Do Organic Growers Use ‘Hazmat’ Suits?

[HuckleB]

Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 02:46 PM - Edit history (2)

http://iowameetsmaui.com/2014/11/17/do-organic-growers-use-hazmat-suits/


"I came across this image the other day. A farmer spraying his field wearing a protective suit and face respirator. When I see this, I see a farmer keeping himself and those around him safe. When activists look at this, they seem to see a scary hazmat suit and chemical poisoning. The beauty of this photo, is that it was taken from a video about an organic cauliflower grower in California. This farmer is spraying a “natural soap spray”. Obviously, this spray poses some danger to the tractor operator, or he wouldn’t be using this Personal Protective Equipment (PPE). Compliments are in order to this business for instituting safe handling practices.

What constitutes a harmful substance? Well, just about everything on earth is harmful to us if not used properly, so knowing when to use PPE is important. The National Pesticide Information Center lists 4 signal words to look for on a label. Listed from least toxic to most toxic, these words are: Caution, Warning, Danger, and Danger/Poison. A quick glance through my own cupboard revealed household cleaners with three of these signal words. Here are examples of substances from each category and the PPE they require:

...

What we see in these examples is that a chemical with a signal word of “Warning”, that is labeled for organic production, requires far more Personal Protective Equipment than one with a signal word of Danger/Poison. This doesn’t mean that the Lorsban 4E is safer, just that it has different requirements in PPE for the applicator. Almost all farmers use pesticides, and it’s likely that they will at some point need some form of protective equipment – organic and conventional growers alike."


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Hazmat suit on GM fields: used by anti-GMO activists (not researchers) to spread fear

From:
http://debunkingdenialism.com/2013/08/25/decimating-the-flawed-beliefs-of-anti-gmo-activists/

"In July of 2011, anti-GMO activists dressed up in Hazmat suits destroyed fields trials of genetically modified wheat at CSIRO (the national science agency in Australia) facility in Canberra. They caused damage for around 300 000 USD and set back research at least a year. According to Jeremy Burdon, the industry plant chief, Hazmat suits are not worn by researchers working on GM field trials because there are no hazards there. Researchers working with the genetically modified wheat call the hazmat suits “theatrical” and a “publicity stunt, designed to mislead the public and spread unwarranted fear” (Bettles, 2011)."


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More on these deceitful memes:
http://christopherkeelty.com/this-is-my-beef-with-the-anti-gmo-folks/



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Once again we learn that scary memes are often FOS, especially when propagated by anti-GMO extremism.

[OkSustainAg]

1. I don't

spray any of my fruits and veggies. I have apples and pears. No waxes and poison here.

[HuckleB]

3. Internet claims are worthless, as are anecdotes.

when you produce enough per acre to feed the planet without more deforestation, write up your methods, and get it published.

[OkSustainAg]

5. I have shown

hundreds of people how to be more sustainable. In real life. I recently have started talking about it on the internet. I am not a writer. I am a farmer.

[HuckleB]

7. So your claims are not peer reviewed, nor replicated.

You're a marketer more than anything else.

[Sunlei]

8. 300 bushels of corn per acre, people could grow their own if zoning/neighborhood Ass. didn't ban it.

[HuckleB]

9. Another unsupported claim.

Lots of people have gardens. They're great. They're not very efficient in terms of production. Why respond with nothing but the usual meme claims?

[Sunlei]

11. front yard crops

[HuckleB]

13. My garden is in the front yard.

So what?

[Sunlei]

14. Thats not allowed, its a crime in most neighborhoods across America. Lawns only.

How much does your 'front yard garden' produce?

[HuckleB]

15. Too many tomatoes.

Enough sweet peppers to do some canning. A regular supply of cucumbers. Plenty of herbs. Shade keeps me limited, but those trees are needed.

[Sunlei]

16. that's pretty good for a front yard. If you had 50 tomato plants used an entire average front yard,

that would be more then enough for a year- for a family? And more to trade.

[HuckleB]

17. I only have six.

Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)

We give away at least half them, have plenty to eat fresh for three months, and then lots and lots of canning happens. Still, we would never come close to feeding ourselves. It's just for fun.

[Drahthaardogs]

57. I grow 30 tomato plants every year

San Marzano Redorta, Cuore di Bue, Romano Costaluto, and Liguria tomatoes. I can over 100 quarts and I use every quart throughout the summer. I also grow about thirty Jimmy Nardello peppers (there is no finer sweet pepper), and 50 Bacio di Satana peppers plants. As you likely guess, I am italian American.

[AngryAmish]

38. Too many rats in Chicago. I got 2 tomatoes last year from 3 plants.

About thirty buds.

People where there are no rats? How do you keep things from eating your tomatoes?

