DU Administrators you have a hard job and I appreciate you guys!!!

[rbrnmw]

Last edited Mon May 16, 2016, 02:47 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=10321

Allow me to be perfectly clear: The current system of moderating here on DU is done. It completely failed, and I take full responsibility for that. Yes, we are still using it, but we have already signed its death warrant. We have a completely new system and we are going to insist on some standards.

The only reason we haven't unveiled the new system yet is because the primaries are the worst possible time to make a change like that -- the people who don't like the new system (and there will be plenty of them) would frame their opposition as a partisan act in support of their favored candidate, and all the rabid partisans on their side would believe it. People on both sides are so polarized and so primed to believe any story that puffs up their candidate and tears down the other that it would be impossible to make any serious change and make it stick.

Once the primaries are over, we are all on the same side again. Anyone who isn't on the same side was never supposed to be here in the first place. And anyone who persists in disrupting this site -- no matter what side they're on -- will no longer be welcome.

[Renew Deal]

1. Who got tomstoned?

[rbrnmw]

2. lol

nobody, the Primary season has to be stressful for them

[Jackie Wilson Said]

4. Especially knowing what is at stake. People poo poo the effectiveness of propaganda on Democratic

Underground, but the right wing, GOP, Karl Rove, anti Hillary propaganda here is seen by one hundred persons for each one person who posts here, something like that.

Then this garbage is repeated out THERE in the real world.

Allowing right wing lies, exaggerations, bullshit to be repeated over and over and over and over here, is harmful to the liberal cause and all decent human beings on planet earth.

[rbrnmw]

6. from what I understand they are making big changes in June

[Jackie Wilson Said]

7. I just got that answer in ask the admins. Problem is money, and I say this as someone who

would also want to maximize profits as owner here.

If the Bob (Bernie or bust) are kicked off, many non Bob will go on their own.

Translates to less advertising dollars here.

My only concern is allowing continued negative stuff about Hillary, true or not, given the alternative is beyond unthinkable.

The alternative does likely mean the end of life, all life.

Think about it


http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/nuclear-arsenals/

[rbrnmw]

8. I think many of us would pay more to not see nasty attacks

on Democrats.

[realmirage]

10. Many of us Hillary supporters are leaving either way

Allowing the attacks on Hillary... A principled person would have let the site die rather than allow the kind of dem bashing that has occurred

[Jackie Wilson Said]

11. You cant do that. I am a Bernie voter, have known of and followed him almost as long as some

of his fans have been alive, but I plead with Hillary supporters that if she wins the nomination, please continue to work on GOTV.

Some are simply too selfish, childish, immature and uncaring and will not help us stop Drumpf, but I have to believe most are not like this.

[realmirage]

12. Have you seen gdp? An admin that allows

that shit and calls the place democratic... Why should a person looking for reasonable, healthy dialogue with fellow democrats want to choose this place to hang out?

This place won't sway the election. So it's not that important that we stay

[Jackie Wilson Said]

13. Not here necessarily but out there you need to stay engaged, GOTV.

[realmirage]

14. Oh I will, don't worry : )

[cwydro]

34. Please. You've not been a member very long.

I'm a Hillary supporter, and I'm perfectly content with what the admins decide to do.

I think I understand what they did with the amnesty. If nothing else, it showed a lot of us one thing - who on this board simply cannot be civil.

Those who hate the site can leave. Why are you still here?

[Andy823]

36. Exactly.

There are trouble makers on both sides, and as you said, the showed their true agenda by continuing to cause problems. I also agree that those who don't like it here can go, they are not being forced to stay and keep on causing problems.

[pintobean]

32. You've been here a little over a month

and have racked up 8 hidden posts. I'm sure you'll be missed.

[Duckhunter935]

51. Another April account

I heard Brock will stop paying in June. I think many April accounts will go away.

[joshcryer]

5. They haven't even got started.

[Renew Deal]

9. That's for sure

[libodem]

3. Where's the Grave dance?

[realmirage]

15. I certainly do not appreciate the chaos

and hostility toward the Democratic Party. If this place can't be for democrats it should die out.

[rbrnmw]

16. see this post in AtA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=10321

Allow me to be perfectly clear: The current system of moderating here on DU is done. It completely failed, and I take full responsibility for that. Yes, we are still using it, but we have already signed its death warrant. We have a completely new system and we are going to insist on some standards.

The only reason we haven't unveiled the new system yet is because the primaries are the worst possible time to make a change like that -- the people who don't like the new system (and there will be plenty of them) would frame their opposition as a partisan act in support of their favored candidate, and all the rabid partisans on their side would believe it. People on both sides are so polarized and so primed to believe any story that puffs up their candidate and tears down the other that it would be impossible to make any serious change and make it stick.

