What a shock, Gorilla Killa Mom is a Jay-sus freak

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

http://time.com/4351781/mother-of-toddler-in-cincinnati-gorilla-incident-defends-herself/

“Accidents happen but I am thankful that the right people were in the right place today. Thank you to everyone that helped me and my son today and most importantly God for being the awsome (sic) God that He is,” Gregg wrote.

Always the first people to shit up "God's Kingdom" and not give a fuck about it.

I'm adding a link to the article featuring the image of her Facebook post (so as to avoid an alert) with zero mention of the animal of course. You can proceed with you "LEAVE RELIGION ALONE!!!" nonsense if you please.

http://www.people.com/article/cincinnati-zoo-defends-itself-after-killing-gorilla?xid=rss-topheadlines

[saltpoint]

1. Memo to Mommy: The same God

you profess to believe in also made that gorilla, and he probably didn't have in mind that the gorilla be in a fucking cage.

Probably your kid had had enough of your bourgeois crap and wanted to try a Tarzan-like escape. He didn't quite make it this time, but next time....

[SCantiGOP]

138. And the same god she credits with saving the baby

is who allowed the child to fall in.

If I were god, and knew every time a sparrow fell, i would have certainly kept that child out of the gorilla pen.

[saltpoint]

174. Seems like it would be the logical thing, yes.

If the choice was, let the child fall into the enclosure or NOT let him fall in, why not take NOT fall in?

Had most of us been asked, I think we'd have picked NOT fall in.

[SCantiGOP]

185. That's because the average person

Is far kinder and more moral than the God of the Bible.

[stone space]

2. Why does her religion even matter?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

3. I was wondering the same thing

Just another way to get the daily-religion bashing post in, I suppose.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

13. What is the purpose of "religion"? nt

[saltpoint]

21. I guess it's to shoot gorillas. It would

be instructive to interview Mommy and see how she thinks religion ought to play into this whole scene.

"The Zoo people blew the gorilla away / My baby was saved / God is awsome."

Jesus. What an idiot.

[elljay]

44. It is the cognitive dissonance

that many religious people have. The plane crashes, 300 die, and they praise God for the miraculous saving of one person. I have no problem with religion if it is not imposed on others. I do mock those who believe in an all-powerful God but who act like he is only involved in picking the winning football team, not in the rape or the disease or the massacre or the tornado.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

54. ^ This right here. nt

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

70. YOU get it.

[deathrind]

82. 👆 this!

I never have understood the cognitive process involved with praising a being for saving that one person while the other 299 perish...

[SusanCalvin]

136. I've never understood the cognitive process involved

With an adult who believes in an imaginary friend.

[passiveporcupine]

154. I'm with ya Susan

But then, I'm the only one in my family who identifies as an atheist. It's depressing. My sisters are pretty smart (well, that's questionable on one of them...the one who got into scientology). And they are not Jesus freaks by any means, but very much into spirituality and belief in a super power of some kind.

The Scientology sister left scientology and became a Jesus freak. All the cousins I know are religious. Don't know about nieces and nephews. I hope a few of them had the strength of character to say no.

I don't know how I got out of it all. My maternal grandmother was an atheist and she lived with us as kids and then I moved in with her for a couple of years when I was 18. I miss her so much. She was one of the coolest women ever, and was so totally loved by everyone in the family. Probably because she was very open-minded, and not judgemental. Religion seems to make most people judgemental.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

162. Going to church cured me of God. nt

[passiveporcupine]

186. Yeah, it did for me too.

But it wasn't just going to church. I was a born again Christian, in middle school, but by high school I was starting to find disfavor in it. Then as an adult I did some research on the history of religion and that is what finalized it for me.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

196. We strolled the same path to our current position, passiveporcupine. nt

[SusanCalvin]

221. I've never been religious for a minute.

I really think it's because my parents bought me tons of books (mostly Scholastic) and I bounced the Greek and Roman mythology (presented as "once it was a religion but now it's not&quot and accounts of religions other than Christianity against why I should just automatically be a Protestant Christian.

Oh, and they, bless their hearts, were totally baffled as to how I got that way.

Plus I didn't even believe in my own imaginary friend. I knew I made her up.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

266. Nuns and "church people" cured me.

Nastiest people ever.

[deathrind]

209. True.

It is kind of bizarro world on that one.

As a child an imaginary friend is looked upon as cute and funny but just a "phase"...

Then

As a teenage an imaginary friend will require medical help and probably get said teenager put on meds.

Then

As an adult it is viewed as a wonderful thing...again. People get together once or more a week to speak to the imaginary friend thru an emissary in special club houses that are built.

[SusanCalvin]

219. That's about the way I've always seen it.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

267. Humans are still barbaric in so many ways, including believing in mysticism and myth. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

257. Right there with you.

[Nay]

117. YUUUUP ^^^^^^^

[GliderGuider]

128. Amen!!!

[greiner3]

132. You forgot

/s

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

4. You'd think maybe that someone so in touch with God could have stopped for a second....

....and even expressed a shred of contrition for the shit their little spawn caused upon one of the Lord's creatures.

Nope. It's all about them.

[eShirl]

7. I'm sorry, I just don't get all the hate for the parents.

Seriously, it's not like they shoved the kid into the gorilla enclosure.

[saltpoint]

14. The Zoo in Cincinnati does blame the parents.

Possibly the parents are blaming the Zoo. They shot the gorilla dead in any case. Mommy decides it was all about God's grace.

O holy bullets! Fell the monster who took my child!!

[eShirl]

16. not my point

[saltpoint]

17. No, but it's what happened. Which kind of,

you know, makes it a pertinent consideration.

[eShirl]

19. I don't get the HATE. That is my point.

[saltpoint]

23. Try 'disregard.' It will get you a lot closer

to the crux of what happened.

As others have pointed out here and on other sites, this mother appeared to be negligent. Her kid crawls into the gorilla enclosure. The ZOO staff had to gun the gorilla down.

The woman's profession of belief in God as the deliverer here is maudlin crap. It also omits the value of the life of the gorilla. Her comments were trite and idiotic.

[Jim Beard]

250. Are you a parent of 2 or more children close to the same age?

I have a 5 year old grandson that is just like the kid. Witness beside parent and child said conversation was child, "Im going in the water.....mother..."No you're not" back and forth until she had to check on the other kids. Should we shoot the parent instead?

[saltpoint]

259. I hadn't even considering shooting the parent.

Truth be told, I don't think it's all that workable a plan. Personal opinion. I'm afraid that was your imbecilic idea, Jim.

But this is a free country; you're free to think whatever you want.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

62. Your biggest problem here is you see it as "hate". It's not hate. nt

[CincyDem]

58. Citation please.

Independent of the religion discussion going on in this thread, do you have any reference citing the Cincinnati Zoo "blaming" the parents. I ask because this one's close to home both physically and emotionally through friends connected with the Zoo and this is the first I'm hearing that the Zoo is attributing blame.

Some data please to help me sort through this ?

Thanks.

[saltpoint]

69. The error is mine. I read the headlines,

of which there are many, saying 'Critics blame mother and Zoo,' and you are right to question that the Zoo has blamed the mother. So far as I know that is not the case.

My objection in this instance is the mother's invocation of God for delivering her child to safety while zoo officials blew the gorilla away. I believe that to be tawdry and cheap. That's my primary concern with her comments.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

73. It's ALWAYS tawdry and cheap whenever that is done. nt

[saltpoint]

75. Agree, only with greater emphasis than

that word confers.

I resent this mother's cheap photo opportunity and her dragging in the Creator of the Universe (her version, not mine) and attributing his being "awesome" for delivering the child to safety.

The gorilla is as much a creature as any of the rest of us.

[Nay]

124. And if God really wanted to save the day, he could have stopped the kid from

falling in.

[saltpoint]

170. Yep. I'm thinking the kid saw his chance to answer

the allure of the wild and wanted to join the gorilla. He'd had enough of suburb schools and soccer practice and all that status quo jibber jabber and he decided here was his chance.

Something like E.M. Forster's "Story of a Panic," from Celestial Omnibus.

[CincyDem]

80. Cool beans. Thanks for the clarification.

Re: zoo officials who "blew the gorilla away". Not the phrase I would have used as it implies malicious, intentful killing and I have some strong suspicions there was a lot of personal trauma and sadness associated with pulling that trigger. This was not a shot anyone wanted to take. Zoo is doing a 3:00EST press conference with additional details but the neighborhood chatter is that Harambe was brought down with a single marksman shot in a moment where his falling would not harm the child.

