Allergies: How far do we need to go to protect people with allgeries?

[Bettie]

The post about the family on the plane suggested this, but I've wondered before.

Usually, all we hear about are peanut allergies, but I'm pretty sure that there are other allergies out there as well.

So, should public places be purged of all potential allergens?

Is it the responsibility of allergic individuals or their parents (if they are children) to deal with them?

Someplace in between?

How should restaurants handle this as cross-contamination is highly likely in a busy kitchen preparing many different dishes at one time?

Schools? Should all be peanut free? What about other allergens, should schools purge these from their menus as well? How about kids who bring their lunches from home? What kind of rules should be instituted?

Not an exhaustive list of thoughts, but I am honestly interested in finding out what people think should happen.

I'd also say, I have no food allergies, nor does anyone in my extended family. My husband and sons are allergic to penicillin, but that can be avoided easily, so I don't really have enough personal knowledge/experience to say what precautions should be taken overall.

[Buzz Clik]

1. For the sake of those who suffer extreme reactions from bee stings...

... is it necessary for me to keep my pet bees at home?

[Bettie]

6. You should keep your bees at home

and how does one transport pet bees? Do you have tiny leashes?

[TipTok]

114. Tiny shock collars and an invisible fence...

[Bettie]

118. LOL

Now I have THAT image in my head.

[trumad]

2. On a flight the other day

where they announced no peanuts would be served because one passenger had a peanut allergy.

Made me think...did they have to prove it with a Doctors note? If not...it seems anyone can say it just to mess with people.

[Bettie]

8. That makes sense

though I have not had peanuts served to me on a plane in years!

[csziggy]

17. It's been decades since I've flown

1990, in fact. But the airlines made the various legs of the trip so unpleasant I haven't flown since.

One of the things that was seriously irritating was that there was no room in the overhead storage bins for my carry on - they were FULL of packs of peanuts. But NO peanuts or any other snack was offered on that leg of the trip. I'm not sure who those peanuts were intended for but it was offensive to see the bins packed full and to never get a snack!

[RobinA]

54. I Was Just Served

peanuts on a plane on Saturday! I was surprised, but happily ate them.

[TacoD]

70. Delta offers them every time I fly (nt)

[LisaM]

101. Delta has them, but I was once on a Delta flight that announced it was peanut-free

I assume an affected family had contacted them ahead of time, which seems like a reasonable compromise to me. Just don't let them know as you're boarding.

[unblock]

28. no note, though we did show our epi's to the flight crew.

i don't recall if that was a requirement or not.

having said that, the problem of people just saying it to "mess with people" strikes me as the same sort of non-problem that anti-trans people bathroom bills are based on.

[Iggo]

3. Try not to kill people.

It's nice when you do that.

[Bettie]

4. But how far does that go?

I don't think anyone sets out to trigger an allergic reaction.

Is it the responsibility of the person with the allergy/allergies to let people know and/or take precautions to avoid triggering their allergies or do we need to remove potential allergens from the food chain?

[Iggo]

9. Depends on how many lives your convenience is worth.

You give a shit or you don't.

Or more accurately, you give a shit until you don't.

[Bettie]

12. So, individuals who are not aware of allergies

should assume everyone they meet to be allergic and...what? Never eat or serve peanuts in any situation?

What about other allergic reaction causing foods? How do we get rid of everything someone might be allergic to?

It isn't about convenience or not caring, it is about the line between responsibilities...what is the responsibility of the person with allergies and what is the responsibility of society at large?

[Iggo]

47. Where did I say that?

[Bettie]

49. You seem to be indicating

that you believe people don't care if others die.

That is simply not true for the vast majority of people.

The question is where the line is drawn between the responsibility of the allergic and others.

For example: If Sally is allergic to peanuts and is planning to attend an event at a restaurant, in my mind, she should call and explain that she has this allergy and would like a peanut free meal.

If the restaurant agrees to accommodate her, from that point, it is their responsibility to ensure that her food is indeed peanut free.

But, had Sally not called ahead and simply arrived and announced that she needed a peanut free meal on the spot, the restaurant may not have been able to make those changes, or they may have been able to, but it wouldn't be assured either way and it wouldn't be the restaurant's fault either way.

If Sally had arrived and never said a word about her allergy and had a reaction to something on her plate, that is 100% on Sally for assuming that everything was safe.

So, again, where do you believe that "line" of responsibility lies? Is it with society or with the allergic person?

I'm still not clear on what you think at all.

[Iggo]

50. Nope.

What I was "indicating" is that it's a sliding scale.

And when I said "you", I meant you.

[Bettie]

52. Wait you think I don't care if people die?

because I asked a question?

WTF?

[Iggo]

75. I don't think that and I didn't say that.

[Maedhros]

93. Well, to be fair, you aren't really saying ANYTHING in your posts.

You're just dropping one-liners that are dismissive of and vaguely insulting to the OP.

[Iggo]

105. That's pretty fair.

My original comment was just a throw-away, and now that I look at it from the outside, yes it was dismissive.

[Yo_Mama]

147. Well, of course the person with the allergies has to let people know!!

It is not possible to remove all potential allergens from the food chain. There would be just about nothing left.

People have life-threatening allergies to wheat, all nuts, soy, milk, eggs, etc.

And then there are those with latex allergies. We can't get rid of all latex either.

[trotsky]

69. You bet it is.

Here are the 8 most common food allergens.

Peanuts
Tree nuts
Milk
Eggs
Wheat
Soy
Fish
Shellfish

To what extent should we eliminate these items from all human diets in order to prevent killing anyone?

[Iggo]

74. Zero.

[trotsky]

78. Zero as in we should eliminate all food products with those ingredients?

Or zero as in we should make no accommodations for those allergic to one or more of them?

[Iggo]

79. Zero as in to that extent should we eliminate those foods from all human diets.

[trotsky]

81. OK, just trying to make sense of your suggestion that we should try not to kill people.

Because eliminating those items would definitely save lives, wouldn't it?

[TipTok]

115. It's on them...

Their problem... Their responsibility to avoid it...

Absolutely not my problem...

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

129. Accommodation doesn't really work

As soon as someone with a life-threatening allergy begins to depend on others accommodating his allergy, he is putting his own life at risk.

