Night after night I get angry at having to hear the Big Fucking Lie

[Stinky The Clown]

The Big Fucking Lie is couched in many guises and stories, but its all the same at its core.

Tonight the news did a story (that was, of course, already reported and discussed on DU) about the pension "crisis" in San Diego and San Jose. A 20% and 27%, respectively, portion of those cities' budgets.

So what's the Big Fucking Lie?

The Big Fucking Lie is that there's no money.

There is no money because of the well choreographed demonization of taxes. It is absolutely unbelievable that people who get less than they ought to so the .01%ers who run their lives and dictate the terms of their substandard working pay and benefits, have convinced them that taxes on the .01% somehow is bad for them. This causes them to vote to "cut taxes".

Scott Walker says he's still in office because people want leaders to make hard decisions.

It seems to me a no brainer to tax the .01% until their eyes bleed and then tax high wage earners commensurate amounts to support their burden on society. That's a hard decision no one seems willing to tackle. Include the folks who our side votes for.

But no one on the news tells this basic truth.

It isn't about high costs. It is about insufficient revenue.

I want tax reform as much as the next guy. I just don't want the *same* tax reform the "other" guys want.

The dumbest fuckers in all of this are those morons who work for substandard wages and then support the best interests not of themselves but of the very people holding them down.

I'll never forget the moron who bragged on a right wing web site that he hated the liberals and was happy working three jobs to maintain his family. Why isn't that fucking moron calling for the end of the preferential treatment of the .01%? Sometimes the stupid actually burns.

[abelenkpe]

1. My relatives in VA

fall into the "moron" category happily cheering on and voting for the very people and policies that make their life hell. You'd think all the talk of taxing the poor would give them pause but somehow they don't recognize that's them.

[truedelphi]

70. I remember a friend of mine, a very disabled guy, who

Ranted and raved against the "librul" policies that were "putting this nation in its grave."

Then his health situation got just a little bit worse. He could no longer go in and work. And he had to go and apply for Disability after a life of working.

Did he appreciate that he was now being kept alive by a program hat FDR and those of his ilk put into place?

Nope he still voted for Georgie Pordgie over Kerry!

Hard to figure those people out!

[freshwest]

2. But it works so well, and people buy it.

[upaloopa]

3. Be careful, some DU jury is going come along and kick your ass because you make sense.

More likely they'll kick my ass again though.

You are one of the few that gets it and that is anti social don't you know.

We have fucking revenue problem! That is too damn simple to understand.

Welcome to the race to the bottom.

[Ship of Fools]

5. Actually, I think everyone here gets it...

[upaloopa]

7. I've read a lot of anti union posts here today and not one post concerning unions has mentioned

that the problem is revenue and not needing to cut costs except this OP.

[TBF]

26. Re union comments today -

although some of the younger dems don't support unions, most of us middle-aged and older folks do. Our dads worked manufacturing jobs and belonged to unions - I painted strike signs in the early 70s with my parents and so did most of my friends. I can tell you from reading the Internet today that there is a lot of trolling going on right now - the main themes today seem to be "not all elections are fraudulent" and "not all dems support unions". Think about who these concepts benefit and you'll have your answer as to who is paying for that type of propaganda to be posted all over the web.

[Dustlawyer]

53. I am very pro-union but I will say that they need to educate their members.

Many of these people are the very ones electing Repugs. They are not voting for Dem's!

[JackHughes]

61. When the Dems went weak

The Democratic Party lost their spines when the suits at DLC took over.

Back when labor organizers ran things it was different. Those guys were used to having their heads busted by management thugs and their police goon squads. They understood how "union" was a dirty word in the corporate press.

Unlike the DLC guys with their expensive suits and manicured fingernails, the labor organizers understood the true "dynamic."

Real progressives don't compromise with right-wingers.

We fight them.

[TBF]

63. Yup, agree 100% nt

[libtodeath]

4. Make no mistake after yesterday

the repukes are blood thirsty bastards that will do anything to win and even though it sounds bad at least half the population are ignorant fuckers that would vote food out of thier own mouth as long as someone else starved before them.