Re: the parent's statement and God's role...we agree. I would like to have seen a broader awareness of the life lost, not just a narrow view of the life saved.

[saltpoint]

87. The phrasing was used to suggest the absence of

mention by the mother in her public comment. I completely understand the role of Zoo personal pulling that trigger, as well as the trauma of killing a rare animal, one they almost certainly had come to love over a long period.

At one level, the thread imposes a linguistic or philosophical standard on a parent who might have lost her child (though who also allowed the child to slip free), yet on another level (rightly) condemns her reaching in to the slogan bag and pulling out 'God is awesome,' and this just did not cut it with me.

My first choice is that Harambe not have been in captivity in the first place, but I'm too damned old to expect that I'll get my first choices very often.

CincyDem, you are one class act and I thank you for that. If a 'Dem' you be, I would tell you that some (very) many years ago I volnteered for the mayoral campaign of one of my favorite Democrats ever, Roxanne Qualls. Would that Cincinnati had held onto her for a much longer time.

[CincyDem]

115. ROXIE !!!

I love me some Roxanne Qualls. To respect propriety, I won't mention publicly what year she ran for mayor. lol

She was a loss and would love to see her retire from her real estate agent job today and take on our current mayor who is, on a good day, a miserable loser. He ran a crappy campaign that sent dog whistles all the way up into the Western parts of town. His code - I'm going to oppose further development of Over the Rhine area and shut down any programs I can. His real message - I'm going to oppose the development and gentrification programs (albeit poorly designed) that are pushing minority residents up into Price Hill (read that - I keep your neighborhood's white).

He "won" with about 53% of the vote and a voter turnout around 15%, maybe 16%. You read that right 15% !. From that he established a mandate he's been a dick (excuse my french) ever since. We can do better and I hope we do soon.

As for my "Dem" credentials. I'm a born and breed Chicagoan so I know how to vote blue - sometimes more than once in any given election !!!! I stopped believe in the Easter Bunny around age 5...Santa Claus soon after that. But I was about 26 before I appreciated that Mayor Daley (the first) wouldn't smite me from the sky if I voted Republican. I admit, I did it once (but I didn't inhale) and I chalk it up to an indiscreet moment of my youth. Never again since then !!!

Thanks for the props - I do my best to keep things on a respectful level. I don't always succeed and admit when I don't but that's the goal.

Have a good one.

[saltpoint]

169. CincyDem, I

loved this exchange.

Your story rocks. And so does Ms. Qualls. I hope to hell she gets back into public life. Public life absolutely needs her.

[passiveporcupine]

160. I suspect the zoo is taking responsibility completely

for having a barrier system that a little child could get through.

[trueblue2007]

173. Cincinnati ZOO needs to BILL THAT STUPID WOMAN for the wonderful gorilla

who was MURDERED all because she was too lazy to watch her little brat.
That woman should be jailed because she was not watching her kid.

[CincyDem]

205. Thought I'd share this.

I know we sort of put this one to bed but these just crossed my desk.

First, Thane Maynard - Zoo Director and all around good guy - did a press conference this afternoon. I know him from some social interactions around town. He's not blaming anyone and my take from seeing him talk to the press - he's just shell shocked himself. He's really out of character vs. his normal positive, ain't the world great personality.

http://local12.com/news/local/zoo-director-not-pointing-fingers-over-harambe-incident

Second, leading global primatologist (not affiliated with PETA). He wishes for a different outcome but points out nothing is harder than making decisions in the moment with no second chances. At the same time, nothing is easier to watch a video 24 hours later and provide a thorough analysis of what should have been done. He adds at the end that, after viewing the entire video, he appreciates the situation was more dire than his first impression given the moat and possibility of inadvertant drowning.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/rip-harambe

Have a good one.

[saltpoint]

207. CincyDem, that part I said earlier about

your being a class act?

I double it down, effective immediately. Thank you for this whole exchange.

And for your graciousness.

[avebury]

96. What they did was far worse, they were indiffferent.

The child put them on notice of his intent and they igorned the warning. Instead of hanging onto the one child who wanted to go play with the gorillas or moving onto another exhibit to remove him from temptation, mom turned her back on the kid to pay attention to aother children. You cannot expect a 4 year to exhibit impulse control, therefore his actions was totally predictable.

Had they actually paid attention to the boy they could have totally prevented the incident, the boy would not have been hurt and an endangered gorilla would be alive today.

And believe it or not , mom works in a child daycare.

[pnwmom]

145. Had the enclosure been properly designed and maintained to keep children out,

this never would have happened.

[passiveporcupine]

165. do you have a link for this?

The child put them on notice of his intent and they igorned the warning. Instead of hanging onto the one child who wanted to go play with the gorillas or moving onto another exhibit to remove him from temptation, mom turned her back on the kid to pay attention to aother children.

[avebury]

194. There are numerous stories and video clips out on the internet.

People who witnessed the event have been talking about what they witnessed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/killed-gorilla-seemed-protect-child-who-fell-enclosure-witness-n582311


O'Connor who filmed the incident, said she heard the 4-year-old say he wanted to go into the gorilla moat.

"The little boy himself had already been talking about wanting to ... get in the water. The mother's like, 'No, you're not, no, you're not,'" O'Connor recalled, adding that the mother was taking care of several other children.



http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/30/parents-of-boy-who-fell-into-gorilla-enclosure-could-face-prosecution-5912714/

http://www.wlwt.com/news/witness-describes-gorilla-world-incident-video/39777684


These are just a few sites. There is a clip out there of a woman talking about the mother turning away from the boy to focus on the other child. That might be the unlated woman who saw the boy dart off and tried to grab him but was not fast enough.

A 4 year old boy was no impulse control. You cannot count on telling him not to do something and having him obey. I have a friend who has a boy about the same age who has absolutley on fear of anything. If you told him not to do something he would grin and you and do it anyway. The mother obviously had more children with her then she could properly supervise and that creates a dangerous situation. She never should have taken her eyes off of the one kid who wanted to go play with the gorillas. She exhibited extremley poor judgement that day. Her name is now public, as is the name of the daycare that she works for. You should see what is now being posted on the daycare's FB page.

The mother should have kept her mouth shut and gotten some PR advice before making any public statement. She has not helped herself if public reaction is any indication.

[passiveporcupine]

203. Thanks for the links.

I hadn't seen any of these follow up stories.

"I'm right here," a woman shouts, while others shriek in the background. "Please protect him, God, please protect him."

Oh man...the god thing was going on there too, and those shrieks are probably what got the gorilla upset enough to try to drag the kid to safety. If I'd been there, I would have been trying to calm down the idiots that were not helping the situation...but it probably wouldn't have done any good.

[ToxMarz]

110. Humans pretty much inevitably screw up everything they do

So when humans take a bunch of wild dangerous animals out of their environment, build a facility to house and display them, then open the doors to a bunch more humans to come see them close up, inevitably there are going to be screw ups.

[Logical]

118. No, they just totally let their kid climb in there with no supervision. nt

[KT2000]

131. take a 4 year old to the zoo

it is parents' responsibility to watch the child. Their negligence resulted in a beautiful, gentle by all accounts, gorilla being shot and killed.

If people are hands-off parents - stay away from the zoo with the children

A zoo is not a Chuckie Cheese

[Silver_Witch]

217. Let me help you .....

The anger you see at the Mother is that she neglected to watch her child and allowed him out of her control. He was a wee laddie and should not have been left to wander about without her FOCUS in a place full of strangers and wild animals.

The child could have been taken by one of those strangers or hurt in some other way...this time he fell into a cage with an animal that was killed due to her negligence.

Does that help at all?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

9. No mention of the death of Harambe in their statement at all. It's about them and God saving...

...their child. Fuck Harambe, I guess.

[saltpoint]

24. Agree with this. Mommy's remarks were

callous and trite.

[stone space]

148. "litte spawn"?

https://www.google.com/#q=define:spawn

Spawn

(I'll skip the non-human references)

as a verb:

2. derogatory
(of a person) produce (offspring).
"why had she married a man who could spawn a boy like that?"

as a noun:

2. the product or offspring of a person or place (used to express distaste or disgust).
"the spawn of chaos: demons and sorcerers"

[ebayfool]

275. My daughter refers to her kids as 'spawnlings'. They refer to themselves the same on Mother's Day ..

cards, etc. It's not derogatory in all usage. Ha! You oughta hear what I call 'em sometimes!