Being close to someone with a deathly peanut allergy, I know that this is the only way to stay safe. Period. You can't assume that your best friend who knows about your allergy didn't forget to cook something with peanuts in it. Or use an ingredient that was manufactured in a processing plant with peanuts. EVERY single time you rely on the cooking of others, you must question them at length.

[laundry_queen]

135. Absolutely

My brother has a life-threatening allergy to fish. He's had enough close calls because people don't know wtf has fish in it. You'd be fucking surprised at how many sauces use anchovies as flavoring. And how many people don't know that anchovies are fish. My brother still has friends that will make him Cesar salad on a visit (hint: the dressing is made with anchovies) My brother eats out a LOT and has learned he just has to avoid sauces and handmade dressings altogether. He sticks to basic foods. He stays away from anything fried...so many times he's had a reaction because something as basic as french fries are cooked in the same oil as some breaded fish.

Stranger even though is that he can eat shellfish just fine. It's weird to go out and have him ask for the lobster & shrimp dinner and then ask them to make sure it doesn't come into contact with any fish.

At any rate, my brother never trusts what they are saying, and if he's in doubt about something, he'll push it aside. It's not worth it (he's extra careful because he refuses to carry around an epipen, but that's another discussion for another time. He says an OTC allergy med keeps him well enough until he gets to the ER. I think he's fucking crazy but we never did get along lol.)

[womanofthehills]

5. A big problem is more and more kids are getting peanut allergies

The prevalence of peanut allergy among children in the United States has risen more than threefold, to 1.4 percent in 2010 from 0.4 percent in 1997, according to a study by food allergists at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Many people with an allergy to peanuts are also allergic to one or more tree nuts, like walnuts, pecans or almonds.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/03/as-peanut-allergies-rise-trying-to-determine-a-cause/?_r=0

[LisaM]

103. I agree that we really need to study the rise of life-threatening allergies

I respect other peoples' allergies and even preferences (I have a high intolerance to seafood, though I don't want to mis-label it as an allergy, because I just get sick, nothing life-threatening). But there seems to be quite a rise and I think it's really worth figuring out why.

[womanofthehills]

127. 4% to 6% of American children have a food allergy according to CDC

[div class="excerpt"
Food allergies are a growing food safety and public health concern that affect an estimated 4%–6% of children in the United States.1, 2 Allergic reactions can be life threatening and have far-reaching effects on children and their families, as well as on the schools or early care and education (ECE) programs they attend. Staff who work in schools and ECE programs should develop plans for preventing an allergic reaction and responding to a food allergy emergency.

Eight foods or food groups account for 90% of serious allergic reactions in the United States: milk, eggs, fish, crustacean shellfish, wheat, soy, peanuts, and tree nuts.

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyschools/foodallergies/index.htm

[Happyhippychick]

7. I think that this is an analogy for how parents are parenting these days

They expect the world to accommodate for their children's allergies. Schools shouldn't allow students to have peanuts. Or dairy. Or wheat. Or shellfish. Or maybe a child has an issue with honey, we should police all of the school lunches to make sure nobody brings it in.

Instead of teaching the child to advocate for him/herself, the parents step in and demand that everyone else be the protectors. Therefore these kids grow up with no ability to deal with adversary because the parents have convinced them that society will be understanding and protective. And when society isn't understanding and protective these kids just melt away.

FYI, my child and husband both have peanut allergies. He has survived 53 years without the world accommodating him, he has learned how to deal with it. He is the one who is insistent that the classroom our daughter was in would not deny the other kids what they wanted to eat in order to accommodate her because he knows that it's 1) not realistic and 2) not anyone else's job and 3) actually dangerous because it gives a false sense of security when you expect other parents to read labels because your kid has an allergy.

Rant over now.

[Bettie]

10. I can see a peanut free classroom or lunchroom table

for very young children at school as little ones can have a hard time recognizing products that might have allergens in them, but once they reach, probably about third grade, I would think they would be able to be aware and able to manage on their own.

I am very much in favor of kids advocating for themselves in most situations as much as they are developmentally able to do so. Makes for more resilient adults.

[Happyhippychick]

13. My husband would disagree

He is emphatic that it has to be taught from an extremely young age, you can't wait until kids are 8 to start advocating for their own health. Most well-meaning parents are not going to read every food label to make sure that their child's food won't affect your child's health. Kids have to be taught not to share when they have a food allergy. If parents put off teaching them until they are older then the lesson doesn't imprint as well.

I get what you are saying from a theoretical standpoint but I'm not there in practicality. I can't ask other parents to protect my child, I have to be the one who does it.

[Bettie]

15. Ok. I see where you are coming from

But, ensuring that teachers/lunchroom monitors are aware to remind about not sharing would be a good idea too, since little kids are little kids.

And your "line" about responsibility is that it falls on the allergic party primarily, to make sure that they are aware of their allergy and what triggers it and taking precautions to avoid that.

Thanks for responding with your personal experience.

[Happyhippychick]

18. My pleasure. I know it isn't the politically correct answer but it is something we feel

strongly about.

Excellent discussion!

[Bettie]

21. Agreed, excellent discussion

and I know virtually nothing about living with allergies beyond taking some stuff a couple of times a year for mild seasonal allergies.

Thanks so much for helping me understand.

[womanofthehills]

128. It is not that simple

Look at this poor boys story.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/frankston-hospital-probes-food-allergy-related-death-of-louis-tate-20151211-gllv08.html

[4Q2u2]

29. Science is on his side

Not that the classroom should be the controlled environment but latest studies show that exposure is one of the best ways to even help peanut allergies.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/02/23/peanut-allergy-cure/23883241/

http://time.com/3719341/peanut-allergy-cure-treatment/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lianne-mandelbaum/peanut-allergy-cure_b_6612384.html

[Bettie]

32. Interesting

saved to read later.

[TCJ70]

99. Yep...we started exposing our daughter to peanut products as early as we could...

...she's been eating it since about 6 months old. She's one out of how many millions so not exactly a good sample but our doctors actually recommended we expose her young.

