DUers who use teenage babysitters - do you pay them at least $15 per hour?

[Nye Bevan]

And if not, will you pay them $15 per hour if the national minimum wage is raised to that level?

As it happens where I live $15 per hour is about the going rate for high school kids who babysit, so I would not be affected, but I don't think that's the case everywhere in the US.

[revbones]

1. Given that it's not the law yet, many probably do not.

[1StrongBlackMan]

53. I doubt, for most people ...

the national minimum wage is even a consideration when paying a teenage baby-sitter ... just like it isn't for the kid cutting grass, shoveling snow or running errands.

Now ... go ahead and argue otherwise.

[FreakinDJ]

2. You can't get Home Depot laborers for less then $15

you know - the ones Trump wants to deport

[peacebird]

3. Minimum wage does not apply to teens who babysit

[philosslayer]

6. Shouldn't it?

Why not?

[peacebird]

14. Perhaps, but around here a teens babysitting rate is not tied to min wage.

It is decided between the teen and the parents hiring the teen.

[philosslayer]

20. You didn't answer my question

It's labor in exchange for a service. Why should it not be the same as minimum wage?

[peacebird]

22. I did. I said "perhaps".

[Nye Bevan]

24. The sudden libertarian turn that DU has taken when DUers are the ones who have to pay the min. wage,

is highly illuminating.

[CreekDog]

83. if you're against the wage going up to $15/hour you should have the guts to admit it

instead, we have to suffer through another one of your OP's.

at least you're not praising Thatcher in this one.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

107. Thank you. Your post resonated with me

And by resonated, I mean, "why didn't I think to say it that way?" Thanks.

[MrsMatt]

58. because babysitting is not covered under the Fair Labor Standards Act

https://www.workplacefairness.org/child-labor


15. Do child labor laws apply to babysitting?
No. Youth employed as babysitters are not covered by the FLSA's child labor and wage and hour provisions. In most cases the same is true of state law. For more information you may want to contact your state's labor standards office.

[Hoyt]

101. Convenient excuse.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

28. Are you nervous about poor people being paid more because you think it will

reduce your income investments/wall street, stock market, etc?

What other possible reason is there to be concerned about poor people being paid a living wage?

[Nye Bevan]

7. Why should the minimum wage law cover a teen who works in fast food,

and not a teen who engages in child care?

[Texasgal]

21. Is that teen reporting wages

and being taxed on them?

[Nye Bevan]

25. I never thought to ask that question of anyone working for me. Do you ask them? (nt)

[Texasgal]

34. If the teen is flipping burgers

and having taxes taken out, then the baby sitter is not whom do you you think should get the wage?

[pintobean]

52. If they work for you, you are the one responsible to withhold

taxes and ss, and pay the employer share of ss. Don't you supply them with a w4, so you know how much to withhold?
Surely you wouldn't pay these people under the table, then accuse other DUers of hypocrisy.

[Nye Bevan]

54. Only if you pay them more than $1000 per quarter.

https://www.sittercity.com/nanny/nanny-taxes

[truebluegreen]

105. So you never thought to pay your share of FICA for them either?

[Recursion]

110. They certainly should be, legally (nt)

[LisaM]

29. You should get MORE for childcare than for other jobs.

We were just discussing this last night in my writer's group. Traditional caregiving role (e.g., women's jobs) were not monetized for a long time; hence, people who value things in monetary terms tend to dismiss this as a real job.

On the other hand, how much do we pay the kids who mow our lawns? A flat fee?

[csziggy]

55. I pay the young men who help in the garden depending on the situations

For mowing, they are independent contractors since they bring their own equipment and I don't directly supervise them every minute. We negotiate their fees for the job and it is a flat rate.

For jobs like helping to weed and clear areas when they are using my tools, I pay them $12 an hour and either my husband or I are directing them (so they will not accidentally cut down the wrong things).

If minimum wage went up, I would increase how much I pay hourly - same as when gas went up I increased the contract labor fee since their costs had gone up.

I have no ideas about childcare - never had kids. The one family I babysat for when I was a teen paid me decently - I think it was $1.50 and hour in 1964. I don't know what minimum wage was then. In the early 1970s I made $1.65 working in the college library - that was my first real job.