[Sunlei]

39. My dogs,Jack russell and another mix, rats & any ground varmints don't have a chance here.

My dogs aren't outside dogs but they go out frequently and that tends to have 'critters' stay away, move on.

My dogs catch (and kill) an occasional rat, I'm in Houston near lots of people. I haven't seen a raccoon or opossum in years.

[HuckleB]

43. Ah, yeah. It could be the cat that helps for us.

[HuckleB]

41. I don't have a problem with animals eating my tomatoes, so I can't help you.

I did grow some corn one year, but the squirrels took that for themselves. I haven't bothered again. Besides, when I get 8 ears for a buck at the same time I would be harvesting, there's not much point.

[Recursion]

79. Then more neighborhoods need to be like yours. As it is, either zoning or the HOA

prevent a troubling amount of Americans from growing any food for themselves.

[HuckleB]

81. Yeah, I'm lucky, I guess.

Where I live no one is going to get far telling others what to do with their yards.

[REP]

21. Most yards are far, far smaller than an acre

I can't imagine anyone wanting to have their entire lot planted wall-to-wall corn, especially on the usual 1/8 acre or smaller lot.

[HuckleB]

24. Are you really trying to ruin that fantasy?

This is part of how the anti-GMO movement sucks people in with "feel good" silliness like this.

[REP]

25. Sorry.

My lot is actually about an acre, but it's clay. If I filled it with corn, there'd be no place for the chickens to forage, and I'd have to truck in a few tons of topsoil ... but instead of my view of redwood forest and mountains, I could gaze out upon endless corn.

[HuckleB]

27. Well, I'm not cutting down my trees, either.

And who would have the time to tend to such fields in this world? Most people would not, I don't think.

[REP]

29. But if you took down your trees, razed your house

you could grow so much corn!

See my post down thread about how much it costs to "save 100s" with a garden. (I do can almost everything that can be canned in my yard, but luckily I have old, established plants that thrive on neglect.)

[HuckleB]

33. I'd have all kinds of corn, at the same time I can buy ears dirt cheap.

Sounds like a definite plan!

[Sunlei]

44. true, grow stuff that is expensive in the stores. I have raspberries, blackberries and table grapes.

just a couple of each growing on my fences and we get a lot of berries & many pounds of grapes. The grapes I was really surprised how well they did no care at all., 3 little plants and the next year they were huge and full of fruit.

[HuckleB]

45. Yeah, that's why I do lots of different "specialty" peppers, especially.

They can vary in output here, most summers are mild, but the last two have been very warm, and so things have been bountiful. Of course, I've also had to water much more frequently.

Truth be told, I prefer the cooler summers, but there advantages to the warmth, too.

[Sunlei]

40. your chickens would eat the corn, they love it :)

[Sunlei]

26. I realize yards are smaller but I want people to know even a small yard can produce enough.

A small bit of land can produce enough to save a family $100s at the grocery store.

And I think front "lawn"s are a horrible waste of useable space.

[REP]

28. That assumes a lot

The soil will allow planting of certain plants
Time and knowledge to tend and harvest plants
Time and knowledge to can excess production

To "save" that money, things must be purchased:
Seeds
Topsoil if soil is poor
Gardening tools
Shade cloth
Plant supports
Fertilizer
Insecticides
Fungicides
Canner (pressure canner for low-acid produce)
Canning rack
Cans
Lifter
Canning funnel
Etc

[Sunlei]

31. start small with 10 "hills" and a pack of seeds and one doesn't need any of that other stuff

(you need a shovel to turn a hill)

[Lancero]

59. Some of that list would be a one time thing though.

Dry out a bit of the harvest for seeds
.
Gardening tools don't need to be purchased each year. The same shovel, hoe, rake and tiller will last for years.

Shade cloth isn't that much of a necessity, though admittedly this would vary from place to place.

Most plant supports can be reused for years.

Canning equipment would be reusable as well. The jars themselves are reusable too, you'd just need to get new bands for them.
Even then though, dehydrating and freezing are both alternatives to canning.

[Major Nikon]

42. You wouldn't even need that much space

A small greenhouse with an aquaponics setup can support virtually all of the nutritional requirements for a family of 4. Some people are even doing it in basements and garages with artificial lighting.

[Major Nikon]

53. Is insecticidal soap or horticultural oil "poison" to anything besides insects?

Sustainability is certainly a laudable goal, but proclaiming that one must never spray anything in order to do so just doesn't make that much sense and neither does proclaiming all pesticides are "poison". Salt and caffeine are "poison" in the right dose and so is water for that matter.

[Buddyblazon]

70. Totally different if you're a farmer...

Integrated Pest Management is a must. Now they could be using all organic pesticides and fungicides. There are many. Neem to name one. It's still smart to wear a bunny suit. Spray goes everywhere and even if it's organic it can irritate the skin. Poison ivy is organic. Don't want it to touch your skin.

