Why Is Weed Illegal?

[xchrom]

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/06/why_is_weed_illegal.php



Gov. Andrew Cuomo recently came out in favor of pot policy reform, announcing Monday that he wanted to decriminalize public displays of just less than one ounce of weed.
As we reported then, the move was heralded by pretty much everyone, except maybe Republicans in Albany. Just today, the Wall Street Journal suggested that Cuomo might cave to G.O.P. pressure and scale back his proposal -- a move that the Gov's office vehemently denied.

We have been closely following developments in marijuana measures in New York and the U.S. -- even offering a list of the best places to smoke weed in the city. But one question keeps coming up: How did weed wind up illegal in the first place?

To answer that, we have to travel back more than 400 years -- before the United States was even a country -- to the 17th century to check out policies about.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. I also heard the distilleries as an industry lobbied Congress to criminalize pot.

They couldn't handle the competition.

[geckosfeet]

2. Not sure. But it would be a huge export product for Hawaii and the west coast.

on edit: An ounce of weed is an awful lot. If I were a regular consumer, given the potency of today's weed, an ounce would easily last six to ten months.

[JTFrog]

7. Six to ten months?

On what planet?

Seriously. I'm the caretaker for my father who is in the Oregon medical marijuana program. An ounce of top grade medical marijuana lasts about six to ten DAYS.

Maybe if someone were using it recreationally every couple of weeks it would last six to ten months.

FFS.

[geckosfeet]

108. Last time I used it was using it for the nausea from chemo.

Not medical grade - a friend who knew I was having chemo gave me enough to make about 5 or 6 very thin joints.

Two or three good tokes relieved my symptoms dramatically. It also got me quite stoned.

Even if I were to smoke daily, two or three tokes is all it takes. An ounce would last a while.

[kestrel91316]

17. I use miniscule amounts but not everybody else does.

I smoke what probably comes out to a gram or two a month BUT I also used an ounce to make some cannabis oil for making edibles and that ounce will last 4 months at most.

I am small and a small amount is all I need currently, but other folks are not so fortunate.

You are not everyone.

[Occulus]

98. "superweed" is a myth

brought to you by those who would keep it illegal.

[maddiemom]

3. William Randolph Hearst?

He campaigned against it in his papers; had his own motives (freeing up crop land in Mexico, or so I've read.)

[YellowRubberDuckie]

100. Loggers and the Cotton Farmers didn't want competition.

I believe William Randolph Hearst helped out his buddies. Good call.

[Bohunk68]

107. According to the book about the

Emperor's clothes, you are right. When I first read the OP, that's what went through my mind. It all had to do with paper production from trees rather than hemp, even though hemp is a much superior paper and hemp being a renewable resource, and much more product per acre, year after year.

[maddiemom]

112. Kind of an interesting PS.

Nearly forty years ago (early seventies) I was living in southern West Virgina with my then husband who was managing a local mining company. The surrounding property was overgrown with hemp which had been planted there during WWII. Luckily no hard core drug dealers were aware of this. A few harmless local pot heads we knew socially did know and were begging to let him harvest it (easy in their minds, realistically I'm not sure.) Even though I can't deny we'd both smoked the "evil weed," on a few occasions, he had it decimated to avoid further problems.

[TBF]

4. Interesting article -

especially the fact that it's rooted in bigotry like so many other things in this country.

[byeya]

9. Anti-Hispanic; Anti-African American; Anti-Jazz and personal freedom.

Too hard to commodify when it can be grown most everywhere.
You know, it's against what the good people stand for and can be used as a hammer against the undesireables.
Harry Anslinger: What a POS.

[Comrade Grumpy]

23. A recent book on Mexican attitudes toward marijuana is enlightening.

"Homegrown" by Isaac Campos.

It shows that Mexico developed full-fledged Reefer Madness during the 19th Century. Weed was associated with violent craziness, indigenous witchery, and low-lifes like soldiers and prisoners.

We pretty much imported our Reefer Madness from the Mexicans. But in the process, what had been largely a class thing in Mexico became a race thing up here. Gente decente in Mexico thought only scum smoked weed, but up here, it became dirty Mexicans smoke weed.

