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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCatholic/Religious Run Hospitals Need To Be Decertified.
Catholic hospitals or religious hospitals need to be decertified as health care providers because their policies endanger pregnant women. Women who go to Catholic hospitals risk death or injury if they have a problem pregnancy. Under Catholic dogma the life of the mother is secondary and will be allowed to even die rather than end a problem pregnancy. Plus women needed their tubes tied because future pregnancy will be a danger to their life will be denied such procedure.
Catholic hospitals must sacrifice the life of the mother rather then end a dangerous pregnancy even if the fetus is not likely o survive. Even ectopic pregnancies must continue until the last possible moment.
It is religious tyranny to force non believers to be denied service over religious beliefs.
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Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)That is my humble opinion.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)scary thought banning Religous Schools. Had my best time there . smh
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Religions should be chosen by adults, not indoctrinated into children.
But religious organizations won't have that: it would be the end of their racket.
1939
(1,683 posts)Many, many years ago. The court ruled that the Roman Catholic Church could continue to operate a separate school system and that the parents with children in the system were not in violation of the compulsory attendance laws.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)1939
(1,683 posts)Which as a Quaker school in DC that educated Chelsea Clinton and Malia and Sasha Obama. If you did away with that parochial school, the three of them might have had to deal with the proles in the DC school system.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)1939
(1,683 posts)There were as many Catholic high schools in the city as there were public high schools. I always attended public high schools as my parents through the pope was the "devil", but other than some envy at the fact that they got more holidays than we did, I am not sure that my Catholic educated friends were all that different than me. Later when I met some assholes who had been to Choate and other shithead places, I realized the difference between the proles and the elite.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)The worst would be Britain where apparently, at High School level, all the good schools are run by Catholics or Protestants, the state/secular High Schools being distinctly of lower quality.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)
Merlot
(9,696 posts)And they added my address to their marketing mailing list. I get entreaties to donate to their hospital, newsletters, notices of upcoming screening events, etc.
It should not be legal for hospitals to access patient information for general marketing purposes. And it this case, I wasn't even a patient. It's a ridiculous invasion of privacy.
And if I were to choose a hospital I would not choose a religious one for the reasons you've stated above.
LiberalFighter
(50,942 posts)If so, you need to decide how to handle that.
If not, do a letter writing and social media campaign. To the newspaper and your insurance carrier for the letter writing.
titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)I know first hand that what you say isn't true. Our OBGYN was not a Catholic and was in full control of what went down in the hospital. You know not of what you speak.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)doesn't mean it isn't generally, or even ever, true.
The Catholic Church has no business running hospitals, and their doctrine does sometimes cause terrible consequences when doing so.
titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)It's entirely real, sadly, and was caused by the takeover by Catholics of the second of the two general hospitals in an area where my first wife and I used to live (the other area hospital there had already been owned by the Catholics, when they took over the second one we had no choice without driving for an hour). Catholic doctrine, in our case, was the precise cause of the trouble.
mrmpa
(4,033 posts)my aunt who was in her late '30's was pregnant. She was having some problems and was transported to the local hospital, which was a Catholic hospital. My mom tells me that she & her mother went to the hospital, they could walk to it. The doctor came out to talk to everyone and said "the baby will be fine". My mother looked at the doctor and said 'what about my sister?" The doctor's answer was that "it didn't matter, as long at the baby is ok."
My aunt ended up losing the baby during that hospital stay, and mom says that they nearly lost my aunt also. Mom further says that the doctors really weren't concerned about my aunt.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)large hospital chains - sometimes all the hospitals in a region or area so that women have no other option than to receive care at a Catholic-run hospital...
D Gary Grady
(133 posts)In November 2009 a 27-year-old mother of four was admitted to St Joseph's Hospital in Phoenix AZ suffering a serious cardiopulmonary condition. Doctors concluded that the only way to save her life was to end her 11-week pregnancy that was killing her. Because this was a Catholic hospital, it had to be approved by an ethics committee, which I'm glad to say did grant permission. By that point the patient was so near death that there was no time to move her to an operating room (let alone a secular hospital), and the abortion had to be performed where she was. Fortunately she survived.
