My friend is being abused by her boyfriend and won't quit him

[ghostsinthemachine]

She meets guy online. I tell her he is an abuser after a couple of weeks when she tells me some of the things that are happening. No violence (yet),, but some pretty glaring stuff.
They go out, she calls me to save her. This goes on for months and months.

Then, last Friday she calls me and is in tears. He got drunk and picked a fight over something in her past. I go rescue her. I think she is going to go home (a place she doesn't like to be, she shares a house) when we part. Instead, against my advice, she goes to his house (where she has almost moved into). He is still drinking and again picks a fight with her. This time he hits her (behind the head, abuser's target so no marks). They fight like crazy, he spits on her, punches her, tackles her but she never calls 911. Somewhere along the line she gets a kick in and gives him a black eye (she is all of 90 pounds).

I get no call until Friday asking me to come to her work (bartender at a dive bar) and I notice she is now wearing an engagement ring! Then she tells me the harrowing story of the last week. Giving him all the excuses possible (his "ex was a black belt so he is scared", " he was drinking hard alcohol" "it is so perfect when he isn't hitting me...all of them). She tells me he is going to buy her a 5000 dollar ring and shows me the wedding dress she has picked out. I am flipped out.

We go out for a while, have some fun and try to talk to her.(he is at work so this will remain secret). I tell her how this is a classic abuser story, everything this guy is doing leads up to abuse. He wants her to quit her job, get married etc.
I Nam telling her that he is an abuser and that it will only get worse. I tell her that every time it gets worse and will get worse UNTIL HE KILLS YOU. Again, like the week before, I think I am getting through to her, this time talking about options etc and we part, with her saying she is going to go home and move her stuff out of his house today while he is at work. I even told her that I would be pissed if she went back....

I tried texting her last night (don't do something stupid) and again this morning. She also agreed to let me accompany her when this goes down. No return calls or message. That tells me she went back to him. (That's the scenario every other time).

She won't go to WEAVE or call the cops when he beats her. She is so desperate to have a man in her life that it is clouding her thoughts. You would not believe it, she is very beautiful with an amazing funny personality, but it takes a man, any man, to make her feel good about herself. She has the lowest self esteem of anyone I've ever met.

My question is... What do I do? I am at the end of my tether here. She continually goes against my advice (then tells me I was right a week later, but still goes back) and her drama is upsetting my normally drama free life. If I was 20 years younger I know how I would deal with it, but now I am an old man, so that's out. What do I do here? Her parents live a distance and I don't know how to reach them without going through her. WEAVE needs her to call, they can't help her without her say-so. The cops can't help either.
What should I do when I get the next call?

[imanamerican63]

1. I feel bad for her and hopes she finds the courage to drop him!

May God watch over her.

[HERVEPA]

27. Yup, the invisible cloud being will certainly help.

She was asking for useful advice.

[PasadenaTrudy]

30. +1 n/t

[mnhtnbb]

2. Have you called WEAVE's 24 hour hotline to ask their guidance on how to encourage her to get help?

I wonder if it would be good for you to know how to get her to a triage/assessment meeting after the next round of abuse from her boyfriend,
and be prepared to go with her.

It's the old "you can lead a horse to water" story, isn't it?

[malaise]

3. I had a friend in a similar situation

Eventually she left and he would not accept her rejection. He threw her and her sister out of a hotel window in Manhattan the night the two of them and a close male family friend told him it was over in 1973 then he jumped in front of the subway in Brooklyn. He pretended to accept it and waited for the friend to head to his room and then threw both of them out of the window.

[Yo_Mama]

4. When you get the next call, call the cops. Tell them you've received a call for help

from a friend in a violent situation and you are afraid to go there unattended.

You will lose your friend, but the situation doesn't sound safe at all.

[busterbrown]

5. Call the Police and ask for domestic abuse..

And just ask them for advice..

Very little you can do..There are just so many variables to consider including the fact that one can become
addicted to this kind of abuse.. Of course the abused don't recognize or understand this..

So besides getting her numbers of public services she could call, there is not much...
be careful that you don’t get over involved, you could put your own being at risk..

[lunatica]

6. the cops have to help her

I know that here in California domestic abuse always ends up in someone going to jail, no matter what they say. It's the law now since so many women were murdered by their abusers in the past.

Call the police. Your friend doesn't need to even know you called them if you think it's best to keep it from her.

[lostnfound]

7. A friend's secretary was leaving her partner and went back home just to get her clothes

And she was murdered.
The most dangerous time for a woman with an abuser is when she is LEAVING.
Which means she needs a plan (set up for her by friends and family, if she can't do it herself) to get her safely away from him, without chances for him to exact retribution or try to get her back.

