You want to know what is taking middle class jobs?

[sheshe2]

The internet which every huge company is pushing. Why? It is cheap!

No need for sales people anymore. Yeah! They win and we lose.

[doc03]

1. What took middle class jobs are the f--g middle class wanting cheap

imported consumer goods.

[sheshe2]

3. Why are you trashing the middle class?

[doc03]

4. I am not trashing the middle class I am trashing people bitching about imports

taking jobs while they buy imported products. People in other industries bought imported clothing, no more textile workers. People bought imported shoes no shoe industry. Auto workers assembled cars in Detroit from imported steel, they didn't care they don't make steel. People bitch about taxes so the state saves them money and buys imported steel to build bridges. What does the coal miner care he doesn't work in the mill? on and on

[TheFarseer]

6. Yes, you're so right. Nt

[sheshe2]

7. I never "bitched" about imports.

My post is about the internet that is taking ours jobs. THE INTERNET!

Buy from the internet, screw a salesperson. I had a customer spend 7K on the internet, then came in to me, a commissioned sales person to ask about the product. I spent 2 hours with them. Lucky me. I got them to cancel the on line order and place it with me.

Middle class dies as companies promote the net and screws the working class.

[doc03]

14. Yes you are right the internet takes people's jobs. The invention of the computer

eliminated millions of jobs. The continuous miner eliminated thousands of coal miners jobs. The continuous caster and electric arc furnace eliminated thousands of steelworkers jobs. The assembly line eliminated thousands of auto worker jobs. Do you use the self check-out at the grocery store or the self order kiosks? I heard Wendy's is installing self serve kiosks in 1000 stores, that will eliminate jobs. Of course when we had unions workers could bargain for wages and benefits for increased productivity. But since the middle class demanded cheap imported consumer goods we don't have unions now. Can we outlaw technology? How about pushing for a 4 day 32 hour work week?

[sheshe2]

18. No.

I do not use self check outs, I go where there are living human beings.

In stores, I always ask if they are on commission.

You say this.....

But since the middle class demanded cheap imported consumer goods we don't have unions now.

I think you are wrong. It is the elites that are running the show. Sad you blame the middle class.

[doc03]

22. Who buys Toyotas and says American cars are junk? Who buys Corona

and says domestic beer is horse piss? Who pays $150 for Chinese sneakers that cost $5 to make?
We have lost thousands of manufacturers because the middle class has become materialist junkies and
want all the stuff they can get as cheap as they can get it, screw the other guy as long as it doesn't directly affect them.

[sheshe2]

24. ??????????????????????????????????????????

K

Bye

[Recursion]

41. All Corona sold in the US is bottled in Oklahoma

Otherwise I agee with your point.

[Travis_0004]

45. My Toyota was made in Kentucky.

My wifes 'American' car was made in mexico.

[doc03]

64. Just as a side note I just read this morning Toyota is dropping the Prius, sales

are in the tank since gas prices are down and they have competition. In a weak moment I bought a Toyota Tacoma in 2006 also made in California. Toyota recalled it and replaced the totally rusted out frame, rear springs and spare tire carrier made from poor quality imported steel. You aware Tacomas sold in the states that use road salt between 1995 and 2005 were all crushed, they repair them from 2006 on if they can. They are also recalling the Tundra now to replace bad frames. Never had a frame rust out on a 10 year old domestic car.

[PasadenaTrudy]

68. Do you know where you read

news about the Prius being dropped? I'm just curious and want to read it. Couldn't find anything myself by Googling. Thanks

[doc03]

86. It was on the Yahoo home page yesterday, possibly Xfinity but

pretty sure it was yahoo.

Edit: I am sure it was on the Yahoo News homepage yesterday but like you I can't find the story now. A search on Yahoo doesn't
come up with their own story? Maybe Toyota killed the story. Yahoo is about as good a news source as Faux.

[AntiBank]

71. not to pick a fight but non craft, mass produced US beer is absolute shite

gives piss a bad name

[BlueCaliDem]

76. I don't drink so I don't know, but hubby is Dutch and drinks exclusively Heineken, Grolsch, and

Amstel. He'll have a Blue Moon (although a Belgian beer, is crafted in the U.S.) or a Bud every now and then, but his staples are imported Dutch beers.