[unblock]

37. kids with allergies have to advocate from themselves, but schools also need to monitor

schools are full of wonderful people but also bullies and pranksters and kids who just don't know better.

peanuts and peanut butter are very readily available lethal weapons that can be used against anyone with a peanut allergy.

self-reliance is absolutely necessary, i agree; but awareness and enforcement by school authorities or anyone else in a position of care for minors with life-threatening allergies is also essential.

[Happyhippychick]

38. Yes, I agree. The kids need to advocate, the schools need to be aware and enforce.

very well put.

[snooper2]

86. Solution has already been found

[scscholar]

126. I prefer the John Travolta version...

of the boy in the bubble.

[Mnpaul]

140. I think that is more likely the problem

children being raised in a sanitized environment.

[snooper2]

144. yep, my daughter never went to daycare..just dance and gymnastics classes before kindergarten

Her first couple weeks she got every sniffle and cough possible

Her immune system is much better after this first year of school

[Mnpaul]

145. That's good to hear

I grew up on farm and was exposed to all sorts of things when I was young. I have few allergies and have a strong immune system. I can't handle stinky perfume but have no problem with all sorts of industrial chemicals.

[womanofthehills]

11. I avoid peanuts because I don't want to eat aflatoxins

Dry roasted peanuts are the safest - broken nuts the worse. Peanut butters can be high in aflatoxins too. Probably won't hurt you, but every bit of toxic food adds up.

http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/substances/aflatoxins

[cleanhippie]

20. That seems like an irrational fear to me.

From your link...

To date, no outbreak of human illness caused by aflatoxins has been reported in the United States

[LanternWaste]

30. Seems more a benign concern and less an irrational fear to me.

Seems more a benign concern and less an irrational fear to me.

[cleanhippie]

34. Considering that there is virtually ZERO risk in this country from this...

Being concerned over it appears quite irrational.

[womanofthehills]

77. Being aflatoxins are carcinogens, I choose not to consume them

Seems like the risk is higher in animal feed.

Because aflatoxins, especially aflatoxin B1, are potent carcinogens in some animals, there is interest in the effects of long-term exposure to low levels of these important mycotoxins on humans . In 1988, the IARC placed aflatoxin B1 on the list of human carcinogens. This is supported by a number of epidemiological studies done in Asia and Africa that have demonstrated a positive association between dietary aflatoxins and Liver Cell Cancer (LCC) . Additionally, the expression of aflatoxin-related diseases in humans may be influenced by factors such as age, sex, nutritional status, and/or concurrent exposure to other causative agents such as viral hepatitis (HBV) or parasite infestation.

http://poisonousplants.ansci.cornell.edu/toxicagents/aflatoxin/aflatoxin.html

[mercuryblues]

14. My sisters

and I all have shellfish allergies. My younger one has it the worst She can't eat fries where they also deep fry seafood. She always asks if they cook them in the same fryer. You would not believe how many times they lie about that, even knowing she has an allergy.

So how far should people go to protect those with allergies. I would suggest a good start is to stop lying about how food is prepared.

[Bettie]

16. Lying about how food is prepared

is just wrong and, yes, could kill someone.

That seems like the very least someone could do.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. A manslaughter trial has just started in Britain

Easingwold peanut death: Indian Garden owner 'put lives at risk', court hears

Paul Wilson, 38, suffered a severe anaphylactic shock in January 2014 after eating a takeaway from the Indian Garden in Easingwold, North Yorkshire.
...
The court was told "no nuts" was written on the order chit and on the lid of the curry he took to his home in Helperby, near Thirsk.
...
Richard Wright QC, prosecuting, told the court Mr Zaman had swapped from using almond powder to the cheaper groundnut powder, containing peanuts, in June 2013.

Despite a warning from his supplier, the prosecutor said, the restaurateur did not warn customers he was using peanut ingredients.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-36248467

[Bettie]

51. Now there, a simple

note on the menu would have been enough to warn people. This guy didn't care if he killed someone and that is wrong.

[womanofthehills]

82. Constant government recalls about peanuts in products

not listed as an ingredient. I think there were almost 50 last year.

[FLPanhandle]

19. I would suspect most servers wouldn't even know

Also, they may have been telling the truth, but grease from one fryer can be emptied and reused in another. The server may just be unaware instead of lying.

[mercuryblues]

22. So when they

say the will check on it and come back and say no, somewhere someone is lying.

They didn't ask or they did and were lied to.

[Bettie]

24. If someone is lying that is

wrong. In any situation.

[FLPanhandle]

27. In the fryer example, they may have answered honestly to the best of their knowledge.

The fry cook knows there are two separate fryers but may not know that the oil is exchanged. They may not know that someone in the shift before fried shrimp in the french fry basket due to a rush.

Having worked in a kitchen once, unless it's a high end restaurant, cooks are not folks to depend on for your health choices.

Of course, they could have deliberately lied too.

[womanofthehills]

85. Not necessarily lying - many sauces and processed foods are recalled each year

because they contain peanuts not listed on ingredients

[Bettie]

23. That is a fair point too

So, a reasonable precaution for a restaurant would be to make sure people are aware that grease is likely to have handled seafood...or for the person eating to assume that if they serve seafood, the grease is cross-contaminated.

[HuckleB]

97. A rushed employee could fail to follow procedures in a busy restaurant, also...

... food fear mongers have recommended that people lie to their servers about food allergies in order to avoid things that are fine for them, but that they perceive as somehow bad. The whole ugliness of the "food movement" has now made things even worse.

[WinkyDink]

26. If I had a severe food allergy, I would avoid any food-purveyor where trust was involved.

[mercuryblues]

33. Never eating out is fun.

Especially on vacation. The obvious like Bonefish, red Lobster and Cpt D's are out of the question. Then you go by trial and error. IOW there are many chain and local restaurants on the no-go list, which is longer than the ok places to eat.

[Bettie]

44. I imagine that is really

difficult and makes it hard to be spontaneous.

It sucks and I am truly sorry that you have this to deal with.

[Yo_Mama]

148. I live that life. I have to be very careful since an acute reaction when I was a kid.

People who have the tendency to develop allergies have to cope with it, and not eating out and not eating much in the way of processed foods is part of that.

The bright side is that we normally end up eating a much healthier diet.

[RobinA]

56. This Is Why

people have to take their own precautions. To my mind, best just not to eat fries than to hope the workers are telling the truth. Or even know, for that matter.