[uppityperson]

62. Very much agree. Pay more to those you are entrusting your children to.

[CreekDog]

84. If that was being proposed, you'd probably put up an OP like this one

rather than simply stating your opposition to it.

[pugetres]

9. Heck. Minimum wage

did not even apply to me as employed teen. I worked for "student" wages my senior year of high-school. Subminimum wages but there were rules that the employer had to follow in regards to when and how long I worked. I could have earned more babysitting!

[mike_c]

12. that just means you don't have to pay them minimum wage....

But we still should, unless we pay them more. Also at restaurants I typically tip $15 or 20% of the total, whichever is highest. I figure I usually spend about an hour or so occupying my server's table, or at least close enough.

[peacebird]

17. We leave 20% also.

[Recursion]

109. Uhh... legally it certainly does

The only exclusions are some agricultural workers

[Kingofalldems]

4. Good try.

[philosslayer]

8. Please elaborate

[Kingofalldems]

11. Good try at undercutting the minimum wage proposals.

What's your opinion of the $15 minimum wage?

[philosslayer]

23. That if the minimum wage is $15 per hour...

Then parents have a moral obligation to pay babysitters $15 an hour.

[Kingofalldems]

30. Not for one night. Permanent or regular babysitting, yes.

So are you for or against the minimum wage hike? If you are against it, then why are you introducing 'moral obligation' to the conversation? Are you being sarcastic to liberals?

[philosslayer]

31. So if someone works for just one day...

They don't deserve minimum wage for that one day? Is that your position?

[Kingofalldems]

37. No. Please do not put words down that I never said or wrote.

Day laborers definitely should get $15 per.

Why won't you answer my question? Do you favor the republican position on the minimum wage in general?

[philosslayer]

44. So why shouldn't babysitters?

You said they should not.

[Kingofalldems]

45. Answer my question please.

And see post #10.

[philosslayer]

48. I support raising the minimum wage

Now it's your turn. You're comfortable with a one time babysitter getting less than minimum wage?

[Kingofalldems]

65. Yep. See post 10. Now if someone wants to do it, fine.

I got less than minimum babysitting for a neighbor way back when. It's called being neighborly.
I also got a flat fee for mowing lawns.

BTW, I support raising the minimum to $15. What about you?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

77. To what?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

108. Why have you ducked his question twice in a row? Are you not able to answer it?

I sometimes tell people who try this shit with me that they get ZERO questions answered until they've addressed mine. I don't let people control the flow of a conversation like a right wing radio host. I don't permit it in the conversations I conduct.

[CreekDog]

86. you don't have the courage to state your opposition to the minimum wage

that's what we should be talking about.

or more precisely, why is it you're so afraid to post your opinion on the topic here at DU?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

33. I see you didnt get an answer yet. You know what I find amusing, people who

are against paying the poor a decent wage, usually have investment reasons.

But I also know lower middle class folks who have bought the LIE that paying people more costs them more, it doesn't.

It actually improves their lives regardless of where they sit on the economic ladder.

But brainwashing works.

[philosslayer]

63. See post 48

[CreekDog]

87. how many of your posts does it take to derail a thread?

just wondering.

[Kingofalldems]

66. Thank you. BTW, your name is reet petite.

[Kelvin Mace]

41. Do you really want to go there?

About "moral" obligations versus "legal" obligations? Now I am cool with that, but it damned sure better apply to everyone across the board and at all levels of society.

The question under discussion is the minimum wage LAW, not the minimum wage MORAL OBLIGATION. We are looking to set minimum standards of compensation for businesses, who operate under the regulatory authority of the state, versus private individuals compensating non-regulated activities.

[philosslayer]

46. So if a business hires someone.

One set of rules apply. If YOU hire someone, another set of rules apply.

[Kelvin Mace]

80. I pretty much made myself plain

I am perfectly happy to apply my moral views across the board, but then there are plenty of people who will be very unhappy about that. I believe a woman's right to an abortion is absolute, a significant number, including many here, do not. I believe waging any form of war except in self-defense is immoral, a significant number, including many here, do not.

So, are you telling me that we should be legislating moral belief as law? If so, whose moral beliefs? The majority, as determined by polls? If that is your criteria, then slavery would have been greatly delayed in being abolished and torture would be practiced routinely today.

