Why is it easier to blame Obama for the 'loss' then to believe that they stole the election?

[We Want Peace]

Obama did jack shit when it came to supporting the Wisconsin revolution, they didn't need him or his support.

There seems to be a concerted effort, articles already written, to manufacture the idea that Walker won and it is all Obama's fault.

Anyone else notice how organized the effort is for us to just accept this and blame Obama?


We have absolutely no way of verifying this election.

Diebold counts the votes and as Stalin told us 'it's not who votes that matter, it's who counts the votes'

[Indydem]

1. DIEBOLD DOES NOT COUNT WISCONSIN VOTES.

I've told you this in other threads.

Many ballots are HAND COUNTED.

[snacker]

7. Our llittle county just got "free" voting machines this year...

no hand counting here. I don't know of any counties that hand count.

[Indydem]

9. Google

http://wcmcoop.com/members/wi-counties-and-municipalities-that-employ-hand-counted-paper-ballots-touchscreen-system/

[snacker]

28. You can request a hand-counted paper ballot in those municipalities,

but very few people know that they have that option. My county is not one of them.

[We Want Peace]

10. bull fucking shit

all ballots are counted by diebold accuvotes and put through a central tabulator

no ballots are counted by hand unless we demand a hand recount, a regular recount would be just putting the ballots through the same machines.

[Indydem]

22. NO, YOU ARE WRONG.

http://wcmcoop.com/members/wi-counties-and-municipalities-that-employ-hand-counted-paper-ballots-touchscreen-system/

ONLY 4 COUNTIES USE ACCUVOTE

Calumet, Juneau, Waupaca, and Waushara

Did they engineer a victory of 200k votes in 4 counties? That's AMAZING.

Oh, and by the way, accuvote isn't made by diebold any longer and hasn't been for 2 years, but just keep blaming the machines and the paper ballots and the conspiracies.

[proverbialwisdom]

26. Not my field, but have you seen this?

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9302

By Brad Friedman on 5/14/2012 6:51pm  

Paper Ballot Op-Scan Systems in FL, WI, NY, OH Confirmed to Overheat, Mistally 70% of Votes

Similar systems used by millions of voters in majority of states also found to have failed as 2012 Presidential election looms...
New paper ballot optical-scan computer tabulator systems used to tally millions of votes in New York --- as well as "swing states" such as Florida, Ohio and Wisconsin --- do not tally votes correctly. That stunning admission comes courtesy of a new report released by the private company which manufactures, sells, services and programs the systems which are now believed to have mistallied tens of thousands of ballots in New York in 2010.

The votes of more than ten million voters could be affected by a newly revealed failure in the voting systems set for use in those four states in this year's Presidential election, and in more than 50 different jurisdictions in Wisconsin during next month's historic recall elections.

Election Systems & Software, Inc. (ES&S), the largest e-voting machine company in the U.S. and the maker of the paper ballot op-scan tally systems in question, have confirmed that their systems may overheat when used over several hours (for example, during an election!), and that they then may mistally and/or incorrectly discard anywhere from 30% to 70% of votes scanned by the machines.

The only way to know that a hand-marked paper ballot had been mistallied by the system would be to examine the ballots by hand to assure that the computer had read and recorded the voters' selections correctly.

The New York Daily News editorial board --- which has been persistently forcing the issue on state Election Officials who initially ignored massive mistallies discovered in the South Bronx during the state's 2010 election --- reports on ES&S' confirmation of the latest failure in a story headlined "We told you so: Newfangled voting machine screwed up". Their article today begins this way...

You know those new electronic vote-scanning machines that are supposed to be foolproof in reading and counting every ballot in an election? Well, they're anything but foolproof.

In fact, they can screw up voter tallies to a fare-thee-well even after technicians carefully calibrate and test them.

So state and city election officials have discovered, along with the machine's manufacturer, thanks to insistent prodding by this page.

Earlier this year, the newspaper discovered --- through public records requests for the paper ballots in a single precinct in the South Bronx --- that the ES&S model DS200 op-scan system had failed to count some 70% of paper ballots correctly in the 2010 primary election. In that November's general election, some 54% of the ballots were mistallied at the same precinct.