I am not a person with allergies, but I always find it weird when people who do ask the waiter if some food has X in it. I cannot imagine trusting my ability to draw breath to what somebody says is or is not in the food. Hell, I hate, but am not allergic to, cheese, and I know how many times I ask for something to be served without cheese and it comes complete with cheese. About half the time.

[womanofthehills]

92. I have an sensitivity to sulfites in foods and medicines

I never eat fried potatoes at a restaurant - they are dipped in sulfites before being frozen. No wine for me or dried fruits with sulfites.
When I go out to eat, I try to order simple foods with no sauces.

I think I developed this sensitivity after working for years with sodium sulfite in my photo darkroom.

[LisaM]

104. I have had that problem too! Seafood restaurants are actaully better about knowing this

It's restaurants where they occasionally feature shrimp or something and don't even think about using a different fryer where the disconnect comes in. I've become sick twice at restaurants because of this.

The other thing to look out for is fish sauce in Asian food, it almost always has shrimp, and it's such a staple in Thai food that they don't even think about it. I got sick from eating a so-called vegetarian entrée once because fish sauce was an ingredient and they just didn't list it.

[womanofthehills]

125. I'm allergic to shrimp - restaurant was cooking burgers and shrimp on same grill

They were very nice and cooked my burger in a skillet.

[cleanhippie]

25. A better question: How far do people with allgeries need to go to protect themselves?

Answer: As far as you need to given the severity of your allergy.

Telling a flight crew and one hundred people as you're buckling into your seat that you need to be accommodated for your peanut allergy is NOT how you protect yourself.

[Bettie]

31. I agree there

as a parent, if my child had a severe allergy, I'd have made arrangements well beforehand to ensure that things went smoothly.

I've seen many articles about people with allergies and accommodation for them and I've noted that there seem to be multiple viewpoints over whose responsibility it is to deal with issues that rise from it.

It seems to me, personally, coming from a not-very-educated standpoint that the responsibility is primarily on the individual to ask beforehand if accommodation can be made and secondarily to the people who indicated that accommodation can be made to ensure that it is done correctly, so as not to endanger someone who has placed their trust in them.

[cleanhippie]

35. I think you just answered your own question.

Allergies: How far do we need to go to protect people with allgeries?

the responsibility is primarily on the individual to ask beforehand if accommodation can be made and secondarily to the people who indicated that accommodation can be made to ensure that it is done correctly, so as not to endanger someone who has placed their trust in them.

[matt819]

36. How's this for a concept

If you have an allergy, you take responsibility for it.

Sure, restaurants should, out of decency (if not by law), note that they prepare and process food that people may be allergic to. From that point on, it's the customer's responsibility. If such information is not apparent, then it's the consumer's responsibility to ask. This need not be confrontational. A simple question and answer. Like the scene in Portlandia when Fred and Carrie ask to meet the farmer who raised their free range, organic chicken.

Processed food sold in the supermarket states that they are prepared in facilities that also process nuts, milk, whatever. Again, it's up the customer to decide what to do.

For kids, it's the parents' responsibility to notify the school of a child's allergies and to come up with a plan to deal with this. I guess some schools ban latex balloons and pb&j sandwiches to accommodate childrens' allergies. I would say that's going too far, but I suppose it's better to be cautious.

If you are sufficiently allergic to bee stings, for example, it's your responsibility to have an epi pen, or whatever, to respond to a threat.

Personal responsibility and communication. Is that so hard to grasp?

[unblock]

40. just keep in mind that if peanuts were introduced today, they would never get fsa approval.

if peanuts were only just discovered, and it turned our that mere contact could kill 1.4% of kids, it would never get approval.

i'm not advocating a ban in any sense, but let's just keep things in perspective. the only reason are reluctant to restrict access to peanuts is because most of us (including myself) grew up on peanuts.

[Happyhippychick]

42. 1.4% won't be killed by a peanut allergy

Maybe 1.4% have an allergy but very few would die from an interaction with peanuts.

[unblock]

57. yes -- i did say "could" -- in any event, this misses the point.

from an fda perspective, peanuts benefit from having been widely accepted for so long, and also from the increased awareness and protections generally provided or even required by schools and caregivers.

if we imagined peanuts didn't exist but were suddenly introduced, or some other food with similar incidence of life-threatening allergies, the fda wouldn't approve it. or at least if they did, there would be regulations requiring warning labels, banning unsealed product, etc.

most of our reluctance to accept how peanuts really should be treated as based on our inertia from growing up thinking of it as part of a great kid's meal and a great snack. safety seemed to be a non-issue back then as peanut allergies were more rare (and possibly less lethal), but things have changed.

[Happyhippychick]

63. I don't miss the point. 1.4% lethality is not accurate. If it was then I would agree with you.

All food allergies have increased, wheat and dairy notably. There is a systemic issue at play that should be investigated more widely - why is our wheat supply such that someone who is "gluten intolerant" in the U.S. can eat bread in Italy?

It's not the peanuts, it may be the way they are grown, the soil or the air. We just don't know.

[cleanhippie]

131. Peanut allergies developed because of the use of peanuts.

If they were just discovered today, very few, if any, would have an allergy to them at all.

[unblock]

132. i'm not sure they know exactly why these allergies came about or why they're more common these days

but in any event, there are certainly examples of new foods to which people have allergic reactions without any family history.

for instance, i had a very unpleasant reaction to quorn, which is as close to a "brand new" kind of food as you'll find. my understanding is that a many as 5% of people are allergic to quorn.

[cleanhippie]

134. I understand, but quorn is a synthesized and lab-grown meat substitute.

and hardly the same as peanuts.


Until recent times, as early as the 80's, and decreasing exponentially the further back one looks, peanut allergies were extremely rare and hardly noticed. It's been only in the last 10-15 years that cases of peanut allergies have risen dramatically, almost doubling in the last 10 years.

Were peanuts introduced today as a new food, hardly anyone, if at all, would find themselves allergic.

[lagomorph777]

41. I am allergic to most perfumes

And I am unashamedly aggressive about demanding that people around me don't wear substances that emit toxic vapor. I have had some serious discussions with co-workers and I don't feel the least bit guilty about it. A few minutes of nasty perfume can leave me sick in bed all weekend.

