Is anyone else tired of the Pollyanna routine?

[demwing]

I sure as hell am...

So much for everyone that blew excuses from their asses about how Obama shouldn't go to Wisconsin - how it was a local issue and that the local Dems can do just fine, thank you.

Well done. Well done to you, and to Obama.

Barrett did worse this round than he did before. How is that worth praise?
Repuke Govs around the country will be eager to copy Walker's tactics. Thank you!

Your "ground game" was weak, your candidate was sleepwalking, and you blew the biggest fucking chance this country had to slap corporate money to the ground. People power? Really? You have no idea what we ALL lost because YOU all took a knife to a gunfight. A plastic picnic knife.

What power do your people have now? Yet so many here want to give each other a high five for trying so hard.

Fuck that. FUCK that. FUCK THAT.

We are in a war, people. Guns have not yet been pulled, and lives have not lost, but today brought us a giant step closer to having such a violent path stand as the only remaining endgame in the struggle to preserve democracy.

I am more convinced than ever that the folks at DU who make excuses for Obama, who can never see any wrong in his actions regardless of how completely he abandons you, are nothing less than political Pollyannas - and should remain silent henceforth.

Or not, go ahead and talk all you damn well want. Free country, for now.

But your words have lost whatever measure of validity they once held, so don't expect anyone outside of the echo chamber to listen.

Never again.

[RobertEarl]

1. If you are blaming Obama

You are wrong. If you think Obama could have swayed the election, you are wrong. Maybe you just don't like Obama?

[scheming daemons]

5. this

[TheWraith]

7. I agree.

Yeah, it sucks for Wisconsin, but this is neither the end of the world nor something that could easily have been avoided. Weak candidate, outspent, and the uphill battle of a recall to boot.

[demwing]

11. I like Obama just fine

Handsome dude, great smile, class act, and clearly a gentleman and a scholar. I wish I knew him personally.

But he is no longer the candidate he represented himself to be in 2008, if he ever was that candidate to begin with.

Do you believe that unions are the backbone of the middle class? Do you believe that our economic and social strengths were built on their sacrifices? Do you believe that the destruction of Unions in this country is a death blow to the Democratic party?

I do.

Does Obama?

Oh wait...he twittered you all some hope. I thought he might put on his walking shoes and hit the ground with your state, but he must have meant something else, right?

Right?

[lunatica]

36. But you want him to put on his flying cape right?

By all means blame him. Don't blame the billionaires who flooded Wisconsin with millions or the Republican legislature who decimated the unions with their laws or who redrew the districts or who cut every program they could in Walker's one year and a half as governor. Don't blame the media who conveniently had other things to do rather than investigate the lies and who turned a blind eye to the corruption going on.

If you think he could fix that you're really deluded. It's obvious today that the fix was already in as soon as the money started flowing in. If you want to come away with a real lesson, then get real with your expectations and look at the facts. Obama isn't some super hero who is letting us down. He's not perfect no matter how much any of us would like that.

[SidDithers]

41. You win the thread with very first reply...nt

Sid

[Crunchy Frog]

2. Actually, I've recently adopted a new political philosophy

called fatalism. You won't see any Pollyanna coming from me. I think this country is headed for out and out facsism.

[demwing]

24. Or a brawl

if anyone has the intestinal fortitude to fight the fascists.

I've lost my son, my wife, my home, my job, and my god damned car. What are the gonna take if I fight? My birthday?

Being fatalistic can be liberating, I encourage you to give up on giving a shit. People with nothing to lose are quite valuable.

[JNelson6563]

30. Sounds like you've been through hell.

Might as well blame the President.

I'm not fatalistic, I'm Irish. If I live to fight another day then I haven't completely lost yet. So yeah, go postal. See how far it gets you. Be sure to spread negativity where-ever you go, that will help you cause immeasurably.

Julie--who marvels how, whenever there's any kind of loss, the end is nigh folks come out

[MrMickeysMom]

33. Could well be...

What does it take?

THIS is the start.

I normally applaud those who DID try, like those in WS who tried.