The result, as confirmed by ES&S, tens of thousands of perfectly valid votes may have gone uncounted, while thousands of "phantom votes" in races that voters hadn't intended to vote in at all were counted as valid votes.

The Daily News characterizes the initial response by election officials in NY, after the paper had discovered the massive failures, as "a statement of severe psychological denial."

[Indydem]

30. Only 2 counties use those machines and a few towns in another.

It's not the machine of choice.

Again, many ballots are hand counted.

[We Want Peace]

40. bullshit- where is your evidence of that?

n/t

[Indydem]

57. Here is the link - For the THIRD TIME.

Read a little instead of just running around shouting "bullshit" at everything.

http://wcmcoop.com/members/wi-counties-and-municipalities-that-employ-hand-counted-paper-ballots-touchscreen-system/

[We Want Peace]

64. they are all sent through a central tabulator- which part of this are you not understanding?

Wisconsin votes on mostly paper ballots --- are tabulated by computer optical-scan systems like the ones in Palm Beach County, FL which, in March of this year, had named several losing candidates to be the "winners". And like the ones in New York City which, in 2010, managed to toss out thousands of valid votes, including as many as 70% in one South Bronx precinct. And like the ones in Oakland County, Michigan where officials found the same machines failed to count the same ballots the same way twice in 2008. And like the ones in Leon County, FL which, in 2005, were hacked to entirely flip the results of a mock election.

In Palm Beach County, FL the failure was discovered during a state mandated post-election spot-check of 2% of the paper ballots. In New York City, it took nearly two years before the failures were discovered after the New York Daily News was able to examine the paper ballots via a public records request. In Oakland County, MI, election officials were lucky enough to discover the failure during pre-election testing. And in Leon County, FL, the hacker --- a computer security expert --- revealed the op-scan system flaw he exploited to flip the results of the election in an Emmy-nominated HBO documentary.

[Indydem]

66. You've made up your mind.

And your own facts.

Providing you links to a county by county breakdown of what machines are being used and how votes are being tabulated isn't proving to you that you are wrong.

Also, nice job STEALING AND RIPPING OFF Brad Blog with no attribution.

[uponit7771]

59. LOFL!! Thx for the clarity of your position

[goclark]

77. So this is not happening?

A quote from link below.....

"New paper ballot optical-scan computer tabulator systems used to tally millions of votes in New York — as well as “swing states” such as Florida, Ohio and Wisconsin — do not tally votes correctly. That stunning admission comes courtesy of a new report released by the private company which manufactures, sells, services and programs the systems which are now believed to have mistallied tens of thousands of ballots in New York in 2010."


http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012/05/15/voting-machines-in-fl-wi-ny-oh-overheat-mistally-30-70-of-votes

[Indydem]

78. No, It's not.

1. That machine is not made by Diebold.

2. Those machines are used in only 2 counties, and a few municipalities in a third.

This is NOT a widespread issue,and again, as I have linked to 4 times now, many counties hand count ballots in addition to using non-Diebold /es&s machines.

[elleng]

2. Citizens United stole the election,

and this one won't be the last.

[dmallind]

15. The money difference was due to a 1987 law unrelated to CU

that limits candidates for governor to 10k max but allows unlimited donations to incumbents facing recall.

[elleng]

24. Maybe.

The principle is that $$$ did it, and will continue to do so, nation-wide.

[KharmaTrain]

62. They Didn't Steal It...

...they bought it and will buy many more as long as people can be convinced to vote against their own long term interests for minimal short-term gain...

[elleng]

67. Correct,

and people not really 'convinced,' but conned, due to the nature of the propaganda. And of course we're likely to feel this for a LOOOONG time due also to damage to education, in SO many states; people have and will have little ability even to understand the issues and how the system works.

[KharmaTrain]

71. Sadly We See It Here...

While it makes DU fun there are many who are consumed by the talking heads on their teevee with little understanding of how government and business work. People become instant experts on the "flavor of the day"...ready to pass judgement with an agenda already in mind. Obviously we see this in massive doses on the right which perpetuates the divides within this country that are being used to marginalize all but the richest and most powerful. Last night's loss shines a light on some major problems Democrats have to confront or face many more nights like this to come.

