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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUS nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks'
From the BBC.
The US nuclear weapons force still uses a 1970s-era computer system and floppy disks, a government report has revealed.
The Government Accountability Office said the Pentagon was one of several departments where "legacy systems" urgently needed to be replaced.
The report said taxpayers spent $61bn (£41bn) a year on maintaining ageing technologies.
It said that was three times more than the investment on modern IT systems.
The report said that the Department of Defence systems that co-ordinated intercontinental ballistic missiles, nuclear bombers and tanker support aircraft "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)Even viruses written for DOS aren't likely to work well on that hardware/software.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Isn't that the whole thing about MAD? Doesn't quite work if one side can steal a march on the other.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Still, as far as I understand it the logic underpinning cold war deterrence for some 50 years or so has rested upon the so-called "Nuclear Triad"; basically, land-based ICBMs or other missiles, Strategic Bombers, and Nuclear-equipped Subs.
The point being, that in the event of an attack- the subs are always out at sea, at least during some parts of the cold war the bombers were always in the air; and the missiles are in hardened silos. Mutual Assured Destruction was predicated on the idea that a surprise attack could never entirely wipe out the other side's nuclear capability. So response time isn't really the main factor. What counts is that the ability to hit back would remain.
Again, as far as I understand it.
Note I'm not suggesting it wouldn't be a good idea to upgrade those outdated systems, if for no other reason than (as people have noted) floppy disks have gotta be pretty hard to find at this point.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Apparently the Treasury is just as bad, using computer systems developed in the 1950s.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Boy, that's gotta be a fucking sight.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Use vellum.
After a reprieve, the UK is to continue printing and storing its laws on vellum, made from calf or goat-skin. But shouldn't these traditions give way to digital storage, asks Chris Stokel-Walker.
Last week the House of Lords decided to end the printing of laws on vellum for cost reasons. But now the Cabinet Office is to provide the money from its own budget for the thousand-year-old tradition to continue.
Vellum lasts a long time. Dig into the archives of the UK's parliament and pull out the oldest extant law and you'll find a very old document. It was first inscribed in 1497.
Over time, ordinary paper can deteriorate rapidly, while vellum is said to retain its integrity for much longer. Original copies of the Magna Carta, signed more than 800 years ago on vellum, still exist.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35569281
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)time.
The missiles in hardened silos are the dangerous part since they are quite likely to get destroyed or heavily damaged in the event of an attack so they operate on a launch on warning system. Since it only takes about 30 minutes for an ICBM to get from here to Russia (or vice versa) we would get less than 30 minutes warning and the president has to decide whether to launch or not and once launched they cannot be recalled. There have been some close calls with things like satellite launches and meteor showers that have caused near launches. I'm of the opinion that ICBMs are a horrible, outdated idea and leave us at major risk of an accidental launch. They are the cheapest part of the triad, though... but we should definitely get rid of them and stick with subs and bombers.
A sub or bomber can be told to linger and "launch in x hours if you have not heard from us"
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Our's don't.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)ly a mistake could be made on a sub or a bomber as well, but it's much less likely.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Ours can go rogue any time they want. I'm not saying it's a good thing. Apparently the protocol is being unable to pick up the BBC World Service for three days in a row. Then they can nuke whoever they want. Let's hope there's not a strike at the BBC.
pstokely
(10,530 posts)nt
Jeffersons Ghost
(15,235 posts)Monk06
(7,675 posts)Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Systems become obsolete all the time. And it's not just the American military that's fallen foul.
It was meant to be a showcase for Britain's electronic prowess - a computer-based, multimedia version of the Domesday Book. But 16 years after it was created, the £2.5 million BBC Domesday Project has achieved an unexpected and unwelcome status: it is now unreadable.
The special computers developed to play the 12in video discs of text, photographs, maps and archive footage of British life are - quite simply - obsolete.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/mar/03/research.elearning
Monk06
(7,675 posts)We have the Dream Time from the Australian Aboriginals
Perhaps the first flood epic to survive and be completely orally transmitted
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)And seen the film, at the end there's a nod to Bradbury as one of the books being committed to memory is The Martian Chronicles.