"Homegrown" is an important contribution to the literature of pot prohibition, and a revisionist one.

[waddirum]

40. thanks for that recommendation

I'll check it out.

[randome]

36. Anything can be commodisized.

They sell water to people gullible enough to buy it.

[MrScorpio]

46. We have a winner! nt

[obxhead]

5. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Weed is extremely profitable for so many industries, counties, and states.

The court and prison systems alone collect billions every year for MJ busts alone. Factor in the people all along the policing of the drug that take payoffs to look the other way.

Will pot ever be legal? Not likely. Not until we have a massive change in government, like a revolution for instance. Too many people make far too much money for it to ever be legalized.

[cojoel]

11. it will be legalized

I don't know when. Most likely the process will start through the citizen's initiative process (which I consider evolutionary rather than evolutionary). There have been some of those already that have failed. Sooner or later one will pass. Then another. Then an insightful court decision will come along that throws the 'stare decisis' on this issue out the window.

[Logical]

16. I doubt it in our lifetime. 50 year away.

[K8-EEE]

28. How can we afford to pay for cannabis prohibition if WE'RE BROKE WE'RE BROKE etc.

BIGGEST WASTE OF MONEY EVER!

[pokerfan]

35. Sooner than that, I think

A simple majority won't be enough to offset the lobbying but once it gets to around 60% or more, even the special interests will be unable to prevent it.

The top 5 interest groups lobbying to keep marijuana illegal as being:

1. Police Unions
2. Private Prisons Corporations
3. Alcohol and Beer Companies
4. Pharmaceutical Corporations
5. Prison Guard Unions

The Top Five Special Interest Groups Lobbying To Keep Marijuana Illegal

[Logical]

43. Thanks for the graphs. That is good news. But....

It seems like the polls are always encouraging but actual votes never match the polls.

[pokerfan]

106. Yeah, the special interest $$$

can have a huge influence on elections by motivating people to turn out and vote their way. That is why I think it's going to have to get to 60% or perhaps even more before it happens.

[Comrade Grumpy]

24. On the ballot this year in Colorado and Washington.

And maybe Oregon (we'll know in a few weeks). And possibly Michigan, Montana, and Nebraska, where signature-drives are ongoing.

And legalization is polling above 50% in the West in recent polls.

[IndyPragmatist123]

109. I think it passes in Colorado

A fair amount of the Republicans in Colorado are Libertarian-leaning, so I think there is a pretty good chance it passes with ease in Colorado. I don't know much about Washington, but hopefully it passes there as well.

[obxhead]

33. I once thought the same, but

there is simply too much money going to too many powerful people for it to be legalized.

There have been 4 national studies commissioned since the famous Nixon study and each has called for at bare minimum a decriminalization of MJ. Each President has then increased the penalties for MJ after the study.

We create and manage laws at this point based on money and who gets it, not on the will of the people or the needs of society.

[spanone]

6. because merck, eli lilly or any other large pharma company didn't create it.

[JTFrog]

8. Right.

They created a synthetic drug that is much harder to synthesize than extract from the plant. It's far more expensive and far less effective. That's how the 1% does business in our country.

[awoke_in_2003]

21. The synthetic can be patented...

and, since it is less effective, they will have to sell more. It is a win-win for big pharma.

[HopeHoops]

10. The cotton lobby was behind it becoming illegal - they funded "Reefer Madness".

[MH1]

12. With assistance from the booze industry, right?

that's what I always heard.

[HopeHoops]

13. I've heard yes and no on that. The cotton industry knew hemp was superior.

[obxhead]

37. I've also heard DuPont had a large hand in it.

They came up with a fancy new rope called nylon and couldn't sell it due to the superiority of hemp. Penalties increased shortly after nylon went into production.

True or not? I can't say for sure. It's one of the many stories I've heard.

[TheWraith]

51. Not true.

Hemp rope is, in fact, nowhere near superior to synthetic rope: it's not as strong, doesn't last as long, and being organic hemp rope is subject to rotting when exposed to moisture which nylon rope isn't.

