Charles Pierce: Why Do We Keep Learning New Secrets About 9/11?

[eridani]

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/36868-focus-why-do-we-keep-learning-new-secrets-about-911

'I, for one, didn't know that a Saudi diplomat had been implicated in the support network on which some of the hijackers depended while living in San Diego. (Why is Fahad al-Thumairy walking around free while shoeless losers who fall for FBI stings get shipped off to the nether regions of the federal penal system?) But Lehman wasn't finished yet.

In the interview Wednesday, Lehman said Kean and Hamilton's statement that only one Saudi government employee was "implicated" in supporting the hijackers in California and elsewhere was "a game of semantics" and that the commission had been aware of at least five Saudi government officials who were strongly suspected of involvement in the terrorists' support network. "They may not have been indicted, but they were certainly implicated," he said. "There was an awful lot of circumstantial evidence."

Allegedly, there was a considerable brawl within the commission about how the material concerning the Saudi involvement was being handled, and at the center of it was staff director Philip Zelikow, whose previous job was as an aide to Condoleezza Rice back in the days when she was proving to be the worst National Security Advisor ever. This always has stuck in my craw, and if the stonewall is falling down, then that's all to the good.

Zelikow fired a staffer, who had repeatedly protested over limitations on the Saudi investigation, after she obtained a copy of the 28 pages outside of official channels. Other staffers described an angry scene late one night, near the end of the investigation, when two investigators who focused on the Saudi allegations were forced to rush back to the commission's offices after midnight after learning to their astonishment that some of the most compelling evidence about a Saudi tie to 9/11 was being edited out of the report or was being pushed to tiny, barely readable footnotes and endnotes. The staff protests were mostly overruled. Why Do We Keep Learning New Secrets About 9/11?

[merrily]

1. For pity sakes. If God had wanted us to know all about 911, He would have put it in the Bible, duh.

[moonbabygo]

4. lol nt

[Fast Walker 52]

9. ha, perfect

[floriduck]

56. And if a God wanted us to know about all of the Clinton's shenanigans, he would put it

in the DNC by-laws and sold the corporate media to progressive owners.

[maxsolomon]

134. good job working that zinger in

to an otherwise unrelated topic.

never stop tearing down the likely nominee!

[byronius]

92. I have officially burst out laughing, and am still laughing as I type this.

[merrily]

100. Then my work here is done.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. I remember, back on DU at the time, there were very serious reservations...

...about Zelikow being the "steerer" of the commission, AND, especially, Lee Hamilton's involvement with it as well. He is the Repug's favorite Dem "whitewasher" when it comes to investigations Repugs want whitewashed...

[zentrum]

3. Yup. You said it. nt

[merrily]

5. Commissions have two interwined purposes.

One is to fool the public, at public expense, into thinking something objective, authoritative, unassailable and totes final has gone down.

Come to think of it, there is no other purpose.

[hatrack]

17. Actually there is another purpose - delay.

Interminable, endless delay.

[merrily]

32. True, but not always. Sometimes, they want to put something to bed

as quickly as humanly possible, but consistent with the idea that they were thorough.

[RufusTFirefly]

83. Good point. But in this case, it took more than a year...

... to hold even the first meeting.

One can imagine why. They were probably thinking, "Holy shit! How are we going to be able to explain away this?!"

Then again, perhaps Dubya felt it was important to allow everyone a chance to finish their shopping first.



Or maybe he was still worried about scaring those poor elementary school kids.

[merrily]

101. Exactly. I can't remember who--Freud maybe--

said something about figuring out people's motives, conscious or subconscious--by looking at the outcome or results.

Gee, an American flag as a shopping bag. Does anything say more clearly that we are for sale?

[FlatBaroque]

19. LOL

you are on a roll, merrily. Good day to you!

[merrily]

31. And also to you!

[Jesus Malverde]

67. Lee's been cleaning up the messes since the Iran Contra Affair....nt

[Ford_Prefect]

6. Pipelinestan, Bananastan...

You say Wahhabi, I say WTF?

It's all in the empire manipulation by the terminally rich Saudi Royal Family, their partners and enablers. We now ought to be asking who suggested and promoted behind the scenes the destruction of Libya, Syria, and now Iran?

[merrily]

33. Shhhhh. Asking about Libya, Syria and Iran could get very ugly.

[Ford_Prefect]

36. As long as I don't mention WTC or the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan....Oops!

Wow. You ask the questions that any prosecuting attorney would and watch out, suddenly you're wearing a heavy canvas jacket with leather straps and the complimentary Aluminum fedora.


Forward, ever forward! Only cowards look back!

The new Light Brigade charges once again..........and again.........and again...

[merrily]

109. excellent.

Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.


<snip>

VI
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

How many of them can anyone name, off the top of his or her head?

[Jesus Malverde]

68. Everything happens in a vacuum and nothing is related....nt

[merrily]

108. Duh! Only a "conspiracy theorist" would believe otherwise!

Nice to see you, Jesus.

[Ford_Prefect]

112. Well, you know it all hangs by a very slim chad. Who would think tiny holes in paper

could lead to such catastrophe.

I guess it is in how you sift the history...Oops, there's that pesky past once again!

Some folks think the cure is in never looking back because that dishonors our heroes and diminishes their glory and sacrifice. I cannot help but ask why they were sent, who decided they had to go, when was that decision made and what was done to enable it?

[EdwardBernays]

7. Well duh

Think how it did/could've played out

Saudi best friend George W is a war hero.
All his friends make billions off of the wars
Saudis make billions off of oil price spike
US gets to have troops everywhere thanks to terrorism
GOP gets to stay in power endlessly

And don't forget all the Dems with vast ties to weapons manufacturers and Saudi Arabia... Like a certain Hillary C... No that's too obvious - H Clinton.

Both parties got real paid as did their regional facilitators... Never mind all those dead Americans.

[Jerry442]

20. The truth has no significant supporters.

Well, there are the peoples of the U.S.,Iraq, and Afghanistan who paid for this travesty with lives and treasure, but like I said, no one significant.

[lindysalsagal]

87. I wish I could argue your point, but sadly, it's true.

I wonder if there is any truth at all in the world, even here.

[felix_numinous]

45. And the perps pay to assure secrecy long enough to make a profit

and as long as they are alive. Soon as they die we will find out the truth--my theory.

[Jesus Malverde]

69. "Sept 11 was good for Israel." -- Netanyahu

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

74. Yep, Israeli stock market boomed...

... their companies had all the security apps, consulting and hardware ready to sell after decades of watching the Palestinians.

