General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)malaise
(269,045 posts)on the ground - no one grabbed the attacker
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)be trusted not to knee-jerk protect the "authority" when situations arise. There are literally many thousands of stories like this out there, and no one should imagine being white would protect one from becoming the subject of another.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)safeinOhio
(32,688 posts)Paint job.
America
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Notice that what triggered the spectator punch was the protester waving F U gestures to the crowd. The spectator was clearly wrong, but the protester wasn't very wise. I can see why the police in crowd control mode would focus on evacuating the protester.
nolabear
(41,984 posts)While they were being escorted out, Donald was yelling "Go home! Go home to your mother!" The man who got punched had lost his mother fairly recently and reacted with a FU toward Donald. Not that anyone knew that then.
BUT, he was an innocent victim. There is a line. He did not cross it. Cowboy John did.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)I can see why Trump's mother joke could cause the protester to make a F U gesture
I can see why a spectator at a heated political rally could react to a F U gesture
G_j
(40,367 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 10, 2016, 10:36 PM - Edit history (1)
sure, I can too, given the lynch mob mentality being nurtured at these rallies.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Tickling tigers and provoking crowds are not activities which are danger free
(even if in this case, I understand the FU gesture was accidentally triggered)
G_j
(40,367 posts)it's that simple
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Go among people demonstrating and start chanting the opposite of what they are asking.
See how it goes.
bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)but assault is still a crime, while flipping someone off is not. Usually by middle school individuals are well enough aware of that and practice self control.
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)SusanaMontana41
(3,233 posts)From the U.S. Supreme Court case Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969)
"Freedoms of speech and press do not permit a State to forbid advocacy of the use of force or of law violation
except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite
or produce such action. Whitney v. California, 274 U. S. 357, overruled.
[link:https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/395/444/
G_j
(40,367 posts)attempt to incite riots..
SusanaMontana41
(3,233 posts)How bad does it have to get?
Another Gabby Giffords tragedy? Another Kent State? Another long hot summer? God forbid, another assassination? Trumpf has been ramping up to something since he divulged Sen. Lindsey Graham's private phone number during one of his early rallies.
He's the predictable result of years of eating at the trough of right-wing hate. But no longer is he just a problem for the GOP. Like it or not, he's the nation's problem now, too.
Every bleepin' time he opens his mouth he endangers all of us.
I'm so glad the Breitbart reporter filed charges. May she be the first of a deluge.
[link:http://m.nydailynews.com/news/politics/donald-trump-rally-st-louis-features-protests-article-1.2561617
G_j
(40,367 posts)SusanaMontana41
(3,233 posts)Don't know how I missed your beautiful Bernie avatar.
D-UH.
Forgive me, G_j, for I did not know what I was doing.
G_j
(40,367 posts)The person I was responding to seemed to be suggesting the victim of the assault could have been inciting a riot. I just read today that the NC police are considering charging Trump himself with inciting violence.
SusanaMontana41
(3,233 posts)The U.S. Supreme Court settled this in Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969):
"Freedoms of speech and press do not permit a State to forbid advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."
There it is. A two-pronged test. Trumpf meets that test at every rally.
What are the country and law enforcement waiting for? A murder?
[link:https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/395/444/
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)Condoning or apathy towards violence
Flipping a finger back at the protestor understandable
Punching then later saying next time we may have to kill
no the victim should not have this coming for a FU
Reminds me of the reply Trump gave regarding his previous statement on Tiananmen Square in the debate
nolabear
(41,984 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)because I would guess what could happen
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)It was the victim's fault.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)If a guy in a Nazi uniform enters a meeting of the families of survivors of Auschwitz and gets beaten up, would you say the victim had no role in what happened to him?
Anyway, I'm not here to defend Trump and I took note of the info I was given after my initial post that the FU gesture was provoked by the taunt which fell on a sensitive spot.
Now, let's leave this issue and move on.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)There's no excuse for the right wing coward to attack the protester.
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)It's a woman, any person's, prerogative to go about unmolested regardless of their clothes.
It's quite a different matter to step in a crowd of people of a different opinion than yours and gesture at them. Try making FU gestures during a religious service, and see if you'll be spared a scuffle.
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)Except maybe in a cave.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Anyway, end of discussion, I'm not here to defend the guy who gave the punch.
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)makes me want to say your opinion in this matter makes me want to pop you in the mouth. Now will you argue if I were to pop you in the mouth that you asked for it because we are discussing politics, which can get heated. I mean, I guess we could all see that your ignorance deserves a good punch, right?