But saving her life was immediately denounced by the Catholic Church. As the director of medical ethics for the local diocese explained, it is immoral to do evil even with the intent to do good. You might suppose he meant it would have been evil to withhold lifesaving medical treatment just to prevent the abortion of a fetus that would not have survived anyway, but he meant the opposite, that one cannot perform an abortion even to save a woman's life. Note that we're not talking about prioritizing the life of the mother over that of the fetus. Remember, the fetus wasn't going to live either way. The only question was whether to prioritize human life over arcane doctrine that treats a question of life and death as if it were a technical puzzle involving the rules of baseball.
The Church even demanded that St Joseph's hospital announce that it would never again save a woman's life under such circumstances. Otherwise it would be decertified as a Catholic hospital. The hospital, as I recall, told them to go bless themselves and said under the same circumstances it would do the same thing. I don't know whether the Church found a face-saving way to back down, but they did at least eventually reverse the excommunication of a nun on the ethics committee who had voted in favor of not letting the patient die.
A parallel case in Ireland had a far more tragic ending. In 2012 a pregnant woman, a dentist, was admitted to a Galway hospital in the process of having a miscarriage. The doctors acknowledged that the fetus was not viable and continuation of the pregnancy was endangering the woman's life, but when she and her husband pleaded for the pregnancy to be terminated the doctors refused because, one of them said, "This is a Catholic country." After days of suffering the women finally died, and so of course did the fetus.
To be clear, I'm not anti-Catholic, and I suspect the vast majority of Catholics reject the Church's official position in such matters. But Catholic hospitals and their managers are supposed to follow Catholic instructions in such matters under pain of excommunication. I'm glad the hospital in Phoenix rejected that immoral teaching and chose life (what a beautiful choice) over what would at the very least have been deliberate negligent homicide.
titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)I did grow up Catholic and I'm happy I am no longer. I wonder though how many Catholic Doctors in a non-Catholic church make these types of decisions anyway?
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/18/michigan-catholic-hospital-women-miscarriage-abortion-mercy-health-partners
The report, by a former Muskegon County health official, Faith Groesbeck, accuses Mercy Health Partners of forcing five women between August 2009 and December 2010 to undergo dangerous miscarriages by giving them no other option.
All five women, the report says, had symptoms indicating that it would be safest for them to deliver immediately. But instead of informing the women of their options, the report says, or offering to transfer them to a different hospital, doctors – apparently out of deference to the Mercy Health Partners’ strict ban on abortion – unilaterally decided to subject the women to prolonged miscarriages.
Hospital refuses to do tubal ligation after C-section:
http://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/Lawsuit-tests-religious-hospitals-right-to-6461051.php
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)This country would be in deep trouble and could not help the population. And no we cannot afford to run hundreds more government run hospitals.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)can't provide all the care necessary for the community due to ideological reasons.
Sam_Fields
(305 posts)Your Doctor signed a contract that forbids him from doing certain procedures at the Catholic hospital.
titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)
nini
(16,672 posts)They do indeed refuse to do certain things and definitely their dogma comes first.
That doesn't mean things that aren't against their beliefs aren't done.
didn't.
So you're the one who does not know of what you speak.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)rather than ending a pregnancy?
Flatpicker
(894 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)He's on a narrative.
?1430159046
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The result was exactly what you see at Catholic hospitals in the US where rules created by RCC Bishops are exactly the same. The mother is monitored and only receives an abortion when and if she starts to show signs of distress. The only difference here is they haven't managed to kill anyone yet, but it's really just a matter of time. There are several cases where women right here in the US in Catholic hospitals have experienced severe complications because the hospitals didn't act in the best interests of the patient.
So the only real question is are we going to wait until a Catholic hospital kills someone before change happens as it did in Ireland.
moriah
(8,311 posts).... even when there's no hope of a good outcome, it is going to happen in the US -- they're going to gamble wrong.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/revealed-women-endure-prolonged-miscarriages-thanks-to-michigan-catholic-hospitals-abortion-ban/
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I just think people should stick to the facts in their arguments and not think that hyperbole will make their arguments stronger. i've never heard of a case of a hospital in this country allowing a mother to die rather than ending a pregnancy. If there is such a case I'd think the media would have been all over it.
Triana
(22,666 posts)Flatpicker
(894 posts)Do you have any citations to back up the accusations?
You are making a very large recommendation here. I'd like to know if the evidence exists to show that you are correct.
Can you provide any evidence that these hospitals, who are also taking government money for their services have forced non believers to be denied service over religious beliefs.
DVRacer
(707 posts)Because there are some places Catholic hospitals are the only ones for miles. This would cause some to go without care during crucial windows of opportunity to save other lives. Be careful sometimes you get what you ask for and the alternative can be much worse.