[bahrbearian]

8. We need to make sure that the Saudi's are properly armed for self defense, maybe an arms sale?

[FlatBaroque]

21. We don't like to sell too many arms to radical fanatics and supporters of terrorism

unless you can cough up 10,000,000 for my charitable foundation.

[99th_Monkey]

58. +10 nt

[Fast Walker 52]

10. why does Mr. Pierce think there's millions of "9/11 truthers" in this country?

It's because the official story is a crock and we can't stand the lies.

FFS.

[uhnope]

11. so what's the real story? nt

[bahrbearian]

12. Saddam did it, we should attack Iraq! Lets have a vote, "I made a mistake"

[Fast Walker 52]

13. it's hard to know exactly, because of the media and political cover-up.

There are obviously a ton of theories.

Let it happen on purpose (LIHOP) is the most mild version of government involvement, but I don't think that goes far enough to explain everything.

Certainly the CIA and FBI were in on it, up to their eyeballs.

[uhnope]

14. What makes you think the CIA and FBI were in on it, up to their eyeballs?

[librechik]

35. certain gates were opened and certain protocols were used that could ONLY be done

by certain federal officials. Saudi terrorists couldn't pull that off alone.

Then of course, there is all the RAMPANT destruction of evidence the FEDS admitted or we know they did whether they admit it or not. Only the Americans involved could have done that. The military, the FAA and the FBI were especially implicated.

Start reading David Lee Griffin's numerous 9/11 books if you are interested in the analysis of evidence. The one where he shows how many lies were told by the Commission is a good place to start.

[bbgrunt]

39. I will second this idea. David Lee Griffin's books are eye opening, well written, well researched,

and a definite must read with regard to 9-11.

[99th_Monkey]

59. Not to mention a score of anomalies, like Building 7 just falling down on its own. nt

[A HERETIC I AM]

129. That bullshit has been debunked so many times it isn't funny

Why people cling to the idea that Building 7 "fell down on its own" or that it was blown up intentionally completely astounds me

[uhnope]

60. Could you summarize the info and evidence about these gates

extreme claims require extreme evidence

[rhett o rick]

86. You ask a lot of questions but never seem to venture an opinion of your own. Hmmm. nm

[truedelphi]

91. I found C Span's televising of the Nine Eleven Commission very eye

opening.


At first, the hearings seemed rather mundane and boring. But as a person listened and watched, it was amazing. The Commission was holding hearings to interview so many of the top dogs of the military and in the Government and most of what was being said by these important officials was the most absolute claptrap.

Imagine being the head of Strategic Air Command, and not being able to offer up the Commission anything pertinent relating to the tragic day's events, because "I have been transferred from my position with SAC to a different commission with Naval Intelligence, and when I left SAC, I inadvertently left my journal and organizer in my desk at SAC. So I don't have any idea of what the particulars of my day there were."

These kinds of statements were made by one official after another. I mean, I used to get nervous if I left my HS French homework at home on the day of an oral exam. Yet none of these people seemed able to make any intelligent comments about the events of the day. Yet they didn't seem nervous about this inability. And even more amazingly, they were totally unconcerned about their lack of being able to intelligently testify.

Wouldn't you think the Nine Eleven Commission would have someone on their panel to respond, "Well, now surely Mr Former SAC commander,you could have called up SAC headquarter and asked that one of their people courier over your left behind journal?" But no, no matter how outrageous the non-statements were, no one on the Commission seemed that interested. And the person offering up non-statements had no nervousness at all. People not at all remembering what they were doing. People making the most nonsensical statements. Above and beyond belief.

When one military official was queried as to why the planes summoned by Cheney to fly to protect the Pentagon were not made available by Andrews AFB, an Air Force base some eleven miles from the WH, but instead came from Langley AFB some 130 miles away, the Commission was told, "Well, the closer AFB can only be contacted by Secret Service and they didn't have the phone number at hand to call them!" I mean, at the time, my eighty year old mother had every phone number she could ever need in her Rolodex, but the President, Vice President and Secret Service didn't have the phone number for Andrews AFB handy?

When a person considers that between 1950 and 2001 the nation had spent some thirty one TRILLION dollars to provide for our defense and yet the nation's top officials didn't have phone numbers handy? And none at the Commission seemed perplexed our concerned, nor did anyone say, "Let's at least make sure that from now on the President, Vice President and the Secret Service have up to date Rolodexes..."

[99th_Monkey]

131. I didn't watch the 911 Commission proceedings, but I'm not at all surprised to hear

what you're talking me.

As I delved into researching the divisive debates between "Truthers" and Deniers, I was
often shocked at the extent to which Deniers would go, with their tortured illogic to
pretend that their was "nothing to see here", that Truthers were just paranoid alarmists
making up shit. One needs look no further than the DU Dungeon phenomenon to see
this.

[leveymg]

44. If you really want to know the answer to that, and aren't just being snide, here's a resource

that covers virtually every significant documented event leading up to and following the 9/11 attacks, including the eyeballs:

http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

[uhnope]

61. could you summarize the proof that the CIA/FBI was involved

thx

[leveymg]

65. Start with this.

If you're interested enough, I can send you links to a lot more.

Director Mueller: 9/11 Hijackers were, in Fact, Under NSA Surveillance

by leveymg
Daily Kos, FRI JUN 14, 2013

NSA Surveillance of 9/11 Plot Was Known to FBI

Outgoing FBI Director Robert Mueller made a startling claim yesterday to a Congressional Committee overseeing the NSA inquiry. The Director described how Khalid al-Midhar, one of the 9-11 hijackers, had called a Yemeni safe house from a phone in San Diego shortly before the attack. Mueller claims had today's surveillance system been in place, NSA surveillance of that call would have led to sharing of intelligence with the FBI and "derailed" the 9/11 attack. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/13/fbi-mueller-spy-tactics-9-11-boston

That isn't the complete truth, however. Court records from the trial of convicted co-conspiractor Zakaria Moussaoui shows the FBI was aware of NSA intercepts of Midhar and and his partner Nawaf al-Hazmi in the months leading up to 9/11, who went on to hijack Flt. 77 that slammed into the Pentagon. The pair had also met with the other principal 9/11 hijackers at various locations inside the US. Based in part on NSA wiretaps that were later withheld and suppressed, FBI agents had, in fact, located the pair inside the US in mid-2001, but the investigating agents were ordered to close the file after CIA refused to cooperate and pressured the Bureau to shut down several lines of field investigation that were focusing on the plotters.