Once the primaries are over, we are all on the same side again. Anyone who isn't on the same side was never supposed to be here in the first place. And anyone who persists in disrupting this site -- no matter what side they're on -- will no longer be welcome.

[realmirage]

17. Not convincing. The BS moderator asked him to call it weeks ago

And yet right now the dem bashing thrives all over this site. He can rationalize all he wants. The damage is done and continues. This isn't a place for healthy democrats to hang as things stand right now. I think a lot of people will stay permanently at the new forums we've found

[truebrit71]

18. ...and yet here you are, still posting...

[realmirage]

19. And he equates the nastiness on both sides

They are not equal. The difference is Hillary supporters are attacking the vicious negativity and Bernie himself, while bsers are attacking the entire Democratic Party, demonizing Hillary, quoting Fox News, and openly hoping trump wins. Those two things are not equal.

[rbrnmw]

21. Some of us have been here for years and it's like a family

right now the family is dysfunctional hopefully after the Primaries that will change

[truebrit71]

23. Been here since '02....don't think I've ever seen it this bad...

...the Clinton camp has been more vicious and spiteful than when she lost to Obama...and that is saying something..

[6000eliot]

41. I won't notice when the Bernie Bros go, because I have all that I can find on ignore.

I trash all the anti-Hillary attack threads without even reading them. It's a much more pleasant place that way. Funny, though, I see ZERO of these supposed vicious attacks on Sanders.

[truebrit71]

46. Riiiiiiight....

[closeupready]

24. Thanks for this. It's enlightening that Skinner HAS noticed the abusive pattern

of some members who were given an amnesty (benefit of the doubt), and then later betrayed that vote of confidence by "doubling-down" on the bad behavior that gave rise to the initial hide, in the first place. !

I was beginning to wonder if he actually supported all that crap; glad to see he does NOT.

[Scootaloo]

28. I'm not so sure

I mean it's nice that he's finally acknowledging the problem... but the problem was obvious the very day he instituted the new policy. It's been a problem since. And he's clearly got no intent to address the problem until after the trolls' work is done. There was no damn reason to completely trash the alert system, except to allow trolls free reign.

[closeupready]

29. While I don't entirely agree, I do share your disappointment

in what seems to have become a kind of downgrade in experience here.

[Scootaloo]

30. I'm something of a pessimist

It amazes me that Discussionist is actually a better community than DU right now. The place I used to call Disgustingus.

[rbrnmw]

38. I take it they have the 5 hides rule in place over there?

[QC]

62. Did you happen to notice

how neatly the troll amnesty coincided with the start of Brock's Army 'o Trolls project.

I'm sure it was purely coincidental and everything, but it's pretty remarkable nonetheless.

[Scootaloo]

63. And how nothing will be done until after the primary is decided, even though the problem is noted?

Why no, I didn't notice at all. What in heavens name are you implying?

[QC]

65. Oh, I'm not implying anything, of course.

Just Asking Questions is all.

[Democat]

43. Anyone who attacks Sanders or Clinton

Outside of the Primaries forum should have their posts hidden and they should be banned if they keep doing it.

Most of us come here to support Democrats, not attack them.

People who hate Democrats, many of them pro-Trump trolls, are being allowed to ruin the website lately.

[uppityperson]

22. I look forward to the changes and thank Admin for this place

[LanternWaste]

25. I look forward to the self-fulfilling prophecies made by posters who claim any tombstone...

I look forward to the self-fulfilling prophecies made by posters who claim any tombstone is indicative of a purge. That bit of hysterical screeching is a real hoot!

[arcane1]

26. "they all chose to double-down on their bad behavior"

Exactly.

Being a troll/disruptor and being an alleged Clinton supporter are not mutually exclusive. And there are at least three in that list who are definitely trolls.

Excellent response by Skinner

[cwydro]

44. I don't know who is or isn't a troll.

But I have no sympathy for anyone who can't just be civil when discussing whatever it may be.

I'm kind of glad that Skinner instituted the temporary amnesty; it really brought out the true character of some people here.

[closeupready]

48. So WHY is their status STILL "Flagged For Review"? He reviewed them.

Pizza. End of story. What am I missing?

[Rex]

27. It is not Skinners fault imo, some here rigged the system from the beginning.

Found a way to alert stalk others into early retirement, even when the admins said it wasn't happening...looks like they admit now it was happening.

IMO, the admins thought too highly of us and gave us something based on the honor system. That was a mistake.

[rbrnmw]

31. +1

[pintobean]

33. We've proven that we need a baby sitter.

[closeupready]

35. You may; I don't.

[pintobean]

40. You and I are both part of we.

I don't need one either, but we do.

[closeupready]

47. Fundamentally disagree that I need it either personally or as part of this group.

Skinner already conceded that at least 7 of those who were given the 5-hide amnesty (in his words) "doubled down" on their bad behavior. Clearly, there are trolls on this board who do not get along with others or worse, are stirring shit up, and this is one of the very few times over 12 years here that I've said so.

