"I will vote for Sanders or Trump"

[edhopper]

I have seen this posted by people in other forums, FB and the like.
WTF!! It boggles the mind how shallow the human mind can be.
Okay, you want an anti-government candidate. First Bernie has been in the Government longer than Hilary, i get his anti-establishment credentials, but he is definitely pro-government, and a bigger one than we have now. (It's why we like him)
And Trump isn't anti-government or anti-establishment, he is anti-reason, anti intellect and anti-democracy.

[silvershadow]

1. Trump is to the left of her, why are you surprised? nt

[edhopper]

7. Bullshit

utter compost.

[LyndaG]

11. Really?

Trump said women who have abortions should be punished. Hillary is pro-choice.

[peacebird]

44. She is open to limits on abortion as long as there is exception for health of the mother

[edhopper]

45. really?

Politicians have no business interfering with women's personal health decisions. I will oppose efforts to roll back women's access to reproductive health care, including Republican efforts to defund Planned Parenthood. As president, I'll stand up for Planned Parenthood and women’s access to critical health services, including safe, legal abortion.

HRC

that's bullshit.

[Mona]

49. She supports ban on late term abortions, with exceptions for health of the mother

Q: Are there circumstances when the government should limit choice?

LAZIO: I had a pro-choice record in the House, and I believe in a woman’s right to choose. I support a ban on partial-birth abortions. Senator Moynihan called it “infanticide.” Even former mayor Ed Koch agreed that this was too extreme a procedure. This is an area where I disagree with my opponent. My opponent opposes a ban on partial-birth abortions.

CLINTON: My opponent is wrong. I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected. I’ve met women who faced this heart-wrenching decision toward the end of a pregnancy. Of course it’s a horrible procedure. No one would argue with that. But if your life is at stake, if your health is at stake, if the potential for having any more children is at stake, this must be a woman’s choice.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Cabinet/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm

[Mona]

50. "I Could Compromise on Abortion If It Included Exceptions For Mother's Health"

A more recent quote in title, though I haven't watched the video:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/29/hillary_clinton_i_could_compromise_on_abortion_if_it_included_exceptions_for_mothers_health.html

...if there's a way to structure some kind of constitutional restriction that take into account the life of the mother and her health, then I'm open to that.

[LyndaG]

51. I do not believe she would appoint Pro Life justices

Trump has said he would.

[pnwmom]

67. When a partial-birth abortion is done, it is done to protect the life and health of the mother.

So Hillary is supporting partial birth abortions of viable fetuses in the real world where no doctor would kill a healthy fetus without a good medical reason.

[peacebird]

59. Actually I agree it IS bullshit, but she offered it up. Hillary said she would be willing to have

limits on abortion as long as health of the mother was a failsafe....

[itcfish]

64. First of All

there are very very few doctors that would even perform late term abortions unless the mother's life was in danger, so this point is absolutely moot. Nonsense to please the pro-lifers. If you ever read up on the subject you would know this.

[peacebird]

65. Agree, but then I do not support Hills and her pandering on this has me puzzled...

[pnwmom]

66. Hillary fully supports Roe v. Wade, which is the same position that Bernie takes.

On the other hand, neither of them have said they would condone the killing of a healthy 39 week fetus unless there was a valid medical reason.

[joshcryer]

14. He wants to bring back gulags and he's to her left?

Are you fucking serious here?

[HereSince1628]

23. IMO, Trump is all over the place. Sometimes to the left, often to the right

That's what chasing populism is about. His is a form about triangulating on what's popular on the street

That's unlike Clintonian triangulation which is about cuddling up to an opponent's positions which are popular.

Sander's isn't chasing populism. His positions are pretty much the same as they were decades old. Sanders hasn't chased popularity, the fashion of whats popularity has finally rolled right in front of him

[MH1]

29. A) Trump is on a different planet. B) Trump's positions change with the audience.

It really isn't possible to compare the two.

[Duckhunter935]

38. Well hers do too

Pro gun in Pennsylvania one day, rabid anti-gun the next in Connecticut

[metroins]

53. No comparison

Trump is nuts.

[silvershadow]

56. There's that triangulation again. Ive she's the monimee, I'm out of here. nt

[metroins]

57. Where ya going?

[Kelvin Mace]

30. Umm, no...

We have no idea where he is since he really has no clue about reality and his positions tend to change more than HRC's. I am voting for Bernie, PERIOD. If he is not on the ballot in November I will vote all the down-ballot races, but never in a million years, short of a gun at my wife's head, would I vote for Trump.

[Buzz Clik]

39. Oh, deah! I do sweah your declaration has given me the vapors!

[emulatorloo]

46. Yes, just like Cruz is to the left of Bernie.

<sarcasm>

[gollygee]

62. No he is not

That's just silly. You can support your candidate without making ridiculous statements like that.

[Adrahil]

63. Complete horseshit.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm

Just a couple highlights.....

Ban abortion except for rape and incest.
0% corproate taxes.
The EPA is a "disgrace"
Advocates strong emphasis on oil and other fossil fuels
Advocates no additional limits on guns

That's just a few points to put the lie to your nonsense.