Mueller's claims omit those key facts. The Director instead stated that Khalid al-Mihdhar was being monitored by intelligence agencies, but “they lost track of him,” Mueller said. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2013/0613/Secret-NSA-program-could-have-derailed-9-11-attacks-FBI-director-says-video

FBI Director Mueller doesn't explain why. He instead told Congress that intelligence officials did not know that it was Midhar who called a Yemen safehouse to discuss progress of the plot. The NSA monitoring program could have changed that, Mueller argued, potentially leading to the "derailing" of the plot. In fact, the FBI field investigators had already tried to get CIA to reveal the NSA surveillance records they knew already existed, but that line of investigation was shut down by headquarters. Mueller's statement is completely misleading in view of the actual events and decisions taken by ranking intelligence officials to sidetrack ongoing FBI investigations into the al-Qaeda operation during 2001:

“If we had the telephone number from Yemen, we would have matched it up to that telephone number in San Diego, got further legal process, identified al-Mihdhar,” he said. “The 9/11 Commission itself indicated that investigations or interrogations of al-Mihdhar once he was identified could have yielded evidence of connections to other participants in the 9/11 plot.”

CONTINUED w/links...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/14/1216187/-Director-Mueller-9-11-Hijackers-were-in-Fact-Under-NSA-Surveillance

[uhnope]

114. So, we can summarize that as:

Some of the 9/11 hijackers had been under government surveillance at some point prior to the attack.

Is that a fair summary?

[leveymg]

116. Yes, and all that it implies. If you read through the replies, here's my take:

Q:

wilderness voice
Jun 14 · 12:25:48 PM
hard to sort through all this

was this all bureaucratic screw-up or was there some nefarious ulterior motive.?
Recommended 1 time

A:

leveymg wilderness voice
Jun 14 · 01:28:39 PM
Richard Clarke take on this:

Former Counterterrorism Czar Accuses Tenet, Other CIA Officials of Cover-Up
11 August 2011

"I know how all this stuff works I've been working it for 30 years," Clarke said. "You can't snowball me on this stuff. If they announce on September 4 in the Principals meeting that these guys are in the United States and they told the FBI a few weeks ago I'm going to say 'wait, time out. How long have you known this? Why haven't you reported it at the daily threat meetings? Why isn't it in the daily threat matrix?' We would have begun an investigation that day into CIA malfeasance and misfeasance that's why we're not informed."

http://www.truth-out.org/...

My take: There were the compartmentalized Agency programs that go back to the CIA's use of al-Qaeda during the Afghanistan War against the Soviets that blew back in the '93 WTC bombing, but never really ended. UBL was a key Saudi liaison in these operations. Instead of ending, these morphed into covert joint operations in Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Dagestan, and elsewhere. The Agency's relationship with al-Qaeda was complicated by Khobar Towers and the falling out between UBL and Station Chief Cofer Black in Khartoum. UBL was moved by Prince Turki from Sudan to Afghanistan to coordinate with the Taliban. Black was promoted and moved to HQ, where he was given the plum job of Chief of CIA-CounterTerrorism Center. The East Africa embassies bombings seemed to cleanly sever the relationship, but it didn't work out quite so cleanly.

At the same time that CIA-CTC was formally in charge of the Agency's operations against UBL, the Agency was also involved in running ongoing covert paramilitary operations in coordination with Saudi Intelligence against the Russians and its proxies in the Transcausus region and Central Asia. The Saudis continued to support Jihadis, which continued to be tied in with UBL. So, CIA had to continue protecting the Saudis (and their AQ auxillary) from interference by the FBI and its own purportedly anti-UBL units. The inner-tension in this schizoid mix of missions made blowback inevitable.

Sinister? History will be the judge. Bureaucratic mix-up seems far, far too mild to capture it. CYA and denial were the only conceivable official response to 9/11.


Recommended 6 times

If you want to know the full backstory on the CIA-UBL relationship, and what came of it, you can read this: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/4/810764/-

[uhnope]

117. those implications would also need some hard proof.

I don't doubt that some of the 9/11 hijackers had been under surveillance.
But as we know too well, a lot of people are under surveillance. So that doesn't, at all, prove that the CIA/FBI were in on it up to their eyeballs, the original statement.
I have no doubt, also, a historical amount of ass-covering and Saudi-friend protecting (from just money connections, etc, not from planning) went on after 9/11, because, as they say, success has many parents but failure is an orphan. But that was afterward.
If you can summarize for me what you mean by "and all that implies" and some hard, glaring evidence, I would appreciate it.

[leveymg]

119. I suggest you read the longer article about CIA-UBL ties, and come back with specific questions.

[Fast Walker 52]

90. years of research and reading

there's so much material out there.

[uhnope]

103. could you summarize a bit of the more damning & obvious evidence pls

thx

[Fast Walker 52]

111. this site is pretty solid

http://www.consensus911.org/the-911-consensus-points/

Factual Evidence Contradicts the 9/11 Story

The official account of the events of September 11, 2001, has been used:

to justify the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, which have resulted in the deaths of over a million people; [1]
to authorize torture, military tribunals, and extraordinary rendition; and
to suspend freedoms guaranteed by the American Constitution such as habeas corpus in the USA, and similar freedoms in Canada, the UK, and other countries.
The official claims regarding 9/11 are contradicted by facts that have been validated by a scientific consensus process, and which include the following points of “best evidence”.

The 46 Consensus Points are divided into the ten categories below, which in turn link to the individual 46 points:

A. General Consensus Points
B. Consensus Points about the Twin Towers
C. Consensus Points about the Collapse of World Trade Center 7
D. Consensus Points about the Pentagon
E. Consensus Points about the 9/11 Flights
F. Consensus Points about US Military Exercises On and Before 9/11
G. Consensus Points about the Political and Military Commands on 9/11
H. Consensus Points about Hijackers on 9/11
I. Consensus Points about the Phone Calls on 9/11
V. Consensus Points about Official Video Exhibits Regarding 9/11



A. General Consensus Points

Point G-1: A Claim Regarding Osama bin Laden

Point G-2: A Claim that there was No Insider Trading in Put Options before September 11, 2001


B. Consensus Points about the Twin Towers

Point TT-1: A Claim about the Destruction of the Twin Towers: Impact, Jet Fuel, and Fire Only

Point TT-2: A Claim about the Destruction of the Twin Towers: Impact, Fire, and Gravity Only

Point TT-3: A Claim Excluding Explosions in the Twin Towers

Point TT-4: A Second Claim Excluding Explosives in the Twin Towers

Point TT-5: The Claim that the World Trade Center Dust Contained No Thermitic Materials

Point TT-6: The Claim that There Was No Molten Steel or Iron in the World Trade Center Buildings

Point TT-7: Why Did the Twin Towers Collapse? The Seismic Evidence

Point TT-8: Why Did the Twin Towers Collapse? The Physical and Testimonial Evidence


C. Consensus Points about the Collapse of World Trade Center 7

Point WTC7-1: The Claim that WTC 7 Collapsed from Fire Alone

Point WTC7-2: The Claim in NIST’s Draft Report that WTC 7 Did Not Come Down at Free Fall Acceleration

Point WTC7-3: The Claim in NIST’s Final Report that WTC 7 Came Down in Free Fall Without Explosives

Point WTC7-4: Did the Official Simulation of the Fall of WTC7 Match the Observed Collapse?

