #27
Tolerance isn't a weapon for you to use against us. nt Romulox Jun 2012 #30
this place is not what it used to be, and that's sad.. frylock Jun 2012 #36
wow seriously? Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #50
IMO that sentencing judge - and the prosecutor's office... mwooldri Jun 2012 #11
Clarence Aaron Case: Pardon Attorney Torpedoes Plea for Presidential Mercy RC Jun 2012 #12
hmph! chervilant Jun 2012 #16
Private prisons love these types of laws. But then they wrote them for maximum midnight Jun 2012 #23
If he had only "cooperated"--identified which of his neighbors were jews--then maybe Romulox Jun 2012 #31
k&r HiPointDem Jun 2012 #37
The American legal system is so f*!$ed up as to be beyond belief, we don't have a legal system. Uncle Joe Jun 2012 #38
I have found it very easy to not conspire to do 9 kilo coke deals in my life. aikoaiko Jun 2012 #39
This is like Mark Young's case in regard to marijuana RainDog Jun 2012 #44
President Obama should give him a Presidential Pardon. AJTheMan Jun 2012 #45
These laws essentially sentence people into slavery. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #46
He did a little more than just witness the deal. Incitatus Jun 2012 #47
Yes. Bogus headlines actually undercut the stories. cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #52
To those authoritarian apologists responding here; Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #53
If there was a serial killer who murdered joggers and pissed on their corpses Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2012 #56
Morning kick. It's already being reposted this morning. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #58
 

lookingfortruth

(263 posts)
1. I'm not saying he wasn't in the wrong BUT this country is Fucked up! Life in Prison for DRUGS AND
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 06:06 AM
Jun 2012

HE DID TOUCH THE DRUGS he didn't force the person to buy the drugs. But this is what the fuck happens in a country where prisoners are basically a commodity thanks to the Corrupt justice system that has been allowing the corporate prison system to get bigger and bigger.


We should be ashamed of ourselves!


Keep in mind Norway as a repeat criminal rate of 2%. We have a repeat rate of 50%.


THE HONESTLY TRULY SAD PART: IF rehab centers could make money and become a for profit centers we would see rehab centers for just about EVERY crime and maybe be a little better off.

jp11

(2,104 posts)
2. I didn't see why he wouldn't turn snitch to save himself, supposedly, some jail time or
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 06:15 AM
Jun 2012

face an easier sentence. I suppose that would be a factor but I don't know enough about the case and didn't see it in the story.

Still it is extremely screwed up as are many of our drug laws and even regular laws where someone can get more time for robbing a bank than killing someone or even several people.

Bohunk68

(1,364 posts)
5. You do realize
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 07:28 AM
Jun 2012

what happens to snitches, don't you? Snitches are not held in high regard by either those they snitch on nor those they snitch to. And, the authorities keep coming back over and over again to the snitches coercing them into even more "deals" in an effort to entrap others. Snitching is not good for your soul.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
13. Almost everyone cooperates with authorities to lessen their sentence.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:04 AM
Jun 2012

Some even testify at court. It's a common practice, even by the most hardened of criminals.

The subject line of the post/article is also a little disengenious. He didn't just witness the drug deal. He was a participant who stood to gain money from it.

It does seem that one life sentence or 30 or 40 years would've been more appropriate, though. Maybe there were extenuating circumstances? A rap sheet, maybe?

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
40. That has nothing to do with this case.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:18 PM
Jun 2012

Different crime, different person, different criminal background, difference circumstances, different acts of cooperation maybe, different jurisdiction.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
62. Drug dealing isn't a victimless crime. Let's see a link to your supposed "murderer" of a child
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:48 PM
Jun 2012

who got 25 years.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
41. You think it's a bad thing to cooperate with the law, when you're caught red handed?
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:20 PM
Jun 2012

He's young. He should've saved himself. Instead he ended up in prison for life.

Plus, as I said...he was a participant. He wasn't just a "witness," as the subject line says. And you don't know his criminal background. So why would you even have an opinion without having all the facts?

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
60. Why not just execute the kid? It would be far more "compassionate" than caging him like an animal
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:40 AM
Jun 2012

for the rest of his days.