[AntiBank]

83. have him try this, superb Dutch trappist ale (only actual Trappist monastery brewery in Holland)

La Trappe Isid'or

Bierbrouwerij De Koningshoeven B.V.

http://www.latrappetrappist.com/nl/trappistenbieren/la-trappe-isidor/

La Trappe Quadrupel is even better but its a heavy gravity ale, the Isid'or is a bit lighter, but still is complex

[YOHABLO]

37. It's not the middle class making the decisions from where to buy their steel or anything else.

It's multinational corporations. Their bottom line is profit going straight to the top. Middle class be damned.

[Chan790]

47. ...steel for bridges and construction is not what drive our economy...

non-luxury consumer goods are, and that is primarily the buying behavior of the middle class...blaming this on multinationals, technology and the wealthy is misplaced. It's the fault of common people.

If you want to see the people destroying the economy and middle-class jobs...go stand outside Walmart or Target for an hour. It's people buying imported consumer-grade goods. They want cheap and don't want to pay more for "Made in America" or "Union-made" labels. They're the same people who gripe when their job disappears because of their own buying behavior.

It's pretty simple...if you want to save middle-class jobs: buy American and buy union-made products; fuck Walmart's cheap prices and shoddy goods; oppose free-trade because the cost is too high; and buy local from real people because every dollar spent in your community in locally-owned-and-operated-businesses returns $1.41 in value to the local community that disappears when you buy from a big-box chain owned by a multinational.

[My Good Babushka]

51. Steel and infrastructure is not driving our economy

only because we don't invest in infrastructure projects.

[doc03]

62. I don't agree with your comment on steel, you don't think it takes people

to make steel for construction? The number one consumer of the products we made in the mill where I worked for 40 years was the construction industry. When I started in the company in 1970 we had around 17000 employees now we have ZERO. There is another steel company in the valley that employed about 13000 in 1970 that also made a lot of products used in construction there are maybe 500 employees working now. Between those companies we lost about 29500 direct good paying steelworker jobs I have heard that for each job in the mill it created around 7 jobs outside. There is a loss of about 200,000 jobs in 45 years and a good portion of that was just from steel used in production of products used in construction. I do agree 100% with the rest of your post.

[Chan790]

78. This actually goes back to MGB's point...

and coincidentally I agree with both of you. All of those jobs are and were important...but at this point, construction and infrastructure is not an economic driver of our economy because we don't build anything anymore and haven't in decades, not in large enough quantities to make an impact. All those steel jobs went away because we stopped building and repairing infrastructure in large measure.

I wish we'd return to domestic infrastructure and investment...the reasons we abandoned it were militaristic (and I know that better than most, my family fortune comes from defense manufacturing) and the companies that fight for greater defense spending are being foolish, they lose nothing if we reinvest domestically. Let's pretend that we decided tomorrow that we were going to run defense spending by 70% and that 100% of that cut had to be directed to domestic infrastructure...how many jobs would be lost? 0. Actually a large negative number, because the construction would create jobs...but let's not even consider that for a moment. There would be zero net jobs lost in the defense sector...and less than a million total job eliminations once things shook out.

Why? Why is interesting...you know who produces a large percentage of the world's high-speed trains? Boeing. Also, McDonnell-Douglas. The same technology, machinery, specialized labor and engineering that makes great planes...makes great high-speed trains. The expertise is interchangeable, the challenges nearly identical. Producers of propulsion for those trains? Pratt & Whitney, Rolls-Royce, General Electric. These companies also lead the way in the manufacturing of turbines and windmills. Tank manufacturers are generally also construction equipment manufacturers. Weapon-guidance systems, sensors and fire-control all have civilian-sector uses. Drones are highly-useful for a number of things beyond warfare--from firefighting to law enforcement to agriculture to forestry to construction to research sciences. And so on. We have what is actually a highly-diverse and highly-skilled manufacturing base that over the past 40 years has crammed itself down into a highly-specialized sector and seems to have forgotten that they're actually better at non-defense manufacturing than defense manufacturing.

[Exilednight]

87. By all measurable economics, this is 100% correct. The OP is actually quite wrong, the

Internet has actually increased middle-class jobs in the sales departments. It has reduces wages out of the six figure category for many,

People that were once making 100k or more are now making about 60% of what they would have made prior to the internet (adjusted for inflation)

[scscholar]

2. Depends on where you live! Here in Seattle, the Director's Rules prevent...

many of us from getting fast access. I've lived in my building for nearly a decade, and we can't even get cable TV, much less Internet access. Sawant, who has a husband that works at Microsoft so thus she's very anti-Internet, has fought against allowing us faster than dial-up or ISDN.