Point WTC7-5: World Trade Center Building 7: NIST’s Analysis of the Collapse Initiation Is Not Valid

Point WTC7-6: The Fraudulent NIST Claim That There Was No Steel Recovered from Building WTC7 for Analysis

Point WTC7-7: Foreknowledge of the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7


D. Consensus Points about the Pentagon

Point Pent-1: Why the Attack on the Pentagon Was Not Prevented: The First Official Account

Point Pent-2: Why the Attack on the Pentagon Was Not Prevented: The Second Official Account

Point Pent-3: The Claim Regarding Hani Hanjour as Flight 77 Pilot

Point Pent-4: Was There Foreknowledge by Officials that the Pentagon would be Attacked? New, Sept. 2015



E. Consensus Points about the 9/11 Flights

Point Flt-1: A Claim Regarding Hijacked Passenger Jets

Point Flt-2: The Claim that Flight 93 Crashed Near Shanksville, Pennsylvania

Point Flt-3: Were Hijackers Responsible for Changes to September 11 Flight Transponders?

Point Flt-4: Unexplained Black Box Anomalies for the Four 9/11 Planes



F. Consensus Points about US Military Exercises On and Before 9/11

Point ME-1: Did Military Exercises Show that the Military was Prepared for Domestic (as Well as Foreign) Hijackings?

Point ME-2: The Claim that the Military Exercises Did Not Delay the Response to the 9/11 Attacks



G. Consensus Points about the Political and Military Commands on 9/11

Point MC-Intro: Overview of Contradicted Claims about Key Military and Political Leaders

Point MC-1: Why Was President Bush Not Hustled Away from the Florida School?

Point MC-2: The White House Claim as to How Long President Bush Remained in the Florida Classroom

Point MC-3: The Claim about the Time of Dick Cheney’s Entry into the White House Bunker

Point MC-4: When Did Cheney Authorize the Shoot-down of Civilian Planes?

Point MC-5: Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld’s Behavior between 9:00 and 10:00 AM

Point MC-6: T he Activities of General Richard Myers during the 9/11 Attacks

Point MC-7: The Time of General Shelton’s Return to his Command

Point MC-8: The Activities of Brigadier General Montague Winfield between 8:30 and 10:30 AM

Point MC-9: The Activities of General Ralph Eberhart during the 9/11 Attacks

Point MC-10: The Activities of NYC Mayor Giuliani on September 11, 2001



H. Consensus Points about Hijackers on 9/11

Point H-1: Mohamed Atta’s Mysterious Trip to Portland

Point H-2: The Claim that ‘Able Danger’ Failed to Identify Mohamed Atta’s Probable Presence in the US in January 2000 New, Sept. 2015



I. Consensus Points about the Phone Calls on 9/11

Point PC-1: The Alleged Calls of Todd Beamer, Flight UA 93

Point PC-1A: The Todd Beamer Call from UA Flight 93: A Serious Problem in the Timeline

Point PC-2: The Reported Phone Calls from Barbara Olson

Point PC-3: Cell Phone Calls from the Planes: The First Official Account

Point PC-4: Cell Phone Calls from the Planes: The Second Official Account



V. Consensus Points about Official Video Exhibits Regarding 9/11

Point Video-1: The Alleged Security Videos of Mohamed Atta during a Mysterious Trip to Portland, Maine, September 10-11, 2001

Point Video-2: Was the Airport Video of the Alleged AA 77 Hijackers Authentic? Official 9/11 Videotaped Evidence

[uhnope]

113. thank you, but that site looks to be hundreds of web pages long

I just asked for a summary of the more glaring, obvious evidence that the CIA & FBI were in on it up to their eyeballs. A few damning facts that show this. Could you help me out?

[Fast Walker 52]

115. the simple answer is that both the CIA and FBI both had extensive foreknowledge of the plot

and had agents in contact with the hijackers.

The CIA helped write the 9/11 commission report, which was part of the cover-up.

The FBI was in charge of all the fishy domestic evidence of the attacks, and were in position to cover-up any damaging connections of the hijackers to the FBI and CIA.

If you want more than that, you will have to do your own research.

[uhnope]

118. thank you, that's a good summary

this:

both the CIA and FBI both had extensive foreknowledge of the plot

Now I would just need a summary of the glaring, obvious evidence of that.

Can you help me out?

[Fast Walker 52]

122. I suspect you will nitpick this to death and never really be satisfied with anything I show

but on the FBI side, I will mention Collen Rowley, Sibel Edmonds and Robert Wright. You can find their stories easily.

https://www.google.com/search?q=colleen+rowley+fbi+9%2F11

https://www.google.com/search?q=sibel+edmonds+fbi+9%2F11

https://www.google.com/search?q=robert+wright+FBI+9%2F11

There's also the story of how two hijackers were living with an FBI informant.

On the CIA side, they were spying on al Qaeda for years. And it's the freaking CIA.

[uhnope]

123. sorry but that's just a massive fail

I have politely & simply asked for just a bit of hard proof for your claims. After many chances, you have been unable to do so.

I haven't nitpicked at all. You haven't even given me any evidence to nitpick. I've asked basic questions asking for basic facts. Now instead you're giving me Googling tasks.

You really had my full attention, and I just wanted to be told something straight and verifiable.

Unfortunately, you have lived down to most people's negative view of conspiracy theory, that it's unprovable circular-reasoning based on a vague arrangement of semi-suspicious factoids in order to flimsily support a foregone conclusion.

That's the reason so many people dismiss CTs.

[Fast Walker 52]

124. What exact sort of proof do you want?

Are you discounting the stories of Wright, Edmonds and Rowley?

I said I suspected you would nitpick, and lo and behold, you aren't satisfied with anything I provided.

[uhnope]

125. basic meaning of words like nitpick and proof

you don't seem to know these things.

[Fast Walker 52]

128. well, again, what sort of evidence do you want?

what exactly would convince you?

[librechik]

132. did you actually read any of the evidence links provided

or follow any of the suggestions for reading?

Some of the people here have been closely studying this topic for 15 years or so. Can you claim the same?