Jus' sayin'!

[saltpoint]

5. She's the one who brought it up. Ask her. eom

[pintobean]

10. We agree, Stone

It doesn't make any difference at all. Haters gotta hate.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

11. What does "God" gave to with it and why does that matter? nt

[yeoman6987]

129. The mother is thankful her child lived

The press asked for a statement and she gave it. The worry over nothing is stunning. So the woman believes in God. That's not awful afterall.

[muriel_volestrangler]

144. She thanked God for arranging for the gorilla to die

If she thinks this was the outcome from something 'awsome', she's wrong. If there were a 'God' as she believes in, then God could have stopped her child getting through the barrier and the gorilla would be alive.

[yeoman6987]

183. You are 100 percent wrong and too embarrassing to assist

[TipTok]

29. She just appreciated Jesus choosing her kid over the gorilla...

Maybe he came out on top in the best of 5 wresting match between evangelical Jesus and the gorilla god.

[saltpoint]

30. The mouse in the bottom image

is definitely having a What the Fuck moment.

Those are great.

[enough]

35. Perfect. (nt)

[stone space]

40. Where did she mention "evangelical Jesus"? Of "Jay-sus", for that matter?

evangelical Jesus

[Oneironaut]

122. And then Jesus cast a holy nutshot unto his enemies.

The son of God sure likes to fight dirty!

[rhett o rick]

91. It wouldn't have been if she hadn't brought it up. It's interesting that those that want

to speak out about religion can't understand when others speak back. Especially when people use their God as the excuse for their behavior. In my vision of the world, God* loves gorillas too.

*I believe in God as Albert Einstein did.

[Logical]

116. Because it is made up shit. nt

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

153. It lets her off the hook for not watching over her son at the zoo.

Clearly the event was God testing her faith (i.e., had her belief not been strong enough her son would be dead). Christians always make a big point about being "forgiven" as if that excuses the consequences of their decisions.

In this case, her actions resulted in the death of an innocent, magnificent animal.

She'll probably sue the zoo for "emotional trauma."

[passiveporcupine]

156. It shouldn't, but she made it a public issue.

People who are not that into religion, are sick of this "God saved my son" crap. If God had wanted to save her son, he never would have fallen into the enclosure in the first place. God would have wanted to save that magnificent gorilla.

I'm not blaming Mom for the accident. She is right, you can be super protective and kids can still get into trouble. It happens to people who you'd never expect it to.

Just leave God out of it Mom...please.

[camelfan]

157. Her religion matters because...

she used it (or at least professed a belief in god [small g intentional]) as a way to deflect attention from the fact that she was negligent. She did not say "I'm horribly ashamed that I allowed this to happen," only "accidents happen," and apparently without thinking that the god she believes in, if it controls everything, is the very entity that allowed (or even caused) the incident in the first place. If you believe that god controls everything (like the climate of our planet), then you have to admit he's responsible for the bad as well as the good.

[Skittles]

208. it always matters to the sanctimonious

[Hortensis]

6. Imo, this characterization of religious people is

so extreme as to wrong most people.

Btw, psychologists say that people prone to bias don't confine their hostility to one group. People prone to this problem usually dislike so many different groups that everyone who isn't accepted as specifically one of them is on their "shit up you and all like you" lists.

[saltpoint]

8. I would say it was Mommy's point, not

anybody else's. 'God' never was in this story until she imposed Him.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

18. Some of us just do not understand why "God" is always given credit for the good things but...

...is never held accountable for the bad stuff.

I just do not get it.

[actslikeacarrot]

159. I work in Hospice care. God is blamed quite a bit. n/t

[saltpoint]

172. He has some sensational PR people outside

your hospice, though. Quite a damn few of them, in fact.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

25. Please

It's a lack of awareness to anything but themselves and their issues. I though religious folks were supposedly "enlightened".

[saltpoint]

26. Increasingly, there's no evidence of it,

sad to say.

By 'increasingly,' I mean roughly from several centuries b.c.e. to this last week in Cincinnati.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

33. RELIGION: The single most destructive force in the universe! And I DARE anyone to attempt to...

...show otherwise.

[saltpoint]

34. Strong evidence in support of that claim,

yes.

And I'm talkin' strong.

[passiveporcupine]

195. just saw this thread in the science group

http://www.democraticunderground.com/122847336

Yes, religion is often a problem for society. Not always. There is some good that has come from it, but nothing that couldn't have happened even without religion.

[stone space]

202. Sometimes religious folks get in the way of science and technology.

"They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks"--Isaiah 2-4

IN THE KING OF PRUSSIA: THE TRIAL OF THE PLOWSHARES 8 takes us back to 1982 with Emile de Antonio's portrayal of the Plowshares 8 civic disobedience at General Electric's nuclear weapons plant in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. The group included Molly Rush, co-founder of the Merton Center. Posting of this cliip celebrates the April 13 visit of Martin Sheen, who plays the judge in the movie, to Pittsburgh, Pa and the Thomas Merton Center. YOU CAN'T HUG A CHILD WITH NUCLEAR ARMS!!!

The Hammer Has to Fall

Charlie King

A Review of the Plowshares Movement through 2012

A history of the Plowshares movement from 1980 to 2012, compiled from the records of many friends by Ardeth Platte OP and Susan Crane.

[3catwoman3]

214. No argument...

...from me.

[rug]

216. Black holes.

Oh, and hyperbole.

[pintobean]

222. Lol

[ChisolmTrailDem]

229. There you went! Nice to see you yet again! PLEASE EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING POST:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1881640

[pintobean]

234. It was extremely successful.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

235. How is it that you were able to respond months later to a post that was hidden/locked in January?

How did you manage to do that and why were you on that particular post months after it was hidden by a jury?

I'm just curious as to how you happen to have the power to over ride DUs software in order to respond to a post that was hidden months before.

Perhaps I'll make an OP and ask the board at-large how it might be done if you're unable to explain.

ETA: Does anyone else have any ideas about how this poster was able to accomplish this feat?

[pintobean]

238. Magic beans.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027796424#post86

[ChisolmTrailDem]

239. OK, you're unable or unwilling to explain. I expected no less. I do wonder though how you...

...were able to do that and if it was magic beans, what you were doing there to begin with.

But I think I'll just ask the board at large how you did it.

Thanks for nothing, as usual, pintobean

[pintobean]

240. Why would you think I owe you anything?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

242. You obviously were somehow able to post to my long-ago hidden thread and I am just curious...

...as to how you did that. It's simple. I don't see what's so hard about that.

I also wonder what you said and why you deleted it, seemingly because you realized you had just responded to a locked post, which happened to be mine. And since you always seem to be right where I am, with your condescending snark, I naturally wonder what you said and why you deleted it. But I guess you don't possess a logical explanation nor the fortitude to do so. You want to goad me at every opportunity and so you're always delivering snark and then want to be petulant when I ask you a simple question.

Does anyone know how this poster was able to respond to my post that was locked in January? I am genuinely curious as to how some random DUer is able to do that.

Anyway pinto, until my curiosity about this matter is satiated, I will bring it up every time I see you condescendingly snarking me until I get a satisfactory answer. So, expect it.

[pintobean]

243. The text never changed.

It says exactly what I posted.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7868057

[ChisolmTrailDem]

247. You're lost, it's this post I'm curious about...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1881640

I'm done with this tonight. I'll just continue to ask you about it every time you condescend/snark me from now on, until I have an explanation as to how you did it.

[pintobean]

249. I'm not lost. You didn't understand.

"This message was self-deleted by its author." is exactly what I typed and posted.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

253. You're attempting to deflect, yet again. How were you able to...

...responde to my months-ago locked post?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1881640

You'll continue your games instead of answering. So, each time I see you snarking me in future threads, I will ask this until I get an answer as to how you did that.

Goodnight, dear thing.

[pintobean]

256. Another threat?

And, I answered one of your questions. You're welcome, although I owe you nothing.

I've also linked to another answer I gave you a month ago. I see no need to repeat myself.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

226. Of course, perhaps that would be true if I weren't speaking figuratively. If I was speaking...

...literally, it would probably be a super-massive black hole. But it's all in how you look at it...

