Let's talk about tariffs and protectionism

[white_wolf]

Trump has gotten some criticisms over his suggestion of implementing a tariff on goods made outside the U.S., but this is one of the only areas where I'm not completely opposed to one of his suggestions. A few years ago, I remember Thom Hartman suggesting tariffs as a solution to counter the effect of free trade agreements so they apparently have some support in liberal/progressive circles. I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but I thought it might be worth discussing in further detail in light of current events.

[Hoyt]

1. Not much support among economists or people who DON'T believe in Nationalism, America First,

screw the rest of the world because 90+% of Americans are the world's 1%ers. We live in a big world, time to start acting like we are not the anointed ones.

[RepubliCON-Watch]

2. I'm not opposed to some protectionism

I agree with Trump in that we are losing in trade deals, except his solutions would further get us into a global tailspin from a fiscal and environmental standpoint. However, stronger environmental regulations, preventing jobs from going overseas(while not giving in to proposing tax cuts for companies just because they stay here--let their profits reward that choice), right to a living wage protection, the right to unionise, are all things that are a MUST in any future trade deal, no matter what. Also, we could use some of that tariff money on rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure and paying our port workers a living wage.

[silvershadow]

3. IF they could ever get the balls to enforce the trade provisions we have, and IF

we could get a little bit real about them, a little protectionism isn't bad. I damn sure don't believe in the willy-nilly way in which NAFTA, CAFTA, and the TPP have been handled, and what it has meant for our country. We can all face it, the era of the US being the manufacturing economy it once was are gone. We gave it away. We are now something other. It was supposed to be a service economy I guess. Somehow the geniuses that got us into this think we all can afford maids and butlers and concierge services on a tanning salon salary- or something like that?

[bvar22]

4. Some things are worth protecting.

The ability of the American Worker to put food on the table for our children is one.

"Free Trade" was a scam from the git go.
The whole purpose was to:
*Drive down wages and benefits

*Bust Unions

*Avoid Environmental Protection Laws

*Avoid Worker Rights and Human Rights

*Enrich the already very RICH

It has been successful as designed, a race to the bottom for the peasant class of the World.


Capital will ALWAYS be able to out run Human Rights.
It takes Workers years, even decades to organize, petition our governments, and then have protective legislation actually passed and enforced.

Capital can move overnight. It takes only a single [Board Meeting to pack up and move to a more "Business Friendly" country with an easily bribed government or dictator.

[Recursion]

5. Tariffs are paid by consumers, not producers. A tax on overseas production would do something

A tariff just makes shirts more expensive to people, without keeping shirt-making jobs in the US

[joshcryer]

9. Yep, and American consumers wouldn't go for it.

I actually see Trump backing off of the tariff rhetoric once he wins the nomination. Because when was the last time we elected a pro-tariff President? Other than agriculture, of course. Agriculture is unique in its own ways.

[Recursion]

10. Ain't that the truth about ag

Agriculture is unique in its own ways

Hell, ag doesn't even have a Federal minimum wage at this point.

That's how different agriculture is.

[B Calm]

6. I'm for FAIR trade. If it costs a manufacturer $1.00 in labor cost to make a product here and

the company moves off shore where they can make the same product for 50 cents. Then by god there ought to be a fifty cent tariff if they want to sell it here!

[Cordy]

7. Clamp down on the imports

A big problem for capitalists is the belief that capitalism can compete with Socialism.

Capitalism worked great in America when it was more or less a closed economic system. We had factories serving Americans, plenty of jobs, good wages and benefits.

Then we started the Globalization of America. That is when the closed system was opened to compete with workers making .50 an hour, bail out after bailout, factory's leaving, outsourcing, down sizing, off shoring, reduction in force, and massive debt, etc. You can follow it, all the way back to at least when Clinton came into office, it just got progressively worse.

We need the closed box, or go to an economic system like socialism in order to compete.

Another item to eliminate is the stock market. The rich non-productive take the profits made a corporation by it's workers, and not a dime on the family table. Those profits are then offshored so American Banks cannot use that money for loans, business, college, cars, homes, etc. The only thing American about the stock market is the ripping off the workers wages and benefits.

If you don't want to eliminate it, then make a law that gives a percentage of the corporate profits to the workers that is equal to what stockholders rip off, above their wages.

[joshcryer]

8. If Trump wasn't a racist bigot, he'd lose on tariffs alone.

A discussion about tariffs would completely and utterly turn off the American voter. American consumerism relies strongly on low or non-existant tariffs.

That said he can't win the minority vote therefore is unelectable.

[pampango]

12. Tariffs and protectionism were popular under Coolidge and Hoover, not with FDR.

The health of the middle class under 1920's republicans? Not much of a priority. Historic levels of income inequality that, unfortunately, we seem to be trying to match today.

The tariffs of the era were pushed by corporations that wanted to protect their domestic markets from foreign competition. They got what they paid for from Harding, Coolidge and Hoover. Then along came FDR.

If it was not for the trading system that FDR and Truman set up during and after WWII, the US - and other countries - could easily and unilaterally go back to tariffs and protectionism that existed under republicans. FDR and Truman set up the new system precisely to keep that kind of unilateral action from happening.

If we want to go back-to-the-future of Coolidge/Hoover trade policy and away from what FDR/Truman hath wrought, let us at least recognize that this policy has been tried before.