And yet you curtly demand that we summarize all the evidence in a couple of paragraphs and convince you. and that's just the thing. We don't get to subpoena people. We don't get to read classified documents. We aren't in any position to answer your questions.

I would tell you to go ask somebody who knows the truth. Like Condi Rice. But you obviously already have your mind made up and have decided we are nuts. Please do us all a favor and discuss this issue elsewhere.

[uhnope]

143. Wayne Simmons

Think about all the FOX addicts that thought everything Wayne Simmons said was true all those years. See http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/oct/16/fox-news-analyst-arrested-for-lying-about-working-as-a-cia-agent

That's the prob with just thinking that because some person was once in a position somewhere, that person is telling the truth, without any corresponding evidence.
All the links to "proof" were like that... no proof.

This is funny what you wrote:

We don't get to subpoena people. We don't get to read classified documents. We aren't in any position to answer your questions.

I would tell you to go ask somebody who knows the truth.

It seems that you are admitting that you, and the others on this thread who couldn't offer any proof, that you all don't know what's true, but you believe the conspiracy anyway. That sounds more like a religion than a solid belief system.

I never said anybody was nuts. I respectfully asked for one single example of the conspiracy and the corresponding proof. No one on this thread could give me anything solid. So how are you different that all the RWers who believe Wayne Simmons all those years with his wild claims about Obama & Democrats.

[elljay]

54. There is a milder version

to which I subscribe. It is that our government did not LIHOP, but truly was incompetent, in part because of our siloed intelligence services, in part because our leaders intentionally refused to credit any information they received from the previous Democratic administration, in part because our government and intelligence services are filled with many people who really have no clue about other cultures/religions/countries etc. and just didn't have the vision to figure out what was about to happen. I truly don't think Bush/Cheney et al were competent enough to know that 9/11 was coming and to keep such a secret, but that Cheney was savvy enough to know how to use the attack after it did happen. The active governmental interference came AFTER the attacks, when the establishment went into high gear to protect their butts, their budgets, their friends. The coverup was and remains criminal and our government seems very content to ignore it.

[Bohunk68]

55. I would agree with most of what you have stated.

I would add to that the PNAC plans lend a lot of truthiness to the theory. The plans already existed, and they pounced on the attacks like a dog on a bone. Maybe not quite LIHOP, but awfully close. It's like I don't carry the theory that there is a huge cabal of rich folks planning and plotting. I think that they all think along the same lines and act on the circumstances in a similar way.

[elljay]

57. Good point about PNAC nt

[Major Nikon]

75. ...

[Fast Walker 52]

89. you're right, that is a milder version

IMO, it lets Bush and Cheney off the hook to easily, and there are also too many oddities about the attacks for it to just be that.

Though I should add it's possible that 9/11 was still an inside job and Bush/Cheney were too incompetent to be aware of what the covert ops people were doing.

[Major Nikon]

63. Aliens and the Illuminati finally linked up with the BFEE

The CIA, with the aid of alien technology commissioned the development of several EMR cannons that were strategically deployed by the Illuminati that remotely reprogrammed the flight directors on each of the planes and disabled manual override. The rest is history.

That's the short version. Lyndon LaRouche has all the details.

[uhnope]

133. see post #123

unfortunately

[rhett o rick]

88. Let's play "Guess the Point". I guess that your insinuating questions mean you

believe the establishment's story, whatever it is. I usually don't believe anything the establishment tries to feed me. But that's how we are different. I think skepticism is healthy. I know that the establishment will lie to us every chance they get. In this case they didn't even try to present a rational story.

Why try to imply that if we don't know the real story, we need to accept the bullshit they try to feed us?

[cantbeserious]

15. Why - The 1% Don't Want Their Gig To End

eom

[Botany]

16. Because this guy's (Saudi Ambassador Bandar)wife was writing checks to pay for ...

.... the living expenses for 3 of the hijackers in S. California.

[EdwardBernays]

23. I had to Google that

And this is what I found

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/25/alqaida.saudiarabia

[Botany]

24. The Saudi's support fot the hijackers wasn't just in S. CA either

http://gawker.com/5838498/the-mysterious-saudi-family-that-vanished-two-weeks-before-911

The Mysterious Saudi Family That Vanished Two Weeks Before 9/11

[EdwardBernays]

26. I've read a lot about that

And the complicity of the FBI in covering it all up.

You really have to ask why Americans should be supporting the FBI and CIA with taxes when they betray Americans so frequently.

[Botany]

28. Richard Clarke tried to warn the POTUS before 9/11 and he was shut down

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clarkes-take-on-terror/


In the aftermath of Sept. 11, President Bush ordered his then top anti-terrorism adviser to look for a link between Iraq and the attacks, despite being told there didn't seem to be one.

The charge comes from the adviser, Richard Clarke, in an exclusive interview on 60 Minutes.

The administration maintains that it cannot find any evidence that the conversation about an Iraq-9/11 tie-in ever took place.

Clarke also tells CBS News Correspondent Lesley Stahl that White House officials were tepid in their response when he urged them months before Sept. 11 to meet to discuss what he saw as a severe threat from al Qaeda.

******

People should be in jail and or on trial for war crimes and or on death row for the shit they pulled before
and after 9/11. w and Cheney's Iraqi war produced ISIS for God's sake. How the hell even w/the massive
cheating did w bush get re-elected?

[EdwardBernays]

29. fear fear fear fear fear

The same tool Hillary is hoping to use.

[maxsolomon]

135. your opinion only

I think she'll use surprise, just like the Spanish Inquisition.

[EdwardBernays]

140. It's literally

What their plan is:

“The slogan is ‘Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid,’” said Paul Begala, who is an adviser to the pro-Clinton super PAC Priorities USA.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/be-afraid?utm_term=.ru25wwYQQ#.siYNGG6DD

Fear is literally all they got.

[maxsolomon]

141. a tad out of context, though

"be very afraid of Trump" is more accurate. and has little to do with 9/11, regardless.

[nikto]

95. That was a HUGE red flag, IMO

I can't claim to know exactly who was behind 9-11, but I know who benefitted, and
that the Officlal Story is BS.

[leveymg]

46. Through an account in Riggs Bank directed by the President's uncle, owned by Joe Allbritton

a Houston banker who employed G.H.W. Bush right after he was fired as CIA Director by Jimmy Carter.

[Botany]

50. And on the morning of 9/11/01 HW just happened to be with some members of the bin Laden ...

.... family, Marvin Bush's (w, Jeb, & Neil's brother) former company had the security contract for the
WTC and Boston's Logan airport, and Cheney was helping to run war games that simulated an attack
on the US using hijacked planes. Lots of damn coincidences before during and after 9/11 if I say so
myself.