Ranking the most powerful forces in the Universe - http://www.sentientdevelopments.com/2009/06/ranking-most-powerful-forces-in.html

But anyway, I was speaking figuratively. But you already knew that. But go ahead and pat yourself on the back anyway for being so smart.

[rug]

228. I dunno. Religion may be more destructive than gamma ray bursts.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

232. As far as we know, gamma ray bursts don't destroy human lives and minds like...

...human religion has on this particular mote of cosmic dust.

[rug]

233. I see evidence to the contrary throughout this thread.

[TipTok]

31. What would possibly give you that idea?

[hughee99]

12. Clearly, the problem here was her religion.

[Drahthaardogs]

47. YES. An atheist would never allow this to happen.

Actually, neither would a Muslim. Only Christians would do this. It probably is a latent and repressed memory of Nero and his great love of throwing Christians to the animals. I bet if she goes to a repressed memory hypnotist, this will all work its way out in the wash.

[joeybee12]

15. "Right people in the right place..."

Certainly wasn't you Mom.

[braddy]

20. That set you off? The woman's son was almost killed and just got out of the hospital, and you

post a thread mocking her for being Jewish, or whatever religion she is, for mentioning "God"?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

22. "whatever religion she is..."

LOL, you're cute.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

27. "God" had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of this tragedy. "God" was included in the...

...statement but no mention of the injured child.

That's annoying as hell. The mother brought "God" into this discussion, that makes it fair game for inclusion in this discussion. The OP need not expain or justify anything to you.

[saltpoint]

28. Seconded. It was Mommy who

brought God into the picture.

[braddy]

32. The woman who just almost lost her son, didn't bring anything into "the discussion", she merely

made a response to the media.

Are we supposed to do an internet lynching now because it has come out that she believes in God? There was a time when we would just be glad that her son lived.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

36. I'm glad her son is ok. Ecstatic, even. But "God" had NOTHING to do with it. nt

[braddy]

39. LOL, bizarre.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

42. What's "bizzare"? I'll tell you what's bizzare, the belief that "God" had anything at all to do...

...with this tragedy.

[braddy]

46. Write her a letter telling her of your concern. This overwrought reaction to her

simple mom statement after almost losing her son, is truly bizarre.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

51. "Overwrought", haha! Your attempt to deflect this observation is what is bizzare. Your implied...

...defense of "God" is what is bizzare.

Your overwrought response to the criticism of this mother crediting "God" and failing to mention the unnecessary death of a magnificent and rare animal due to her own failure to maintain control of her child is what is bizzare.

[TipTok]

37. The point...

... is that if she follows the standard religious M.O., she will feel no guilt or concern about what happened.

God works in mysterious ways and also conveniently takes all the blame off of her shoulders.

For examples, please see every whackadoodle politician who ever molested a kid or cheated on his wife. They have a very convenient hotline to Jesus who apparently tells them that it's cool and all is well.

[braddy]

41. She didn't mention Jesus, she said God, this is your big concern today after this near death event?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

48. The child is ok and as such is no longer a concern beyond being happy for him. But "God"...

...had NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH to do with this fact.

[TipTok]

112. Correction... It was not a near death event...

The gorilla was in fact shot dead due to her negligence.

My 'big concern' is the immediate jump to God. If she is thanking him it must be because he chose to let the kid live and the gorilla to die right? All powerful and all that.

In any event, it all is out of her hands because of the master plan from the man in the sky.

I'm also quite comfortable with my educated guess that she was talking about the Christian god.

[saltpoint]

38. That's a cold and ignorant defense of a

clueless woman who spouted her personal belief in God after her own negligence resulted in her son's slipping into a gorilla enclosure at the Cincinnati Zoo.

A rare animal had to be destroyed because of her negligence. We all make mistakes. Some of them serious. This one is serious. The gorilla died for it. She might have removed her head from her ass for a couple seconds at least and acknowledged Harambe's loss.

She didn't.

[Ms. Toad]

142. No. She voluntarily made a comment on facebook.

Her primary statement was not made as a response to the media, she voluntarily - without media prompting - commented to the world at large via facebook.

The response was not what she might have predicted, and her facebook page has been deactivated.

[braddy]

149. The woman is under siege and made a statement to the media coverage and hostile people who

are attacking her.

The poor woman and her son surely weren't prepared for this irrational hatred and passionate viciousness, even a woman who has the same name has had to go on Facebook to try and protect herself and her child from what she is enduring.

[Ms. Toad]

161. The woman was not under seige until AFTER her facebook post.

No one identified her or her child prior to her brag-post on facebook. It was NOT a statement to the media coverage and hostile people attacking her. The bulk of the hostility and media coverage of the hostility are a direct result of the utter lack of self-awareness and concern for the damage her actions caused as illustrated so clearly in her entirely voluntary brag-post on facebook to which it the media is responding.

I agree that the hatred has gotten out of control and is being misdirected at targets without verifying that they have any connection to this incident, and also that many people are basing their venom on inaccurate information about the threat Harambe posed to the child because most of the media accounts use an edited version of the video that makes Harambe appear exclusively gently with the child.

That said, suggesting that her voluntary facebook post outing herself, prior to the media frenzy, was a response to being under siege, rather than the trigger for the siege, lacks a similar connection to the actual facts.

[braddy]

167. Nonsense, the woman and child came under attack instantly, and she put out a statement

which shouldn't have been needed at all.

The overwrought reaction of hate and attacks to this near death of a child and his rescue, is disturbing.

[Ms. Toad]

178. You are clearly reading a very different statement than I am.

She was not identified AT ALL, prior to her facebook post, a post that was visible ONLY to her friends - not to the media. Sharing it more broadly than her personal friends was not her intent, based on the audience she tagged for her post. To the extent it reached the media, that was her friends' choice - not hers. She is till not formally identified by most news reports.

I agree that the extreme hate is disturbing. But I also find pretending that her tone-deaf post to her FB friends wasn't a catalyst for the intensity of the response disturbing, as well.

[braddy]

181. The timeline of ID doesn't matter, she was under siege and responded with a reasonable mom statement

to her being turned into a national pariah and her son's surviving a horrible experience being mocked and even his living over the animal's life being attacked, she is not required to try and go into hiding.

This woman is just a normal mom, she can live openly, and hopefully she and her son are not in danger over the way some fringe people are reacting to this incident.

This shows how much our society has degenerated over the decades, this a mom, and a 4 year old boy who survived an encounter with a wild animal.

[Ms. Toad]

187. It certainly does matter, since in the post I initially responded to you claimed

she introduced nothing - that she was responding to something that, in reality, her first-in-time voluntary statement was a catalyst for creating.

Posting that announcement on social media, publicly identifying herself, and the consequencesof calling attention to herself in that incredibly tone-deaf way are on her.

[braddy]

188. LOL, she was the recipient of a national attack on her and her boy, she is the mom of a boy

who almost died this week and who was saved by animal experts at the city zoo and she posted a response to the news coverage and the public.

Move on with your life.

[Ms. Toad]

190. Now you're backtracking and are claiming she's just responding again.

Careful reading of her actual words, the audience she addressed it to, and bit of logic based around timing would serve you well.

[braddy]

191. She was responding, you forget that she is the mom who is the subject of the attacks and put downs

and speculations and even people saying that her boy's life should have been forfeited for the animal's.

Look at how you are attacking her, and for what, saying something? Why shouldn't she she speak out in her defense, or to try to defuse the hatred directed at her and her child.

[Ms. Toad]

198. Read her actual facebook comment. Look at when she posted it. Look at who she was speaking to.

You are building an entire scenario into her facebook post that just isn't there. Time runs in one direction. It is impossible for her to respond to something that has not happened yet. No one knew who she was until AFTER she posted on facebook, revealed her identity to her friends, and her friends shared screen captures.

I don't think "attack" means what you think it means if you think I am attacking her by pointing out to you that (1) she initiated the media conversation rather than responding to it as you have repeatedly claimed and (2) when you, as an adult, choose to make a post on social media, you accept the consequences of that choice.

[braddy]

200. I'm not building anything, I have no idea why you are obsessed with this simple rescue story.

This is a very weird thread.

[jberryhill]

49. Please tell her God to keep her kids out of animal enclosures

Thank you.

[braddy]

50. This is truly a childish thread.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

55. Oh, boo hoo

We get it. "Shit happens!!!" is your mantra.

[pintobean]

63. It's a contest

who can be the smallest?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

71. Well while you're apparently in your own contest as to who can be the most smug and...

...holier-than-thou, how are we being "small"? Please, explain.