[Wounded Bear]

2. I've seen some of that myself...

it boggles the mind. But given the depth of the "both sides the same" bullshit out there, my surprise is a bit softened.

Still, I mean,

[RKP5637]

6. I think what is happening is some people, perhaps many, are so fed up with the establishments

they want change at any cost even if likely detrimental to them.

[yourout]

3. Some of it is anti establishment but most of it is anti TPP.

The power brokers in both parties have seriously misread the disgust on both sides about it.

That or they are so corrupted they don't care.

[edhopper]

9. Most I have seen say this

wouldn't know the TTP if they wiped their ass with it. It is mostly from low information voters.

[RKP5637]

15. They are so corrupt they don't care, many of them, it's all about $$$$$'s, not the future of the

country for "we the people." In fact for many of them "we the people" are just in the way like disgruntled employees. The US is NOT a well country for the 99%.

[Wounded Bear]

17. The thing is, I don't see Trump as being anti-TPP...

and I don't care what he has said on the stump. I don't believe a single thing he says. He's never shown anything resembling support of anything other than personal profit and gain, and he'll do anything to get that.

He's already shown that he will undercut American jobs and institutions for profit. Proven it countless times.

[Jackilope]

4. Think the nation is ready for a third party?

Lots of legitimate reasons to not be happy with either of the two parties.

BTW, I like your username. Edward Hopper is one of my favorite artists!

[RKP5637]

8. I think it is, but hard to tell how it will develop, if ever, the current two are so entrenched. nt

[edhopper]

12. Thanks

I think we need four parties for it to work, A more moderate GOPlike party and a true left/progressive one.

[RKP5637]

19. I agree! I've thought that for some time. All we have now is an endless domestic quarrel between

R's and D's, and little gets accomplished. It needs to be broken up by a four party system. Already we see two parties in both the D's and R's = 4.

[demmiblue]

5. I saw many, many people on social media who said they would vote for Hillary or Trump.

[edhopper]

10. That is a ponder too

are they anti Bernie or anti Cruz?

[demmiblue]

25. I was being facetious.

If you don't have examples, then I tend to be skeptical.

[edhopper]

28. It's just antidotal

I have seen it on FB and a few other discussion forums. Others have seen it too. I doubt it is a large % of voters, but I have seen it enough to wonder what's up with these people.

What do you want, links to posts on other boards of anonymous people saying this? Why?

If you don't believe this, don't. Not a big deal.

[demmiblue]

31. Ok, much ado about nothing. n/t

[edhopper]

43. for the most part, yes

I just saw a bit of it today and thought i would spout off about it here.
No biggie.

[Angel Martin]

13. if your issues are trade,

illegal immigration, and too big to fail banks (like mine are) it might make sense.

I want Trump vs Sanders so we at least get some action on trade no matter who wins.

[edhopper]

20. Youy like trumps ideas on

immigration

[Angel Martin]

34. same effect as trade

force feeding as much labour supply as possible to drive down middle class incomes

i also don't like the idea that legal immigrants wait and wait, while these other people just run across the southern border and immediately get drivers licenses, social benefits, no deportation etc. with amnesty and citizenship in the future.

I have a cousin who is Canadian, married to an American, who has been waiting for a >year for a green card so she can work in Oregon.

She should just run across the southern border and start the next day.

Democrats used to understand the economic damage and unfairness of this. But they have been so enticed by the opportunity to change the demographics of the country and improve their political position, that most don't care anymore.

all i can says is, be careful what you wish for, because the law of unintended consequences can really throw some curveballs.

[edhopper]

41. There are roughly 6-8 million undocumented workers

here in a workforce of 120 million. Mostly in agriculture and low skilled labor.
It is not what is destroying the middle class, that would be Trumps finance friends.

[Angel Martin]

48. Republican business elites would not be in favor

of immigration "reform" unless it benefitted them economically, ie. reduced labor costs.

all the plant closings caused by imports left those unemployed manufacturing workers competing for the remaining service jobs. Then we have 8 mil additional labor supply of illegals plus their children etc (who are legal) to drive down incomes even more.

this has been going on since the changes in trade and immigration policy in the late 1960's/ early 1970's. Both Democratic and Repub elites have long supported immigration "reform" as well as TPP type "free" trade deals.

Sanders and Trump are the first prominent national candidates to talk about these issues since Perot flamed out in 1996.

[Kalidurga]

36. I have met "build a wall Democrats"

But, I don't think that poster is saying they like Trump's ideas on immigration. Just that there are those Democrats that do. Weird lot they are.

[Zynx]

42. Trump wouldn't do a flipping thing about the banks.

And his tax policies are flatly immoral.