[Scootaloo]

39. Fucking Poe's law

I can't tell if you're writing satire or not.

[PasadenaTrudy]

69. Whaaat? n/t

[frankieallen]

75. What the hell are you talking about?

[scscholar]

80. About how Microsoft has way too much influence here

Plus with the NIMBYs, so many of us are still stuck on dial-up.

[frankieallen]

81. Why would Microsoft not want people to have fast internet?

And what is a NIMBY ?

[scscholar]

84. Not in my back yard = NIMBY

People here don't want their streets, sidewalks, and yards dug up to install new cabling so we have the Director's Rules created to prevent utilities from doing that. Do a Google search for "directors rules seattle," and you'll find more than 3/4 of a million results.

[TheFarseer]

5. It would be interesting to see stats on that

I think a lot of people work in internet sales and shipping all the stuff. I think a much bigger factor is GM shutting down factories in MI and setting them up in Mexico, Schwin shutting down in the states and opening up in China along with furniture makers, appliances and on down the line. Not to mention call centers which used to be huge here in Nebraska and now most of them are in India or Phillipines.

[FreakinDJ]

8. Off shoring offers many many great Tax Avoidance schemes

Too many for big corps to pass up

[sheshe2]

10. The internet sales are the same as off shoring.

They don't have to pay commission to the middle class.

[FreakinDJ]

11. Yes but the internet doesn't offer Tax incentives

nor should the US government for off shoring

[sheshe2]

13. I do not care about the tax incentives right now.

I care about what is being taken out of the pocket of commissioned sales peoples pockets. Do we the middle class matter to you?

[FreakinDJ]

15. Actually I only buy items not locally available off the internet

And these are not common items. Carbide inserts for machining, chromolly tubing the type used in small airframes, not off the self items

Much of the garbage on ebay cost more then what I can buy locally for and don't get me started on the lost litter caused by deceptive advertising, rip off sellers, and cheap inferior products.

Common items such as 6160 stock I call the supply house and ask for a quote

But of course I'll shop different supply houses if the pricing isn't inline

[sheshe2]

9. Nope.

I work/ worked in commission sales. Lost my job. I can't compete with the net or the rabid coworkers that work with.

[Tal Vez]

12. The internet is not going anywhere and globalization isn't going to recede.

Whatever we do, we need to adapt to the realities that the world is becoming smaller, more connected and more interdependent. The internet and globalization serve to increase production. The problem concerns distribution of the wealth created. That's where there needs to be more focus and change.

[sheshe2]

25. Every dayum business profits ....

with on line orders.

[pampango]

48. I think someone like Trump could do a number on globalization since it is partly the result

of human efforts to tie countries together rather than push them apart. (Of course, it is also the result of modern technology, communications and travel.)

Krugman wrote that there was a mini-globalization period during Woodrow Wilson's era that was reversed by the republicans that followed him in the 1920's. They raised tariffs, restricted immigration and ended that period of globalization by their efforts in favor of a period of nationalism and isolationism. Then FDR came along and promoted internationalism and set up the international organizations that have played a major role in the modern form of globalization.

Much of the republican base, which Trump tapped into, wants to do what 1920's era republicans did and get rid of much that FDR created.

Of course, modern communications and travel make the world a 'smaller' place no matter what any politician does compared to the 1920's. But someone like Trump could destroy much of the infrastructure of globalization and reverse it, at least for a time. Eventually the world would probably get back on the track that it was pre-Trump, just like it did under FDR, but that might take a while.

[Nye Bevan]

16. I know, I really miss having to go downtown to the travel agent to plan a vacation,

to wait to speak to an expert who will give me hotel and airline recommendations, and book flights for me, all in exchange for a modest commission. Those were the days.

[Hoyt]

52. No joke. +1.

[Just reading posts]

65. Ha! Excellent point. I *love* being able to plan every detail of my vacations myself.

[frankieallen]

77. I would rather plan my own vacation on the Internet.

I can compare prices, read reviews on hotels, shop airlines, all on my computer screen. Travel agents are paid kickbacks from certain company's to sell their services, fuck that, I'll shop and purchase on my own thank you very much.