[Cosmocat]

41. I am reaching that point

where I can no longer romanticize the electoral process in this country.

Walker winning, despite being an absolute tyrant and everyone knows he is minutes away from being charged criminally, just is stunning. Even with 40 million being thrown in to it, there simply is no excuse for a state to keep this guy in office.

After the 2010 elections, this pretty much cements the stark reality for me that collectively, yeah, more often than not, 50.1% of the voters in this country are hopeless causes.

[Shadowflash]

51. I wish I could rec an individual post

'at least half the population are ignorant fuckers that would vote food out of their own mouth as long as someone else starved before them.'

This is the absolute truth and this is why Walker won yesterday.

[harun]

62. That quote sums it up.

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. And the reason behind voting against their best interest in support of those who

hold them down, is in part, pure greed and selfishness.


They might be part of the .01% one day, or so they dream and they sure as hell don't want to have to pay more in taxes.


greedy little shits!

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. Yeah ...

Just as soon as they: 1) win the lottery, or 2) save up enough of their minimum wage to purchase their boss' business, or 3) invent the next MicroSoft/Apple/Facebook/Pets.com, or 4) are just discovered for the geniuses that the are!

[1StrongBlackMan]

8. I suppose walker is correct ...

Scott Walker says he's still in office because people want leaders to make hard decisions.

The people seem to really want leaders that will make decisions that are hard on them. "Thank you sir. May I have another?"

[HiPointDem]

10. god, i know. last night i had to turn off the tv rather than listen to 3 elegantly coiffed

transcribers to power go on about how workers don't want to pay for those pampered public workers' pensions. how they can't afford it, how they've had to tighten their belts and so should the public workers.

the belts of the transcribers to power looked pretty damn loose to me, and their coiffures pretty expensive.

[AlbertCat]

11. There was plenty of money for Walker.

So obviously we are not broke.

[zorahopkins]

12. Do The Karadashians Really Need More Stuff?

Clearly, the Kardashians are part of the 0.001%.

Do they really need any more stuff?

Why can't we tax people like them at a rate of 99%??

[Octafish]

13. Bring back the 90-percent top bracket.

Sorry, meant to write "91-percent top bracket."

You are absolutely spot on, Stinky the Clown. The press corpse wants everyone to believe that the poor billionaires can't live without every stinking, er, red cent they've stolen. It's way past time to return to logic, reason and sanity (to quote the great DUer Opihimoimoi).

[suffragette]

55. Also, end the loophole tax breaks for their corporations

Even as AIG CEO called for people to work into their 70's and 80's, he and his "top talent" benefited not only from huge pay and bonuses provided at least in part from the bailout and the personal low-tax rate, but also from a tax loophole for the corporation itself.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=136427

http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/12/news/economy/aig-tax-breaks/index.htm

Makes me wonder if what they've "paid back" so far is paid out of the tax savings from the loophole?

[Octafish]

64. AIG is a racket. A protected racket.

For certain, BFEE: As the costs and risks are socialized and all the benefits and profits are privatized.

Bailout of AIG, the CIA, and Covert Operations

PS: Thank you for the heads-up on the tax breaks, suffragette. The reason these turds like to brag about all they give back is they so seldom are ever caught.

[suffragette]

74. Very interesting read

Thanks for the link.

[LongTomH]

56. We also need to tax capital gains the same way we tax income.

Make it progressive. The cube-rat shouldn't be paying the same rate for his 401K when he finally withdraws it as Bill Gates on his billions.

[Octafish]

65. Excellent idea, yours, LongTomH!

Unless the government gets back into being a fair referee via tax and fiscal policies, the continuing accumulation of capital in the hands of the BFEE will beat out all the votes in Democracyland.

BTW: National Nurses United also have an excellent idea, as well: [bThe Financial Transaction Tax].

If they complain about double taxation, there's always the French approach. Shhhhhhhh-chunk.