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)trying to show how ridiculous it is to blame for victim for the violence. It is absolutely no different than some pig saying a woman shouldn't have been wearing tight clothing - after all, HE considers it provocative. Only animals can't control themselves. I hope the cowboy has the book thrown at him (especially after saying next time he would kill him - this was before he realized he was on video and got arrested).
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)Are you saying that 'practice' alters whether a victim is 'innocent' or not? If you leave your front door open while you're round the back of the house, and someone runs in and steals something, you might say that "wasn't very wise" of you, but it doesn't stop you being an innocent victim. Does 'practice', ie what happens, somehow make the victim guilty of something, to you?
Interesting that you call the sheriff's people leaping on top of the victim "evacuating the protester". And wrong, of course.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)And then say they may kill them if they return to the service again
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)"No one should be subjected to such a cowardly, unprovoked act as that committed by McGraw," said Sheriff Butler. "Regardless of political affiliation, speech, race, national origin, color, gender, bad reputation, prior acts, or political demonstration, no other citizen has the right to assault another person or to act in such a way as this defendant did. I hope that the courts will handle this matter with the appropriate severity for McGraw's severe and gross violation of this victim's rights."
http://abc11.com/politics/man-charged-after-punching-trump-protester-/1240199/
Your move.
spanone
(135,844 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)We teach our kids that there is no excuse for such behavior. How is it that so many adults fail to understand this basic tenet?
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Now, why don't you give it a rest?
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)You kidding? What you said is so morally bankrupt as to cause me not to let up at all. See post #4.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Now, will you climb down from your high horse?
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts). . . . down in that hole you dug yourself into.
Reread this thread. Maybe, just maybe, you can mull over what people are saying to you. A little introspection can be a good thing when your ass overloads your mouth.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Your opinions are pure and you are a knight in shiny armor.
I amended my comment #4 based on better input #5. But youre unwavering in perfection.
Keep fighting any hint of moral impurity like Ted Cruz would. Now, leave me alone, will you?
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)In this case, you were wrong and I was right.
Period.
Yammering on in your own defense of the indefensible just digs that hole deeper and makes the white horse I am on seem taller.
Dude.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Dude
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)Keep it up, victim shamer.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)strawman maker
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)But you keep trying. I'm here all week. Be sure to tip your waitress.
Unless you want to blame her because the guy in the kitchen spit in your pancakes.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)And making gestures at a political rally isn't smart
All I'm sayin'
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)I'm glad you tip.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)There have been quite a few threads which expressed the same point I was making in my post #4 in this present thread, i.e., that it is a very debatable attitude to go and disrupt political rallies of opposing parties:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027676621
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027676179
I understand it is not your point of view, but I find it rather arrogant of you to pretend your point of view is hallowed, and that the contrary point of view is a hole of shame.
PS: the point of view I defend, i.e., that it is a very debatable attitude to go and disrupt political rallies of opposing parties, is what Voltaire meant and which is often reported in the apocryphal quote: I disagree with your opinion, but will fight for your right to express it.
Back to my post #4 that you have been harassing me continuously about for one day now, I was expressing the same thing, albeit far less eloquently than Voltaire. While it is indeed regrettable that the protester got punched -and I said so from the get-go-, there is also a strong case to be made against disrupting the political rallies of opponents in a democracy.
Now, wlll you please leave me alone?
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)And "harassment"? Heh!
You can end this any time. Just don't answer me.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)Not cool.
Look at it this way. We're building up your post count. See how nice I am to you?
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)You're welcome.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)You're on a tear compared to that, Hoss.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)malaise
(269,045 posts)malaise
(269,045 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)No, what triggered the punch was that the twenty gallons of pigshit in a ten-gallon hat thought he had a right to punch another man in the face.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)I got corrected on the fact the FU gesture had been a reflex action to painful taunt,
but stop harping on it: a FU gesture against a crowd can not end well.
Now can you all stop punching me over a simple remark?
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)And you're right that blame can be apportioned all around. FU in front of that crowd was unwise.
However: the target of a mob of thousands cannot be expected to act more rationally than members of the mob. His fight-or-flight must have been at light speed compared to the sucker-puncher.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Now let's all move on to something else. We flogged that horse to death already.
TeamPooka
(24,229 posts)malaise
(269,045 posts)and not one approaches the attacker
TeamPooka
(24,229 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)to justify any physical assault.
IsItJustMe
(7,012 posts)As far as I can understand the law, no one has the right to hit you unless they are defending themselves. I seriously think you either do not understand the law, or have a twisted view of when force should or can be applied. Neither one of these is a good thing.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)I was glad to hear that today.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts). . . take a picture of the instance they ever give Republicans even a hard time, because that's not going to happen often.