Cheers...

[polichick]

3. imo there's no reason to hold elections until we have verifiable voting...

Why haven't Dem leaders fought for a true democratic system after what happened in 2000 and 2004?

[TheWraith]

6. Wisconsin votes on paper ballots. nt

[snacker]

13. paper ballots that are counted by voting machines..

that can easily be programmed. Our little county just got "free" voting machines this year as did many other counties. No votes are hand counted in my county, not even absentee ballots. We may have paper ballots, but voting machines can easily be programmed and manipulated.

[We Want Peace]

41. new free voting machines- what a coincidence just in time for this election...

n/t

[polichick]

68. No kidding - wonder if anyone is looking into this "coincidence."

[polichick]

14. Some of which are counted - or not - by Republican operatives.

[We Want Peace]

16. and it is counted by machines that are easily manipulated

and put through a central tabulator that can be altered in 5 minutes

[TBF]

17. That is wrong - there is an option to vote on paper ballots but most vote on machines.

http://wcmcoop.com/members/nearly-a-half-million-registered-voters-in-wisconsin-have-an-option-to-vote-on-hand-marked-hand-counted-paper-ballots-but/

[goclark]

53. good question ~

I believe we ( me included) have our heads in the sand because we still want to believe this is the United States of America....

No it is not anymore, this country has been taken over by certain evil doers in the 1 % club. They have no heartand they have no soul.

We keep beliving they will understand our " Land That We Love " message about fairness and waving the flag..

At this very moment they are drinking and clicking glasses because they know they will stay on this same road because it WORKED tonight!.

STOP THE SUPPRESSION! STOP THE SUPPRESSION and Dirty Tricks!

[polichick]

70. The sooner we all get that this isn't the imaginary land we love, the better!

[TheWraith]

4. Why is it easier to believe in a massive conspiracy than simply that we lost?

Which is simpler: that somebody magically conjured up 200,000 paper ballots and voters, or that a weak candidate, being massively outspent, and the already poor record of recall elections resulted in a loss?

[polichick]

19. After 2000 and 2004 you have to be pretty naive to think votes are counted...

...accurately in this country.

I ask again, why haven't our "leaders" fought for a verifiable system? Wonder why they wouldn't want one.

[We Want Peace]

25. you have to be pretty naive to think votes are counted accurately in this country

Either our 'leaders' are naive morons, or they are all part of the dog and pony show.

[polichick]

27. More and more, I think they're part of the show...

...scary as that thought may be.

Really, why haven't they been screaming for a better system every day since 2000?

My guess is this system works for them.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

20. It might have something to do with the massive turnout.

[RZM]

36. Conservatives can turn out too. Just because DU hasn't been exposed to the conservative line here

Doesn't mean it wasn't having an effect.

It's important to not 'other' the opponent too much. They are people just like you. They are perfectly capable of dragging their asses to the polling place, just like you are.

This is one of the biggest problems with DU's reduction of conservatives to absurd caricatures of human beings. They are real people. They are just like you and me. When they have a political impulse, they act on it, just like you and I do.

If you reduce the opposition to absurdity, then you're more likely to observe election results as absurd. But if you view them the right way, you're more likely to see results the right way too.

[We Want Peace]

37. Republicans had to bring in out of state felons to attempt to get signatures for a recall

why would this be if they have so damn much support?

[Throd]

51. That was perfectly concise.

Dehumanizing your opponents has many ways of coming back to haunt you.

[RZM]

52. Thanks

There are many reasons why dehumanizing the opposition is wrong.

But one of the biggest is that it gives one an inaccurate view of the situation. That alone should be reason not to do it.

[Shrek]

56. Excellent insight and a very fine post

Thank you.

[We Want Peace]

42. pretty quick with that spin

n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

5. How about neither

How about people are just stupid?

[TheWraith]

8. Pretty much, yeah. nt

[teddy51]

18. That's exactly the problem. The only time they will wake up is when it personally

affects them.