[pitohui]

14. stinky, you can't fix stupid

you do understand what stupid means, right? of course stupid people do and believe stupid things, they are STUPID

i give up on the stupid, if they were hurting only themselves i wouldn't have a problem with it but they are destroying the world and not even getting any benefit

at least the billionaires (many of who are ALSO stupid) get some benefit

the loser stupids who have nothing and who will never have nothing...them i don't get...they would truly rather destroy their own family than to see a black man (or a woman of any color) get a decent paycheck...if "everyone" will have a better life because of some law or movement the stupid people don't want...they only want carlos slim to have a better life, fuck the rest of us

[JackHughes]

66. Joe the Plumber syndrome

There's too many poor bastards in this country who consider themselves temporarily "financially embarrassed" millionaires who would hate to pay high taxes when they get rich.

It's the Joe-the-Plumber syndrome.

[KoKo]

15. There WAS MONEY to bail out the BANKSTERS who put us into this Mess...but NOTHING

but a Few Dollars spread here and there for the American People who were VICTIMS of this SCAM against us...

But, it sounds good for election. Re-Elect Obama and he will "bring the hammer down" on those who Corrupted America!

It sounds very good ......if he would even SAY it...but, MORE GOOD if he Would Even DO IT!

The CAREFUL WITH MONEY OLDER FOLKS...now not making any interest on their hard earned money...and won't in the foreseeable future.. But, the Banksters Salaries have increased MILLIONS since the Financial Crisis of 2007.

BLEEDING GOES ON...with Student Loans in Default and a major Western World Crisis where the Banks want MORE AND MORE MONEY to BAIL THEM OUT...while 'THE PEOPLE" must PAY because of the whole FINANCIAL SYSTEM MANIPULATION for YEARS that CAUSED THIS MESS!

Who is in Jail for this? Bernie Madoff?

[quaker bill]

31. You do know that there actually was no money

The money to bail out the bankers did not exist before the bailout. They substituted bogus paper people had stopped believing in for digital dollars that people do believe in. Since the exchange was done at face value, it was more of a con game than a bailout.

Now there is real damage. In theory, they could have done the same with upside down mortgages, made up the difference in digital dollars. But the "moral hazard" argument prevented that. Apparently the proles cannot be trusted with dollars that suddenly appear from nowhere, but the 0.1% can.

[duhneece]

16. I want the marginal tax rates under Eisenhower

I'd accept the highest marginal tax rates under Nixon.

It's about fairness. Those who used the 'public' resources like public schools for educated employees & customers, roads, bridges, clean water, public utilities, legal system, public air waves should pay them forward. That way honors the generations before us who made the sacrifices in the form of taxes before us to provide those public resources.

[Cosmocat]

43. beyond that, it is about a properly balanced economy

the simple math has shown that at these upper income rates and lack of regulation, wealth REDISTRIBUTES at the top and STAYS there.

The economy did well in the 90s, and that is with an upper rate of about 39%.

Let it get back to that level at least and get the proper regulation in place and let's see how things look after a half decade or so.

But, in the bizarre world that is American policy/political discussion, the neo-liberal economic model that was instituted when Bush II got power, cutting the top rate to historical modern lows and the dividend rate to historical modern lows with little regulation that left the current economic abyss, we need to DOUBLE DOWN on all of that because ...

Well, because republicans scream it at the top of their lungs and the "liberal press" acknowledges it as fact.

[Flatulo]

17. What's a pension?

[lastlib]

18. The other part of the equation is CEOs...

...getting 350-500 times the average worker's pay--plus benefits, golden parachutes, stock options, expense accounts, country club memberships, ad infinitum, ad nauseum....

We need to be SHOUTING about this from every hilltop!! It's OBSCENE and INSANE!!! It has GOT TO CHANGE!!!

[Flatulo]

19. Wall St CEO pay is up 20% this year

Cause, you know, they're doing such a great job.

[duhneece]

52. Yup, that's another very main point

The combo of higher taxes for the filthy rich and a more equitable distribution of profits among the workers who actually provide the service or make the product would give us back a strong middle class with great education, good roads and all.

[mehrrh]

20. best interests

I totally agree.
Those who are so ignorant as to vote for those who would keep them down -- wtf is wrong with them.