[JI7]

17. yes, but at the same time it helps a lot of people make money who otherwise

would not have been able to.

so there are good and bad and we need to figure out how to deal with it and other changes that might come in ways that would make it easier for everyone .

[sheshe2]

20. Sorry JI7

Your post does not make any sense. We take money from Peter to pay Paul? That is not a win win situation.

Also, a 5 minute order on the phone and hours presentation on the floor does equate.

[Recursion]

42. Because it's not zero sum, is JI7's point

The internet destroyed tens of millions of jobs but was an overall good. Trade destroyed millions of jobs but was an overall good. But the bad parts still happened.

[msongs]

19. here in hawaii we buy many things off the internet because they are NOT available

locally, especially technical stuff or stuff particular to a trade. of course then we are screwed by UPS unless we can talk the sender into using the post office, which is 2/3 cheaper and faster as well. but most companies have kickback scams with UPS so they will not use the post office even tho it saves $$ for customers

[sheshe2]

23. Hey, msongs.

I know some have no choice. You are on the island.

I am just saying in general, this is what is happening.

Hugs

[mercuryblues]

21. I was trying

to figure out the logistics of traveling to El Paso, without flying. I was really interested in taking a train. No matter how I tried, I could not figure it out. My husband suggested calling a travel agent. When was the last time anyone has used a travel agent?

[JI7]

29. this is where the travel agents can help

the internet can only do so much. much of it has to do with information already available but just makes it more easier to access.

but a travel agent can listen to what kind of experience you want and bring up things you may not have thought of or considered but have interest in.

i think it would also help to offer to be available to help them anytime during their travels. only issue might be getting phone connection. but offer to be available 24/7 to answer any questions they might have while they are anywhere in the world.

i think it would help people to have an actual person to talk to also instead of constantly researching.

[X_Digger]

26. I can't remember the last time I bought a product that has or used to have a sales person.

There's no salesperson making commission at the book store I use. There's no salesperson making commission on groceries. Or shoes. Or tools at the wood working store. Or at Home Depot. Or the garden center we go to.

I do my research, thanks. I know what I want, and I buy it. Who needs some schmuck trying to upsell the extended warranty or the heated ass wiping toilet seat.

[JI7]

28. i think sales people use to be better about knowing what they

were selling than many these days.

but it's a different world. people can research online and read what actual users of products have to say so they already have an idea of what they want and don't really always need a salesperson to inform them of things.

[sheshe2]

31. False

You believe everything you read on line?

Lol!

Salespeople are well informed and trained. You make us sound like idiots and what you know from the net is fact. Lol!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

82. Some salespeople are well informed and trained

And some are not. In my experience, many are not.

If I can research what I want to buy, buy it on-line, often paying less than I would pay if I schlepped down to the brick and mortar, and have it delivered, normally for less than I would spend in time and gas to and from the brick and mortar, that's what I'm going to do.

[sheshe2]

30. Hey Dig.

Enjoy your brick and mortar stores now, they will soon be gone.

The schmucks? Sadly those schmucks are middle class workers trying to abide by company rules to gain a paycheck. You have a problem with the middle class getting a paycheck?

Why do you hate the middle class SCHMUCKS! Why do you hate us?

[X_Digger]

61. Oh look, a straw man. Did you stuff it yourself, or did it come pre-stuffed?

Keep your fingers out of my mouth- my words come out just fine without help. Besides, I don't know where your fingers have been.

I don't do much online shopping. But by the same token, I don't shop in places / industries that have sales people.

Offhand, the last place I can recall is my truck, and that was.. 2005? 2006? And then, I walked in knowing exactly how much the dealership paid for the exact model I wanted. I asked to see the finance guy, and we haggled directly. No, "let me go talk to my manager.." bullshit.

[Lonusca]

67. How much should you make on commission?

What extra value do you add to the price of whatever product you sell? Let's call it a widget.

What value do you add to that widget that I cannot get somewhere else?

[Albertoo]

27. what is taking middle class jobs are stocking frames, spinning frames and power looms

Ned Ludd, is that you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

[Iliyah]

32. .50 Cent raise to $10.50 and many business owners are highly upset

here in Los Angeles. Some restaurant owners claim that raising the minimum wage will result in loss of jobs because many owners will rely on automatic ordering machines (computers) and maybe one - four people who will take the food to the tables (well unstill robots are perfected).