But, the nation, the Democratic Party.... It is falling to the wayside and in for one HELL of a reality check.

It's going to start rolling in my state (PA) soon with Governor Gashole. It's going to take pain to bring the Democratic Party to real existence or make room for something that IS real.

[Carolina]

37. I totally agree

I'm a Fatalist, too.

[scheming daemons]

3. Clueless, as usual

Obama wasn't making up an 8-point deficit.


Going to Wisconsin would have been the height of stupidity for the Obama campaign, and I'm glad you aren't running it.

[demwing]

6. Yes, because your way

worked so much damned better.

I'm glad you think I'm clueless. I would consider it a grand failure if we agreed.

[Logical]

51. Lol, your methods have worked great!

[Scootaloo]

4. And you did what, exactly?

And what recourse do you recommend?

[demwing]

9. I did whatever the hell I did

from Florida.

But you're right...your path was clearly superior. I congratulate you on a cunning victory...

holy shit.

[Scootaloo]

12. Screaming and flailing your fists at other people here seems to be improving things.

Keep at it.

[demwing]

14. I have no desire to improve things here

that's been your job. Congrats, and well done.

My goal is to stir up the shit you don't want to touch, because SOMEONE has to do it. Someone has to get dirty, because it's a dirty damned game.

But keep on playing it your way...it has worked so well for everyone, who am I to stop you?

[Scootaloo]

16. You're not 'stirring shit up,' though

You're screaming and blowing snot bubbles about how pissed you are that Obama is still president. Your contributions are pretty minimal; hell, there are other posters who are doing the anti-Obama frothing far better than you, even.

Now. Answer the fucking question, oh agitator-of-dung, what are your recommendations?

[Scootaloo]

20. So you're just barking.

So long as you enjoy yourself. I'm sure it will continue to be very effective at achieving tangible results for you.

[demwing]

21. No, just purposefully disrespectful to you

what now?

[Scootaloo]

22. You assume that disrespect from you...

Matters to a man wearing a My Little Pony avatar.

[lunatica]

38. + 1

[dionysus]

66. holy shit you just pwned their ass...

[demwing]

19. Are you still reading this Scooter?

go do as you were told and alert me.

[Poll_Blind]

8. Just wait until he extends the Bush Tax Cuts...AGAIN. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

As far as monetarily bringing a spork to a gunfight, it's going to be the new normal: Dems told not to expect Obama money

PB

[demwing]

15. We have 4 years

Under either Obama or Mittwit. What will we do with it?

[Poll_Blind]

17. LOL! You WANT those tax cuts to be extended, admit it!

Don't dance around it like that, just come out of the bank vault. Don't hold back, you'll feel better.

We can do it now or I can wait until you say what a grand idea it is when he extends them.

PB

[longship]

10. Sorry, This post is all wrong on so many levels.

Nearly alerted it. But that isn't my way.

Please, my friend, do not give into defeatism. There will always be tough losses. We Dems seem to specialize in them, especially since 1968.

But we're at an important juncture and the last thing we need is to lose people who have your passion. Don't give up. That is precisely what the crazies bank on. Remember, Walker said he wanted to divide and conquer.

Please don't give him what he wants.

Thanks.

[demwing]

13. I sincerely appreciate your calm, I just don't share it

In my opinion, we tried calm and rational for 4 years, and It just doesn't work.

Somebody has to say "I'll fight the fuckers. I'll make that sacrifice. I'll get as dirty as I need to, so the rest of you good folks can keep your hands clean."

Who will do that?

[JNelson6563]

31. You keep talking of "fighting" the "fuckers"

Ok, so you want to defeat the Rethugs, as do I. How do you propose fighting them? I do it by working in politics, what's your strategy?

Julie

[treestar]

46. +1

"Fighting" seems to mean expect Obama to wave a magic wand.

The whole idea that Obama setting foot in WI would change people's minds - and they accuse us of idolatry. In essence, they are saying a POTUS is magically able to affect anything and get anything.

[JNelson6563]

55. Exactly!

I guess I must be lacking the ability to do the logic twisting some here are so good at.