Monk06
(7,675 posts)Whales, Dolphins, Elephants not to mention primates such as Orangutans, who ancient Sumatrans considered to be another, albeit, tree dwelling species of humans like themselves
They called them the People of the Trees and accorded them equal respect
History is recorded orally or by imitation and modern electronic recording will be dug up by future
archaeologists as just inert deposits of synthetic materials All the memory they contained lost
If you want someone to remember your past do like the Egyptians, carve it in stone and let the sands bury and protect it
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)If the Rosetta stone had not been unearthed we would still be at a loss about a lot of ancient Egypt. If the Muslims hadn't secured the library at Alexandria we would know nothing of Greek philosophy.
There's still so much we don't know about the people who built Stonehenge.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Do you have a cite that captures this otherwise?
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)They're as different and diverse as any other group. Try to avoid thinking that relies on over generalisation and stereotyping. This is also from Wikipedia, and I've actually given a link. (So much better than vague references that pander to America's Islamophobia, don't you think?)
Arab logicians had inherited Greek ideas after they had invaded and conquered Egypt and the Levant. Their translations and commentaries on these ideas worked their way through the Arab West into Spain and Sicily, which became important centers for this transmission of ideas.
The first period of transmission during 8th and 9th centuries was preceded by a period of conquest, as Arabs took control of previously Hellenized areas such as Egypt and Syria in the 7th century. At this point they first began to encounter Greek ideas, though from the beginning, many Arabs were hostile to classical learning. Because of this hostility, the religious Caliphs could not support scientific translations. Translators had to seek out wealthy business patrons rather than religious ones. Until Abassid rule in the 8th century, however, there was little work in translation. Most knowledge of Greek during Umayyad rule was gained from those scholars of Greek who remained from the Byzantine period, rather than through widespread translation and dissemination of texts. A few scholars argue that translation was more widespread than is thought during this period, but theirs remains the minority view.
Abbasids
The main period of translation was during Abbasid rule. The 2nd Abassid Caliph Al-Mansur moved the capital from Damascus to Baghdad. Here he founded the great library with texts containing Greek Classical texts. Al-Mansur ordered this rich fund of world literature translated into Arabic. Under al-Mansur and by his orders, translations were made from Greek, Syriac, and Persian, the Syriac and Persian books being themselves translations from Greek or Sanskrit.
Owing to the legacy of the 6th century King of Persia, Anushirvan (Chosroes I) the Just had introducing many Greek ideas into his kingdom. Aided by this knowledge and juxtaposition of beliefs, the Abassids considered it valuable to look at Islam with Greek eyes, and to look at the Greeks with Islamic eyes. Abassid philosophers also pressed the idea that Islam had from the very beginning stressed the gathering of knowledge as important to the religion. These new lines of thought allowed the work of amassing and translating Greek ideas to expand as it never before had.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Classics
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)fascinating bit of information, the local native American tribes have an oral history of the eruption event. Which took place about 9,000 years ago.
Amazing stuff.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)that more modern storage methods couldn't have passed it yet.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)And digital infrastructure is no different. If there's budgetary considerations it can be quite tempting to opt for "That'll do for now."
Recursion
(56,582 posts)"It's working now, don't touch it!"
spinbaby
(15,090 posts)I worked for the last company to stock parts for Token Ring networks. We sold the stuff mainly to the government and Sears.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Probably the same place the money Rummy said was missing on 9/10/01 (something like $9 Trillion) went.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Whether they're carried out by America or America's proxy.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)The 8in floppy can't be hidden in a pocket the way a thumb drive might.
I imagine the replacement system would take 2-3 years to write and get approval on the specification and another 5 yrs to fully deploy the 2016 Hardened Mil-Spec Technology. Such that in 2024 you could have a 2016 Mil Spec system that performs about like a 2012 performance system.
hunter
(38,325 posts)kairos12
(12,869 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Those aging systems can take a grenade and keep on working.
maxrandb
(15,348 posts)I would imagine that there is no one alive today that would be able to "hack" it!