(Is this: needed? How about this: ? )

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
43. Yes, it's sad to think that you're in my tent. Someone who judges w/o the facts.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:25 PM
Jun 2012

That means you're easily persuaded and easy to get hotheaded about things, without realizing you don't have all the facts.

Tell me something about this guy's background and rap sheet, and I'll tell you why this guy got life in prison for participating in a drug deal and refusing to cooperate.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
42. That's true. He could end up dead in prison, anyway. You'd be hard pressed
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:22 PM
Jun 2012

not to find a prison full of snitches, though. Criminals aren't exactly ethical people; when caught, they'll sing like birds, to use a cliche, if it cuts their time.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
24. It's still bullshit posturing...
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:53 AM
Jun 2012

for every person in the OP, there are 100 other harder, tougher criminals who will happily spill their guts...I knew a guy in prison who was part of a drug ring run out of Ft. Bragg -- These guys made a blood oath (they were all Airborne or Green Berets or something) to never turn rat, and of course when the first person got caught on something minor, he sent all 10-12 comrades up the river...

It's all fun and cool to celebrate the 'don't snitch' culture, just don't be surprised when the courtesy isn't returned...

TBF

(32,062 posts)
20. Snitches get killed - that's why.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:16 AM
Jun 2012

At least in jail he has a chance of getting his sentence commuted down the road.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
25. I don't see any chance of that...
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 09:04 AM
Jun 2012

If I'm looking at three life sentences, I'm turning those other assholes in and taking my chances on the run -- Especially since most of these smaller neighborhood drug operations have a very short time in power...If worst comes to worst, I'm going down shooting...

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
3. This is tantamount to kidnapping in its disregard for the rights of Aaron.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 06:55 AM
Jun 2012

The mere fact that I break a law doesn't give the fucking government the right to put me away for life. Grossly disproportionate punishment violates human rights. Unfortunately the Supreme Court has basically said that there is no 8th Amendment protection against disproportionate punishment.

spicegal

(758 posts)
4. Our legal system has become completely insane with these outrageous mandatory sentencing guidelines
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 07:08 AM
Jun 2012

and "war on drugs". Putting a any young person away for life, unless it's something particularly egregious, like cold blooded murder, is ridiculous. It feels like our justice/penal system is resembling that of a banana republic. It's no about justice.

TBF

(32,062 posts)
19. No - it's not about justice.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:15 AM
Jun 2012

It's about profit. When prisons are for-profit they are going to be full. That's how capitalism works ...

SecurityManager

(124 posts)
8. So? Why the outrage?
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 07:41 AM
Jun 2012

He set up the buy and then refused to cooperate? Typical now looking for tears and I could care less.

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
10. In addition to dooming the 24 yr. old to a life in prison, it will cost
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 07:50 AM
Jun 2012

hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep him in prison for how ever long he lives. Was he that big of a threat to society?

SecurityManager

(124 posts)
14. Ever seen kids on crack?
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:07 AM
Jun 2012

I have let him rot I have no sympathy for drug dealers, pedos and murderers.

NONE

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
22. Yes. And I've also seen kids on heroin, speed, alcohol or god.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:21 AM
Jun 2012

you sound like someone that I'd rather be around a crack addict than you.

GObamaGO

(665 posts)
26. THIS!!!!
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 09:31 AM
Jun 2012

The fact is, our prisons are so overcrowded with non-violent drug crimes with insanely long mandatory sentences, that we do not have the room to house the pedos and murderers (who in a lot of cases have much shorter mandatory sentences).

The war on drugs is in part done for the Prison Industrial Complex (to assure slave labor and profit) and in part by Big Pharma (because that is the only LEGAL Drug Cartel allowed).

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
32. Since you say you have "no sympathy for drug dealers . . . and
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:55 AM
Jun 2012

murderers," what is your opinion on the big tobacco companies? What is your opinion of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney?

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
55. Your opinion is worse than any opinion on anything I've ever heard
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 02:42 AM
Jun 2012

from a crackhead or a meth head. And I've known several.

Fortunately, there is only one sure cure for your sort of opinion: bleak intolerance. The degree of Authoritarianism you're expressing has no place in any decent society, period.

