In his heart radical "religious" homophobia was at war with his natural self.

[skip fox]

The war was brutal. Filled with alternate and overlapping periods of confusion and self-loathing, he finally exploded into a demonical (he was laughing while he was shooting) rage.

That's my lay analysis.

Here's why it's important: to stop incidents, mass shootings or not, of this particular type (and it's, admittedly, a sub-group) as a society we should openly accept sexual diversity and encourage religions to follow suit.

(The elimination of assault weapons is profoundly important, but that's not likely to happen. Besides, the above suggested attitudinal shift is appropriate regardless.)

Does anyone have a better answer?

[skip fox]

1. By the way . . .

It's monsters on the right-wing who try to shame those who are sexually different from them. That is, this is as much as fault of radical Islamic homophobia as it is of radical Christian homophobia. In fact, he probably first encountered the internal conflict when he heard the likes of some Southern evangelical preacher on a rant about gays and lesbians, maybe a nut from Westboro Baptist Church.

(The man who mows my lawn won't speak to his adult lesbian daughter because his religion cannot abide "the gay," as he put it. Point being, homophobia profoundly changes the lives of some people.)

[Bluenorthwest]

2. Your theory needs to address the latest news.

Killer of French police officer, woman broadcast scene live on Facebook, source says
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141488206


Where is your 'gay panic defense' for that one? How about this:
‘Vicious and brutal': A second Canadian man is beheaded by Islamist militants in the Philippines
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141488244#post2

That's just today. Strikes me that Orlando and even San Berdoo have commonalities with these murders. For example, the killers all state the same motive. That's a strong commonality.

Just an observation. Were all the people who shot up that club in Paris also suffering 'gay panic'?


On the flip side, thousands of people 'come out' every year without a hint of violence. No commonalities.

[writes3000]

3. You continue to deny part of the truth of this killer. It's bizarre.

To the people who were victimized by this killer, they deserve to understand the full truth. There's no agenda behind that. The victims and their families want to understand what really happened. No one should deny that terrorist teachings and ISIS rhetoric influenced this guy but that doesn't seem to be the full story about this killer and his dynamic with Pulse and the victims.

[Bluenorthwest]

4. Your conjecture is not 'truth' it is agenda driven conjecture.

To know what happened, you can't write the narrative in advance of fact, that's what you are doing. Part of the fact would be the context in current events, the actual actions and words of the killer. Fact is not rumor, nor gossip nor presumption.

You can't seem to address the actual facts. Contextualize this mass murder with the other murders. If you can't do that, your theory lacks heft.

You did not even attempt to do that. You also can't explain why thousands of others come out without murdering people. What additional factors were at play, even if 'gay panic' ala Dan White is the case, others do not do what he did. Why is that?

How do you explain Paris using 'gay panic' defenses? How about the two stories I cited? If your theory does not cover all the killings, it's not much of a theory at all.

[skip fox]

7. Yes, we're making a conjecture, but one based on currently available information.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/former-classmates-recall-orlando-shooters-bizarre-reaction-on-911/2016/06/13/f08b2950-3187-11e6-95c0-2a6873031302_story.html

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-20160613-snap-story.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/witnesses-orlando-shooter-regular-gay-clubs/story?id=39839464

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/orlando-shooter-reported-pulse-club-regular-patrons-article-1.2672445


How do we minimize the radical-Islamic influence on his acts by recognizing how the influence affected not just his mind but his psyche?

No one's trying to prove anything or diminish the role of radical Islamic teachings.

Why not look?

[ck4829]

5. If he had come out, maybe that would have been one less problem in his life

The US is far from perfect gay rights wise, but we are making progress. While I have no doubt many in his old circle would reject him, he would have been welcomed by others, and he wouldn't be alone. He would see gay people, including gay Muslims.

I also think that his sexuality is secondary, I think he had other sexual issues as well. I am willing to bet that he equated sex with control and power. If his ex-wife and widow would be asked and they would be comfortable answering, I am sure they would say he was controlling and maybe even sadistic in bed.

[ellenrr]

6. Democracy Now this morning had a discussion of relationship between domestic violence

and mass shooting.

We want explanations; I want an explanation, certainly the victims and families want an explanation.

But sometimes we are just not going to know.
Homophobia? Self-hating gay guy? religious extremist?
nut case?
all of the above?

Whatever - it is easy to limit the # of deaths in mass shootings by barring the sale of guns like the AR-15 which shoots 24 bullets in 9 seconds.
What is the justification by gun advocates for a civilian (or anyone) having a gun that can kill 70 people in less than one half a minute.
What kind of mind invents a weapon like this.

[skip fox]

8. But one doesn't throw one's hands up in despair before taking action.

I'm sure radical Islamic teachings and the attraction to ISIS and terrorism work diffentenly in the psyches of different individuals. For some it may appeal to their sense of making a radical gesture and become well known. For some to be accepted by an admired group. Etc.

We were only considering HOW radical-Islamic teachings (and perhaps Christian homophobia as well) affected this apparently gay individual.

Until we consider the WAYS these teachings and actions propel different individuals, we cannot expect to successfully counter them.

[skip fox]

9. By mid-day, more and more people are making this diagnosis.

[dembotoz]

10. prefer your caption this posts but i think you are right..this guy was more wacky than isis

allegiance to different extreme groups who hate each other perhaps more than they hate us

some things just do not compute

[skip fox]

11. In that case,

please come CAPTION Donald Trump!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027912304