I'd say you did a fine job of describing it though!

Julie

[lunatica]

40. Oh please! Don't bother to fight for me

If you think it's only been going on for 4 years you really aren't smart enough to fight for me.

[treestar]

65. No, somebody has to say I'll convince people not to vote for the fuckers

And do so politely.

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. Walker did 'divide and conquer' - he divided Obama from Wisconsin Democrats, and defeated the latter

And the worrying thing is how easy Obama made it for him.

[ecstatic]

23. How much did you donate to Barrett?

He was outspent 8 to 1. We all could have and should have done more. We should take this as a lesson and I hope you're actually DOING something rather than just talking (typing).

[EFerrari]

26. The answer to this can't be money because we can't compete with their money.

It has to be something else. Maybe media strategy because we always run against the media, too, but we never seem to know that going in.

[Arkana]

54. It would have helped if a) people didn't hate recalls and b) Barrett wasn't the guy who lost

last time and wanted a mulligan.

[EFerrari]

63. Maybe so but both of those ideas are framing.

How much did the Koch brothers spend convincing people that they hated recalls I wonder.

[demwing]

27. every fucking penny left over from the crap unemployment

one can get in Florida. I now wish I would have saved it. I could have spent it on something for my boy.

Happy?

The lesson I took from this is that the other side wants to win more than we do, or is at least more willing to do whatever it takes to achieve their goals.

Many Dems don't have the cash to compete on that level, so we have to find an opportunity to get our game on in a way that matters. Shit has changed. Playing nice doesn't cut it anymore. Neither does relying on a President that goes by the nick name "No Drama" - if that meant he was a cold MFer who got the job done, I'd be psyched. What I've seen that it means is different - I've seen that it means that Obama can't get passionate enough to risk his ass on behalf of the middle class. I don't think he owns a pair of walking shoes...

[magical thyme]

47. the lesson for you is do not EVER take from your boy to feed a political machine

Not EVER.

If you're unemployed, spend excess time at phone banks or walking or something. And by excess time, I mean left over after your family time.

Or bring your boy along, to role model for him how to stand up for what you believe.

But money left over from unemployment, is food on the table after unemployment money runs out, and a buffer against the wolves at the door.

The political money, thanks to Citizens United, is no longer the dollars from citizens, it's the millions and billions of dollars from corporations. You simply cannot compete at that level, so do not even try. The wonderful supreme court cut the citizens out of that game, period.

[Wabbajack_]

25. I hoped to win this

But I don't understand how anyone *expected* to, Walker led in every poll.

[Burke36]

28. Spam deleted by pinto (MIR Team)

[truth2power]

29. Just to say, I was selected to serve on a jury regarding the OP....

I couldn't get back in after I went to review the entire thread. Some glitch. Sorry.

[xmas74]

32. Dems were outspent 8 to 1,

according to Rachel Maddow last night.

8 to 1.

And over 60% of the Walker money was from special interest and corporate out of state.

It's not a surprise that the recall wasn't won by a Dem. We were outspent, pure and simple.

[MrMickeysMom]

34. 25% of Barret's money came from out of state support, like me...

The question of fighting fascism will be this...

Everyone will fear June 5th because of this election? Go back to the 60's and see why June 5th is really so sad...

So fucking sad for those who don't get up and join the OWS movement all over the world.

[xmas74]

42. But that 25% was no where near what the

Repubs spent. The spending for months on end before a candidate was even chosen by the Dems was, IMO, what sealed their fate. Walker's entire campaign started before the recall was even officially on record and the spending on propaganda reflected it.

[MrMickeysMom]

64. That, plus something else I read here today, sealed the fate of the recall

... I have to agree with the person who observed some of the people from WS with some pretty narrow points of view, which basically acknowledge if they "don't have pensions", but the unions "had theirs". This, "we don't have ours, so fuck what the unions want" (my words, not as eloquent), I believe contribute to the people who never once recognized what has happened to the labor movement to mimic the 1930s in this country.

