General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe (Usual) Stench From Wisconsin
We've seen this before, election after election, the familiar "Red Shift." And it's the Exit Polls that are always "off," because the Votecounts must always be "on." Except that the Votecounts are secret and in the full control of outfits, with strong right-wing affiliations, like Dominion Voting and Command Central. Votes counted by partisans in complete secret--is this sane?
Today massive robocalls were reported to have been placed to targeted Barrett supporters, telling them they didn't have to vote if they had signed the recall petition, and others that they couldn't vote if they hadn't voted in 2010. An obvious question: is there a bright ethical line between making (whoever actually made them) targeted robocalls telling your opponents' supporters they don't have to vote if they signed the recall petition versus setting the zero-counters on a bunch of memory cards to, say, +50 (for Walker) and -50 (for Barrett) so at the end of the day the election admin sees a "clean" election and you've shifted 100 votes per precinct? Do you believe that operators who have clearly not blanched at doing the first would for some reason blanch at doing the second--much neater and more efficacious as it is?
And if you're thinking "well the pre-election polls predicted a Walker win," you should know that the methodology for all of those polls, even the ones run by left-leaning outfits, was the Likely Voter Cutoff Model (see attached pdf), which disproportionately eliminates Democratic voters (students, renters, poor, minority) from the sample and so skews it conveniently anywhere from 5% to 10% to the right (the pollsters all would have been out of business by now if they had kept using a sound methodology and getting competitive elections wrong with it).
This election was dubbed "the second most important election of 2012;" it will "foretell" November just as the Massachusetts Special Senate Election (Coakley-Brown) "foretold" November 2010. And there was a massive red shift and even more than the usual indicators that it was rigged. Can anyone live with that, just give it a pass, and sleep tonight? Is it that, as Dylan Thomas once wrote, "After the first death, there is no other?"
--Jonathan Simon
http://electiondefensealliance.org/WisconsinRecall
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)As I see it, the problem was the disconnect between a righteous Progressive backlash and a pretty Moderate campaign.
We lost, not because people felt Walker was right, but because people thought recall was wrong.
Robocalls weren't responsible for that. Really they weren't.
The problem is the raisone d'etre for the recall got lost along the way... I suspect that happened when those wanting recall turned to a rather moderate democratic party of Wisconsin.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)If that were the case it wouldn't have happened. I'm seeing this all over the place suddenly. But it was amazingly absent over the past year and a half. Over one million people signed the petition to recall Walker, despite the efforts by the Kock Brothers to stop it.
He was recalled because of his policies against the working class. And I never noticed that anyone who supported it, here and elsewhere were under the impression that it was for anything other than that. So now, suddenly, this talking point is everywhere. Why did we not hear this until today?
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)My mistake. That meme was at work here. Apparently far more effectively than I or the Dem leaders realized.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)until today. In fact Wisc became an International story and no one over the course of all these months stated that a majority of people in Wisc did not want a recall. The opposite, in fact. There was the huge thrill, eg, when the Police Unions joined the protesters, not to mention all the other unions.
However, DUer HangOnKids tells me that the media has been spreading this meme so that would explain it. No doubt they all got their memos. I don't get news from the MSM, I gave up on them a long time ago so that explains why I would not have heard it today.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)It is a meaningless BS trite meme, and they got people to spout the point. And yes people on DU are buying this as the reason for the loss. Of course you are very astute Sabrina in noticing that this RW meme is a recent introduction, it is the reason of the day for justification of the steal. Clever bastards tapping into the TV crowd. Some people here watch way too much of that shit.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)once or twice on msnbc.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)being repeated here?? That explains it, thank you!
It pays not to watch the MSM I guess because today is the first time I saw this in over one and a half years. And I wondered where it came from. No doubt the Koch Bros sent them all their memos
Thank you HangOnKids, now I get it.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)"the recall is dividing us...I don't feel comfortable with the recall...the recall is costing us money" FORGET the issues and focus on the bullshit. It is what Re-pukes live for. It is sad that people fall for this shit. I recoil at the thought of watching MSM but I understand its power.
HomerRamone
(1,112 posts)It said that if they were willing to cheat in that way, why not by rigging the machines? Why are computerized elections ALWAYS so much more in favor of Republicans than the exit polls?
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)I also only heard about it today.
Hmmm.....
And also, I have read here, that it is the fault of the person receiving and believing the robocalls with the message along the line of 'you don't have to vote if you signed the recall petition'.
Really? I live with someone elderly, and could see him hearing that and being confused. Ditto someone who is not a native English speaker (I work with some of them).
What straws are we grasping at here?
We Want Peace
(205 posts)n/t