[Tennessee Gal]

21. "It isn't about high costs. It is about insufficient revenue."

BINGO! WE HAVE A WINNER!

[newspeak]

77. I remember little boot's obscene tax cuts

hubby's aunt went on and on about how great the tax cut was. This was when the bill passed. I informed her that every state, education and other departments were going to be hurting because of this tax cut; especially, because we were also spending like no tomorrow on war. That the states would have to increase state taxes, property taxes, just to make ends meet. That we were going to get hit in the long run. And, some people are so damned short sighted, they don't realize that it's a trojan horse. What the tax cut did, was not create jobs, but made the wealthy wealthier, while they invested that money overseas, instead of here. It gave the have mores even more power over us, while our wage has declined significantly.

And the media is right there with the have mores. Tearing down anyone and everyone who still has a decent job with benefits. Attempting to turn the plebes against each other. And, while tearing down a laborer with a decent job, they make no mention how CEOs in this country are paid obscenely more than other CEOs around the world.

[Fuddnik]

22. Kick and rec!

[ErikJ]

23. While the top .01% stiff us for more taxes AND the subsidy of their underpaid workers for food stamp

[annabanana]

24. Boy Howdy you got THAT right! . . .n/t

[Hotler]

25. SHUT UP! SOME FUCKING DAY I AM GOING TO BE RICH.

BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO! Well said sir. Do I really need the sarcasm thingy????

[valerief]

27. Teh Stoopid is amazing, isn't it? I don't think you can train a dog to bite off its own tail, but

you sure as hell can train Americans.

[Zanzoobar]

28. "and then tax high wage earners commensurate amounts to support their burden on society."

Is a guy who makes 20 bucks an hour more of a burden on society than a guy who makes 10 bucks and hour? If that's not enough of a span, how about 100/hr vs 20/hr.

Maybe I'm missing your point. I may have misread it.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. You think twenty bucks an hour is a high wage earner?

[Zanzoobar]

33. I wasn't sure what you meant

That's why I threw in the 100 vs 20 range.

Either way, you seem to imply that higher earners are more burdonsome on society. I was just wondering what your range was.

[Overseas]

29. Billions a week for the wars. I would rather my taxes went to Medicare for All.

[RufusTFirefly]

30. Most people are so completely entrapped in an alternate universe that they don't even realize it n/t

[quaker bill]

34. But, But the point is

no one truly "deserves" a pension, either you get rich and live off the accumulated wealth, or you just get old, suffer, and die.

Everyone is supposed to succeed and save, or suffer the consequences of failure. The problem with this theory is that most jobs the "job creators" are creating do not pay enough to cover daily expenses, even if you are quite careful. No one saves the money they need to put food on the table, they spend it and eat.

Back in the day, and really not all that long ago, they had this thing called the "company town". In the company town, the "company" owned everything, the homes, the stores, the job, the utilities, the bank, everything. It was all planned out (salaries and prices) so that at the end of the week, when all the bills were paid, each week you were just a little more in debt to the company. It was a form of quasi legal indentured servitude.

Today, it is more than one company, but the concept holds up. It is exceptionally true in this time if you are just poor enough. If you are just poor enough, you rent to own, paying way too much money for poor quality things, you get payday loans, you get a beater car from a buy here pay here place (paying thousands more than you would with cash because it is the only place that will finance you)....

There is a whole industry built around keeping many of us as poor as possible.

[progress2k12nbynd]

35. We should all be paying higher taxes...

They pay millions and should pay millions more, we pay thousands and should pay thousands more. U can't fix a broken economy by raising taxes on a few thousand of the richest families. And it doesn't sell very well either because it just makes us sound bitter.

Raise taxes on ALL. SUBSTANTIALLY.

[Karmasue]

69. I wish you were right...

The very wealthy don't pay their fair share, and often pay less than we do.

The less you make, the less likely you are to be in a position to take advantage of the tax laws, which were written by tax lawyers - not economists - and tweaked by congressional representatives who respond to lobbyists, who represent big money and don't shy away from corruption.