Now, go read more about this particular case. It might do some good for you.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
15. Being locked up forever for introducing a drug dealer to a victim?
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:08 AM
Jun 2012

I respectfully disagree with you on one single point: the severity of the punishment.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a crime was not committed. I don't think anyone is saying Mr. Aaron is not guilty. I don't think the majority of decent people would argue that Mr. Aaron should not have served any time behind bars.

It's the severity of the punishment. Being locked up forever. If it was me for that I'd have tried to have killed myself by now.

IMO he should be out of jail by now. Nearly 20 years in jail for merely introducing a dealer to a victim. People do murder and rape and serve less time than this.

It also serves society as a whole no purpose than to have Mr. Aaron as a burden to the taxpayers of this country, where he could be out working doing something.

Yes, I'm from England. When someone is locked up over there, they typically serve time in Her Majesty's Prison (HMP). But most people say that they're staying at Her Majesty's Pleasure. We don't have a King or Queen here in the USA, so Mr. Aaron is serving time under Uncle Sam's Pleasure.

It's a simple question: Does the punishment fit the crime? My answer is no, it does not.

 

Dawgs

(14,755 posts)
21. What you mean? DU doesn't accept alternative opinions now?
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:20 AM
Jun 2012

The poster doesn't have sympathy for someone who was involved in a drug deal and you're chastising them because the title of the OP says he should be sympathetic to them.

This place is not what it used to be, and that's sad.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
27. What I am saying is "Where is the empathy for a obvious extreme miscarriage of justice."
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:19 AM
Jun 2012

Our country's prisons are full of men such as this, that do not deserve their fate. To blow them off as deserving of their fate simply because they are in prison, is cold hearted Republican style thinking.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
36. this place is not what it used to be, and that's sad..
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 04:07 PM
Jun 2012

nope, it sure isn't the same place. more and more we see posters like yourself arguing in favor of right-wing talking points. sad indeed.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
50. wow seriously?
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:13 PM
Jun 2012

get the fuck out, you're joking, right? This is an appropriate punishment?

Oh you just forgot the sarcasm smiley. Ah, silly me. You got me.

Oh wait, no really get the fuck out.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
11. IMO that sentencing judge - and the prosecutor's office...
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 07:55 AM
Jun 2012

... have a way of getting Mr. Aaron out. Something called the 8th Amendment to the US constitution, and something mentioning "cruel and unusual punishment" ?

Three life sentences for introducing a drug dealer to a customer - a first time offence? And simply because the sentencing laws mandate a severe punishment for this crime ... in a wholly arbitrary fashion? If Wikipedia is to be believed, it cites a 1972 case of Furman vs Georgia where the judge laid out guidelines for what is considered cruel and unusual. Mr. Aaron's case would have fit those guidelines perfectly.

However times change and not always for the better. Again using Wikipedia, Harmelin vs Michigan - a US Supreme Court case in 1991 - seemed to turn this on its head. A certain Justice Scalia, along with Chief Justice Rhenquist, in their majority ruling wrote that the 8th Amendment did not include any proportionality guarantees - and that the 8th Amendment should be taken with no regard to the crime at hand. Therefore someone handling a pound or more of cocaine sentenced to life without parole under a mandatory sentence was not considered to be cruel and unusual.

So if we were faced with a 1970s court system, Mr. Aaron would have served at most a few years in prison. Today he faces his entire life behind bars. Plus given the present serving justices on the Supreme Court, I could only presume that Scalia would refer back to the 1991 case as a reason why Mr. Aaron's three life sentences is not cruel and unusual.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Mr. Aaron did not commit a crime. However his sentence is completely absurd.

So back to my subject response. IMO that judge should vacate that sentencing, with a stay to be appealed to a higher court, invoking the 8th Amendment. Take it to the Supremes again. Give them the opportunity to look at the sentence again and rule that it is cruel and unusual.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
12. Clarence Aaron Case: Pardon Attorney Torpedoes Plea for Presidential Mercy
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:03 AM
Jun 2012
That Aaron joined the long line of rejected applicants illuminates the extraordinary, secretive powers wielded by the Office of the Pardon Attorney, the branch of the Justice Department that reviews commutation requests. Records show that Ronald Rodgers, the current pardon attorney, left out critical information in recommending that the White House deny Aaron's application. In a confidential note to a White House lawyer, Rodgers failed to accurately convey the views of the prosecutor and judge and did not disclose that they had advocated for Aaron's immediate commutation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/14/clarence-aaron-case-plea-presidential-mercy_n_1516098.html


Maybe we should retire the Lady of Justice and use the Executioner and the Taskmaster, with the bull whip, her place. After all what are our prisons, but mostly black slave labor? Where is the Justice in our Justice System, where the proven innocent are executed and petty criminals receive life sentences.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
16. hmph!
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:08 AM
Jun 2012
"...one can argue that a less harsh sentence might have been more equitable."