[pintobean]

74. I'm not holier than anyone

and you shouldn't be accusing anyone of being smug.


Btw - is this another case of me stalking you?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

77. Well, you do always seem to be around. So, please explain how I'm being small with my...

...view of the use of "God" at times like this...and football games and NASCAR races?

[pintobean]

79. It's not a special occasion for some.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

81. Please explain how I am being small because I have my doubts that "God" happened to be at...

..the Cincinatti Zoo on this holiday weekend?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

83. Also, since we're talking and all, HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO RESPOND TO MY POST HIDDEN IN JANUARY? nt

[ChisolmTrailDem]

97. Please explain how I'm being small and PLEASE EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING POST:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1881640

[ChisolmTrailDem]

65. How so? nt

[Jim Beard]

255. I agree, there have been times I have said, "Thank God" after the end of a stressful situation and

I am also0 an athiest. Just habit.

[stone space]

59. Perhaps God can make gorilla cages childproof, since mere mortals appear incapable of doing so.

Please tell her God to keep her kids out of animal enclosures

[christx30]

133. The kid wasn't almost killed.

I saw the video of when the kid was down there. The gorilla wasn't attacking the boy. It was helping the kid to his feet. The gorilla was touching the kid for at least 45 seconds. If he'd wanted to kill the kid, he would have done it easily. The people in the balcony were yelling down and freaking out the gorilla. He was protecting the kid. The killing was totally unnecessary.
I hope the parents are billed 100% for the replacement of the beautiful creature.

[braddy]

139. He was dragging the kid violently, and his handling alone could maim/kill the kid.

The zoo experts read the situation and did not watch edited video to make their decision to kill their valued animal to save a life, as they say, there was no other way.

[passiveporcupine]

171. He was not violentlly dragging the kid

He was dragging the kid the way he would have dragged one of his own babies from danger.

He was not being viscious. The only reason the zoo had to kill him is because of his size and strength. He could have accidentally hurt the child. The boy got some scrapes from being dragged, and other than that, the only injury was a concussion from his fall into the enclosure.

I understand why the zoo killed gorilla, but I feel so badly for them, because they had to do it to make sure the child was not accidentally hurt...not because the gorilla was trying to harm the child.

[braddy]

175. Yes, violently, regardless of his intentions it was violent and harming the boy, and could have

led to dismemberment and death in the flash of a second, regardless of the animal's intent.

The expert said that the Gorilla was also becoming more agitated.

[passiveporcupine]

182. He was dragging the child "roughly" for the age, condition, and breed of the child

compared to the size, weight, and strength of the gorilla. Dragging him violently sounds like the gorilla didn't care if the kid was hurt. He simply responded the same way he would have if one of his own babies was crying in the water. He didn't know he could hurt the kid doing that.

Sorry, but violently is just the wrong word. The kid could have been hurt badly by it, but was only scraped.

Of course he was becoming more agitated. They should have gotten the screaming crowd out of there right away. The only reason the gorilla dragged the kid away was to get him to safety (like out of the water and away from the screaming humans).

His act of trying to save the kid was too rough for a human child that size, but he didnt know that.

[Act_of_Reparation]

197. There's no way to tell what the gorilla was thinking or what it was planning to do with the child.

It might have been treating it like one of its own children, or it might have been toying around with it before dismembering it with its bare hands. Male gorillas don't usually like caring for children that don't belong to them. In fact, they usually kill them.

[passiveporcupine]

201. In the wild that can be true, but not always

Some males are more aggressive than others. The caretakers at this zoo did not seem to think this gorilla was dangerous, or treating the kid like he was going to tear him limb from limb. They did what they did because he could have easily hurt the child seriously (or killed him) while not even intending to.

In the wild, gorillas don't stand around with the young ones they are going to kill. They just charge when they see them and kill them. At least from all the videos I've seen. But the woman who filmed this event saw things the way I did.

A visitor who recorded the harrowing moments after a 3-year-old boy fell into the gorilla exhibit at the Cincinnati Zoo said Sunday that the hulking ape appeared to be more of a gentle giant — protecting the child before the animal was shot dead.

"I don't know if the screaming did it or too many people hanging on the edge, if he thought we were coming in, but then he pulled the boy down away further from the big group," Kim O'Connor, who shot the video, told NBC station WLWT.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/killed-gorilla-seemed-protect-child-who-fell-enclosure-witness-n582311

[Act_of_Reparation]

261. That may be the case, but the point is...

... there's no way to predict what the gorilla wanted from the child, or what the gorilla would have done if someone went into the pen to take the child from him. Even if the gorilla wasn't shaking the boy around, the zoo would still have to consider those two issues in choosing a course of action.

At the end of the day, shooting the animal is probably safest for the child under most circumstances.

[Ms. Toad]

151. You have not seen unedited version of the video.

Last edited Mon May 30, 2016, 04:55 PM - Edit history (1)

The portion in most of the news reports shows just what you suggest. I was initially all I could find, and given the wild interpretation of videos by DU in the past year or two, I initially had the same impression as you - that anyone claiming he was at risk was greatly exaggerating.

The longer version of the video that I eventually found, though, shows the child being dragged rapidly through the water by one limb for a significant distance at least twice (possibly three times - hard to tell because the vantagepoint changes). Harambe was not trying to hurt the child - most likely he was moving the child to a place that seemed to him to be less threatened by the screaming crowds.

I think they should have cleared the area faster, and Harambe might have gotten less frantic without a perceived threat. But, directed at the child or not, Harambe's panic/protective instincts were actually threatening to the child especially given the rocky nature of the moat, undetermined injuries from falling 15 feet in the first place, and children's inability to breath underwater.

[passiveporcupine]

176. agreed

I think they should have cleared the area faster, and Harambe might have gotten less frantic without a perceived threat. But, directed at the child or not, Harambe's panic/protective instincts were actually threatening to the child especially given the rocky nature of the moat, undetermined injuries from falling 15 feet in the first place, and children's inability to breath underwater.

I didn't see the longer version that showed him being dragged, but you could tell even in the short version, the way he was touching the child, he was not acting vicious. But my first thought when it looked like he was going to drag him, was the kid might accidentally drown.

[mnhtnbb]

184. I had to search for the unedited version, too.

IF, big if, someone in that crowd had the presence of mind to shut everyone up--stop the yelling/screaming--Harambe might have just
stood over the kid, monitoring him, until a zookeeper could have gotten to the scene.

Once Harambe started dragging the kid around, the script was set in motion. He must have been responding to the hysteria of the crowd.

So sad. So very sad.

[JPnoodleman]

43. What would you think she should say "Oh if only they let the gorilla kill my kid!"

Sorry, some people don't hate children enough as the Child Free crowd.

[elljay]

53. No, but

What about, "I am so sorry for the incident that occurred at the zoo. My attention was distracted for a moment and my child climbed into the gorilla enclosure. The zoo staff concluded that the only way to save my son's life was to kill the gorilla. I am very saddened at the death of the gorilla and apologize for our part in this incident. I am starting a fund in Harambe's honor to support the protection of endangered gorillas. Please consider making a contribution."

I think this would have gone a long way...

[saltpoint]

57. Indeed. eom

[ChisolmTrailDem]

66. Absolutely perfect response...if only. Thank you, elljay. nt

[JPnoodleman]

78. Most mom's don't have speech writers and value their kids over a gorilla. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

164. It does not require a speech writer to have some self-awareness,

and express remorse for the death of an animal that was killed to save your child, nor does it required that you value the gorilla over your child to express that sentiment.

The issue isn't the eloquence with which she expressed herself - it is that her expression is completely devoid of any expression of sorrow or remorse for her role in the death of this living creature.

[JPnoodleman]

230. This may be hard to accept,

But most people place zero value on that gorilla's life when it almost killed their kid.

This living creature nearly ripped her kid apart, she gives zero fucked that its dead now.

[Ms. Toad]

236. That is a gross mischaracterization of the interactions between the two.

Objectively, her child was released from the hospital the same day with no more than a concussion from falling into the pit. So no, the gorilla did not "nearly rip{} her kid apart."

The gorilla was, by all appearances, trying to protect the child from the screaming mob. It did move the child quickly about the enclosure to areas farther from the screaming mob by dragging it through the water. But there was no "ripp{ing}" or almost killing the child.