The really lucrative tax breaks are not geared toward the average middle aged, married, working man or woman. They are not geared toward the young man or woman working to go to college, or teachers, or police officers, or firemen.

They were not written for the older person still working in order to survive, or on Social Security, or small pension. In fact many of those people don't even make enough to file a 1040 that includes a schedule A to get the benefit of even deducting a fraction (7%) of their medical costs. They get nothing but the exemption and single/married deduction.

So the cop with wife and 2 kids who makes $50,000 and rents (because he lost his house) pays tax on about $29K (after married ded and 4 exemptions of $21k). He gets no sched A because he has no mortgage so tax is around $3500. That's about 12% of his taxable income.

Many billionaires today only start with the wife and 2 kids at the same $21K ded/exempts. (It already seems askew doesn't it?) And they end up somewhere in the 1% bracket. One percent.

Now I grant you that one percent of a billion is a lot of money...but it is radically unfair taxation. Unfair not because he is wealthy, but because the cop's penny is a fair percentage of his income. Not so the 1 percenter.

In addition, the vast majority of the middle class either does their own return, or uses turbo tax or H&R Block, because they can't afford to hire the tax lawyers (remember who wrote these laws) of the very wealthy.

These are the lawyers/accountants who know, or find, all the deduction loopholes that the very wealthy use regularly that you and I can't use. And when they have used up all the legal schedule allowances, iffy deductions, and gray-area loopholes, they turn to more blatantly illicit maneuvers like off-shore accounts, hiding assets and outright illegal tax schemes.

I am not saying that because they are wealthy they all do these things. I am saying that they can do these things because they are wealthy enough to hire it done without guilt. They sign the completed tax return when their tax accountants/lawyers (who are getting a healthy fee) send it to them.

They either don't know...or don't want to know (because some are corrupt)...but it happens all the time - and by people you would never dream. Even Romney has his tax havens, and money shelters to avoid paying taxes. Yep...to avoid paying taxes. That is the ONLY reason to shelter money from the eyes of the treasury. That is the sole purpose of a tax haven.

Not because he is bad, but because he can.

[Tsiyu]

73. Welcome to DU

"Because he can."

Yep.

They love their freebies, but they don't seem to want anyone else to have much of anything.

They'll throw money away rather than spend it on the common good.

Because they can.

[ErikJ]

36. State Pensions lost on Wall St casino. Blame the public sector.

Its a disaster so we'll have to cut you off. Sorry about that. No money left.

[Flatulo]

47. In order to produce the returns needed to fund the pension obligations, all

pension funds need to be at least partially invested in equities. Some municipalities gambled big and lost big, others were more conservative and didn't take as bad of a haircut.

Just like the private sector with its 401ks and IRAs, a very large chunk of that money just disappeared.

The difference is that public sector pensions are a contract between the worker and the responsible government entity. That money has to be paid.

Workers in the private sector have no legal remedy and just have to live with the losses. My personal investment strategey was extremely conservative, so I've retained most of my savings. Other were 100% into stocks and lost everything.

It's all just legalized gambling.

[newspeak]

78. under jebbie

didn't florida public pensions invest in enron? I'm tired of public pensions being scammed and skimmed by partisan hacks who shovel the money to their friends and interests.

[Blecht]

37. "Job creators"

http://www.upworthy.com/breaking-you-know-that-ted-talk-you-werent-supposed-to-see-here-it-is-2

[RickFromMN]

46. Thank you for sharing. I think Nick Hanauer made a lot of sense.

A few months ago,
a lower middle class Republican tried to make the argument, the rich create jobs.

It was easy to ask, after ten years of Bush tax cuts, where are the jobs.

I don't think the question phased him.

The Democratic Party must work to disprove the notion the rich create jobs.

I suspect, this view, more than the idea the middle class or poor can become rich,
is what causes many people to vote Republican.

[Flatulo]

75. Oh, Republicans do make jobs.

There just in China.

[DLevine]

38. The right wing media is doing its job well.

People are brainwashed into believing the most asinine things.

[stevebreeze]

39. I think the problem is this isn't the only big lie....

Others are so anti logic it's amazing. We are told we should be jealous of teachers and their "lavish" work situation, but wall street bankers and CEO "earn" their money. Are people that bad at math? Clearly for many the answer is yes.