People should be in jail and or on death row for what they did to America and the world. w & Cheney
used 9/11 as an excuse to attack Iraq where millions of people have died or been wounded and in
the whirlwind after their war ISIS was produced.

[99th_Monkey]

62. Good summary of some of the anomalies on 9/11, but don't forget Bldg. 7

Just falling down on its own footprint for no apparent reason, as no plane hit that structure.

[RufusTFirefly]

71. Move along. Nothing to see here

Are you a physicist or engineer? If not, you don't have the credentials required to make a simple observation. If you are a physicist or engineer, then you're probably just a wacky "truther."

[99th_Monkey]

72. There are more "anomolies" per square inch packed into a singular event,

it truly boggles the mind. No wonder some have so much difficult moving off of denial.

[GoneFishin]

82. Yep. No amount of revisionist history will make that one go away. Once you pull the WTC7

thread the whole official pile of shit comes completely unraveled. They knew it too, which is why they chose not to include any reference to it in the 9/11 report.

[RufusTFirefly]

51. Don't dig too deep into the connection between Allbritton and Politico

Just sayin'

[leveymg]

70. Like father, like son. Probably more interesting are the Bush bank looting deals with binLaden in

Texas and across the oil patch during the 1980s that extended into the BCCI takeover of First American.

Here's something I posted in a thread in 2008 on this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3655388

We know, but it's good to be reminded of the original reports, every now and then. K&R

Edited on Tue Jul-22-08 09:00 AM by leveymg
There's a wealth of detail here that's worth reconnecting with what we've learned since. For instance, it wasn't revealed until recent years that then CIA Director George H.W. Bush made a political deal in mid-1976 with the head of Saudi external intelligence, Prince Turki al-Faisal, to allow the Saudis to finance and run the sort of covert operations that the Democratic Congress banned after the Church Committee hearings. That deal with code-named, Safari Club. BCCI was the funding vehicle for that illegal operation. See, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/280

The result was a series of massive financial rip-offs, development of a Saudi paramilitary capability that became al-Qaeda, and the AQ Khan nuclear network, all of which the Bush wing of the CIA quietly facilitated. The Safari Club was also the start of Saudi penetration of the US political and banking systems, and huge support of the GOP.

What's useful is to look at the details of old news reports, since the corporate media used to actually report a lot of useful details. For instance, after he was fired as CIA Director by President Carter in early 1977, Bush was appointed Director of Houston-based First International Bankshares, owned in part by Joe Allbriton, with foreign offices in London and Luxembourg. BCCI had its major offices in the same locations. After Bush became VP, Allbriton sold out his shares in First Interbank to his crony, Jim Baker III, who owned Republic Bank. The merger went bankrupt a few years later, which became the largest financial bail-out in US history. That set the model for the S&L rip-off, which was also centered in Southwest bank chains in whch BCCI and the Bush clan had a vested interest. Allbriton went on to buy DC-based Riggs Bank, that along with UBS and other BCCI-linked banks, dispersed much of the funds held in diplomatic accounts by the Saudi Embassy in the name of the wife of Prince Bandar (an old friend of the Bush family) to support al-Qaeda cell members in the U.S. who attacked the US on 9/11. It's a small world, after all.

[uhnope]

18. Why didn't you used the link to the original article? Here it is.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a44864/saudi-arabia-9-11-report/

I approve of this writer & article & source because it is level-headed and smart, not whacked out irresponsible CT with a hidden agenda.

Your link to "Reader Supported News" is to a page with tons of BS all over it--links to ConsortiumNews, Telesur and other lying propaganda. It discredits reasonable, professional articles like this one.

[HOPNOSH]

99. Why didn't you used?

Really? You lack cred.

[uhnope]

102. typo troll

lol

[Enthusiast]

22. Kicked and recommended to the Max! nt

[Octafish]

25. Phil Zelikow -- friend of Karl Rove and Max Holland

Fine people, now that Phil Gramm's a member of the team. A great writer and disinformationist, IMFO.

[Orrex]

27. I can't wait until they get to the part about the implosion bomb

That'll make for some terrific page-turning.

[leveymg]

30. I'll give it a rec for visibility, but . . . anyone who says, "I, for one, didn't know that a Saudi

diplomat had been implicated in the support network on which some of the hijackers depended while living in San Diego." (Why is Fahad al-Thumairy walking around free while shoeless losers who fall for FBI stings get shipped off to the nether regions of the federal penal system?) But Lehman wasn't finished yet. . .

That fact is well-known for more than a decade by anyone who has been following this. If Lehman is making that claim, he must have napping during all those hearings.

[LiberalLovinLug]

42. You have to understand the authoritarian mindset - even here in DU

Those that believe the word "conspiracy" is a made up word but if it existed, the real conspiracy is that such a non-word was ever allowed into the dictionary. And so if you ever even put out, not a set belief, but even just a theory of what may have happened counter to the authorities official explanation, you are to be ridiculed and dismissed.

These poor folks need to almost be Clockwork Oranged with their eyes forced open to look at even official documents that tell them things their dear leaders have tried to hide.

[malaise]

34. K & R

Truth will out

[NoMoreRepugs]

37. do the math people

worldwide consumption of oil is approximately 90million barrels per day

create a situation that can add a significant 'risk cost' to the price of a barrel and you are talking about trillions of dollars over time

[maddiemom]

38. Where was all the zealous digging and tenacious determination to never give up the probing

that has been given the never-ending investigations of both the Clintons--- when it came to the 9/11 investigation? We taxpayers are footing the bill for both. Surely any rational citizen who has been paying attention can be a "Clinton hater" and still admit where the long and serious "investigations" should be focused in the national interest.

[Todays_Illusion]

40. This isn't the first time the Saudi's have been in the center of an event that damaged our nation,

I am thinking of the First and Second Oil embargos, in particular the first.

I always thought it odd that there was no push-back from the U.S.A. then I learned that some of our U.S. billionaire's wealth was from M.E. oil. and that U.S. investment in the M.E. oil may be why this has been hidden as well.

[libodem]

41. So glad this is out of the dungeon

And coming into the light. I've had inklings of this since reading " House of Bush, House of Saud". Prince Bandar was right in the center of this conspiracy.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

43. MIHOP. nt

[wildbilln864]

78. exactly! thank you. n/t

[matt819]

47. Oooh, oooh. I know the answer to this one

It's pretty simple.

Bush's investigative group whitewashed everything.

And, sadly, in one of his failures, Obama wanted to look forward, not back, and so did not dig any deeper, at least on anything for public consumption.