[Occulus]

72. Doesn't exposure to salt water outright destroy nylon rope?

I thought I read that somewhere once.

Edit: nope, I must be misremembering or confusing nylon with something else.

[wovenpaint]

86. With all due respect, your reply is incorrect

I'm a textile professional and a hemp proponent, so I feel compelled to respond.
Hemp is well known for it's durability and strength. The original Levi's were made from hemp. It's been used historically for ropes and sails due to its mildew rot, and mold resistance. Prehistoric textiles made from hemp have survived where other fiber haven't.

Hemp would be a wonderful thing to grow in this country again-right now we have to import it.

Here's some info: http://www.hemphasis.net/Clothing-Textiles/cloth.htm

[RainDog]

87. Rope was only one of many, many uses

Last edited Sat Jun 9, 2012, 11:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Which included car bodies and fuel. Early autos were built to run on hemp.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/popmech1.htm

1938: Hemp: The New Billion Dollar Crop

...All of these products, now imported, can be produced from home- grown hemp. Fish nets, bow strings, canvas, strong rope, overalls, damask tablecloths, fine linen garments, towels, bed linen and thousands of other everyday items can be grown on American farms.

Our imports of foreign fabrics and fibers average about $200,000,000 per year; in raw fibers alone we imported over $50,000,000 in the first six months of 1937. All of this income can be made available for Americans.

The paper industry offers even greater possibilities. As an industry it amounts to over $1,000,000,000 a year, and of that eighty per cent is imported. But hemp will produce every grade of paper, and government figures estimate that 10,000 acres devoted to hemp will produce as much paper as 40,000 acres of average pulp land.

[wovenpaint]

89. Yep, it's not a coincidence

That hemp was made illegal the same year that DuPont introduced nylon. 1937
Then, they had a shortage of nylon during WW2, so hemp was legalized again-until they didn't need it anymore, then it was made illegal again.

Hemp would be a wonderful crop to grow in the US again, rather than have it imported...but follow the money...

[HopeHoops]

111. Everything comes down to money.

[Festivito]

18. And, after prohibition, 10,000 federal workers needed jobs.

So they fought hemp, er, ah,... Using the American / English name would have ended their attempt in laughter from the public.

So, they called it by the Mexican / Spanish name: marijuana.

Thus, marijuana is named as illegal, not cannabis or hemp -- except in the fine print.

[HopeHoops]

110. Cannabis and THC are part of the Schedule I entry for Marijuana in the Controlled Substances Act.

Nobody has ever died from THC overdose on its own. It really doesn't belong on the list at all. It's an herb.

[kestrel91316]

14. Stupidity and money.

[treestar]

15. Even heroin was legal once

The society of the time did not make it illegal until it perceived a problem.

[lonestarnot]

19. A whole economy based on keeping it outlawed.

[ManyShadesOf]

61. because we still have oil

[NewEngland4Obama]

20. WELL....

<img src="">

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. Well...

[spanone]

48. that looks like a republican in deep thought.

[Major Hogwash]

22. Stupid question of the day!

It's illegal for the same reason that cocaine is illegal.

[Comrade Grumpy]

25. And why is that?

[K8-EEE]

26. HUH??? Marijuana has benevolent medical uses.....does cocaine?

Really medical MJ which is legal here in CA, saved my daughter from a shitload of awful pharmaceuticals with REALLY BAD side effects. She is experiencing relief from her symptoms with no side effects, her health has blossomed, I don't think cocaine has any medical uses and furthermore becomes very destructive to the body rather quickly, so why the comparison.

[Electric Monk]

30. It was used as a local anesthetic for eye surgery

http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/tag/eye-surgery/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2515656/?page=1
"Coca Koller"

[kenny blankenship]

32. Indeed it was the original local anaesthetic

Synthetic substitutes have been developed, but I have seen a bottle marked cocaine (a solution probably for swabbing on the skin, since a solution for injection would have been in a sealed vial and this was just a bottle) in a doctor's office in my lifetime. Maybe it was just the Doc's personal supply of "the real thing" - I didn't think it would be wise to seem curious about it so I didn't ask.

