Gentlemen: Courage is not a masculine attribute

[cali]

Cowardice is not a feminine one.

And yet, many, many men can't seem to indicate courage or cowardice without assigning a gender to both.


I'm not one for censoring language, but for fuck's sake, think about what it says about your own bias when you equate courage to having a dangly pair between your legs and what it says when you equate cowardice to having female genitalia.

[Ilsa]

1. Life itself with all of the "normal" problems

Requires courage. I know women who have it in abundance.

[potone]

2. May I ask what prompted this post?

I agree that there is an American mythology that idealizes the idea of the mythological, self-created rugged individualist, which is associated with the pioneer frontier west, but I think we have gotten beyond the idea that courage is an exclusively masculine virtue.

What I think that we haven't gotten beyond is valorization of violence as an expression of masculine identity and moral integrity. This, in my view, is what needs to end. We need to appreciate an ideal of masculinity that is life-affirming rather than destructive. It is not far to seek to find many, many examples.

[cali]

3. Sure. I see it here constantly.

[potone]

4. Yes, so do I.

But I wondered if this was somehow a response to the massacre in Orlando. If so, I would appreciate an elucidation of your thoughts (if, of course, you want to share them). Otherwise, I am at a loss about what prompted you to start this thread.

[cali]

5. Oh, I've been thinking about writing it for ages

It is not a response to Orlando. Mostly, I've been thinking of it because I see it here so often and so frequently from men. I actually have less of a problem with the b word than the word pussy. The former is banned here, the latter, afaik, is not. In any case, it goes beyond those two words.

[Maru Kitteh]

13. It is seen here on DU every day, and IRL several times a day.

[Android3.14]

6. You mistake characteristic with gender attribute

But the fact is that just like yin and yang are feminine and masculine, with an element of each within the other, so is the duality of the words bravery and cowardice (or foolhardy and sensible - connotation is everything).

Stressing about the gender attribution of words is a waste of concern.

[cali]

7. what utter codswallop.

Bravery and cowardice are neither feminine or masculine attributes, and yet there is the constant reference to bravery being masculine and cowardice being feminine.

It's sexist bullshit.

[Android3.14]

10. As long as we recognize that codswallop translates to "facts that are contrary to my opinion"

That will be fine.

But just to throw a little more light on the subject, no one is saying men and women are incapable of expressing attributes that have masculine or feminine connotations. It is common to recognize that some words have etymology leading back to masculine nouns in root languages and it is also common to recognize that some words are more associated with female (yin) and male (yang).

For example, "nurture" is a word with a feminine attribute.

This argument seems as silly as the displeasure some people have with the word "history" because it includes the word "his", as if a pronoun inadvertently manifesting in a noun has any impact on our heritage.

I see you are unhappy about this, but I fail to understand why.

[mopinko]

8. this is why my favorite slang for having guts is not balls but

huevos.

[FrodosPet]

9. Yes! Our genitals are NOT a source of courage

Just the opposite. We are scared of the pain that they can cause when kicked.

Courage is not the ABSENCE of fear. It is the OVERCOMING of fear. The ABSENCE is fear is called "reckless stupidity". It has nothing to do with chromosomes and dangly bits.

[smirkymonkey]

11. K&R

[NightWatcher]

12. Balls are tough and pussies are weak?

I was a catcher in baseball and on more than one occasion took a foul ball off home plate to the nuts and even though I was wearing a cup, I was dropped to the ground in immense pain.

My cousin Amy on the other hand gave birth to a 9lb baby without epidural...and lived to tell the tale.

I think we should reverse the associations with pussies and balls. Balls are very delicate while the other are elastic enough to pass a child through then and then return to normal. That sounds pretty tough to me.

[Maru Kitteh]

16. You want to know how tough women really are? Ponder this.

The exact same set of nerves, with all of the attendant sensitivity, exist in the female vulva as the male testicle.

We are all formed from the same kind of transparent fish-looking zygote/fetus thing with the same nerves. Hormones and chromosomes change some structures, but the nerves are the same.

Now look down and imagine 9 pounds of baby. Tough indeed.

[PeaceNikki]

14. Hell, yeah, cali!

[reign88]

15. Hear hear to that

Courage is a trait that can be exhibited by anyone, at any time. It is something that should be celebrated wherever it is found.

Slightly off topic, but I'm a sucker for underdog stories, especially in sports, and one of my all time favorites is the story of the 90's women's World Cup/Olympic soccer teams.

If you ever get to catch the documentary on them, I think the one I'm talking about was made by HBO, you should check it out. I have probably seen it ten times because I can never turn it off when it comes on.

They overcame an incredible amount to rise to being the best in the world, and honestly, haven't really looked back. Women's soccer in the US is some of the best in the world.

Awesome story.

[closeupready]

17. lol, whatever you have to tell yourself.

[cali]

18. So "he's a real pussy" isn't a common insult?

[closeupready]

19. Female individuals of most mammal species are docile and passive

relative to males, who are more aggressive and active. The fact that men and women behave consistent with those qualities may not suit the views of some people, but if you want to live in a different reality and it helps you to argue that observations can be explained in an alternate way consistent with your chosen reality, then by all means, do so.

I just think it's kind of dumb.

[reign88]

20. Definitely don't disagree on the biological argument

but this was relating to courage in general.

However, if you do want to take it to the biological argument, how many people want to run into a female bear with her cubs anywhere near by?

From a biological programming standpoint, men are more aggressive generally due to testosterone, but women tend to have more propensity for violence in the case of their "young".

Silly debate to have though honestly, especially given the context of the original post which was regarding the ability to be courageous. Plenty of men and women exhibit unbelievable levels of courage in all sorts of situations, and you can't always know which is which until the ish hits the fan.

[closeupready]

21. I don't begrudge anyone the desire to talk about this stuff.

I just approach gender topics on DU with an awareness that the man is always wrong/evil/malevolent and the woman is always saintly/pure/loving/supportive.

Your example about the mother bear is a good one, though infant bears are sometimes rejected by their mothers.

[reign88]

22. Oh I'm 100% with you on

the point about defending against the pendulum swinging too far when it comes to the men always wrong/evil/etc. I fight both ways.

People are individuals, prone to good and bad. I judge people by their actions. I've known some great men and women, and some horrible men and women.

Hopefully we all try to fall on the "great" side as often as we can to offset the times we are jerks...haha.

[whathehell]

30. A common insult that LIES about women & denigrates them

I hate it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. Why are you directing this observation at only men? Ignorance isn't a masculine attribute. n/t

[CBGLuthier]

24. There are two theories about the word "pussy" used to describe cowardice. Neither have anything to

do with the slang terms for women's genitals.

Most theories revolve around either the word pusillanimous or an old english word pursy.

But I am sure as has been the case many times I will be told that it doesn't matter where the word came from since it must be derogatory to women.

Oh and I have heard WOMEN use the exact same language you complain about.

[demmiblue]

25. This thread has been enlightening.

Thank you for linking it from the now deleted thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7918776

[tonyt53]

26. You said genitalia.

[Agnosticsherbet]

28. Testicles as a metaphor for courage goes back 600 years

Or more.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/08/a_ballsy_explainer.html

As to cowardice being attributed to womanhood, that goes back to 1580 or earlier.

http://anthrocentric.tumblr.com/post/81621685922/pussy-is-not-short-for-pusillanimous

[Fumesucker]

29. Intestinal fortitude was the most common reference to courage I recall in the Marines

More colloquially known as guts.