Really fucking sad and really contributing to the horror of what we are now going to be fighting against.... that is, unless a person flees "this country".

But, seriously, where are you going to go to get away from the global control of this? Iceland? Sweden?

[EFerrari]

52. And the Republican Party said they were going "all in".

John Nichols said they started attacking Barrett before he even announced his candidacy.

This morning he also pointed to the massive and many mailings, the TV ads and Walker's early jump on framing the issues.

[GeorgeGist]

39. All good DUers know ...

Until it does.

[CTyankee]

43. I think this defeat is more about the use of recall elections than anything

else. It seems plausible to me that Wisconsinites simply didn't think a special effort to reverse an election thru recall, except for instances of criminality, was the right thing to do.

Look at the exit polls that show that WI voters support Obama over Romney by a large percentage, despite what these voters might have voted in the recall election. That tells me they just didn't like the recall process. I can take some comfort in that, small tho it may be.

[bigtree]

44. if obama took up residence in Wisconsin, most of the same folks blaming him now

. . .would blame him for being too involved and making Barrett lose.

Blustering and bitching after this recall loss is amateurish and pollyanish.. Who fucking cares if YOURE listening. Making these petty threats about who you'll listen to is pathetic and sad. Railing against Obama supporters and defenders because people in Wisconsin didn't vote the way you wanted is disturbed. Seek help.

[treestar]

45. And if Obama had gone and Walker still won?

This is a state election. Yes there are such things. Maybe the people in that state really don't want to unseat their governor? Maybe they would not change their minds simply because the POTUS set foot in their state? Because the two things have nothing to do with each other?

[Honeycombe8]

48. You need to blame the voters of Wisconsin. They have spoken. They want Walker.

You are hypothesizing that Wisconsinites are so stupid that they would've changed their position on Walker just because someone told them to.

The federal govt is different from, and separate from, state governments. Other than endorsing someone, a federal official has no business getting involved in a state's government.

The blame is in the laps of the Wisconsin voters. Despite a record turnout by Democrats, the Republicans had a better turnout. And that tells everyone that Wisconsin supports Walker and wants unions to be destroyed.

[joeybee12]

49. KNR

[Raven]

50. And what did you do, demwing, to

help the cause in WI?

[MineralMan]

53. Recalling Governors is very difficult.

That's why Walker won. I thought it might go the other way, but was prepared for what happened.

When polls showed that a lot of people thought a Governor shouldn't be recalled over political position, I got very worried about this election.

We lost one. Time to redouble our efforts for November.

[CTyankee]

56. I tend to agree. It IS difficult to recall governors, even if Walker didn't have

unlimited $$$. Chuck Todd was saying that if Herb Kohl had been the Dem instead Barrett, the Dems might have had a good chance to oust Walker. But I really don't know how Kohl would fare so differently...perhaps in name recognition?

[MineralMan]

58. We'll never know if a different candidate would have made a difference.

Sadly.

[CTyankee]

62. My husband is a WI native and he said that Kohl is by far the most popular politician in

the state. But since he is retiring I don't see him wanting to up and run for governor. Just my 2 cents for what it is worth...

[dionysus]

57. i'm tired of digruntled non\former dems using DU to campaign against the president all the time.

[MineralMan]

59. +1E6

[ananda]

60. Yes.

Is playing nice and polite something reserved for losers, while the
corrupt and victorious Reeps get to operate outside the bounds
of laws and good behavior?

I mean, Roms is running on a background of corrupt, criminal,
predatory capitalism.

[JCMach1]

61. There shouldn't have been a Democratic Primary... damn it! There should have been unity

in this situation.

[blue neen]

67. No.

Thanks for asking, though!

[Shankapotomus]

68. Did Obama tell Wisconsin to attempt a recall?

No.

[blue neen]

69. Just remember:

It's normal to see the world through your own perspective, it's a mistake to assume that EVERYONE else sees it just as you do.

[datasuspect]

70. cool post bro

but we're better off with dry powder and no drama.

that way we can be sure we don't things that make repubs think bad about us.

but if they do, we can admit our shellacking and apologize.