[TheWraith]

54. Quite. Virtually every recreational drug was originally medical.

Heroin, in fact, was originally invented by Bayer as a painkiller. Likewise it's predecessors, laudanum and morphine, all of which are derivatives of opium. Methamphetamines are used medically to fight obesity, cocaine was a topical anesthetic, and on.

[Chan790]

31. Actually cocaine is used not-infrequently as a topical immediate painkiller.

Typically in certain types of dental surgery or in individuals sensitive to anesthetics or other analgesics. It's use is becoming less common as other better solutions with less severe side effects have come onto the market.

Highly-regulated by government, produced by pharmaceutical manufacturers, sold under strict schedule controls.

http://www.medicinenet.com/cocaine_hydrochloride-topical/article.htm

[Incitatus]

38. Stupid answer of the day.

[Major Hogwash]

47. Why are drugs illegal?

Stupid response of the year.

[Comrade Grumpy]

52. Why don't you tell us why drugs are illegal?

[Major Hogwash]

62. Who's this "we" you keep referring to?

Are you in a mariachi band or sumpting?

[Occulus]

69. "we" who aren't making an attempt at a threadjack.

And what you're doing is called threadjacking.

[Major Hogwash]

81. Whoa dood, that is so like awesome, it's amazing awesome!!

And pointing out to the rest of the crowd, you don't know jack at the same time!

Whoa, dood, that's not "threadjacking", that's like being awesome on a whole new awesome level.

Whoa dood, who's the awesomemost now?

[Warren DeMontague]

90. Its almost as entertaing as watching the Nature Channel

When they show an

Ostrich Mating with a Cheetah.

[Occulus]

94. !

[RainDog]

97. ...

[Occulus]

56. Which only shows how apt your username is.

Seriously, hog... If you know nothing factual about the subject and have nothing intelligent to contribute to the discussion, why bother posting?

Just to stir shit? There's a word for that, you know...

[Occulus]

63. And THIS thread is about cannabis,

which isn't remotely like LSD in any way and which cannot provoke an overdose reaction when ingested in the most common ways.

I guess I should be asking if you have anything relevant to contribute to the discussion.

[Major Hogwash]

64. Whoa dood, that is so wicked awesome!!

I bang a gong for your bong.

[Warren DeMontague]

68. HURR DURRR

Pot is going to be legal. Better get fucking prepared to deal with it.

[Warren DeMontague]

70. It's spelled "overdoses". Why dont you ask your emergency room which drug causes the most damage?

Here's a hint, it's not "LSD". It's alcohol.

[Major Hogwash]

75. Whoa dood, I misspelled a wrod!!

Time for some more awesomeness!

Guess I'll load another gong up and bang it some more!!

[Warren DeMontague]

79. Your well-crafted debating and logic skills remind me of someone, can't think who..

It must be on account

Of
My drug damaged
Cranium

[Occulus]

93. I was thinking sduderstadt or Mr. Benchley

But that one fits just as well.

In other news, a jury just told hog, in a 6-0 decision, to STFU, so there's that, at least.

[Warren DeMontague]

96. Code name Hard Hat... Hard Hat!

[Dragonfli]

101. I certainly don't know, but you guys are on to something, perhaps all 4 are in fact 1.

Perhaps that is not the case at all but rather there is simply some sort of Jungian asshole archetype at work, either way, I see the same similarities.

[Occulus]

104. Metasmoke. I think I'll close this with a

[Warren DeMontague]

58. Keep diggin, mac.

There is no rational reason why we spend $60 billion a year- not including local LEO and incarceration costs, mind you-to keep a psychactive chemical once described by none other than a DEA Judge as "one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man" illegal.

Your pithy one liners notwithstanding, all "drugs" are not created equal, and for everyone not directly financially $$$ benefitting $$$ from $$$ the $$$ drug $$$ war $$$ gravy $$$ train, the drug war is an expensive, wasteful, cruel joke- not to mention an affront to fundamental concepts of personal liberty.

And it will end, sooner or later.

[Warren DeMontague]

66. What?

So, theres no such thing as a bad law, major?