Separately, if he knows they are trolls, why are they 'flagged for review'? He reviewed them. They are trolls. Yet, what, he's going to let them come back to continue to needle those of us who joined here in good faith?

I have to be honest and tell you, this last bit is really bothering me. If you KNOW they are trolls, PPR them. Period.

[rbrnmw]

37. something has to give in all seriousness.

[herding cats]

39. Sadly, you can't leave people on a politically themed message board to self moderate.

At least not one geared toward members of a specific party. Or, so I've come to realize. There will always be jerks who don't like what you've got going on who come in and try and gank what you have.

I don't blame the admin for having too much faith in their core followers here to not need deeply entrenched rules, and firm structure. I think by and large they had that part mostly right. Their mistake was not allowing for the people who would come in and successfully game the system at times like now, in my opinion.

I still love this place, and I deeply enjoy the majority of the people I've talked to here. No matter what, we're more alike than we are different, and I've learned a lot about people from areas not like mine. Which was something I was lacking in when I first read here.

The admin will be the bad guys to some no matter what. I, personally, don't blame them for planning to implement rules to take control over something they've spent the past 16-years of their lives creating. Think about it, that's a serious chunk of their lives they've dedicated to running this place. It is theirs after all to do with as they see best.

I wouldn't mind it being more civil, and less influenced by some who it at times seems want to rip it apart at the seams.

[Democat]

42. People who attack Democrats are ruining this website

This site is in deep trouble if it continues to let anti-Democrats hide posts by Democrats.

This site was created for Democrats.

If you bash Sanders or Clinton outside of the Primaries forum, you deserve to be banned or at least called out. Under the current system, people posting attacks on Democrats and helping Donald Trump are running wild.

There should be a simple rule that anyone attacking Sanders or Clinton outside of the Primaries forum has their posts hidden and eventually banned.

[aikoaiko]

45. Epic smackdown. Thank you for posting.

[melman]

49. No Kidding

Something tells me that wasn't the answer they were looking for when they Asked the Administrator.


lol

[Rex]

50. This has been years in the making, it had to all come to a head eventually. nt

nt

[Bluenorthwest]

60. And yet the questioner has now doubled down.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910315

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. It's long been known that the jury system is subject to bias and coordination.

When that coordination is directed at a small minority of posters, it's "nonexistent" and "not a problem".

When it's directed at Clinton supporters (arguably in equal measure at Sanders supporters) it's "Holy shit! Time to reengineer the entire site!"

People can learn to live within whatever system is devised. What is impossible is to create a site based on community standards, then create rules which, in the absence of Free Republic-style autocratic administration, create the desired community standard.

[sibelian]

54. What is meant by "community standard" in the first place could be brought under discussion.

In any system left to the community itself to moderate, clearly whatever results IS the "community standard". What else would it be? That there are many who would argue that the community standard falls below the community standard isn't something I will comment on.

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. I guess if the standards of the community aren't in alignment with the admins

they have the ability to evict the community and recruit new homesteaders.

[sibelian]

57. I wouldn't see any particular problem with that. It's their site.

There are plenty of other places to go...

[The Straight Story]

53. The jury system was doomed to fail long ago because you can't trust people in groups

It is like lord of the flies here.

[jeepers]

56. Answer me this

When DU 'calls' it for Hillary and criticism of the Democratic nominee is forbidden Did New York, Arizona and Nevada not happen?

Are we supposed to forget or ignore that voter suppression is taking place on our side of the fence because this time it worked for us, and are we expected to follow the bosses lead and say nothing or write it off as sour grapes, business as usual?


Do we get to call ourselves good democrats so long as we keep our mouths shut for the next four years? Future looks bright don't it.

[HuckleB]

58. K & R!

[Bluenorthwest]

59. You clipped off the first and best part, about the Amnesty All Stars....

"You know what else they have in common?

I stuck my neck out and gave a blanket amnesty to all the people who were suspended on five hides, and when those people on your list got their second chance they all chose to double-down on their bad behavior.

And they aren't the only ones. We've got a bunch of Bernie supporters sitting on Flagged For Review status also. Of course they aren't on your list because they don't fit your narrative.

Yes, I get that the system is stacked against Hillary supporters. But that doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of toxic people on both sides of the Hillary/Bernie split."

So like I said when the Glorious Amnesty first occurred, it might be wise to really read what Skinner is saying in the whole rather than in excerpted segments presented in support of a narrative he is not telling.

[rbrnmw]

61. thanks I didn't know if I should post his whole message

if that was even allowed that's why I linked to it

[Bluenorthwest]

64. I think your edit tells half the story....

nt

[rbrnmw]

66. OK.

Not on purpose