Socal31
(2,484 posts)But we need every bed we can get in this country.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)
No Vested Interest
(5,167 posts)obstetrical services.
As far as I know they have radiological departments, oncology departments, general surgery, orthopedic departments, pediatric departments, etc., etc.
Shall the communities these hospitals serve lose these services as well?
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Sure, people will die needlessly, but that's a sacrifice some people are willing to make. We sure don't like it when Republican-controlled legislatures pass bogus women's health laws to put clinics out of business, but who says two can't play that lethal game? It's not like you or anyone you know or love (probably) will die if this lunatic proposal is put into action, and it'll teach those stone-brained Republican repressives a good lesson.
No Vested Interest
(5,167 posts)of the OP has apparently stepped away.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)but don't say anything negative a bout Islam, even ISIS. You cannot judge all Muslims by the actions of a few. That is only reserved for Christians, predominately Roman Rite Catholics. Also, the Pope always speaks ex-Cathedra and stupid Catholics believe he is infallible. He likes to watch women die while denying them life-saving abortions.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I am espousing a reality of DU. Catholics = BAD. Is that not the point of this thread?
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)
dembotoz
(16,806 posts)must start with a complaint being filed
to whom and where?
rug
(82,333 posts)I assume it's as much an error as this other statement of yours:
alarimer
(16,245 posts)As if common sense weren't enough to make you frightened of Catholic Hospitals.
https://www.aclu.org/report/miscarriage-medicine?redirect=report/miscarriage-medicine-growth-catholic-hospitals-and-threat-reproductive-health-care
In fact, Googling brings up many such articles for those who aren't too lazy to look. Suffice it to say, the Catholic Church thinks it knows better than you do about your own medical decisions. It's not just about needed abortions; it's also about end-of-life decision, advanced directives, DNRs and other things.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Thank you. Religion has no place in healthcare, politics or education. Period.
dembotoz
(16,806 posts)Flatpicker
(894 posts)Don't appreciate the snark, but do appreciate the report.
I simply don't think it is the readers responsibility to have to provide support for the OPs statement. If you are going to propose something, you should have done the work to show you know what you are talking about.
Remember that you are trying to convince the reader. You have to bring the research to support your opening statement.
melm00se
(4,993 posts)1 in 6 hospital beds in the USA are "catholic" beds.
Decertifying them would immediately remove 17% of the available beds from the US healthcare system.
so 17% of the:
Cardiac beds
Orthopedic beds
Oncology beds
etc
gone overnight.
how long does it take to get approvals to increase the number of beds on secular hospitals? I seriously doubt that secular hospitals are going to act immediately to spend the money to grow their bed counts because I can guarantee you that the negative impacted hospitals would immediately file suit (and more than likely receive an injunction to to prevent this from happening pending a ruling by the court which could take years).
dembotoz
(16,806 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)
ileus
(15,396 posts)If this is such a big problem seek an OB that practices at another hospital.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)With the medical decisions of patients and doctors?
Sam_Fields
(305 posts)have that procedure here. So the patient has to go miles away at their own cost.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)
milestogo
(16,829 posts)will not be offered emergency contraception. Since most women don't want a child by their rapist, its a waste of time to even go there.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)I suppose a pregnancy could be exotic, but I'm not sure how. 
HoustonDave
(60 posts)Statement from SISTER CAROL KEEHAN, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CATHOLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION (published Dec 15 in a Dear Abby column on the subject):
You asserted that it is Catholic policy to save the life of the baby over the mother in obstetrical emergencies. Abby, that is one of the oldest but most persistent pieces of misinformation out there! This inaccurate statement has been replayed even in movies in spite of repeated denials by Catholic hospitals and the professionals who render care in them.
The fact is: Catholic policy is abundantly clear on the dignity of both mother and baby, and makes no priority of one over the other. Catholic hospitals operate with the same standards of safety in maternity care and are inspected by the same organizations that inspect non-Catholic maternity programs such as the Joint Commission and the licensing agency of each state.
pstokely
(10,528 posts)with overpaid administrators, difference is they're tax exempt
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)to a third party, who patients are NOT made aware of the fact that they run Mercy's ERs. Mercy is technically non-profit and has a pledge to only go after those who can pay their bills and forgive others. This company is under no such obligation, and will happily set the debt collectors loose against extremely poor people who used Mercy's emergency rooms.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)No priests in the delivery room...just doctors...and they call the shots.