Yes, those acts were life-threatening - but only because they were moving quickly through a moat (potential for inhaling water) that had hard walls (potential for banging his head or limbs) and the gorilla was panicked by humans who were acting like fools.

Regardless of how real her fear was, the fact that she did no more than tell her child no when he expressed an intention to go swimming with the gorillas was a direct contributor to the death of the gorilla - and she should be remorseful about the consequences of her actions. I would certainly be remorseful if my actions contributed to the need to destroy an animal.

[JPnoodleman]

241. Do you have children?

That is how you read it, The kid was in danger, the mother cares for her kid infinitely more than a gorilla that could have easily killed her kid.

If you don't have kids this might be hard to grasp, but the health of ones child is a primal concern to parents.

Likewise, was she supposed to believe her kid could actually get in there? Kids say dumb shit and want to do dumb shit all the time, parent generally don't think such ridiculously unsafe shit is even possible.

Maybe full time cat lady's and the Child Free Euphoric Atheism crowd shouldn't be judging a parents reaction until they actually have kids.

[Ms. Toad]

245. Yes, I do.

And my child has a chronic, life-threatening condition that not only directly threatens her life but also puts her at risk for around a dozen cancers that are generally not detectable until they are too far advanced to be treatable. It has since she was 3 years old.

So feel free to extend an apology for your insulting assumption that anyone who is critical of the mother doesn't have children, and doesn't have a clue what it feels like to have their child's life threatened. I've lived with that threat every day for the past 23 years.

When your child says he is going to go swim with the gorillas you don't just say no and turn your attention to your other children. At a minimum, you pay your full attention to that child until it is clear that the thought has left his mind. Even better, you take your children and move to an area where that temptation doesn't exist. Verbal directions that are not reinforced with redirected attention are not universally effective at that developmental age. As a professional childcare worker, she, better than most parents, should know that and take age appropriate steps to ensure his safety.

[JPnoodleman]

246. I won't,

She did what at most people can expect, yes I am so upset with her with not being psychic and predicting her kid could even follow through with his actions. If we are to expect a single person to take seriously every outlandish request a kid makes then jesus christ, might as well wrap all kids in foam and helmets and padding and never let them out of their safety space.

Kids ask to do dumb stuff, usually that stuff isn't even possible.

[Ms. Toad]

248. The requested apology was for your insulting assumptions about people who disagree with you

Not for the disagreement. Feel free to keep your opinion - different people have different opinions.

But it is insulting for you to assume that anyone who disagrees with you about parental responsibilities must not be a parent, and must not have any experience with having their child's life threatened.

For that you owe me an apology. Not that I'll be holding my breath waiting for it.

[JPnoodleman]

251. Different people have ridiculous opinions....

Between the /r/atheism level fury that this lady is thanking her God for her child being alive after a terrifying near death experience, to the mere fact that her kid got into a gorilla exhibit and now we all have decided we are going to crucify the woman for not having divine foresight (Which I thought as good fedora clad atheists nobody believed was possible for by Carl Sagan's hammer and Tysons Shield such things are impossible! Thus sayeth Nye!)

What parent, before this incident happened would naturally assume their kid could even get in there even if they didn't listen to their parents and tried it? She told the kid NO, I guess she was supposed to be psychic.

Considering CPS isn't on her ass for being THE WORST MOTHER EVER! and I don't even think the zoo plans to ban her from going..... IDK what we are doing here except a public shaming ritual for shit that she couldn't have foreseen, but Thank you Captain Hindsight! for you 20/20 vision into the past to tell someone what they did wrong, if only you had been there before hand your expert magical level mothering could have prevented all this!

[Ms. Toad]

258. Again, the requested apology is not because you disagree with me.

You owe me an apology for the insulting assumption you expressed - in a very disparaging manner - that because I disagree with your opinion I could not possibly be a parent or have ever experienced a threat against my child's life.

How dare you sit on your high horse and proclaim that my disagreement with your opinion can only be based on not having children or never having experienced the potential death of a child. That is highly offensive, especially since I have lived with the possibility that I will lose my child with very little notice every single day for the past 23 years. Thankfully, most parents will never experience that feeling more than a few times over a lifetime - at most.

A disagreement of opinion over how responsible parents should behave is just that. A disagreement of opinion. It is insulting when you dismiss the fear I live with on a daily basis as non-existent merely because we disagree as to whether this woman was behaving in a responsible manner. Again, for that, you owe me an apology.

[alarimer]

84. She is taking no responsibility for what happened.

When she bears the lion's share.

[JPnoodleman]

100. Her only concern is her kid is alive, n/t

[Old Codger]

45. Actually

That same "god" that "saved" him,if it is to believed that he is everywhere all the time, then he also created the original problem... I see this all the time they thank the god for stopping it or for allowing them to survive that storm/tornado/hurricane/earthquake but refuse to blame him/her for being the cause of the situation also...

[saltpoint]

52. Checking Noah's ark manifest...

Birds? Check.

Giraffes? Check.

Dogs and cats? Check.

But how about gorillas?

Uh.... yeah, they're on here too.

Sonofagun.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

56. Thanking God that your child has been spared death hardly makes one a freak

Atheists can be intolerant jerks as much as anyone

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

68. You can change "as much as" to "more than" if you want

Go ahead. I get it.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

72. No - the faithful can be major jerks as well

However, it doesn't make atheists immune from being complete twits at times.

[uppityperson]

76. Thank you, great post. Eom

[jberryhill]

86. Agreed. It is a message to those who lost children that God didn't care about their kids

The ones that are truly hurtful are when a tragedy occurs, many are killed, and the parents of the survivors credit God for saving their children, while leaving the lesser children of lesser parents to ponder why God didn't love them and theirs.

[Nay]

123. YES. That, and the idiotic notion that God could save her boy by causing the gorilla

to be shot, but God couldn't. just. not. let. the. kid. fall. in. That sort of cognitive spaghetti is worthy of every bit of scorn thrown at it.

[rusty fender]

60. What kind of an idiot doesn't hold onto

her 4 year-old's hand in public spaces Jeebus! A trolling child-molester could have easily picked him up!

She's a fucking asshole idiot, whatever her religion is

[onecaliberal]

61. The Gorilla was part of her Gods kingdom as well, if she had kept an eye on her kid they'd both

Safe and the gorilla wouldn't have had to die because he was in his enclosure where he was living his life doing nothing to no one.

[TipTok]

67. It's obviously what God wanted...

... and thus she was just part of the great mysterious plan.

[stone space]

64. Who is Jay-sus?

This atheist has never heard of him.

[BuelahWitch]

85. "Jesus" must also have remorse for telling her to have so many children

because now she is too busy with the gaggle to make sure none of them make their way into zoo exhibits.

[dawg]

88. How dare she!

The nerve of that woman, to feel thankful that her child wasn't ripped to pieces by a wild animal.

And the nerve of her for letting him get in there in the first place. Didn't she know that parents are supposed to be 100% perfect guardians of their children, never looking away for even an instant. Without a doubt, anything that ever happens to a child is the parents' fault. Especially the mother.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

89. Besides....it's just a dumb animal!!!! It means about as much as a plastic straw!!!

Oops, did I do your sarcasm bit wrong?

[dawg]

92. It doesn't mean as much as the life of a child, that's for damn sure.

DU never ceases to shock me with its callousness.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

94. Not many if any said it did

But the attitude that the gorilla was as expendable as a candy wrapper and "Hey, shit happens! Get over it everyone!!!" is pretty fucking callous too.

[dawg]

98. Not many, if any, said that either.

The main reaction that I'm seeing here is one of judgement and mockery of the mother. I think it's very unbecoming of supposedly "empathetic" people.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

105. Bullshit

I'm seeing plenty of, not just here but everywhere today, that "This is not up for discussion" and trying to shame folks out of talking about why are putting animals in zoos, why are we letting gawking idiots and their dumbass kids anywhere near them, what the zoo and parents responsibility was....etc. etc.

I suspect the next level will be a lot of "tree hugging librul hippies whining" Facebook posts.

We all love the gorillas and we all cherish them and aren't they so cute and let's put them on display until we fail them and they have to pay the price with their life because it's the easiest way to save our own asses. But just chalk it up to GAAAWWWD and move on amiright?

[dawg]

111. The issue of zoos is one thing, but take that up with the people that run them.

Who knows, we'd probably be on the same side on that issue. This is about a family that nearly suffered a terrible loss, and whether or not we should be subjecting them to judgement and mockery.