The law is about MINIMUM standards of conduct by society. A minimum wage LAW has ZERO to do with one's moral obligations. I think we should have a minimum guaranteed INCOME, but that's just my morality talking. Laws, being laws, must be spelled out in what they do and/or don't cover.

I have a LEGAL obligation to pay taxes, which support things I have a MORAL objection to. How do I resolve that quandary? Do I go to prison for refusing to pay taxes or do I expend time and effort to nullify government programs/actions I find repugnant to my morality. Which if those choices is the moral one? Who decides whether I have made the correct moral choice?

The answer to that question is: I do. I decide how I will resolve moral dilemmas that arise from conflicts between the law and my personal convictions. Thus, I may view it as moral and proper to pay minimum wage for all tasks, or more than minimum for some tasks, or below minimum for others as long as I do not violate the written law. Each person has to decide on how the comply with their moral obligations, but they do not get to decide how to comply with the law.

If I want to pay a person not covered by the law twice the minimum, I legally may. If I wish to pay an uncovered person half that, I legally may. My moral imperative outside legal compliance is my affair, no one elses.

If you disapprove the idea that teen babysitters are not covered by the law, then you are free to try and get the law changed, and if you succeed, force everyone to pay teen babysitters the minimum wage.

But you don't get to be the final arbiter of morality for anyone but yourself.

The point of your question was to show some people as hypocritical, so as to discredit them and further your own viewpoint. Thus, you mixed venues of discussion, putting morality and the law on equal footing. Unfortunately, in the real world these two venues only roughly intersect. We can discuss what is legal and what is moral, and we will wind up with a lot more disagreement over the latter, than the former.

[trumad]

116. That was a class A takedown...

Excellent Mr. Mace.

[Kelvin Mace]

119. Thank you

I wish the law and morality intersected more, but that comes back to our problem of "whose morality".

[CreekDog]

85. upset you didn't get credit for his OP?

did you help think of it? that wouldn't be so far-fetched, so if that's the case, by all means, we'll give you credit too, plenty of credit for lame posts to go around.

[snooper2]

5. Nah, maybe a $20 for the night and all the free beer they want

LOL

[LanternWaste]

10. Occupations such as babysitting are not subject to the minimum wage law

Occupations such as babysitting are not subject to the minimum wage law (source: US Dept of Labor).
Regardless, the national average of rate of pay for babysitters ($13.44) is yet higher than current minimum wage.



(insert another "so you must then think X rather than Y" fallacy in space provided below)

[uppityperson]

13. What do you pay non-teen babysitters? Why should you pay less to someone guarding your children's

lives less than someone who cuts your lawn?

[yeoman6987]

32. I pay 65 dollars a month to cut my lawn

4 times a month in Spring Summer
1-2 times a month in fall/winter

1 1/2 acres


Both parties happy

[WinkyDink]

56. You're lucky. My 1/3 acre costs $160/month.

[REP]

99. I often wish my yard were that small

I have an acre that I'm currently putting up a new fence on. It was $2K just to get it ready for the job.

[WinkyDink]

111. Pros and cons! I've thought about fencing, but I'm too nosy! I like my neighbors' flowers!

[REP]

115. My chickens LOVE the neighbors' flowers ... the neighbors are divided on the chickens

One of my neighbors really likes it when the chickens come up to visit. A couple others don't like it as much since their yards are beautifully planted, so to avoid being those neighbors and to allow the birds more time out of Chicken Jail, I'm putting in a new fence. So obviously, the fence is old and horrible, but it's something I was really hoping to put off even longer! 😄

[demmiblue]

75. Yep.

Caregivers of children and the elderly are paid shit wages. As a nation, out priorities really suck.

[killbotfactory]

15. Indeed. There is nothing worse on this Earth than a teenager with a small amount of money. nt

[Scootaloo]

70. "It's more than I made at their age!"

"Of course, back then a household could be sustained off a single adult's income, cost of living was much lower, and career progression in meaningful jobs was a reality... But still!"