No duh, Judge!

The 'Drug War' is yet another source of obscene profits for the Corporate Megalomaniacs who've usurped our media, our politics, and our global economy. Of course, it's a bonus for the Megs that it keeps some of our most creative individuals stoned into oblivion.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
31. If he had only "cooperated"--identified which of his neighbors were jews--then maybe
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:40 AM
Jun 2012

he'd only be serving a single life sentence!

Uncle Joe

(58,364 posts)
38. The American legal system is so f*!$ed up as to be beyond belief, we don't have a legal system.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 04:15 PM
Jun 2012

We have a draconian, class and race based, political retribution system posing as a legal system.

Thanks for the thread, xchrom.

aikoaiko

(34,170 posts)
39. I have found it very easy to not conspire to do 9 kilo coke deals in my life.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 04:26 PM
Jun 2012

Is it really that difficult for some people to avoid?

The sentence is harsh I will admit, but he did get a life line and declined.



RainDog

(28,784 posts)
44. This is like Mark Young's case in regard to marijuana
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:34 PM
Jun 2012
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1994/08/reefer-madness/3476/

In the state of Indiana a person convicted of armed robbery will serve about five years in prison; someone convicted of rape will serve about twelve; and a convicted murderer can expect to spend twenty years behind bars. These figures are actually higher than the figures nationwide: eight years and eight months in prison is the average punishment for an American found guilty of murder. The prison terms given by Indiana judges tend to be long, but with good behavior an inmate will serve no more than half the nominal sentence. Those facts are worth keeping in mind when considering the case of Mark Young. At the age of thirty-eight Young was arrested at his Indianapolis home for brokering the sale of 700 pounds of marijuana grown on a farm in nearby Morgan County. Young was tried and convicted under federal law. He had never before been charged with drug trafficking. He had no history of violent crime. Young's role in the illegal transaction had been that of a middleman—he never distributed the drugs; he simply introduced two people hoping to sell a large amount of marijuana to three people wishing to buy it. The offense occurred a year and a half prior to his arrest. No confiscated marijuana, money, or physical evidence of any kind linked Young to the crime. He was convicted solely on the testimony of co-conspirators who were now cooperating with the government. On February 8, 1992, Mark Young was sentenced by Judge Sarah Evans Barker to life imprisonment without possibility of parole.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
46. These laws essentially sentence people into slavery.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:41 PM
Jun 2012

That is what the inmates of for-profit prisons are, slaves.

Incitatus

(5,317 posts)
47. He did a little more than just witness the deal.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:46 PM
Jun 2012

The sentence is still ridiculous. It would be a ridiculous sentence if he was making the deal himself, but the title of the article is misleading.

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
52. Yes. Bogus headlines actually undercut the stories.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:36 PM
Jun 2012

If the objective is mass-propaganda then sensational headlines are ideal. More people see news stories than read news stories.

But when your target audience is people concerned with policy they may be more critical readers than average.

To me, when I hit something in a story that is plainly false I tend to lose interest... I won't know which successive statements are true, so why bother.

So an otherwise perfectly good story about excessive sentencing is spoiled.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
53. To those authoritarian apologists responding here;
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 01:39 AM
Jun 2012

Have you considered that this could very easily have been Barack Obama's fate with just a moment of bad luck?

And do you ever consider how many Barack Obama's there already are that are languishing in prisons across the nation? People that you are all so righteously willing to simply throw away simply because you don't know them?

And you dare to call yourselves liberal...

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
56. If there was a serial killer who murdered joggers and pissed on their corpses
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:23 AM
Jun 2012

There would be a topic here titled "man sentenced to death for public urination"

This guy was a paid middleman in a transaction for twenty pounds of cocaine, not a kid selling ditch weed at the skateboard park. Yeah... you go to jail for that.

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