[sheshe2]

33. Yes. Thanks Iliyah.

Outsourcing is an issue when Automation is not.

Lose Lose!

Hugs.

[Iliyah]

35. Here in Los Angeles companies like Target and majority of the big grocery stores

have self check out stands. Eventually, they will take the place of cashiers. Only a few will remain to help out on the self-check out stands. Many jobs are slowly being replaced by machines/computers, fact. Also dictation machines are becoming more sophisticated and will eventually replace typists, secretaries, court reporters.

Hugs, sheshe2!

[sheshe2]

36. Hey..............

Looking for a job now. I have lost hope. I am 63, soon 64 and I am scared.

Sadly they do not need us anymore.

Funny, this whole concern about outsourcing when automation and the internet is of no concern. Jobs lost, why don't they get that?

Love you, Iliyah.

[madinmaryland]

34. LOL!! The middle class job losses started even before Al Gore invented the internets.

This has been a long and dedicated effort by the reich wing to decimate good paying jobs for Americans, starting back in the 1960's and getting its foothold with Richard Nixon and the "Southern Strategy". Then Raygun took it to a completely new level to destroy the American worker.

[YOHABLO]

38. I just ordered a new power adapter and battery from Amazon .. very cheap but, they're going back.

Both items were made in China, mind you. The power cord adapter overheated and began to melt. The battery would not hold a charge and made my computer cut off suddenly. So yeah we can order this crap from Amazon but it's not well made and unsafe. The same power cord adapter sells in Walmart for about $35 bucks. I got it for about $8.00. I probably will order another from Amazon and cross my fingers. I'm poor, what else can I do?

[Scootaloo]

40. When did you lose your job, Sheshe2?

[Sherman A1]

43. It's a combination of factors

there is never just one simple answer. The internet is part of the puzzle, but not nearly the whole picture.

[kacekwl]

55. You are so correct.

Nothing is just black and white. I agree with some who say people only care about themselves and will buy anything with no concern where it was made because it won't affect them but one of the main reason Wal-Mart took hold is because wages have remained stagnant or been dropping so of course people have to price shop to get the most for their meager wages. Then more local businesses close and more lose jobs so more have to shop at Wal-Mart and the like. Catch 22 in many ways.

[pampango]

57. If it's too complicated to fit on a baseball cap, then I'm voting for Trump.

He knows how to make things simple so I can "understand". (Even if my 'understanding' is not based on reality.) Just kidding.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. You could afford a middle class life on a retail salesperson job's salary?

Fuck, I never could.

[TexasBushwhacker]

59. It depends on how far back you go

I started working retail in the 70s. In the store I worked for, most salespeople were not on commision, but furniture, electronics, shoes, cosmetics and fine jewelry were. People weren't getting rich, but a single person could live on what they made and you could work your way up into management even if you didn't have a college degree.

Higher end retailers like Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus still pay commission.

[bhikkhu]

88. I did that in the 80's for a little while

at a high-end department store in California. It was pretty rough. Pay was below minimum wage, you had to sell a certain amount to make above that, and of course you were guaranteed the minimum wage if you didn't sell enough, but then your job was much less secure if that went on long. The hardest part for me was that every good month ended and I was back at square one the beginning of the next month. I was decent at it, but felt kind of slimey most of the time - not what I'd ever want to do for very long.

Pretty much everyone I worked with, including the managers, wished they had a different job.

[HughBeaumont]

46. Greed-driven profit is kicking humanity's ass.

Has been for the past 45 years.

The "New Democrat" position of "Adapt or Die" is merely an aiding/abetting of that general economic paradigm.

[Nye Bevan]

66. Ummmmm...... you think that "greed-driven profit" has only been around since 1971? (nt)

[HughBeaumont]

90. I love how that's in quotes . . . like it doesn't exist . . .

1971 was the birth of the notion that mere profit isn't good enough . . . it's to be emphasized over EVERYTHING. Labor, livelihood, society, the greater good, health, long-term outlook, etc.

You know, kind of like it was in the Gilded Age before that goddamned Commie Roosevelt screwed everything up and that traitor-to-his-class Eisenhower raised taxes on the job creators.

[madville]

49. or use the Internet to your advantage

One friend of mine warehouses, packs and ships goods for local craftspeople (like bird houses, honey, etc), networks with an IT guy to assist them with creating a website or set up an online store through EBay or whatnot.