[B Calm]

16. My son is paying over $800.00 per month for daycare for one kid.

[stevenleser]

51. Try $2650.

[Starry Messenger]

18. I couldn't afford to have children.

[Press Virginia]

19. We pay $8 for the night and you can have 2 popsicles from the freezer

take it or leave it

[Press Virginia]

40. It was good enough for highly skilled attorney Lionel Hutz

[yeoman6987]

43. Lol.

[saturnsring]

47. here's you r baby siitter

[Scootaloo]

38. You must love taking your kids places

[Press Virginia]

42. or just like quoting Homer Simpson

[Kelvin Mace]

26. Sure. Why not?

[yeoman6987]

27. I pay 10 dollars an hour

[OregonBlue]

35. Most of the teens around here charge $8-10 an hour but I live in a low income area.

I never thought about it, whether it was minimum wage. Most of the kids that have babysat for my grandkids live around here and know them and they just charge what they charge.

[Iggo]

39. I would if it was the minimum wage.

Because I'm not that kind of asshole.

[Rex]

49. Where is the proof that it would be an economic disaster with the MW at $15?

This Chicken Little dance by a select few is very amusing.

[stevenleser]

50. Going rate around here is $20 an hour. I'm happy for them. But...

[Dr. Xavier]

57. You're too young to vote...

if I'm not mistaken, fed law re: minimum wage law specifically addresses teenagers, who are still dependents. And no they are not covered by the minimum wage law. Its been awhile since I read it but that seems to me to be the case.

[aquamarina]

59. If the kids are taking home $15 an hour in cash

then they are actually making more than the $15 an hour minimum wage because no taxes/Social Security/Medicare are being withheld. My guess that net pay on a $15 an hour minimum wage is more like $10 an hour. Just saying...

[nichomachus]

60. I thought babysitters were extinct

At least that's the impression I got from people bringing colicky infants and hyperactive toddlers into fine-dining restaurants, movies, concerts, and sporting events.

[haele]

61. San Diego, the going rate for a teen is $20 an hour. That's for a teen you can trust.

Typical babysitter goes home with $50 - $80 a night.

$100 is not unheard of, and ten years ago, the kidlet would get that when she babysat back in the day for one of the neighbors who had 2 kids for her to watch when they wanted to go out for a dinner and a show - 5 - 6 hours worth of "sitting".
And she was considered cheap.

They've got a "babysitter's" curriculum that includes important subjects like basic child development and child care for multiple kids, first aid and emergency reactions, legal responsibilities and boundaries (including "don't invite a friend over or broadcast where you are on TwitFaceGramSpaceChat&quot , basic Home Ec (how to cook dinner if that's part of the job, clean up afterwards, etc..) in the high schools as part of the health classes the kids are required to take, and the students who go through that half semester segment get a certificate indicating they've gone through the training.
Now, if you just want to hire a neighbor kid, or a friend or co-worker's kid - well, in the neighborhoods I've lived in, you take your chances. Kids like to have other kids around, and once there's one friend that comes over, there's a friend of a friend that drops by because they're bored and saw on Facebook that "I'm keeping Sheri company while she's babysitting her neighbor's kids", and then you never know how many kids are at your house and end up finding things (and food) missing - or you get burgled a week later.

Kidlet, who lives in a more rural "small town" area of the county, says even there, it's $20 an hour flat rate or $10 per kid for over two in a household, and you have to provide a meal and pay a level of difficulty differential if you have a child that requires special handling. They wanted to go out and found out it was much cheaper driving the 11 miles and having Grandy and Da'Ma watch grandbabies for the amount of time they were going to be out.

So, you can get a reliable teen (with references) whoses certified and pay him or her the going rate - making the whole situation a business exchange, or you can hope you can get a relative or friend's kid on a casual "here's $20 to entertain the toddler for a three/four hours" that won't let "friends" come over and case out your home because you were a cheapskate.

Kids now-a-days know what they're supposed to be paid. And I used to get $2 an hour sitting for a neighbor on weekends back in 1972 - 1975 ($5 on school nights), so even I would think $15 an hour is pretty much lowballing a modern sitter.

Even pet sitters get $20 an hour.