[Lizzie Poppet]

8. How incredibly frustrating and infuriating!

I've been in a similar situation with a friend, and felt similar frustrations. I also don't have that "20 years ago" option, although for different reasons. I'm young-ish, but am also a small female...direct confrontation would have to include me having a weapon, and while I'm actually a CCW permit holder, but I believe that permit creates a responsibility to avoid potentially violent confrontations, not start them.

So that was out. I was tearing out my hair, and actually at least halfway contemplating doing something Very Bad...until the creep actually got arrested (for something unrelated), tried, convicted, and sent to prison. Finally, that was enough for her. I was worried she'd still stick by that POS. Maybe something similar will happen to the guy who's hurting your friend...one can always hope!

[cannabis_flower]

9. No violence yet?

He hit her in the back of the head. That's violence.

[ghostsinthemachine]

16. The violence came later

Reread the OP

[Divernan]

10. You are in the middle of a messy and dangerous situation

Here's what I think. The fact that she is a bartender at a dive bar indicates that even if she gets out of this relationship, she'll repeat her mistaken judgment. Mr. Right is not going to appear there.

A job in a less dysfunctional setting would be a start to a mentally healthy lifestyle. Going to a trade school or the like would also be a positive move. But her boyfriend would actively discourage that. Abusers always block any moves toward independence by their victims - the more helpless and dependent a woman is, the better the abuser likes it.

Contacting her parents might help but if she is so lacking in self-confidence and never got an education to work in a job requiring any particular skills, odds are her parents weren't supportive of her when she was growing up, so aren't likely emotionally or financially equipped to help her now.

Take care of your own self - If the typical pattern plays out, and she's lucky, he'll beat the shit out of her, without killing her, and the cops will prosecute, throw his ass in jail and she'll be free of him. And by the way, does this asshole have a gun? He can pose a danger to you if he thinks you'll take away his victim. If she quotes your opinions to him, you've got a nasty enemy.

OK - I just looked up WEAVE. Hadn't heard of it before.
Women’s Education for Advancement and Empowerment
www.weave-women.org

Sounds like the best bet - they have lots of experience and have professionals to deal with this kind of situation. Do your best to pressure her in to going to see them - you could offer to go with her. It's tough love time - ultimatum - if she won't at the very least have one meeting with them, walk away. And that means, cut off all contact.

She's counting on you always being there to save her - which basically comes down to you enabling her to stay with the abuser. You're the safety net she thinks will always save her. Well you can't save her if she's dead, can you? If you give her an ultimatum, and follow through on it, it may work and she'll agree to go to WEAVE.

Never give an ultimatum unless you are prepared to follow through on it, of course.

Good luck!

[ghostsinthemachine]

17. He's a gunner.

The first pic he sent her had an assault rifle in the background. Why I am not willing to confront him.

[shanti]

21. guns and alcohol

no bueno you have a right to be petrified.

[ghostsinthemachine]

22. Yeah. Scary situation

I am afraid just being her friend. He knows where I live and hang out too. We've met on a couple of occasions (total asshole) but knows that we are just friends. Their arguments are never about me (which is good) but still......

[shanti]

19. not sure where the OP is located

but here in sacramento, WEAVE stands for "Women Escaping a Violent Environment. it's the local women's shelter. dunno if it's a national group or not...

[ghostsinthemachine]

24. I'm in Sacramento

And WEAVE is wonderful. But I can't kidnap her to take her there.

[raccoon]

25. Well said. nt

[mercuryblues]

11. unfortunately

this type of situation is far too common. For someone like you, looking in and seeing exactly what is going on can be heartbreaking and infuriating. It is a fine line you have to straddle. If you push too much, the boyfriend will do everything in his power to get her to disown you. I have given this advice to friends that were in abusive relationships. Lack of money is a deterrent for leaving. I let them know that they should set up a secret bank acct and use my address for statements. Put what you can into it each week. That way if you decide to leave, you have a nest egg. If you don't leave you have Xmas money. Hint...they usually leave. A question I ask. Where do you see this relationship in 10 years, 20 years? Sometimes when the focus is shifted to a lifetime of this abuse instead of how to avoid a beating today; it is a wakeup call. Don't tell her what she should do, she is already getting enough of that from the boyfriend. Phrase things as questions to get her to come to terms with it on her own. It may take a while.



When she does leave, it would be nice if she has a paper trail with the police on his abuse, so she can get a RO. Insist on taking pictures of her bruises. The most dangerous time for a woman in this type of relationship is when she actually leaves for good. Keep that in mind. She may need to quit her job if he starts harassing or stalking her.