[Major Hogwash]

74. Whoa dood, have you ever been in prison?

Can't vote if you have a felony, dood.
Can't even own a firearm, dood.
Whoa!!

Yeah, cuz breaking the law is so awesome, ain't it?

[Warren DeMontague]

76. What the sam hell flippin fuck are you on about?

Some laws are wrong. Your "logic", if i can call it that, is that if something is illegal, it must be wrong... because its illegal. Until the Lawrence decision, consensual gay sex was illegal in Texas. Was that law right? Was it just? Did the people arrested under that law "deserve it" because they were "breaking the law, dooooooood"?

[Warren DeMontague]

80. So, you Think the Texas law against consensual gay sex was right, then?

Yes, or no.

[Major Hogwash]

83. Whoa dood, I don't live in Texas. Are you really that awesomely stoned?

Whoa dood, you're baiting skills need to be more honed, dood.

"Yes, or no".

Like you're the awesome judge!!

[Warren DeMontague]

88. I think you should answer the question, since you have made the argument that THE LAW is THE LAW

So, whether or not you live in Texas (the Lawrence decision applying to the whole country, of course) given that in many states consensual sex between two adults of the same gender was illegal prior to that decision, would your position on "it's wrong because it's illegal, it's illegal because it's wrong" be the same?

So, do you agree with the state of Texas prior to The Lawrence decision that consensual gay sex btw adults can and should be illegal?

Yes? No? Why would such a passionate and clever debater such as yourself be afraid to answer that question?

[dionysus]

103. why are you being such a douchebag to everyone in this thread? n/t

[Occulus]

82. He's trying to get one of us to flip out on him so he can send an alert

and shut intelligent people who otherwise care about and can argue the facts out of the discussion.

This needs the attention of a host or two, because in this case alerting on him will not work. I've seen this tactic used before... and it's slimy as hell.

It also says several things about hog, none of them good.

[Occulus]

99. Guess *I* was wrong!

[Taitertots]

55. Actually, Marijuana causes none of the negative social and/or economic problems as cocaine

Your response makes no sense.

All the negative problems associated with Marijuana can be directly traced back to it's prohibition.

[Major Hogwash]

59. You're so wrong, it's hard to know where to start.

None of the economic problems as cocaine -- like going to prison!
Court costs are free now?
Lawyers are free?

Usually when crooks thrown in jail, it's called justice.

Slavery was once legal too, bub.

[Taitertots]

65. You could start by reading my post, bub

"All the negative problems associated with Marijuana can be directly traced back to it's prohibition."
All those problems are directly caused by prohibition. You can't claim the problems caused by prohibition are a justification for prohibition.

A law prohibiting something that has causes no harm to others and minimal harm to themselves is unreasonable and profoundly unjust.

"Usually when crooks thrown in jail, it's called justice.
Slavery was once legal too, bub."
Imprisoning people for breaking unreasonable laws in diametrically opposed to concept of justice. No one who uses marijuana is a crook because they are breaking unjust and unreasonable prohibitions.

[Major Hogwash]

67. Whoa dood, I did read your screed.

The awesomeness of your post was so awesome, it overwhelmed me to the point of becoming awesome myself in the process.

That's awesome, dood.

"No one who uses marijuana is a crook because" . . . I say so.

Whoa! Dood! That is awesome!!

We can do that, decide which laws are bogus???
Just by smoking pot??

Whoa dood, I did not know that!!
Whoa!!

[Warren DeMontague]

73. The only one in this thread who sounds like an uninformed goof

Is you.

[Taitertots]

91. Did you actually read it this time?

"We can do that, decide which laws are bogus??? "
Not only is it something we can do, it is something we MUST do if we desire living in a world with a moral and ethical government. Laws are not something that should be accepted without thinking, solely on the grounds that they are laws.


So, do you have any actual negative effects caused by marijuana that are not solely caused by prohibition? What reasonable justification could be used to rationalize marijuana prohibition?
There is none. Marijuana prohibition is unjust, unethical, immoral, and counter productive. It is bogus, it should be opposed, it should be overturned, and it should be disregarded.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. 70 million Americans smoke pot recreationally.