If your crop is healthy, organic treatments are great
as preventative. If your crop comes down with a malady it's difficult to beat on a grand scale with organics.

These are just the facts of farming. Knew a certified organic tomato farmer that spent years trying to beat Russet Mites. Finally decertified just so he could spray something that would cure the problem...or he would've lost his farm.

I think it's important people start to educate themselves more on pesticides/fungicides. Not all are going to give you cancer. And many, if used at the proper time, are gone from the plant by the time harvest comes around.

[HuckleB]

71. +1,000 ... 000 ... 000

[womanofthehills]

73. The organic raspberry farm I get my berries from here in NM

uses turkeys to eat the insects.

[HuckleB]

78. Yeah, and nothing else.

[AxionExcel]

2. Bwa ha ha. That OP screed has been so completely debunked.

Why do you waste our time with these Digital Stoning Parties aimed at clean food?

Such a waste of everyone's time. No point in coming back to this thread.

Please go eat your GMO-Chemical Hormone-injected rations quietly in the corner.

[HuckleB]

4. Yes, you are wasting our time.

You keep posting claims that are actually debunked daily.

"Clean food."

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/

[Major Nikon]

34. I'm sure OCA, NaturalNews, and Mercola all have the scoop on it

[HuckleB]

37. His/her favorite today: Henry Rowlands.

https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/glp-facts/henry-rowlands/

[Sunlei]

6. part of it is to keep from getting soaked & having to work outside dripping wet from head to toe

Especially when its cold outside, even if just your face uncovered the mist will run down to the tractor seat

[SidDithers]

10. They sure do...

Sid

[Recursion]

12. Some do; it helps with some of the fertilizers especially

?

[HuckleB]

18. 14 FACTS THE ORGANIC INDUSTRY DOESN’T WANT YOU TO KNOW

Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 01:36 PM - Edit history (1)

http://dontwastethecrumbs.com/2015/03/14-facts-the-organic-industry-doesnt-want-you-to-know/

"...

(1) Pesticides are allowed in organic production.

...

(2) Some “natural” chemicals used in organic farming are carcinogenic.

...

(3) Organic pesticides aren’t always as effective as synthetic, and may require more application in order to achieve the same protection.

..."

[REP]

19. I use insecticidal soap in my greenhouse; you wouldn't want a face full of it

The main components of most insecticidal soap are alcohol and soap. In my little greenhouse, applying it with a pump sprayer isn't a big deal, but if I were applying it to acres and acres of fields ... I'd wear at least face and breathing protection.

[HuckleB]

20. Yup.

[pediatricmedic]

22. Most people don't get the difference between hobby gardens and industrial food production

A number of posts in this thread give a good example of that lack of understanding.

[REP]

23. But everyone's yard is at least an acre!

And they could fill that with corn! CORN!

[Sunlei]

30. They could but corns inexpensive. I got 400 dozen eggs a year off a quarter acre :P

and 3 bushels of corn off the seeds I planted in a 'done' compost pile (from the hens house wood chip litter) That composted area was about only 20 x 20. I crammed the seeds in there and they sprouted within 2 days.

[Gormy Cuss]

32. True and discussions of that would be far more helpful than flamebait

like the OP. For that matter, the OP topic would be a good platform for intelligent conversation on the limitations of industrial scale organic farming, on integrated pest management as a tool for reducing the need for pesticides, etc.

Instead it's just another immature salvo from the biggest proponent of GMOs on DU.

[Major Nikon]

35. Sure, because this is just so much more mature and insightful

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7673626

[Gormy Cuss]

46. Both you and the OP responded in that thread at length

so why the new, absurd flamebait thread rather than a serious discussion? Oh right, because serious discussion is more work.

[Major Nikon]

48. ...and you refrained from pointing out the lack of maturity of that obvious flamebait OP

So it seems a bit strange as to why you'd do so with this one, especially when it's an attempt to counter the aforementioned immature nonsense.

Believe it or not that same bullshit meme is being used over and over in threads which are a genuine attempt at engaging in rational discussion on the subject, along with a never ending stream of nonsense like this....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022429058#post6

[Gormy Cuss]

49. So unless one comments in all absurd threads, one can't comment in any?

Seriously?

[Major Nikon]

52. The ones chosen to comment on is very telling

Especially when there's nothing immature or flamebait about the OP. Included in the OP is this link which is maturely addressing a very real, deceptive, immature, and all too often tactic of the anti-GMO folks. Believe it or not, this is something that very much transcends just this website.

[HuckleB]

51. I avoided that thread for much of the day.

That thread's OP promotes deceitful propaganda. How is anyone going to discuss anything after that. You don't seem to be very objective here.

Heck, you don't call out those OPs at all. Now, why is that?

And you really should justify your claim about this OP. It is not flamebait at all. It is addressing flamebait. There is a very big difference.