[rhett o rick]

16. So many just don't get it. Have no clue. How many times will Charlies Brown

keep trying to kick the football. We are sick, sick, sick of the shit the Establishment have been feeding us. Don't tell us that if we vote for Establishment Thing 1 we will have small shit bites then if we vote for Establishment Thing 2. People are literally dying because of the ever widening wealth gap that has made the Clintons super-duper wealthy and she isn't about to change it.
We wanted change with Obama but he was only foolin'. We have the highest infant mortality rate of all modern nations. That's inexcusable, but some say stick with the status quo, sit down and shut up. Homey don't play that game.

I don't want Trump but understand the millions and millions that are sick of the status quo.

[Wounded Bear]

21. I understand all that, believe me...

I just don't get how anybody could believe for a moment that Trump would improve any of that.

[edhopper]

22. I get that for Bernie

but all Trumps plans will make the wealthy richer.

[rhett o rick]

60. I don't disagree and I would never support Trump. My point is that there are a lot of people on

both sides that are sick of the Establishment. And who can blame the left for getting tired of being disparaged day after day and then told to acquiesce to the Powers That Be.

If Democrats don't want Trump, they need to get behind Sanders. If you support Clinton you must be willing to risk it all.

[Agnosticsherbet]

18. Anyone who votes for Trump agree with racism, sexism, white supremacy

and the 1%.

They are, mini-Trumps.

[HooptieWagon]

24. Or it could be retaliation, like Hillary's enemies list. Nt

[Mz Pip]

26. Supreme Court

Anybody really think Trump's SCOTUS appointees will be left of Clinton? Seriously? Bill appointed the notorious RBG. Can't imagine Hillary will be asking the Heritage Foundation for recommendations like Trump said he would.

SCOTUS has the power to set back whatever progress we've made for decades. I expect there will be rulings on these idiot religious liberty laws, Voter ID Laws, LGBT referendums in the next few years.

But go ahead and vote for Trump because he's left of Hillary. If I could roll my eyes any harder they would fall out of my head. Geez.

[rhett o rick]

61. I care more about the infant mortality rate of the USofA. I ask how Democrats

can put the profits of Goldman-Sachs about our dying children. I don't get it. I won't play the best of evils game any more. If you want Trump then nominate Clinton and don't blame me.

[merrily]

27. Any Democrat voting Republican has lost his or her way.

[Jackilope]

33. The Democratic Party, hijacked, has lost its way.

I think about Blue Dogs and Third Way and corporate influence and in today's arguments, FDR would be painted an extremist and told his ideas couldn't be done.

[merrily]

35. I agree, but voting for Trump or any other Republican is not a solution to that problem.

Not one that makes sense, anyway.

[LibDemAlways]

32. What the Sanders or Trump voters are saying is

they won't vote for an establishment candidate. The fact that Bernie and Trump have virtually nothing in common doesn't matter to these voters -- it's all about shaking up the system and getting rid of the status quo.

[HooptieWagon]

37. Imo that's exactly what it is.

The number of Sanders Democrats who vote for Ttump will be smaller than the number of Democrats who voted for W.

[rock]

40. Some people do not understand politics

Even the basic situation of being put in a position where you are given the choice to cut off your nose to spite your face. (Most people will face reality and keep their noses.)

[davidn3600]

54. George Washington would think party loyaltists don't understand politics

George Washington railed against political parties in his farewell address. He believed that it would lead to a situation where individual thought is crushed by party elitists who are determined to keep the rank and file in line.

He also viewed it as divisive and will ultimately grind political progress to a halt as the parties try to enact revenge and alliances with each other.

Honestly, can you say he's wrong?

[rock]

55. No, I say he's right

But in politics you have to be a realist. The parties are real (and they understand politics).

[Scootaloo]

47. Have you asked any of them why they have that position?

Have you paused to consider its implications?

[kcjohn1]

52. Would never vote for Trump, but

If he were to be elected it would be because of his populist positions. Because of this I feel he would be more intone with public opinion than your traditional politician like Clinton. Look at how he got this far in the GOP primary. He has gone against the Establishment and attacked common GOP doctrines. Typically they are only racist behind doors, but he has brought that front & center of his campaign to the delight of the base. Trade? Hates it. Iraq war? Has called the GOP out on it when most Dems are too afraid to bring it up. Crony capitalism / Campaign Finance? Has any GOP candidate ever spoke about this?

Hillary on the hand has gotten this far primarily because of the establishment and her financiers. That is who she will be responding to. Trump will get as far as people who vote for him. If he doesn't respond to the mood of the country, he can kiss any 2nd term good bye.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

58. Anti-reason? Despite all the obvious about him - he is very

pro-reason. He is asking questions that are making everyone scratch their heads. Like why can't the government bid out the insurance they buy? Why can't we go across state lines to buy insurance - creating competition? Why do we have troops everywhere? Why do we protect so much of the world? Why can't we get American rich people to bring their money home from off-shore. Why is it that everything in our stores is made somewhere else?


Hidden behind all the crap - he is asking questions I would like a Democrat to ask. But they can't because it's same old same old. Look at Obama - the most kind and altruistic rose colored glass person ever to become president. Look what the system did to him....stopped him, ridiculed him at every turn. Amazingly - he pushed forward - the pragmatist he is ...