General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums272 Slaves Were Sold to Save Georgetown. What Does It Owe Their Descendants?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/17/us/georgetown-university-search-for-slave-descendants.html?module=WelcomeBackModal&contentCollection=N.Y.%20%2F%20Region®ion=FixedCenter&action=click&src=recg&pgtype=article&_r=0<snip>
The human cargo was loaded on ships at a bustling wharf in the nations capital, destined for the plantations of the Deep South. Some slaves pleaded for rosaries as they were rounded up, praying for deliverance.
But on this day, in the fall of 1838, no one was spared: not the 2-month-old baby and her mother, not the field hands, not the shoemaker and not Cornelius Hawkins, who was about 13 years old when he was forced onboard.
Their panic and desperation would be mostly forgotten for more than a century. But this was no ordinary slave sale. The enslaved African-Americans had belonged to the nations most prominent Jesuit priests. And they were sold, along with scores of others, to help secure the future of the premier Catholic institution of higher learning at the time, known today as Georgetown University.
Now, with racial protests roiling college campuses, an unusual collection of Georgetown professors, students, alumni and genealogists is trying to find out what happened to those 272 men, women and children. And they are confronting a particularly wrenching question: What, if anything, is owed to the descendants of slaves who were sold to help ensure the colleges survival?
--------------------------
villager
(26,001 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)A degree from Georgetown looks good on a résumé
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Lets say you were born in the year 2000. Easy round number and its somebody who would be considering college soon.
If we go back 7 generations, I would expect you to have 128 ancestors.
Or put another way, one person from 1838 should have 128 people today who are related to them.
Lets assume of those 272 slaves, every single one was married to another slave. It makes the math more optimistic. That means you have 136 married couples who now have 17,500 descendants who qualify for free college. In 25 years it will be 34,000. In 50 years it will be 68,000 people eligible for free college. I'm not sure how well that would work out.
Also, my math is seriously flawed, but I wanted to give optimistic numbers. Every person has 2 parents. That part is easy. But not every parent has 2 kids. Back in the 1900, they often had much more. So we may not be at 68,000 eligible people for free college in 50 years, we may be there today.
LisaM
(27,830 posts)I did like the idea of scholarships being set up for descendants. Not a fair tradeoff by any means, but it does have value (though I'd hope Georgetown would be very careful to protect the privacy of anyone who earned one of these scholarships). I wouldn't be surprised if this same scenario turns up again.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)To any disability people reading this post who think this is a distraction, or irrelevant, or somehow losing a focus on disability -- stop. Stop with the single-issue politics. Disabled people of color -- and disabled Black people in particular -- don't have the luxury of pretending that we can engage with only one issue, one category of identity or experience. Our experiences with ableism are inevitably and inextricably intertwined with our experiences with racism. Racial justice IS disability justice, and disabled people of color must demand disability solidarity with Black-led movements.
To Georgetown University: Step up your game. Listen to your Black students -- my friends, my former classmates, my colleagues. These are the moments that will mark our university's history for the next generation to come as either the institution that chose to make hollow, conciliatory gestures or the institution willing to embark on the infinitely harder path of self-examination and long-term, systemic change centered around the members of the university community most impacted by white supremacy.
Disclaimer: The author is an FB friend.
malaise
(269,157 posts)Very good
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)She is presently a 1L at Northeastern in Boston.
hamsterjill
(15,224 posts)From the article:
"She is outraged that the churchs leaders sanctioned the buying and selling of slaves, and that Georgetown profited from the sale of her ancestors. She feels great sadness as she envisions Cornelius as a young boy, torn from everything he knew."
I echo this sentiment. One can only imagine the horror that these human beings felt. Let us never forget.
malaise
(269,157 posts)Our ancestors enriched all these scumbags who pretend to be oh so good.
Igel
(35,356 posts)It all but blessed the Portuguese and Spanish slave trade, and slavery lasted longer in some Catholic countries than in North America.
Then again, many Catholic Italians were also taken as slaves and sold. Not by the Spanish or Portuguese, mind you.
The advocates for the slaves and their descendants also pointed out how cruel the Jesuits were to the slaves.
Not pointed out by the advocates was that the plantations hadn't been profitable for years, as Georgetown went into debt. Unclear if the plantations were responsible for any of the debt or consumed resources. However, the cruelty increased as the debt and non-profitability increased, as the caretakers (priests themselves) tried to coerce greater productivity. It's not always what's said that matters, but also what's not said. Partial truths are often pleasing for their simplicity.
I also have to wonder if Georgetown hit any other bottlenecks that required a later savior.
BTW, this is old news for students at Georgetown.
http://www.thehoya.com/slavery/
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)They were in bed wife the Nazis, too
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)With reparations, but this seems like a situation where scholarships for those who qualify for admission would make sense.
phylny
(8,386 posts)how it could work and be applied. Knowledge might change my mind.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)My ancestors were enslaved by the Holy Roman Empire. Can I get a check from the Italian government?
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)BluegrassDem
(1,693 posts)against Italy. I have no problem with that. Go for it. Italy may even allow reparations.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)After the fall of Rome, Italy wasn't unified for over a millennium.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)For a long time on DU. At least you are consistent.
The difference is, of course, that the system of oppression that affected the lives of these slaves still exists, in a modified form. The Holy Roman Empire is not still oppressing you.
Better you than me
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I think I've coined a new term.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)sometimes there's just no room for empathy.
Your term is a good one for this bizarre form of cultural appropriation.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)would be Germany or perhaps Austria.
As one writer said - it wasn't holy, it wasn't Roman and it wasn't an empire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire
rug
(82,333 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)The Romans ruled most of western Europe, and they practiced mass enslavement.
Millions of descendants of enslaved Celts could now ask Italians for damages?
Ditto for the one millenium of enslavement by "Barbary Coast" pirates.
Millions of descendants of enslaved Europeans could now ask Maghreb countries for damages?
Democat
(11,617 posts)I didn't read the article, but what difference does it make if they sold them or kept them as slaves? Both are evil.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Democat
(11,617 posts)Somehow the idea that they were sold seems to be the important part of the headline. But if they hadn't sold them, is it assumed they would have been set free rather than just kept as slaves?