[lindysalsagal]

85. I've assumed Obama saw nothing constructive in an expose

Because people will just ignore the truth if they find it uncomfortable.

[Bluenorthwest]

130. But that choice is in major contradiction of the faith Obama always cites as his own.....

Has Obama announced that he's no longer a Christian? Or was that all about LGBT bashing and getting elected?
That faith offers zero leeway for dishonesty, coverups, spin, partial truth or false testimony. No leeway at all. 'Your yes should mean yes and your no should mean no, anything more comes from evil'.

So which is it?

[lark]

48. Saudi royals and their BFF's the BFEE colluded

to cover up the relevant information and to somehow pin 9/11 on Sadaam. It was a trifecta, Saudi royals could continue to burnish their Wahaabi credentials, Bush got to be a war president, got payback for Iraq supposedly trying to harm his dad, and made lots of $$ for Carlyle group by buying weapons systems that weren't needed or wanted by the pentagon. Cheney got rich through KBR.

[99th_Monkey]

64. +100 nt

[JDPriestly]

49. What has been the relationship if any between Kissinger and the Saudi

princes since the 1970s?

What kinds of agreements if any have been made to help the Saudis maintain the value of their investments around the world, their wealth considering the reality of their ever dwindling natural resource, oil?

I realize that they still claim to have lots of oil. But I also recall from my time working in the oil sector in a small job during the early 1970s, that they were very concerned about what would happen to them when their oil, an exhaustible resource, ran out.

I wonder what assurances or agreements were entered into with the Saudis in order to get them to sell their oil at affordable prices.

I've always wondered what the story is on this. This was a major issue in the news at a certain time in history. Something happened, some agreement or something that caused it to disappear. If anyone knows, please say something.

It was quite a reasonable concern on the part of the Saudi government. This was back in the day of Sheik Yamani and the early days of OPEC activism. Does anyone else remember this?

Is it a figment of my imagination?

[RufusTFirefly]

52. If only the commission's original chairman hadn't resigned...

With Henry at the helm, we would've gotten to the truth!

[Ghost Dog]

96. Yes. Kissinger appeared to take one look (or receive one briefing)

and immediately decide he needed to urgently...

wash his hands.

[AntiBank]

104. Hillary Clinton reviews Henry Kissinger’s ‘World Order’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hillary-clinton-reviews-henry-kissingers-world-order/2014/09/04/b280c654-31ea-11e4-8f02-03c644b2d7d0_story.html

Kissinger is a friend, and I relied on his counsel when I served as secretary of state. He checked in with me regularly, sharing astute observations about foreign leaders and sending me written reports on his travels. Though we have often seen the world and some of our challenges quite differently, and advocated different responses now and in the past, what comes through clearly in this new book is a conviction that we, and President Obama, share: a belief in the indispensability of continued American leadership in service of a just and liberal order.

There really is no viable alternative. No other nation can bring together the necessary coalitions and provide the necessary capabilities to meet today’s complex global threats. But this leadership is not a birthright; it is a responsibility that must be assumed with determination and humility by each generation.

Fortunately, the United States is uniquely positioned to lead in the 21st century. It is not just because of the enduring strength of our military or the resilience of our economy, although both are absolutely essential. It goes deeper than that. The things that make us who we are as a nation — our diverse and open society, our devotion to human rights and democratic values — give us a singular advantage in building a future in which the forces of freedom and cooperation prevail over those of division, dictatorship and destruction.

[MisterP]

53. because they tell us everything they know, each and every time

[Rex]

66. And why haven't we seen the 28 pages yet?

Do war crimes have any kind of statute of limitations?

[leveymg]

73. As you've been reading DU for a while, you already have seen something like 95% of it.

But, it will shock the uninitiated.

[Rex]

121. True, after the pictures of children and women being tortured I figured things would change.

However it seems Congress lacks the backbone to do the right thing.

[stevenleser]

107. War crimes do not appear to have a statute of limitations. There are prosecutions still

for Nazi war crimes.

[Rex]

120. Thanks.

Glad to hear that.

[Agnosticsherbet]

76. "Fahad al-Thumairy walking around free" diplomatic immunity.

[FlatBaroque]

77. Remember who they first nominated for 911 commissioner

Henry Kissinger

[truedelphi]

79. Great post so I K'd and rec'ced. And anyone who wants to

Understand in great depth what happens between immigrants from Middle Eastern nations and our corrupted Alphabet Agencies will be in for a huge eye opening should they read the award winning novel "Harbor."

[haikugal]

106. Could you supply the name of the author? Thx

[truedelphi]

110. Lorraine Adams.

Apparently in addition to "Harbor" she has this other book out too. Gotta see if my library has this one as well.

Turning Secret Intelligence to Fiction
Lorraine Adams spent years consulting a U.S. military intelligence specialist for her new novel, 'The Room and the Chair'
By ALEXANDRA ALTER
Updated Feb. 3, 2010 12:01 a.m. ET
Lorraine Adams, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter turned novelist, quit journalism and began writing fiction so that she could tell more nuanced stories. "I was seeing more grey than I was seeing the clear black and white of wrongdoing, and my job was to find wrongdoing," she says.

An investigative journalist at the Washington Post for 11 years, Ms. Adams still sees herself as a reporter. But now she funnels the information she gathers into her novels, which hinge on complex issues such as terrorism, secret military programs and the media's failure to expose government wrongdoing.

[7962]

80. Where the heck has he been? People have pointed fingers at them for years!!

On MANY different sites, including this one
Obviously not specific Saudis, but nonetheless

[Babel_17]

81. Kicked so others can see what I'm seeing (nt)

[Skittles]

84. BECAUSE WE WERE TOLD TO "LOOK FORWARD"

then the powers that be were able to focus on BENGHAZI

[nolabels]

93. Jet fuel (similar to diesel fuel) would is not be able to burn down a steel framed skyscraper ever.

Yet we are told that is what took down those buildings, over and over and over.

Whatever and whoever did whatever is totally irrelevant also in the reality of such facts

[maxsolomon]

136. that's just incorrect.

The impact destroyed a portion of the facade's steel structure, and even it's concrete core IIRC, and the fire weakened the remaining steel portions to the point that the weight above could no longer be supported.

I went to a step-by-step presentation by the Structural Engineer of the WTC shortly after 9/11. Skillings Ward Magnusson, who worked with Yamasaki originally. the engineer walked us through the technicalities of the structural failure. that much jet fuel, abetted by the contents of the building, were sufficient to melt the EXTERIOR structure of the building.

Al Qaeda specifically chose that building because of its unusual structural system. That's why they hit below the top. They knew how to trigger a collapse.