Haele

[mnhtnbb]

79. I used to get $.50/hour sitting for kids in 1965 in north San Diego county.

One night I was sitting two young kids--baths and bed by 8 PM--and I felt responsible to stay awake.
These people had no TV. I had brought a book--and I was done with my book by 11:30 PM. At midnight
they still weren't home and next thing I knew it was 2:30 am and their phone was ringing.
It was my parents wanting to know what was going on. I tried calling the number they
had left me and no one answered. About 20 minutes later they rolled in. "Oh, sorry, it
was such a fun party we lost track of the time."

Years later I realized they must have been out swinging with some other couple(s).
I never did go back to babysit for them again (I was 14). And I went home with less than $5.00.

[angstlessk]

64. When I babysat I got $1.00 per hour

[Warren Stupidity]

81. And gas was 0.25 gallon.

So somewhere around 12-16 would be about right.

[angstlessk]

82. Yes it was..

[CreekDog]

88. well thanks for sharing, that sure was relevant

[angstlessk]

90. Hey I was twelve I am not twelve now

[LostOne4Ever]

67. Don't have kids, but I would definitely pay them the minimum wage if raised that high. nt

[pnwmom]

68. When I was a kid, teen babysitters got a third to a half of minimum wage.

So I was surprised to learn that nowadays in my daughter's city they're getting $20 an hour.

I guess it's a seller's market these days, and young women have plenty of other things to do.

[ReasonableToo]

69. Combo of "work" and "on call"

When I babysat many years ago we did not get minimum wage. Babysitting is a bit different than most jobs in that you might "work" for two hours with the kids and then you'd watch TV, work on homework or read in their house for a few hours while the kids slept.

[renate]

71. when I was a babysitter, a LONG time ago, my pay was 1/3 of minimum wage

And for one family that was for four kids, although for most of my families it was just two. One family gave me twice the going rate for just their one kid, which was beyond awesome, and we are still friends, actually

I'm glad that babysitters are getting $10 or $15 an hour these days, but damn. I feel really ripped off!

[CreekDog]

89. when the minimum wage was worth more than it is now

[taught_me_patience]

72. $15/hr for shit labor. The good ones will cost $20

It'll damn bankrupt new parents. I'm glad my kids will be old enough to not need a babysitter when this lunacy will hit.

[demmiblue]

73. $10-$15 seems to be the going rate in my area (depends on the number of children). n/t

[Butterbean]

74. My sitters are few and have to be specially trained (special needs).

I use one teen, but she has worked at camps and with special needs kids for 3 years and has personally worked with my child so I trust her. For college students/undergrads/teens I pay $15/hr.. For college grads/teachers/people with master's degrees (yes, I've had people like that volunteer to babysit), I pay $20/hr..

[mnhtnbb]

76. I haven't needed babysitters for a long time, but I used to pay $10/hr

to all the babysitters (usually college girls, but occasionally high school girls/boys)
in Missouri and Nebraska from 1988-2000.

I know I paid way more than the going rate in both the towns where we lived.
But I figured my kids were worth it, and I expected the sitters to do more
than just watch TV or talk on the phone with boyfriends. They actually engaged
the kids: played with them and cooked for them.

Those last couple of years, I didn't use babysitters much because the oldest
was almost 4 years older than the youngest and usually responsible enough
to be safe and stay out of mischief if it was just for a movie/date night.
If we were going out of town, I always had a college girl stay just to
make sure they ate properly, got to school/lessons, etc. and didn't kill each other (2 boys) while we were
gone, but I always told the oldest that the babysitter was there for the youngest.

[Bradical79]

78. Seems kind of low -nt

[jello]

91. petsitters, too

I pay my petsitters $15 to $20 per visit...depending on how long they stay each visit. So, two visits a day for my cat while I am away is $35 for 45 minutes. And they are worth every penny I pay them, plus they get a tip on top of that.

[Orrex]

92. Wouldn't such a babysitter be considered an independent contractor?

Minimum wage doesn't apply.

[Major Nikon]

93. They are specifically exempted. This entire thread is ridiculous to begin with

29 CFR 552.104

[ileus]

94. No....

Good news is my kids no longer require a baby sitter.


It's been 3 years since we employed a sitter.

[So Far From Heaven]

95. Why the hell not?

This is a really dumb gotcha post, but I repeat:

Why Not?

If you don't already pay this much, then shame on you.