[Gormy Cuss]

54. Okay,, I'll address why I called it flamebait.

Because it's railing about organics and anti-GMOers without context (apparently YOU were reacting to other OPs but that's not evident in yours) as if looking for some flaming reaction. A link to the thread or threads you were reacting to or a statement about them would have been helpful.

You then replied with considerable snark to a poster who talked about 'sustainable' practices for home gardeners. That was flamey.

As for the thread linked by Major Nikon, that was also flamebait and it had already been discussed to death when I saw it.

[HuckleB]

55. That poster has a long history of promoting anti-GMO stances.

His posts here were meant to distract from the actual content of the OP, by pretending that he does something everyone should be doing.

Your history appears to be one that supports anti-GMO stances. I don't think you're being honest here. Further, the other OP is ten times the flamebait. The fact that you didn't start there remains telling.

[Gormy Cuss]

62. No, my history is that I'm pro-GMO labeling.

Big difference. I'm also annoyed when GMO backers conflate hybridization and GE in order to convince people that there's no potential harm in the latter (it's as dumb as when the anti-GMOers confuse pesticide/herbicides with GMO crops.)

On DU I've read at least one really good defense of GMOs penned by a scientist (MikeC.) Most of the time it's nonsense barbs posted on both sides with an occasional intelligent post lost in the middle.

[HuckleB]

67. No difference, unless you want labeling for all types of seed development technology.

And the fact that there is no justification for such labeling does make your stance anti-GMO. Your last comment shows that you are either not being honest, or haven't bothered to read much, btw.

[Gormy Cuss]

76. Labelling products from all seeds would be acceptable.

The ONLY reason there is a push against labeling is that the ag and food industries recognize that consumer sentiment is overwhelmingly against GMOs in the food supply, just as it was overwhelmingly against irradiated food. Labeling is a profit-killer unless the industries can convince consumers of a benefit (and calling consumers 'anti-science' is not going to convince anyone.)


As for your last comment, I've read a lot of threads on this topic. The dishonesty is on your part.

[HuckleB]

77. And that's because organic and non-GMO marketers are lying.

They have created myths about GMOs that are ludicrous, all aimed at increasing number their profits. Wake up. You have been conned

[HuckleB]

36. Yeah, it's horrible to point out that ludicrous anti-GMO memes are ludicrous.

[Rex]

47. I thought they worse that stuff, no matter what industry, for their own safety.

Because of ONE modified Cheeto...THIS all happened! Series!

[HuckleB]

50. Plus, it looks cool.

[U4ikLefty]

56. Do organic farmers send creepy obscenity-laden DU mails?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027419447#post83

[HuckleB]

58. Awesome!

That has what to do with the topic?

Are you pushing the shill gambit?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024512365#post5

You do realize that is just plain creepy. Just because it's not a supposed obscenity, doesn't mean that's not the full intent.

[U4ikLefty]

60. Wait, you mean the personality disorders of Big-Agra shills

is NOT the topic?

[HuckleB]

61. Wow! Now, you're promoting stigma for people with mental illness.

Impressive.

PS: https://www.nami.org/Blogs/NAMI-Blog/October-2015/9-Ways-to-Fight-Mental-Health-Stigma

[U4ikLefty]

63. I don't equate mental illness with being an asshole with no boundaries.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027419447#post83

[HuckleB]

64. Hypocrisy is a funny thing.

[U4ikLefty]

65. Guess you saw hypocrisy in the mirror. nt

[HuckleB]

66. I know you are, but what am I?

[U4ikLefty]

68. Already back to the third grade ROFL smileys? You must be out of bullets.

I'm already bored with your tired schtick. So you're getting the Batman treatment again.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027419447#post56

[HuckleB]

69. That's so cute.

Didn't you just offer up a classic childhood comment about a mirror?

Oh, goodness.

Why do hate laughter? Oh, you're not trying to make me laugh?

Well...

Do you have anything to add to the discussion?

Do you think deceitful memes are ethical?

BTW, thanks for the kicks.

[womanofthehills]

74. Wow - it seems like your main interest in life is

promoting GMO's . How sad is that!

[HuckleB]

75. Wow -- it seems like your main interest in life is

promoting fictions and pseudoscience. How sad is that!

[HuckleB]

83. Hey, what do you think about anti-GMO memes that are this deceitful?

Are you cool with such silliness?

Really?

[HuckleB]

72. Do anti-GMOers always push fictions and logical fallacies?

Hmmm.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/07/are_gmos_safe_yes_the_case_against_them_is_full_of_fraud_lies_and_errors.html

[Recursion]

80. Back when I had an apiary my suit was even scarier

I miss those bees.

[HuckleB]

82. Well, I hope you got pics!

Those suits are awesome...

[HuckleB]

84. .