[DeadLetterOffice]

83. THIS!!!

Not all allergies are to foods.

I am a huge fan of "perfume free spaces" because exposure for just a few minutes can send me into asthma attacks and blinding migraines.

[MH1]

120. Thanks for bringing this up. I don't have a severe allergy to perfume, but

it makes me very uncomfortable when someone is wearing a lot of it. Or when someone insists on spraying the office bathroom to "make it smell better". NO. It DOESN'T "make it smell better". It makes some of us have to walk down the long hallway to another bathroom.

[Mnpaul]

139. I made the boss take action

One lady was stinking up the whole place with that crap. I couldn't stop sneezing. It overwelmed you before you even made it in the door.

[JustAnotherGen]

43. I have a severe allergy to cats

Severe. Like - hives and I can't breathe.

I would 'like' to have the option to get off the plane and get on another. Flying out of Germany a few years ago and had to go to emergency . . . at least customs cleared me quickly and Lufthansa got my luggage and my husband's off the plane first.

In that case - let passengers know when a cat/cats will be flying and give us options. I know people are attached to their animals at a deep level - but if I had known prior to going over the Atlantic - it would have been nice.


Flights shouldn't allow pets in the cabin - OR - All airlines that should accept pets should use the exact same system they use to text/call us when there are delays and we are at the airport - to notify us there will be animals on the flight.

If I had been on a 12 hour flight I might not have survived or would have needed medical intervention on flight. I get people love their animals and that animal to them takes precedence over me - but it's dangerous and life threatening.

Out or respect for their passengers with animal allergies - let us know and give us options same as you do for people with food allergies.

[Bettie]

58. Do you have problems with people who have cats

sitting near you? Or is it just the actual cats?

I don't think I can even get all the cat and dog hair off my clothing/bag, etc.

[JustAnotherGen]

60. It goes through the air system on a plane

Poor little kitty was 5 rows behind me. Even if I come up against someone who has cat hair on them in an elevator the sneezing and itchy eyes start. But on a plane - no bueno.

[Bettie]

61. Yeah, closed system and all that

I have trouble breathing when I'm near someone with really strong perfume (I won't call it an allergy, just watery eyes and hard to breathe) and planes seem to magnify the effect, it's like all the perfume is right next to me.

Thanks for answering!

[JustAnotherGen]

65. Ugh Calvin Klein perfumes

My throat itches and nose starts running. I get ya! That's awful and even common in a work environment. That's the worst!

[Retrograde]

71. The recirculating air makes it worse IMO

Every time I fly I end up with sneezing fits by the end of the flight; I used to get the same reaction inside climate controlled buildings. I think it's tiny amounts of particulate matter (and possibly mold) that get into the air system and become more concentrated as the flight goes on.

[womanofthehills]

98. Interesting fact about cat allergies

Many people are not allergic to their own cats, but have problems with other peoples cats. I'm like that - not severe - it's just other peoples cats make me itchy.

[KamaAina]

146. So there might be hope for some people who don't have cats because they're allergic!

[RobinA]

62. I Am Not Allergic

to animals, but I agree with you that animals should not be allowed in airplane cabins. Animal allergies are very common and I believe in people before animals. I also don't want a hotel room that has had a Labrador Retriever reclining on the bed. That said, if I were allergic to animals I think for my own sake I'd visit an allergist to become desensitized if possible. Increasingly, it is becoming OK to take animals everywhere, so the allergic and the non-animal lovers are just going to have to get used to it. If it gets too bad, I might start smoking again. Fight contaminant with contaminant.

[JustAnotherGen]

64. I don't take a single prescription and I have an Auto Immune Disease

Ankylosing Spondylitis. I manage a severe disease (genetic) through diet, yoga, jet bath tub, and hot stone massage. I DID break down and get plugs in my eyes and now put restaysis drops in my eyes - because the 'heat' was affecting my eye sight.

We have a painted back turtle and he doesn't bother me. I also don't encounter animals other than on the street. We actually have a couple of stray cats that hang around our yard and I'm perfectly okay with them. Those two are a couple of little rascals.

I just refuse to take shots when I work in a building where we are never going to have animals and I don't have one in my home - and only ONE friend has cats - and she crosses the street to my house.

I DO think planes should allow animals - or animal friendly flights so those who have allergies can make decisions. Let us know so we don't book that flight.

See - I love dogs and don't have an allergy to them. I don't want fifi the maltipoo kept off the flight either.

[trotsky]

68. "Flights shouldn't allow pets in the cabin"

What about service animals?

[JustAnotherGen]

72. You read that ONE sentence - right? ;-)

I'm not here to argue with you. I also stated - I should be given a fair warning from the airline just like they does when I'm sitting in the airport and they are giving me blow by blows for two hours why my flight is late.

The airlines could be considerate - give us a heads up - and let us make a choice.

Does that make you feel better for the service cat that might kill me? I don't see why you would be against letting me know that I can either take a later flight at their expense (no change ticket fee) if I get a text alert that a cat is being brought on in carry on luggage?

Or a dog.

I've never seen a service animal cat (must be a new thing) - but hey - if that human needs it they need it.

Give me an alert - I NEED it. When I took Embrel they could arrange for my shots to be refrigerated - they could arrange this. I'm a human being too.

[trotsky]

76. But they might not always be able to give you an alert.

What if it is someone who was bumped from another flight? If you get the alert as you are boarding the plane, what will you do?

And no, it doesn't have to be a service cat. Some people are allergic to dogs.

[JustAnotherGen]

84. Sure they could

First - I fly a lot. I'm very well traveled.

Second - It is a rare flight that is one time. I know this because of all the text alerts I get.

Third - it would be a simple check in the system - wouldn't be difficult to program. Animal on board (for any reason) and type. Three lines down from me at the check in counter someone is on the same flight to Rome with a cat while I'm finishing up. It's not that difficult.

They could also advise that people traveling with animals MUST advise the airline 24 hours in advance - and simply state when I check in - There will be an xyz animal on this flight - is that an issue.

If they advise me at check in (putting pressure on animal owners the same way I had on me when I HAD to travel with embrel - must be kept cold -injectable) then I can make a decision.