[stone space]

231. Folks who are using this incident to display their religious hate-on don't give a shit about...

...any gorilla.

Let's get real.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

99. It sure as fuck does! nt

[dawg]

102. I can't even imagine the way your mind must work.

Mine works differently, I guess.

[pintobean]

141. Yours works normally.

[Orrex]

104. Explain, please.

Are you saying that the animal's life matters as much as the child's? No law on earth agrees with you on that, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a human moral code that agrees with you, when it gets right down to it.

Frankly, I don't even accept that you believe this.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

113. You accept whatever you want to because, frankly, I don't care. The callous disregard for Harambe..

...is disgusting.

Yes, it's important that the child's life be celebrated, and I am thankful the child is still alive. But Harambe deserved to live also. It's very frustrating that he is unable to continue his life because this mother failed to keep an eye on her child and allowed him the time to find a way into that enclosure. And it's especially annoying that "God" gets the credit while there is no acknowledgement of the life that was lost here due to her negligence. Yes, I know accidents and shit happens. Yes, I admit that I'm emotional about the loss of Harambe.

Because, God damn it!!

[Orrex]

127. I haven't seen anyone on DU suggest that the gorilla didn't deserve to live...

So that's obviously not the question.

Instead, the question is this: given the choice between killing the gorilla and standing by while the gorilla killed or grievously injured the child (perhaps inadvertently), which was the better option? And why?

Let us understand that the magical, instantaneous "tranquilizer darts" that many have here suggested do not in fact exist, and that there does not appear to have been a viable option for otherwise restraining or incapacitating the gorilla. Let us understand also that the experienced and professional handlers--charged with responding in exactly this kind of situation--assessed conditions at the time of the event and determined that this outcome was the best--though admittedly tragic--means of protecting the child.

I agree that the loss of this magnificent animal is a tragedy. Appeals to God mean nothing to me, though I imagine it's natural for someone so inclined to invoke God in the wake of a near-fatal accident. It only bothers me when such a person imposes that invocation on someone who doesn't share that belief.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

130. I have no issue with anything you said there. nt

[Orrex]

147. DAMN YOU FOR AGREEING WITH ME!!!!1!

[ChisolmTrailDem]

150. IKR, lol! nt

[brett_jv]

163. Pretty much exactly how I feel ...

I also want to add that PETA & the people putting up 'Justice for (the gorilla)' websites and the like aren't doing this wonderful CAUSE ... any friggin' favors.

There was one option, and one option only ... once the child fell into the enclosure. I am utterly heartbroken and crest-fallen this magnificent animal had to be put down like this ... it's HORRIBLE. But the only thing that would've been worse is if the animal had torn the child to shreds in front of the horrified crowd that included his mother.

And it's not unreasonable for parents to expect that ZOO ENCLOSURES would be 4yo 'proof', my Dog, there's millions of tiny children visiting zoo's at any given moment in the world ... they HAVE to take responsibility for protecting children better than they apparently did in this case.

Obviously parents need to 'watch their children at all times' and everything but you'd have no reason as a parent bringing your kid to the zoo to think that a damn GORILLA enclosure is not properly secured to the point where little kids can't inadvertently just ... fall into them.

That said to me it's just really ridiculous to praise your 'awsome God' as if He ... was responsible for saving your child. That's just babbling insanity to me. If He was 'watching out for your child', why the hell didn't He stop the child from ... ending up in the damn enclosure in the first damn place, HRRMMMMMM? Why didn't He just make the Gorilla run all the way to other end of the enclosure and leave the baby alone until he could be extricated safely without the loss of it's life? Hmmmm?

Derp ...

[saltpoint]

90. There are lots of living things

around. Some are human, some not.

Her feeling thankful for her child's safety misses the point of her ignoring the life of the gorilla. It was a tragic loss having to fell the animal to save the child. She was graceless and trite in her public comment about her "awesome" God. if that's the God she believes in, He made the gorilla as well as her kid.

[dawg]

95. No one is saying it wasn't a tragedy, but just damn.

The woman nearly lost her child. I can't imagine her thinking about anything else until the terror of the situation settles down.

I certainly don't see the need to mock her for her faith.

[TipTok]

114. Nearly lost her own child due to her negligence...

A hint of acceptance of fault would go a long way.

[saltpoint]

168. I'm with the living things exhibit.

All of them.

[pnwmom]

108. And why should she trust that a zoo enclosure was properly built to keep children out?

[Ms. Toad]

166. Especially when the child, by eyewitness accounts, informed the mother of his intention

to go into the gorilla enclosure.

It is a bit easier to excuse when it happens out of the blue, than when the child (at an age when impulse control is pretty much non-existent) point blank tells you what he is going to do and your response is, "No, kiddo, don't do that," and then to turn your back on him.

[MFM008]

93. I still want facts

What was she doing?
Was she on the phone?
Why isn't she being charged for child neglect?
Why don't stupid fuking zoos use a fast acting
Tranquilizer?

[pnwmom]

107. Fact: the zoo's enclosure wasn't 4-year-old-proof. It's surprising this hadn't already happened. nt

[Logical]

120. And they were not paying attention at all. nt

[pnwmom]

125. Child-proof design is supposed to account for a parent's temporary inattention.

No one would do child-proofing if it was possible to pay full attention 100% of the time.

[Logical]

126. Has not happened in years, so I blame the parents. nt

[pnwmom]

134. Some people love to blame parents. It must make them proud of themselves

that they haven't managed to kill one of their own children.

I just feel grateful.

[Logical]

137. Parents should be charged. nt

[passiveporcupine]

179. is there such a thing as a safe and fast acting tranquilizer?

Never heard of that.

[Orrex]

101. The mother didn't kill the gorilla, so the nickname makes no sense.

Equally, your apparent eagerness to blame this situation on her religion makes no sense.


Hey, pick on religion as much as you like, and I'll probably join in. But I don't see how Gregg's religion is of any relevance here.

[gwheezie]

103. I'm an atheist and prefer gorillas to children

But I'm not outraged by this woman's statement. I think anyone attributing any action to god is strange but I'm not bothered by it.

[TexasBushwhacker]

109. I hope she will pray for guidance

to be a better parent and keep her child from going where they shouldn't.

[Oneironaut]

119. Why did God allow her son to fall into the cage?

He sounds incompetent. Can we hire a new God? This one seems rather careless, fixing mistakes after they've already happened by killing an innocent animal who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[vkkv]

121. African gorilla? I'm surprised she didn't say "It's Obama's fault"... NT

[red dog 1]

135. "Accidents happen"??

No, lady, it wasn't an "accident"
it was YOU not watching your 3-year-old boy like you should have been.

It was no accident; it was bad parenting!

[pnwmom]

143. It was bad zoo design. The enclosure couldn't even keep a 4 year old out.

The whole zoo should be inspected for similar design or maintenance flaws.

[bluestateguy]

140. if she was a black welfare mother the county would have already thrown her in jail by now

nt

[Arizona Roadrunner]

146. Some questions

A few questions? Why does the zoo think that a three foot high barrier is high enough? What was the adult to number of children ratio in this situation? Was it a single parent with several kids or were there more than one adult and how many kids in this parental situation?? Does the zoo have a policy regarding having younger children on a leash? If not, why not especially with only three foot high barriers?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

155. I seem to recall a story about three foot barriers and a zoo a few years ago

A guy or a child falling into a tiger enclosure?

Maybe at the San Diego zoo?

[yuiyoshida]

152. Why does this story remind me of this...

[LibDemAlways]

158. How about the responsibility of the zoo to create

child/person proof barriers between the animals and the public? That child should never have been able to slip into the gorilla habitat in the first place -- whether or not the mother was briefly inattentive. Clearly a design flaw.

[brett_jv]

177. Very true ... what's so sad is that there's enough blame to go around for EVERYONE ...

Except the poor animal that had to die ... he did nothing wrong.

And to the people that think for one second the gorilla brought it on himself by dragging the child around ... that really didn't matter. There was NO way any human would've been permitted into the cage to attempt to rescue the boy no matter WHAT the animals demeanor. You cannot trust Male Silverback 450lb gorillas to not harm a person entering their enclosure.

I mean, if the gorilla had been smart enough to run away from the kid and into a building (if it has such a thing in it's enclosure) where it could then been locked up/away from the kid, then yeah. It could've saved itself. But that's the only way the gorilla could've ended up surviving. Not his fault he's not THAT smart (possibly the ability for him to even do so ... doesn't exist).