[OhioBlue]

97. Seriously? Shame on people that don't pay more

for babysitting than they might earn as an hourly wage? Besides that, it is a contracted service between the parent and babysitter. The babysitter is not an employee. If a teenage girl wants the opportunity to say yes or no, depending on how it fits their schedule to earn some extra money that is between consenting parties. We don't need to make this more difficult than it is.

[OhioBlue]

96. No, that is ridiculous for my area and situation.

First of all, they are not my employee. I have one child. I use two forms of childcare. During the school year, we use latchkey sporadically as needed. It is $3 per hour per child. The provider has at least 10 children in the afternoon which is when we use it the most. So, they are making at least $30 per hour. (There is minimal overhead) During the summer, I have a friend who has teenage daughters. I pay $20 per day to drop him off at their house. I don't dictate what types of activities they do, which daughter is charged with his care (they're both very good and responsible girls) They are free to babysit additional children. This situation has worked well for all of us. I know my child is being well cared for by people I trust, my friend's daughters learn some responsibility while making some summer money. They enjoy having him there and he loves the family. I have 2 jobs. One is commission based, the other pays $9 per hour. There is no way I could afford to pay someone $15 per hour for contracted childcare services.

If I hired someone to come to my home on a daily basis, and dictated what types of activities they should be doing, charged them with some light house work and disallowed them to babysit additional children, I might see if differently in regards to a minimum wage.

[REP]

98. In the 1980s, when I was a teen, I got $10/hr to babysit

That was not the going rate, but I had a real job and it wasn't worth my time otherwise. I had some very reliable clients though.

[JVS]

100. Forget teens, regular daycare workers don't make that much.

[CoffeeCat]

102. When our kids were little (a long time ago!)

We paid babysitters that much.

We had amazing, trustworthy teenagers.

Many teenagers around here take summer nanny jobs for parents in the area. They usually make $500-$600 per week for hanging out with the kids at the pool.

[Deadshot]

103. Anyone who supports raising the minimum wage while advocating not paying teens $15/hour to babysit

is being a hypocrite.

Simple as that.

[Major Nikon]

112. Except it's not that simple

The point being those are actually two different issues. Advocating for higher minimum wage means advocating to change the portion of the FLSA governing minimum wages. The FLSA already specifically exempts babysitters who work on a casual basis along with other types of workers. So people who are petitioning their elected representatives to change the minimum wage floor provision of the FLSA aren't necessarily also petitioning them to remove the babysitter exclusion. Likewise those who feel babysitters who work on a casual basis aren't being fairly compensated are free to petition their elected representatives to remove that specific exemption.

The reason for the exclusion in the law is pretty simple. Someone who works as a casual babysitter probably isn't going to be trying to support themselves with that income. You can also get drop off daycare at a licensed commercial facility for less than the minimum wage hourly rate. So forcing people to pay the neighbor's teenager to watch your child minimum wage would needlessly price them out of the market.

[Kittycat]

104. Going rate is $10-12/hr here. I pay $15

But I hire college age, background or family history with special needs. CPR training required.

[The Straight Story]

106. Do they pay for their insurance, workers comp, paid lunch etc as well?

Do they let the babysitters just leave the kids at home and go out for lunch?? Why not? I guess it means they are against others having lunch breaks as well.

Oh, and heck, maybe they should be allowed to work from home and just monitor a cam - you know, to save on gas and save the environment.

Or maybe they are just hypocrites because they have kids and that harms the environment - so they can't advocate for clean air. Right?????

[Nye Bevan]

114. "Only companies give out 1099 tax forms".

Generally speaking, because babysitting is a personal service rather than a business expense, you do not have to give your babysitter a 1099 tax form. Only companies give out 1099 tax forms for services rendered in the course of trade or business. There are exceptions, of course. If someone provides babysitting services as a contractor for a business, then the business must give that person a 1099 form detailing the income she received if she made more than $600 in a single year.
A babysitter is technically determined to be a self-employed individual when it comes to taxes. Your babysitter is responsible for reporting her income to the IRS, but unless you are a business entity, you have no responsibility to document your payment for the IRS, no matter how much she charges for her services.

http://thelawdictionary.org/article/do-we-need-to-give-our-babysitter-a-1099-tax-form/

[aikoaiko]

117. Local groundparents = no paid babysitters

And I am very grateful.