Another guy I know makes custom milking machines for different livestock and all his sales are online.

A neighbor is a custom gunsmith and machinist and sells most of his products online.

People have to adapt and take advantage of the new opportunities instead of wishing for the past to return.

[Hoyt]

53. That is a good point. The internet allows a lot of people to sell art, music, consulting services,

etc. Plumbers, roofing companies, painters, etc., can promote their services. But, we do have to recognize it hurts other people.

[madville]

54. Change happens more quickly these days

I started out pumping gas and have now gone through building houses, working printing presses, military, electronics, communications site maintenance, marine electronics and project management. I still have 20 years of work left in me, I'm sure I'll do a couple of different things still before it's over.

I'm weird though, probably a workaholic, I actually thrive on a reasonable amount of stress, it's a motivator.

[beachbum bob]

56. what is killing the middleclass are american consumers....those who shop at walmart

lead the way as it enabled walmart to rid america of good paying manufacturing jobs and have foreign companies buy up those companies assets for pennies on the dollars and ship the tools overseas

the middleclass wholeheartly contributed to their own demise

[WillowTree]

58. If people didn't have a preference for shopping online, online selling wouldn't be taking over.

Not everyone, of course, but lots of people anymore don't have the time or inclination to drive somewhere and park and walk around looking for what they need and stand in line to pay and then haul their stuff home. Many, if not most people anymore are sufficiently well informed that they are able to research most of what they need on their own and don't need (or want) as much guidance from someone whose primary interest is his or her commission. It isn't about people "hating the middle class", it's just time marching inevitably on.

It's just the way it is. People didn't decline to buy one of those new-fangled horseless carriages to save the blacksmith's job or get a refrigerator because they were worried about how the iceman would support himself. Time marches on, technology moves forward and the workplace, and therefore the workers, must to adapt to keep up. When the thing that occupied my time for almost 20 years started to be computerized, I realized that, while there will still be need for some people to do the job at a terminal, there would be a lot fewer of those jobs, so I leveraged my knowledge of the job and the business and learned about the machines and now I'm still in the same industry, but working the IT end of it. And one day, they'll manage to mechanize what I'm doing now, too, but at my age, that's not likely to happen before I retire.

Retail sales is never going to be a growth career again. It's unfortunate that it's caught up with you at an age when it's more difficult to make a switch. More difficult, but not impossible. You'll need to be creative and flexible and, perhaps, reach out to some of the many contacts that you must have developed over the years and, hopefully, something will break for you.

Much good luck.

[JanMichael]

60. also include understating what the concept is. i see some articles using borderline...

...foodstamp eligible income as middle class. there are various ways to qualify how one is in what class. sadly wealth is overlooked and ignored by income.

then toss in hyper inflation of almost everthing and we are finally seeing how there really are two or three americas and most people are not that well off.

[Zen Democrat]

63. There's lots of manufacturing labor done in the US - by robots, which equals 0 jobs.

[1939]

70. Not zero

some jobs will be there to design, build, program, and repair the robots.

[GoCubsGo]

72. Retail/"sales" jobs have not been "middle class jobs" for a long time.

They usually pay minimum wage, or slightly more--not exactly "middle class." And, they are about all that is left in the job market. My actual middle class job in scientific research went away 10 years ago, when the Busheviks rescinded our funding over some petty grudge by an underling. I have yet to find another to replace it. They are few and far between, and the few that come up are usually are entry-level, so experienced people need not apply, especially if one is over 45 or so. Us older people are fucked, and have been.

[GoCubsGo]

74. P.S., You want to know why I shop online?

Because I can't find what I need in my local stores. I don't want to have to risk my life having to drive 30-60 miles each way, on roads full of people who have no business behind the wheel of a motor vehicle, to find a store that sells the swimwear, sports bras, athletic shoes, etc. that fit me. I would be more than happy to buy stuff locally, if I could find what I wanted here.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

73. Judging from the OP and the first sub-thread --

Some people just resent others doing what is best for themselves.

[GeorgeGist]

79. Death of a salesman

[RB TexLa]

85. Think how many farm jobs there would be if we didn't have tractors and combines

And all the candle makers gas and electricity put out of work.

We should have stopped those things!!!

[phylny]

89. I remembered being so excited when the

Sears and JC Penney's catalogs were delivered to the house and I could spend forever flipping through the pages. Now, you can look online.