[dmallind]

11. Why is it easier to believe either than that dumbfuck voters are the majority?

[We Want Peace]

43. because 'dumbfuck voters' is all part of the manufactured spin

people were going door to door finding a very small percentage voting for Walker. no one is THAT stupid!

[Riftaxe]

12. I agree, a tweet is a hell of

a lot of work for an active politician....

[tritsofme]

21. Both are pretty stupid ideas.

This was a state election, not about the president or November. The Democratic candidate lost and conceded. No conspiracy.

[We Want Peace]

44. why are our votes counted in a way that cannot be verified?

why are the recounts fixed?

Nothing to see here, 'just trust them'

[tritsofme]

49. The results were consistent with the public opinion polls out there

over the past weeks. Unfortunate result, but not a surprise to those paying attention.

[goclark]

74. All of the exit polls are fair and balanced?

don't think so ~

[tritsofme]

75. I don't know what your post means.

[undeterred]

23. We have a lot of morons in Wisconsin.

More than half our voters, actually.

Got to buy some ads convincing them to stay home on election day.

[We Want Peace]

46. calling Americans stupid is all part of the manufactured consent

Have you talked to any of these really stupid people in Wisconsin?

The folks that were going door to door were finding a very small percentage who supported Walker.

Why did they have to pay people to put their signs on the lawn?

[cali]

60. the sum of the American electorate is less than its parts

As a whole, it's pretty reactionary, persuadable and highly anti-intellectual.

And where is your link to your claim that:
The folks that were going door to door were finding a very small percentage who supported Walker?

Or are you just manufacturing that claim, dear?

[RZM]

29. If your first reaction to a loss is to immediately claim fraud without evidence

Then you are probably a sore loser.

Not everything is going to go your way. The world is a cold, hard, place. Deal with it.

[We Want Peace]

33. There should be absolutely no doubt that this is a fair election

In a Democracy where elections are essential, why do we have to 'just trust them'

After everything that has happened, how can anyone 'just trust them'

It is very simple to have verified voting. It is very simple to hand count ballots and post the numbers at the precinct.

I am not the one with the problem here, this Democracy has major problems!!

[Fire Walk With Me]

31. It is extremely easy to believe they've stolen this election.

However, I'm not sure Obama did his part to support and gather victory for members of his party. Unity and victory require participation from everyone, especially at this time.

[ManyShadesOf]

32. who said that?

oh, you did

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

34. Because the Obama Derangement Syndrome is difficult to cure.

[longship]

35. Why believe the facts when you can make up shit?

The election was stolen!!!! Set my hair on fire!!!!.

No, we lost an election. It wasn't close so it highly unlikely that it was, as some say, stolen.

It's all Obama's fault because he didn't travel to WI. Where's my lighter; my hair is still flammable?

Obama did not go to WI because all his advisors were telling him that the WI Dems are doing a helluva a job, but they'll still lose, and it won't be close. Big Dawg went as a surrogate.

Here's the deal. I am in awe of the WI Democratic party. They did things these past few weeks which I did not think we're possible.

Unfortunately, they learned a lesson tonight that many of us old troops already knew. GOTV sometimes works against you. Sometimes the electorate is going to vote against your wishes no matter how much you want it to be otherwise.

People here need to learn that lesson as well. Sometimes we lose. It hurts when that happens. But damnit! Leave your idiotic tin foil hats and your blame games out of the post mortem.

I am awed by what WI Dems did today. I cheer their efforts. Thank you WI Dems!

[We Want Peace]

47. why did Republicans bus in felons to gather signatures for their recall attempts?

Why did they have to pay people to put signs on their lawns?

Why did they send out robocalls last night lying to Wisconsin voters if they had popular support?

[cali]

61. link. reputable link, please

this sounds a lot like wingnut claims that dems were busing in folks from MI to vote for Walker.

Every time the pukes lose they do the same screech about election fraud too. you share that with them.

[gtar100]

38. It's all part of the ongoing campaign of propaganda from the repukes.

Seriously...they take every opportunity to disparage, regardless of truth or consequence.

They are sick, sick sick.