[lunatica]

40. Well evidently there's not enough money in the 1% mind

Because the old adage that you can't be too thin or too rich is up there with the 10 Commandments. Taking all of our money isn't sufficient to satisfy their gluttonous greed. The richer they get the more they crave more. Wealth is their addiction. More is never enough.

[Eddie Haskell]

42. Don't forget

That pension money would still be there if not for the Bush economic crash. I'm amazed these dumb shit voters keep taking it up the ass and don't realize who's putting what, where.

[99Forever]

44. A tipping point either...

... has or will be reached and the storm will roll in. Even stupid cannot stop it.

[truedelphi]

71. Well said. Plus One. n/t

[Bonhomme Richard]

45. "insufficient revenue"...and there lies the problem.

The middle class, that is providing that revenue, has seen their wages/salaries stagnate over the past 30 years while the wealthy make more money and pay less taxes.
The crazy thing is that the anger is easily manipulated toward those that may,may, seem to be doing better which continues to drag everyone down except the wealthy.
Where is the anger toward those that have taken advantage of a system that rewards the few at the expense of the many?
Sometimes I really believe that there is some version of mental illness in this nation that has gone undiagnosed.

[snappyturtle]

48. You are so right! Talking to the wealthy and those protecting their wealth is

like talking to an addict about his addiction....and the addict
doesn't recognize it.

[snappyturtle]

49. K&R< K&R<K&R! Wouldn't you like to know Stinky, in dollars, how much

the .01% has cost our country? I would. All we hear is
how the poor and middle class (if it even exists anymore)
have spent us into all this debt.

I like your statement of taxing the rich until their eyeballs
bleed....yes! About time we do just that. Unfortunately,
I don't believe that will happen.

[NNN0LHI]

50. California Proposition 13 (1978)

[Orsino]

54. The Big Fucking Lie: that we value life.

We value the living of our ruling class, for sure, and I never see anything taking precedence.

[Doctor_J]

57. If we ever decide to revolt,

complete obliteration of every single person, place, and thing associated with Big Media would be the best first step. Once the propaganda apparatus has been completely annihilated, taking back the country will be a manageable task.

The alternative is to end up like Rwanda, where the Tutsi populace failed to deal with the fascist media, and paid a dear price. Ours may be too far down the path toward complete control to be dealt with, but if we were to inflict heavy casualties, a major step would have been taken toward restoring democracy.

[DCKit]

58. Scott Walker is BARELY in office after the vote, now he's going to be incicted.

However, he won't get anywhere near the time he deserves, unless they find a joint on him.

[Doctor_J]

68. Please explain to me what "barely in office" means

Is he somehow going to not enact more far-right legislation? Come to his senses and govern like a sane person?

Jesus H. Christ. Posts like yours are so discouraging

[drdtroit]

59. America is mentally ill. n/t

[flpoljunkie]

60. Few bother to mention top the 2% will be paying only 4.6% more on taxable income over $250K!

These folks did extremely well when they were paying this rate under Bill Clinton. And, where are the 'jobs created' by the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003?

[stupidicus]

67. of course it's about revenues

not to mention the usual fearmongering and blame shifting http://truth-out.org/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=184:public-pensions-102

[Initech]

72. The right wing has done a great job of convincing people that they'll be millionaires.

Like "Joe" The "Plumber" - who was not named Joe nor was he a plumber. But he was gonna have his own plumbing business someday - he was gonna!!!!

That's my favorite example of the GOP everyman - just an average guy who wants to live the American dream. But he doesn't - he's just another sad statistic. And they do a great job of exploiting that fantasy - that's the only thing the GOP does well - is to convince people that they're gonna be rich. So they've done nothing but demonize handouts, taxes, universal health care and things like that - so the "I've got mine fuck you" crowd has something to get angry about on election day. Because god forbid we should help those less fortunate.

[Odin2005]

76. A-FUCKING-MEN!!!

We don't have a spending problem, we have a revenue problem.