His dragging the child through the water may've hastened his demise but ultimately the action taken ... was the only solution. A 'rescue' would've been impossible because it'd have involved zoo workers entering the enclosure ... not happening.

[Brickbat]

180. Does it matter?

[pintobean]

189. Looking at the reasoning in this thread

is like watching CCers try to justify their harassment and stalking of DUers.

I'm not a religious person, myself, but it really baffles me how people can hate someone just for their religious beliefs.

[Brickbat]

206. I'm completely at a loss when it comes to the time and energy people are devoting to this story.

I just...what?

[LostOne4Ever]

192. Which has absolutely nothing to do with this. nt

[Monk06]

193. Why should she have to keep and I on her kid when God is babysittin

and at the link Jack Hanna, who I like, defended the zoo killing Harambe

Jack Hanna is a zoo industry lobbiest That's his job and that's why he was invited on Carson all the time

He is not Dian Fossey

[bluestateguy]

199. Typical Fundie arrogance

Their world view is that God made the Earth for man to rape and pillage, and animals only exist for the use of man.

That's why so many fundy Christians are anti-environment. Because they End Times are coming too! So why bother!

[dilby]

204. Hopefully the zoo will do the right thing and not get another gorilla.

Wild animals should be in the wild not in cages. If you want to see a gorilla use the old Google or go on a safari.

[Warren DeMontague]

210. I don't approve of internet shaming this woman.

I don't care what she believes.

[frankieallen]

211. why was it so easy for a kid to get into the pen in the first place??

keep an eye on your kids so they don't crawl into the lion pen and get eaten!

[SwankyXomb]

227. Kids, like roaches,

can get into anywhere if given the chance.

[840high]

212. So what? I believe

in God.

[Silver_Witch]

213. God had nothing to do with it...as there is no god

This woman's negligence lead to the death of a beautiful creature. God is not awesome if he allowed the destruction of Harambe!

I am disgusted by people who praise god for saving them while that same god lets so many others suffer and die.

Asshats one and all!

[moondust]

215. Irrelevant unless...

she has developed a false sense of security that:

"God Will Take Care Of You"

Be not dismayed what e'er be tide
God will take care of you
Beneath His wings of love abide
God will take care of you

God will take care of you
Through every day, o'er all the way
(He will care for you)
God will take care of you

Through days of toil when heart doth fail
God will take care of you
When dangers fierce your path assail
God will take care of you

God will take care of you
Through every day, o'er all the way
He will care for you
God will take care of you

God will take care of you
Through every day, o'er all the way
He will care for you
God will take care of you

[Odin2005]

218. Who the fuck cares?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

269. Yeah it's just a fucking gorilla, right dude?

Just like it's only a national forest or only the Gulf of Mexico.

The dominionists care the fucking least about "God's creations".

[Odin2005]

270. Right, because every Christian is a Dominionist, HURR DURR!

All you militant atheists are getting pathetic, and I say that as someone who used to be one when I was a stupid teenager.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

271. You need to pray for reading comprehension

Or I could simply engage in your logic and just accuse you of doing a 180 as a "stupid teenager" and now you just hate and rate all atheists as militant. Enjoy your religious privilege.

[Odin2005]

272. I'm a Buddhist, not a Christian, but OK, whatever.

[rug]

220. Of all the (finite) issues this story raises, you, hands down, have picked the most irrelevant.

[Takket]

223. forgive me if this has been discussed

witnesses have said the boy said he wanted to go in the water. the woman said no. Then it says he went through the barrier and fell in. And everyone is blaming her for not watching her kids. But, I haven't seen anything to say how long this was. Was she not watching him for 5 seconds? A minute? 10 minutes? And what were all the other people there looking at? None of them saw this kid climbing through the barrier.

This happened because the barrier is a joke. There should be some kind of plexiglass or a wire mesh behind the railing they can't get through.

[BuelahWitch]

225. He apparently crawled through the barrier, not climbed over it

And why is it someone else's responsibility to watch her kid? Presumably they were watching the gorillas in their disclosure. Bottom line, it's HER FAULT. If your kid is bugging you about going swimming, don't say no then ignore him thinking he will do as you say. Keep an extra eye on him, or get him the hell away from the temptation.

[Tortmaster]

224. God's gonna kill all of the ...

... children in the world eventually. His record over millions of years is excellent in that regard. He doesn't need to act through Gorillas. So, he must be teaching us a lesson about loving him or staying outside of Gorilla enclosures.Thanks, God!

[Lint Head]

237. Jesus pulled the trigger.

[JPnoodleman]

244. is this "/r/atheism?" now? Jesus Christ you people are dense....

Like what was she supposed to be "By the holy spaghetti monster I am so sad they didn't shoot my kid first and teach me to be vegan afterwards!"

[Judi Lynn]

252. Cincinnati Police says parents of 4-year old boy who climbed into Gorilla enclosure may be charged

Cincinnati Police says parents of 4-year old boy who climbed into Gorilla enclosure may be charged

Menard Scott
Staff
14 hours 24 minutes ago

Prosecutors could charge parents of the boy who fell into the enclosure

•Many have blamed the mother and father for 17-year-old Harambe's death
•They released a statement on Sunday saying their boy is doing 'just fine'
•Authorities said boy crawled through railing and fell about 10ft, and spent more than 10 minutes in the enclosure
•Witness heard boy saying he wanted to get in the water, but his mother, who was taking care of several children, told him 'no'
•Boy was taken to hospital with serious but 'non-life threatening' injuries

. . .

A mother who was at the zoo said she tried to stop the child from going into the enclosure but couldn't grab him in time.

Brittany Nicely told WHIO the gorilla was also acting protectively towards the boy and was not behaving in a threatening manner.
. . .

'What the first responders saw, I’m just not sure … They said he was violently throwing the child around, which seems crazy to me.

'They have a picture of the boy sitting in front of the gorilla moments before they shot him.'



More:
http://www.newsgrio.com/latest-news/291956-cincinnati-police-says-parents-of-4-year-old-boy-who-climbed-into-gorilla-enclosure-may-be-charged.html

[CAG]

254. This OP is disgusting; both the religion bashing,

Which is totally a cheap shot, and to call her a gorilla killer is equally appalling.

[Odin2005]

260. The vile, disgusting posts in this thread are why I think "New Atheists" are shitty people.

[leftyladyfrommo]

273. They are racists in a new way.

Just as rude and obnoxious. And really uneducated a lot of times. Most of them really don't know anything about religion except what they read about the super right wingers. Who are also rude, obnoxious and uneducated about religion.

[Odin2005]

274. I agree completely!

I have noticed that a lot of them seem to equate Evangelical Protestant Christian fundamentalism with all religion. When you mention, for example, that none of the great early Christian theologians of the later Roman Imperial period, such as Augustine, were Biblical Literalists they look at you as if you had grown 2 heads.

Something which I think exacerbates the issue is that many of them are from Fundamentalist Evangelical families and still carry those literalist assumptions with them unconsciously even though they have overtly rejected religion.

[braddy]

262. These people are struggling to turn their lives around, why mock them and their faith?

"These are the parents of the four-year-old boy whose 15-feet fall into the gorilla exhibit moat in Cincinnati Zoo resulted in the death of 17-year-old silverback gorilla, Harambe.
Seen here for the first time is mother Michelle Gregg, 32, who has four children by father Deonne Dickerson, 36, a man who, Daily Mail Online can disclose, has a lengthy criminal history.
But in numerous pictures posted on Dickerson's Facebook site in recent years he appears to have turned his life around to become the proud father of four.
Indeed, the majority of his postings to the social media site are updates of his children and his working life.
In others pictures he has uploaded his friends congratulate him and Michelle on the birth of their fourth child last January."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617016/EXCLUSIVE-PICTURES-parents-four-son-fell-zoo-enclosure-sparking-controversial-killing-Harambe-gorilla-emerges-father-lengthy-criminal-history.html



[IMG][/IMG]

[bigwillq]

263. So? I am glad this kid is ok.

I hope it is a lesson learned for both the Mom and the zoo.

[bobthedrummer]

264. Psalm 32

[KamaAina]

265. "Gorilla Killa Mom"?

It was my understanding that the zookeepers murdered killed the gorilla, not the mom.

[cynatnite]

268. So it was Mom who put the bullet to the gorilla?

Wow. Thanks for clearing that up!