If we don't defeat fascism at the ballot box, I hope we all realize what becomes inevitable for our children and grandchildren.

[We Want Peace]

39. if we don't fight this right now

fascism has won, and I am totally disgusted.

[Dr Fate]

45. Obama's DOJ will not rest until stolen elections are investigated!

And if they do not, it will still not be Obama's fault- he was not even involved to begin with.

We need to stop blaming DEM party failures on DEM party leadership and take a long look at the man in the mirror.

[We Want Peace]

48. Dem 'leaders' have done nothing to expose our faulty election system

all part of the dog and pony show.

[Dr Fate]

50. Obama does not want to look like some conspiracy theorist.

If there was election fraud, Eric Holder would be throwing their asses in prison like the bad ass he is.

Plus, the Kochs promised they would create jobs wight the tax cuts Obama gave them-how was he supposed to know they were going to use those extra billions to go after liberals in elections?

No, this is all the fault of lazy voters and out-dated Union stuff.

[We Want Peace]

54. now we are expected to believe 36% of unions voted for Walker

Koch/Rove : "Eat shit and like it people!"

[piratefish08]

55. stole it?? they very openly bought it. thank you Citizens United.

[slackmaster]

58. There's a much simpler explanation that makes more sense to me

Walker won the election.

[SGMRTDARMY]

63. Why don't you try putting your money where your mouth is?

If you have proof of election fraud, then by all means, put it on the table instead of babbling about it.
We lost last night, get over it and lets move on to winning in Nov.
All your doing is sowing seeds of discord over something that, so far, you haven't proven.

[We Want Peace]

65. There is no evidence this was counted fairly, and the system is set up for fraud

"Wisconsin votes on mostly paper ballots --- are tabulated by computer optical-scan systems like the ones in Palm Beach County, FL which, in March of this year, had named several losing candidates to be the "winners". And like the ones in New York City which, in 2010, managed to toss out thousands of valid votes, including as many as 70% in one South Bronx precinct. And like the ones in Oakland County, Michigan where officials found the same machines failed to count the same ballots the same way twice in 2008. And like the ones in Leon County, FL which, in 2005, were hacked to entirely flip the results of a mock election.

In Palm Beach County, FL the failure was discovered during a state mandated post-election spot-check of 2% of the paper ballots. In New York City, it took nearly two years before the failures were discovered after the New York Daily News was able to examine the paper ballots via a public records request. In Oakland County, MI, election officials were lucky enough to discover the failure during pre-election testing. And in Leon County, FL, the hacker --- a computer security expert --- revealed the op-scan system flaw he exploited to flip the results of the election in an Emmy-nominated HBO documentary."

[Ellipsis]

69. .

[SGMRTDARMY]

72. And theres no evidence that it wasn't counted fairly

again your evidence of voter fraud is there is no evidence.

[goclark]

73. Interesting that some feel that you should prove it

Amazing!

You are not the " Prove It Person."

You presented us with a clip that I found to be in keeping with what has happened/will happen......

"it took nearly two years before the failures were discovered after the New York Daily News was able to examine the paper ballots via a public records request. In Oakland County, MI, election officials were lucky enough to discover the failure during pre-election testing. And in Leon County, FL, the hacker --- a computer security expert --- revealed the op-scan system flaw he exploited to flip the results of the election in an Emmy-nominated HBO documentary."

Sure would love to see the HBO documentary!

Who makes the machines?
Is there a Team of Fair and Balanced Computer Giants -- some Republicans, Some Democrats that make sure that there are no flaws and everything is "Fair and Balanced"

Did one of the Labor Union bosses sneak into the building in the middle of the night and decide that they would make sure that everything was A OK for the Democrats ---- bet that didn't happen.

What are the chances that the Machines are made by a firm that is owned by a Democrat? That one would be a real surprise. I would love to know if that is true. Correct me if I am wrong please.

Follow the RMoney

[goclark]

76. Here is a link .......

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012/05/15/voting-machines-in-fl-wi-ny-oh-overheat-mistally-30-70-of-votes/

[shadegrown dulse]

79. Hey, I can chew gum and walk simultaneously...

BOTH are fucked!