One thing my husband has done (his airline miles accounts are SICK) is make a list of 'safe airlines'. Example - when we go to Thailand next winter - we are taking Emirates airline. Even though it's a bit pricier than #IhateUnited and #AmericanScareLines (again I fly a great deal and those are my god's honest opinions about those horror chambers in the sky) - they don't allow animals in the cabin.

There are a lot of other airlines people can choose that WILL allow animals (service or otherwise) in the cabin from JFK to Thailand. They can have those airlines - I'm forced to do business with a company whose ethics and morality I dislike in order to ensure I'm alive when I get off the plane. And from my bee allergy - I know those epi pens are only good for a little bit. I've still ended up in the hospital post epi pen for the last two bee stings I took. I think the allergies have gotten worse since my first flare with Ankylosing Spondylitis (2009) as my immune system is under constant attack. Add in an allergic reaction with my smaller rib cage (going straight and rib case is closing around my lungs as a result) and it's a case of I can't breathe.

RE:
Boarding the plane - note from my doctor. I won't get on the flight. They are going to have to figure something out. Especially B.A. or Air France, or Lufthansa. I've been flying on them for many years and I'm going to be kind of arrogant here . . . as much money as I've given them I expect them to figure it out. Flying isn't cheap. It's the price you pay to get out of this awful country for a few weeks. They take my money - they figure it out. If that person was bumped - let them fly. I'll catch the next one. Not THAT many people fly with animals and as Emirate Air expands service - I'll always have that as an option.

[trotsky]

88. Do you have an approximation of the costs involved in your "simple" system?

From what I understand, what you propose will require industry-wide changes to booking systems. You're looking at many coding hours, testing, training, etc. How many people are there like you? Do the airlines generate enough revenue from your tickets to pay for these changes? Then there's the liability angle. By putting your system in place, are you going to make the airlines liable if they fail to alert you properly?

"Flying isn't cheap. It's the price you pay to get out of this awful country for a few weeks."

If this country is so awful, why do you live here?

[JustAnotherGen]

91. Well I'm an American

I'm an American. A black American. When you get right down to it - you'll find most of us as of late refer to this country not only as a piece of shit country - but a racist piece of shit country. And it is. And I will die on that hill. We are a racist piece of shit used car salesman country.


I work for a major telecom (wireless side) in HQ - and I have had enough experience to know - IT can get it done. I.T. can make magic happen - and they (the airlines) already have the framework (their food allergies, special accomodations section when you book your flight) as well as the alert system (text and emails and American also calls). If you were talking ground up - that's a big issue. When you are talking 'add on' - it's really not.


You seem so upset that a perosn might have a health reason why a SIMPLE alert to let them know they could die is a big issue.
Can I ask you a question -

Do you work for an airline?

You seem very defensive of the industry. And or people with OTHER health issues. But - it's kind of discriminatory to accomodate one set - and not another. I mean women get moved on flights to accomodate men's religious beliefs (for something that will happen to the man in the after life) - all the time. I'm not asking them to cause that kind of humiliation to another passenger - I'm asking them to give me FAIR warning and let me make my own choice.

In my business - HAC Ratings (T3, T4) get placed on boxes/literature by the OEM's/ODM's so hearing impaired people can make good decisions - why is this different?

[trotsky]

100. Wow, right to the personal attacks.

For the record, no, I don't work for an airline nor do I have any financial ties to the airline industry whatsoever. But I do understand I.T., and application design, and know that the change you propose goes beyond existing alerts/notifications. It would involve new fields, new processes, new boarding questions, new procedures.

(And I also disagree with forcing women to move to accommodate misogynistic religious assholes, FWIW.)

But if your health/allergy condition is as life-threatening as you say it is, all I can tell you is that if I were in your position, I would avoid all travel. Because even if your system was implemented, errors can be made. Your life could still be at risk. What if another passenger has something made from cat fur? How do you screen for that?
http://www.amazon.com/Crafting-Cat-Hair-Cute-Handicrafts/dp/1594745250

I guess I just don't understand how much expense everyone else needs to absorb in order to accommodate your demands when you jet around the world for weeks at a time. That is a luxury very few people enjoy.

[Skittles]

133. or emergencies!

https://www.thedodo.com/airlines-let-pets-fly-wildfires-1787082042.html

[Galileo126]

45. I have the peanut allergy...

And all I need is "disclosure".

Years ago, me and my buddy wanted to try a restaurant's "award winning chili" in Providence (RI). We waited so as to save enough money to make the drive (we were kids back then). Anyway - 3 days before we were supposed to go have our culinary fun, we read in the newspaper that a girl died after eating that chili.

The "secret ingredient" was peanut butter.

My buddy looked at me and said "that could have been you!!"

All I need is disclosure.

Nothing else.

[Bettie]

46. That's fair

and reasonable to ask of anyone.

[JustAnotherGen]

66. That is very fair

[ananda]

53. I think it would be OK for planes to be peanut free ..

.. since cabins are so enclosed and the allergic person could breathe peanut dust I guess.

I have a violent allergy to onions, but not deadly. It just irritates my intestinal tract and
I get big pain and gas for two days. But I would not recommend that planes worry about
onions. They're pretty easy to avoid.

[wickerwoman]

110. It's not exactly a hardship.

Just serve pretzels instead. My local airline offers a choice - cookies, pretzels or gluten free veggie chips.

Airlines just like peanuts because they're cheap. Nobody is suffering from not having peanuts as an option and it avoids the risk of death.

As to whose responsibility it is - the answer is everybody's since we live in a civilised society where generally we don't think it's cool to put people's lives at risk for the sake of convenience. It's the allergy-sufferer's responsibility to make people aware of the allergy and it's the communities responsibility to take reasonable steps to accommodate them.

As for the "inconvenience/extra cost" argument, would you say the same thing to someone in a wheelchair or with diabetes or in congestive heart failure and not able to walk very far? Life-threatening allergies are a disability and people who have them have rights to go out and participate in public if they choose to do so.

How far should we go to accommodate people with allergies? See the Americans with Disabilities Act. Companies and schools are legally required to accommodate people with disabilities.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

124. Airlines could stop serving peanuts

But unless they're going to go through everyone's purses and carry-ons, they can't stop people from bringing them onboard.