[nolabels]

144. I have been a diesel truck mechanic for 38 years but here a better one for you

(snip)
Steel Ignores Jet Fuel

by Edward Mitchell

I am not a scientist, nor a physicist, nor structural engineer. I am a Boilermaker, Shipbuilder, and Blacksmith Forger. Union. Now a contractor on military facilities. I build steel storage tanks for jet fuel. A few years ago, a typhoon blew through, and I got to watch a Mobil AST, with 1,000,000 gallons of diesel in it, get hit with lightning. The grounding failed, and the million gallons blew up.

Well, for a diesel fire that is. It didn’t “blow up”. It simply caught fire, burned itself out after 4 days, blackened the steel. Catch that? One million gallons of diesel fuel, burned for 4 days, and didn’t melt a thing.

The tank, 1/4?-thick steel, never melted.

Yet the 47 HUGE box-section core columns, the main structural supports of the WTC towers, are said to have melted?

Stop, I’ll wet my britches laughing.
(snip)
http://physics911.net/mitchell/

[maxsolomon]

148. I'm not going to convince you, even if i was the world's foremost metalurgist.

So just go on believing crazy shit like everyone else on this thread.

[nolabels]

150. Convince me water is wet

Dude, i work with the stuff everyday, and if the hypothesis those pencil headed engineers came up with were true then my job and employment would probably be a lot different. Get this, if it were true that petroleum base fuels could burn through steel structures then most of automobiles could hardly make it off the showroom floor. This is not theory, this is fact proved a TRILLIONS times everyday.

Figure it out and tell me how i am wrong

[nationalize the fed]

149. Steel from WTC 7

which was never hit by a plane or drenched by jet fuel



NIST Engineer John Gross poses by a steel beam from WTC 7.

Steel which was shipped to China and melted down. Destruction of a crime scene is a crime.

We can't examine it now, isn't that a shame.

[nolabels]

151. Proof the steel was cut with something hot!

Sounds like good evidence to me

(snip)
FAQ #8: What Is Nanothermite? Could It Have Been Used To Demolish The WTC Skyscrapers?

News - News Releases By AE911Truth
Thursday, 19 July 2012 20:49

In order to understand what nanothermite is, we first must understand what ordinary commercial thermite is. Thermite is a mixture of a metal and the oxide of another metal, usually aluminum (Al) and iron oxide (Fe2O3), in a granular or powder form. When ignited, the energetic Al-Fe thermite reaction produces molten iron and aluminum oxide, with the molten iron reaching temperatures well in excess of 4000° F. These temperatures are certainly high enough to allow cuts through structural steel, which generally has a melting point of around 2750° F.
There is also a variant of thermite known as thermate, which is a combination of thermite and sulfur, and is more efficient at cutting through steel. This form of thermite is believed to have been used in the demolition of World Trade Center Building 7. Although conventional thermite has the capability to cut through structural steel, it is technically an incendiary and not an explosive.
Nanothermite (also known as superthermite), simply put, is an ultra-fine-grained (UFG) variant of thermite that can be formulated to be explosive by adding gas-releasing substances. A general rule in chemistry is that the smaller the particles of the reactants, the faster the reaction. Nanothermite, as the name suggests, is thermite in which the particles are so small that they are measured in nanometers (one billionth of a meter). The authors of the peer-reviewed Active Thermitic Materials paper, which documents the discovery of these materials in the WTC dust, explain
(snip)
(snip)
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (AE911Truth) is a non-profit non-partisan organization of architects, engineers and affiliates dedicated to exposing the falsehoods and to revealing facts about the complete destruction of all three World Trade Center high-rises on September 11, 2001.
Our organization is devoted to:
■ Dispelling misinformation and disinformation with scientific facts and forensic evidence
■ Educating and motivating thousands of architects and engineers as well as the public at large
■ Obtaining a truly independent WTC investigation with subpoena power
■ Achieving mainstream media coverage for our cause
(snip)
http://www1.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/646-faq-8-what-is-nanothermite-could-it-have-been-used-to-demolish-the-wtc-skyscrapers.html

[librechik]

152. sorry but that is BS.

I have had people claim they were personal friends with the building manager. I've had close relatives tell me that their friend, and emergency manager, said this or that.

Not believing any of you.

I've seen the actual structural engineer on video talking about how WTC was designed specifically to withstand just such an impact times 3. And steel melts in a specialized oxygenated FURNACE at 2400 degrees. Not accidentally in a building fire.

Now laugh at me, but you are just spreading nonsense.

[nikto]

94. False. Flag. Attack.

[Chrisdutch]

97. 9/11

The investigation was delayed and done by lawyers. Lawyers always get the wrong answers when they ask the wrong questions.

[nationalize the fed]

98. Most people don't even know that NIST had to admit they were wrong

about WTC 7 free falling for ~3 seconds. How does that happen?

Watch NIST's Shyam Sunder and John Gross squirm trying to answer a question from a high school physics teacher

Parts 2 and 3

http://9-11justice.com/wtc7-free-fall/

[Scientific]

146. + 1

[Hairy Harry Potlover]

105. Because.....

we were never told anything truthful in the first place!

[Scientific]

127. + 1

Treason most foul.

[AngryAmish]

126. Well, some powerful global nonprofits depend on gulf Arab donations.

[YoungDemCA]

138. And wealthy Saudis - including members of the royal family - are major investors in the U.S. economy

They own a lot of land, buildings, etc. here. They have a lot of leverage on us, in both economic and geopolitical terms.

[YoungDemCA]

137. The House of Saud and their Wahhabist allies sponsor all kinds of heinous shit in the name of Islam

Specifically, a fanatically puritanical form of Sunni Islam. Hell, the royal family's legitimacy is entirely dependent on the Wahhabist clerics that support them. The idea there was both direct and indirect assistance from members of the House of Saud to members of al-Qaeda - including at least some of the 9/11 hijackers - is not at all far-fetched (if anything, it's the worst-kept secret in Washington).

Of course, the U.S. government has also sponsored terrorists around the world in the name of "democracy" (see: the CIA during the Cold War). Our government is in a glass house on this. Pretty damn awful.

[Scientific]

139. The Republicans completely failed America before, during & after 9/11

I dare call it treason.

[AliceWonderland]

142. I've wondered the same thing. A lot of politically and economically powerful people had much to gain

I suppose, from not digging too deep and exhorting people to just move on, already.

[Ichingcarpenter]

145. A almost empty aluminum tube penatrates 5 walls

of harden steel reinforced concrete walls


An aluminum tube ............. yeah that's the ticket.

[CJCRANE]

147. I like how the gatekeepers

keep kicking this thread.