You want to find prison cells for all of them?

Yeah, you probably do. Good luck on that.

[Major Hogwash]

77. Whoa dood, that is so like awesome, it's awesomerific!!

Of course, it ain't troo, but whoa dood!!
The fact that you think it is, makes it even more awesome!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

95. Awww, what happened, major? You were doing so well until my question scared you.

Last edited Sat Jun 9, 2012, 09:17 PM - Edit history (1)

You can still answer it, brave and clever thread contributor that you are. Here, i'll help you out:

You have argued that pot smoking is wrong because it is illegal, that the inherent social costs of pot include the costs of law enforcement AND incarceration, not just to society but to the individuals convicted.

The EXACT same arguments- that the law is always right, the damage from the activity can be conflated with the legal sanctions against it- can be made about the pre-lawrence Texas anti-sodomy statutes (and, indeed, any of the myriad similar laws which many states once had)

So- c'mon, brave guy- was the LAW right, like you've argued it always is? Should Texas have had the right to arrest gay people? Should the gay people arrested have "known better"?

[K8-EEE]

27. The fact that frickin' INDUSTRIAL HEMP is illegal tells you the real reason

Mega-corps who don't want the competition.

The crazy thing is we have so many hemp products on the market and we have to import the hemp from Canada and Mexico. WTF with that.

[spanone]

49. and it grows like a 'weed' and it's uses are remarkable

http://naihc.org/hemp_information/hemp_facts.html

[Comrade Grumpy]

29. The question now is why does weed remain illegal?

Short answer: Cops and moms.

The law enforcement/forced treatment complex has powerful institutional interests in maintaining the status quo.

Moms worry about their kids getting high.

[Chan790]

34. Moms should worry less about their kids getting high.

The effects are less dangerous than...say...drinking, most potheads will never smoke enough or often enough to do any lung damage and having been a pothead, I can say it often left me too high to fuck meaning a reduction in rates of teen pregnancy. Potheads tend to be less argumentative and generally more easy-going and compliant.

The shit's a miracle-cure for the parental-ills of adolescence.

[riderinthestorm]

42. Its been a disaster for my family personally. My daughter especially

but my nephew is deeply troubled as well.

I don't think its okay for everyone - like alcohol there are teens (and adults) who can't be responsible about it.

Regardless of my own teen's horror story, I don't think it should be legal for anyone under 21 just like alcohol (or even 18, I've never understood the arbitrary 21 year old rules when 18 year olds can enlist to fight and kill).

[randome]

39. So do Dads.

[Comrade Grumpy]

45. But the polls suggest it's a bigger issue for women.

There is a gender gap when it comes to attitudes toward pot legalization.

There are also racial and class differences.

In California, for instance, low-wage earners are less likely to support than high-wage earners, Hispanics are less likely to support than whites, people with children in their home less like than those without, and women less likely than men.

Legalizers have to convince that low-wage Hispanic mom that it won't be so bad.

[Blue_In_AK]

84. I'm a mom,

and I never worried about my kids getting high on marijuana. I just wanted them to stay away from the cocaine/heroin/prescription pills routine, and thankfully, they all did.

[Fozzledick]

44. Because the government is corrupt!

There are a number of subsidiary reasons - to provide permanent employment for prohibition agents, to allow police to harass and arrest uppity Blacks and Hispanics who have committed no crime, to protect fiber interests from free market competition from cheap hemp fiber, to create an excuse for direct military intervention in the internal politics of Latin America, to allow the use of secret police against political and social dissidents - but they all come down to a corrupt government following it's own self-serving agenda with no regard for the public interest.

[Taitertots]

50. Because the people who organize the marijuana trade could otherwise organize a revolution

Think about it...

[Iggo]

53. Money, and maybe some face.

[craigmatic]

92. Because anybody can grow it which cuts out big pharma.

[Jamaal510]

102. It's illegal because of a few interest groups that

work hard to make our politicians keep it that way. Interest groups such as the alcohol industry, prison, tobacco, and big pharmacies would lose big bucks with legalization of Mary Jane. They want the Drug War to never end!

[Occulus]

105. this, too ^