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Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)with their universal health care, maternity leave, generous social benefits, plenty of vacation time, and higher taxes on the rich.
rug
(82,333 posts)branford
(4,462 posts)It's just like how the Chinese "communists" discovered the only way to bring hundreds of millions of their people out of poverty was to adopt capitalist models (hopefully democracy will soon follow).
Of course, you're still free to admire the glorious socialism of Venezuela where food, medicine and toilet paper are scarce and the murder rate is ridiculous, all while sitting on the world's largest proven oil reserves, or even pine for the old repressive Soviet Union, although the vast majority of the people who actually lived through it will treat you like you're crazy, if not downright evil.
rug
(82,333 posts)The decay of China shows capitalism is as adaptable and intransigent as a bacterium. It remains a bacterium nonetheless.
You can put your last paragraph back in the drawer next to the Reagan-Bush stickers.
branford
(4,462 posts)Have you been asleep for the last few decades as China has become a world power and elevated hundreds of millions of its citizens out of abject poverty under capitalism. They've performed miracles, and the only great regret is that political liberalism and democracy has not accompanied their economic progress.
Based upon your last comment, I shall assume you actually still believe in the Venezuelan glorious socialist revolution that's rapidly starving its people despite incredible natural resources (and replacing right-wing oligarchs with purportedly left-wing oligarchs) and do indeed miss the old Soviet Union and its apparatchiks. Or, maybe you just blame all the "rich capitalists" in the west for the long list of historical failures of socialist and communist experiments.
Also, just as a reminder, you do realize that the Democratic Party unquestionably supports capitalism, and except for a tiny fringe, the farthest left we go as a political party would be the capitalism of the social democracies of Scandinavia? In fact, per you avatar, note that there is an American Communist party, and it likely better suits your beliefs.
rug
(82,333 posts)The former is capitalism. The latter its results.
I like the redbaiting in your last paragraph. The internet version of sweat.
branford
(4,462 posts)were better off before China's economic liberalism?
Capitalism is precisely what has elevated untold numbers of Chinese out of rampant rural poverty. Communism already failed, as is always the case. There were always privileged oligarchs, whether Communist Party apparatchiks or the new industrialists. Only now, under capitalism, ever increasing numbers of Chinese have higher standards of living, better education, access to modern medicine, etc.
Apparently, to you, abject poverty is preferred so long as everyone is dirt poor.
rug
(82,333 posts)If you want to seriously compare all the various strata that compose a society, examine all of those strata, economic and non-economic, in the 25 years before and after 1990, the year the Shanghai Stock Market was formed.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)That doesn't help make a case that they were 'far better off'.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)since 1936 in presidential races. They will endorse and support Hillary when she becomes the nominee of the Democratic Party in 2016 too.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)A monkey grabbing a banana has a capital of one banana. But in the animal kingdom too, members of the group understand they have a vested interest to see their group thrive as it contributes to their own protection. Hence, the group will help out the monkey who was out of luck finding bananas. These mechanisms are well explained in ethology, and nicely summarized by Richard Dawkins's book title: the selfish gene.
This all tends toward social democracy, capitalism with a safety net.
While total rejection of capitalism is more probably an artificial construct.
As noted by a famous ethologist, marxism only works for ants (caveat: they have a queen)
http://www.froes.dds.nl/WILSON.htm
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)It is a product of modern human society. Presumably, according to the logically and morally flawed ideology used to rationalize it, it is the default method for distributing resources, goods and services. The reality is, it is much more effective at concentrating wealth as a means for the elites of human society to enrich themselves from the working-class. The fraudulent nature of capitalism and it's unsustainability are revealed every time public revenue is used to subsidize or 'bail out' market economics.
Characterizing the organization of Monkey society as capitalism is just so much nonsense.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)It is the accumulation of capital which allows for investment which fosters technical progress.
The reason societies became wealthy on coastlines and along large rivers is that it made for faster transport of goods, acceleration rotation of capital. And in turn, the poorer of wealthier nations were richer than the poorer of countries where such accumulation of capital had not occurred.
Reciprocally, societies which sought to level all differences through collective appropriation of the production means all failed. The latest example being Venezuela.
¡El Reformismo, Siempre!
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)smaller, weaker, less successful countries to keep from failing.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)Empires are built with labor and resources, not the magical incantations of capitalism.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Who have they invaded recently?
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)What would be surprising, would be if they weren't "successful".
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)How do you replace capital markets and retain innovation?
How do you replace markets?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)So far the results have not been promising.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Marx does an excellent job identifying the problems with capitalism, but a very poor job of establishing viable alternatives. Regardless of what Marx said, and item's value cannot be determined solely from the amount of actual labor it took to produce it.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)I'm sure those were drawn by someone who doesn't like capitalism, and I'm sure you can find clever drawings about every economic system humans have ever come up with by people who disagree with a given economic system. Of course if you agree with a given system, you'll accentuate the positives of it.
Unfortunately, we all see what we want to see. That's why nobody can agree on anything.