And the ADA doesn't require anyplace to ban peanuts or any other allergen. Accommodations have to be reasonable and not disruptive to operations.

Not giving out peanuts would be reasonable.

Inspecting every single passenger for peanuts would be disruptive to operations.

[B2G]

55. Isn't that why epi-pens exist?

So sufferers of extreme allergies can actually go out in the world?

[polly7]

90. The trouble with EpiPens though is that

effects wear off between 10 and 20 minutes and more may be required. You should always seek emergency medical attention after any use of epinephrine.

[womanofthehills]

123. Using an epi-pen is like having 100 cups of coffee

with your heart beating wildly -

[peace13]

59. I'm allergic to some perfumes and air fresheners.

It would be nice if people would refrain from pouring on the scent when they are going to be in close quarters but I could never ask that. I am prepared to deal with the fallout which could leave me with side effects for a day or two. Animals on an airplane are the same way for me. Pretty much, some people have more rights than others or Simply aren't considerate. If my child had a peanut allergy I would probably have him wear a mask. It's never too soon to learn that you aren't the center of the universe. No sarcasm, just reality from a lifetime of dealing with allergies.

[Mariana]

116. The mask would be an excellent idea

if someone's life is truly endangered by tiny particles of something floating in the air. There are particulate masks readily available that will filter out extremely small pieces of dust of any kind. I'm not talking about those horrible, itchy, ill-fitting paper cup like things, but a proper mask. I use one whenever I'm working with very dusty material, and it's quite comfortable. I have another one for solvents, same design, different filter. Getting one to fit a child may be a problem. And you do have to take it off to eat or drink, so it could only be used for relatively short periods of time.

[peace13]

130. They have some awesome masks out.

Three hour legs would probably be the max.

[Yo_Mama]

149. I do too. There are some stores I can't tolerate because of it.

The reality is that those of us with weird sensitivities/allergies have to learn to deal with it.

The disclosure laws for allergens such as milk/soy/eggs/nuts/wheat on food packaging are good.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

67. I'm allergic to yellow-jacket stings. I stay away from yellow-jackets.

"There is no safety in the cosmos." Alan Watts

[pediatricmedic]

73. Primary responsibility falls on the person with the allergy

They are responsible for their own health and should be aware of any dangerous situations. They also have a duty to inform others of their condition when necessary to prevent exposure.

Secondary responsibility is to everyone else who doesn't have the allergy but are around someone who does. This is more of a social responsibility to prevent harm to someone who has an allergy. This is where you take reasonable measures like offering alternative menus or an area free of a certain allergen. Reasonable measures are subjective and open to individual or group interpretation.

[Bettie]

80. Thanks for the response

I agree with this completely.

Reasonable measures are probably different from person to person on both sides of the equation.

[GumboYaYa]

121. That is correct...the frustration I have is

when I am at a decent restaurant, I tell the server that I am lactose intolerant and they still serve me something that has hidden lactose. I can deal with visible dairy like cheese because I can see it before I eat it. But dairy can sneak in sometimes and be totally undetectable until it is in my stomach. It is absolutely horrible to order a nice meal that makes you get sick as soon as you take the first bite.

I have given up on trying to eat at lower end restaurants unless I am absolutely sure the food is dairy free. It is hard to expect them to accommodate my issues, but at higher end restaurants where they are put on notice I expect to get what I order and not have the meal make me sick.

[SheilaT]

87. The question that is always in my mind is

how in the world does the allergic person deal with going out in the real world, where they have no control over what others put on (perfume), eat (shellfish, peanuts), or are in contact with (cats, dogs, horses).

Several here have answered my question.

But the reality is, I like to wear perfume, and I often do. Several years back I worked in an office where a co-worker requested perfume not be worn. I'll admit I found that intensely annoying, as I really like to wear perfume, but I complied.

I eat peanuts, peanut butter, and shellfish on occasion. I myself am somewhat cat allergic, although it's only a problem if I'm around three or more cats in a somewhat small space.

I do have any number of the usual seasonal allergies, which I deal with by taking OTC meds.

In the end, it's okay to request certain accommodations from others, but in the end the allergy sufferer has to bear the main burden of responsibility.

Animals in the cabin of an airplane can be a problem, as one poster has already described, but as another pointed out, even with advance notification of your own dog or cat allergy to the airline, one of them can be put on at the last minute because of a delayed or cancelled flight or even just a last-minute booking.

And if you are that violently allergic, shouldn't you always have an epi-pen with you?

I have a friend who developed a severe shell-fish allergy when in her late 40s, and eventually realized that she could no longer eat in Chinese restaurants, because they cooked shrimp using the same utensils or pans as everything else. I think she was close to avoiding all restaurants that served shrimp in any form, but last I knew (I moved, we've lost touch) she had learned exactly how to question the servers. She also always had an epi-pen with her.

[Bettie]

89. Re: Animals on planes

Last time DH and I flew (last year) there were seven people with service animals with them, all tiny dogs, between our two flight legs.

So, if you are allergic to dogs, flying might not be a great option.

[SheilaT]

95. Luckily I'm not allergic to dogs,

although I like them less and less each day. I get quite tired of the many barking dogs in my neighborhood. But that's a personal problem completely unrelated to allergies.

As cat allergic as I am, I'd have to be in a plane very full of cats to be seriously bothered. I'm not aware of any other animal allergies.

[womanofthehills]

102. In my zumba class , one women's perfume was makeing 3 of us sick

We requested she not wear, it but she still did - so we all worked out far from her and insisted the door to the building be left open.

If I were to sit next to a women with perfume on in an airplane, I would have trouble breathing.

[laundry_queen]

136. Do you have the same issues with natural perfumes?

I've found a few new perfumes lately that are made mostly with essential oils. They come in creme form. One I have smells a bit like chai tea...another one more like roses. Do those have the same effect? Or is just the mass produced crap that causes you trouble?

[womanofthehills]

138. I'm ok with some essential oils

but not the flower ones -

[laundry_queen]

141. ah.

I guess that makes sense.

[LisaM]

106. I like wearing scent, too, though I do it less frequently.

I abide by my grandmother's rules - cologne only during the day, just a light mist, you spray and step into it, generally. Perfume is for evening only, and you just put it on your touch points - earlobes, elbows, wrists. People shouldn't smell it if they are more than about a foot away.

These were sensible rules from a woman with a real sense of style and the few times I wear scent to work, no one notices.

[TrappedInUtah]

94. This is getting silly

We shouldn't restrict a wholesome and safe food for 99% of people just because of 1% with allergies. I do believe in disclosure and attempting to avoid cross contamination. Beyond that, it's up to those with the allergies to avoid their problem foods.

I grew up eating Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches daily. Heck, I still like them today if I'm looking for a quick lunch. Peanuts are a completely safe and acceptable food for the VAST majority of the population.

[LiberalArkie]

96. I am allergic to just about everything my respiratory doc says. But that said

maybe a big ziplock bag with air fittings. I would have liked that when I had to sit next to a woman with a bottle of stink on and a teen boy with a bottle of his crap on. I could not change seats. lucky it was a very short flight.

[womanofthehills]

107. I used to have severe allergies - diagnosed with multiple chemical sensitivity

I moved way way out in the country - 4 miles down a dirt road - I'm now 90% better. Clean air helped big time.

[LiberalArkie]

109. I live way out in the country and thought I was over all the asthma and allergies, but I

found out that as a person gets older they all come back with a vengeance.. My doc says I am allergic to my cats and dog, all the grasses in Arkansas, the trees like the oaks, pines, elms etc. Most of the weeds and most of the flower pollen. I know not to go into a convenience store on date nights as the kids only know one amount of fragrance to put on. I an luckily not allergic to nuts. My allergies won't kill me, just make me wish I was dead.

[nilram]

108. Or, "How far do we need to go to protect people?"

Or, "Do we need to protect people?"

How much is a human life worth?

[TrappedInUtah]

111. Impossible question

The ethical answer is that one human life has unlimited worth. The practical answer is considerably less. We cannot simply greatly inconvenience the vast majority of society to accommodate the needs of a very small minority. Society would break down if we drained our resources trying to accommodate every special case.

[nilram]

113. Yet we haven't drained our resources by providing curb-cuts for

the mobility impaired, or Braille directions on ATMs, or audible indicators on crosswalk signals, or wheelchair seating in public auditoriums. Is it going to break society to accommodate the occasional person with a peanut allergy, or should such people give up outside activities and sit in their rooms breathing filtered air.

[TrappedInUtah]

119. It wouldn't break society, but

It would significantly inconvenience people to ban the public consumption of peanuts and peanut products. If somebody is so deathly allergic to peanuts that merely being around someone eating them causes issues I don't know what to say. Life isn't fair sometimes. Peanuts, peanut butter and peanut oils are all extremely common in our society and it just isn't practical to try and restrict public consumption of said products.

[Capt. Obvious]

112. Natural selection at work

[alarimer]

117. You cannot protect 100% of people 100% of the time.

So the question becomes, how do we as a society manage the risk? It is impossible (nor is it desirable) to make things 100% safe for everyone all the time. It cannot be done. It's about managing risk for yourself. No one else can or should do it for you.

The airline will also have to manage their own risk in this as well, because they may fear a lawsuit if they do not do enough. They may face one anyway, given how litigious people have become. They may just decide not to offer peanuts anymore. But they cannot do much about what individual passengers do.

It seems to me that if this particular allergy is becoming so prevalent and so sever then scientists need to figure out a way to cure it. It seems easier to rid an individual of their allergies than to rid the world of peanuts and peanut products.

[wickerwoman]

137. "It's about managing risk for yourself. No one else can or should do it for you."

Sixty years ago people said this to people in wheelchairs to avoid having to build ramps.

We can all take reasonable steps to reduce risk to other people. We have a moral and legal responsibility to organise our society so that people can participate in it, even when they suffer from a disability.

You have an 80% chance of becoming disabled at some point in your life yourself. Do you want to live in a society where you're told it's your responsibility to get yourself up stairs with crutches because you can't protect 100% of people 100% of the time so we're not even going to try to accommodate you? Do you want to tell diabetics, well, let's just cure diabetes instead of labelling things with sugar in them and while we all wait for that cure you can take your chances?

Basically it comes down to an argument of:

Person A: Those peanuts could kill my child.
Person B: But I really like peanuts.

Sorry, but Person A's argument trumps Person B's. They needs to suck it up and live with the terrible agony of being served something other than stale peanuts on an airplane.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

122. I have a lot of allergies but they are not the fashionable ones.

The big one is deadly nightshade. That's tomatoes, eggplant, red peppers, bell peppers of any color, any pepper that is technically a fruit--IOW it started out as a flower that got fertilized and has seeds in it.

Also, shellfish. Also, animal hair--dogs, cats, wool, and a lot of plants and pollens. I have a short haired cat that comes inside at night to sleep. I wash my hands after I pet him. My sister had Siamese cats years ago and they would curl up in my lap and I would immediately get a runny nose and start crying and my eyes would itch. Cats vary.

I have had a friend get mad at me because I stayed at her house, took decongestants and such, and was still miserable because her house is filthy and there is no way she can clean it up. She is sick all the time herself. I am not surprised. Later her neighbor called the Department of Human Services about her roach infestation so the State was supposed to give her a free extermination. I never heard any results about that.

I can't stay at peoples' houses that are dirty, have dirty dishes piled up in the sink, animals running around and such. Why can't I find some friends where I can couch surf that aren't slobs?

I am nowhere near a compulsive housekeeper, but the dishes, clothes, towels, and food are all clean.

When I am in a restaurant I always ask them about tomatoes and bell peppers and shellfish.

Perfumes vary. There are a few I will wear (Flowerbomb, Shalimar, L'Air du Temps, Flower by Kenzo, Opium). Others, as soon as I sniff the tester bottle in the store, I will get a headache. The modern ones with lots of synthetic ingredients seem to be worse at setting me off. Also, most brands made by Estee Lauder will be something that gives me a headache or I just don't like. I agree that some women wear way too much and it's heavy.

[susanna]

143. The nightshade family includes potatoes. n/t

[EllieBC]

142. Wow. This is like a liberatarian dream thread.

I'll let my daughter's teacher know she shouldn't have a peanut free classroom. Kindy and Grade 1 kids can learn to manage on their own or just die and get out of the way of someone's right to PB&J.