Keep you friendship as far away from him as possible. Let her know if she does leave him, you are always there for her. No matter what.

If it doesn't work you can always object at her wedding.

[OregonBlue]

12. I agree that you need to stay away from the two of them when they are together. He could become

more violent at any time. Also sounds like there may be alcohol dependence involved and those situations are really volatile.

Ultimately, you can't do much until she admits that it's an abusive relationship and asks for help.

[Oneironaut]

15. ^^^ Good advice

[underahedgerow]

13. I have to say that YOU need to be very careful also. My co-worker was murdered by his

friends' ex-bf abuser that she was trying to break up with; identical situation.

He came looking for her in my co-worker's apartment and shot them both.

Look after your own self and don't be a hero. Just be a friend, and hopefully, your persistence will sink in, with any luck.

[LoveMyCali]

14. I'm sorry you're in this position

I have a similar thing with a close friend of mine. He even spent some time in jail for assaulting her but I've seen her get more and more involved in his life again. I wish I had some sage advice for you, I try to just let her know I will always be here for her. There were times I considered pulling away because it's so frustrating but if anything bad ever happens again she has to know there will always be at least on person she can count on.

[Demonaut]

18. do you have feelings for her?

[ghostsinthemachine]

20. Not really.

Only friends feelings.

[Demonaut]

23. you're a good friend, I don't have any advice other than pushing her to see a counseling

service that deals with the abuse situations, she needs input from a third party.

[Hugin]

26. Too bad, from what you say they are already locked in The Dance of Destruction.

From my experience, it won't end until the total destruction of one or both of them.

However, your own problem (being the problem you can control) is your involvement in the drama.

My advice is to remove yourself from the picture, if you don't want to see the results. But, you probably won't do that.

So, it is what it is. :/

[avebury]

28. You need to walk away from the situation.

Is she is not willing to help herself no amount of you talking to her will change anything. You have to look after your own safety. If she calls indicating that she is in danger, call the cops and let them handle the situation. A record of his abuse needs to be established with the police. But beyond calling the police and letting them deal with the situation I would recommend not letting her suck you into her drama anymore.

[Sweet Freedom]

29. Please do not call the police

as some have suggested. While that might sound like good advice, as soon as they leave he is going to grill her about who she was talking to and how somebody could've known what was going on behind closed doors. He will then completely cut her off from the outside world and go in to total control-freak mode. He is already unstable and violent… and armed. This will make it worse.

I agree with the comments to look to weave for their input.

You're a good friend. She's in a terrifying predicament. Abusers are masters at making those with low self-esteem believe that they will be nothing but failures on their own.

I hope your friend finds her inner strength soon!

[LeftyMom]

31. The cops here are useless, I really don't blame her for not calling them.

Honestly, they probably would make things worse in most circumstances, and their approach to abused women generally to bully them further. There's sometimes an impulse to blame abused women for not helping themselves when really they're being more realistic and strategic than you realize if you haven't been in their shoes.

As far as what you can do? He's going to try to isolate her. He's especially going to try to keep you out of her life if you're actively calling bullshit on his behavior, her not answering you may mean that's already happening.

The "good" news, to the extent that there is some good news here, is that she's a bartender at a dive bar (I'm hoping this isn't anyone I know, but please don't out whoever you're talking about) so she's seen this show before, and she can't be too naive. So here's what you need to focus on: don't participate in a him-or-me narrative. Her boyfriend will be working that, you'll lose, and it'll make his grip on her tighter. Keep her getting out and socializing, work on building up her sense of self. She's strong, she's smart, people like her. He's not the only one who appreciates or understands her. Talk to her about your problems and ask her for her advice just to remind her that she's a good problem solver. Ask her opinions about things going on around town, in your group of friends. He's going to work hard to get her not to trust her own beliefs, you need to remind her through her actions that her opinion is valuable.

If she's not interested in talking to somebody at WEAVE whose advice will she take? If her parents aren't around or an aunt or a wise older friend in the picture? What's her relationship with her boss and coworkers, will one of them help her? Does she have a friend who is an abuse survivor who is willing to talk about it? Hell, if she works at a dive bar she might well have customer/friends who would be happy to keep an eye on things while she moves her stuff- working class people are generally a lot more willing to intervene in those situations than prosperous people, in my experience.

Also, there's a very high probability that this guy is going to break her phone (or take it away, or give her a new one and then stop paying her bill, etc) as part of the isolation process. He's almost certainly reading her text messages and checking her call logs. A cheap burner phone can call 911 even if it doesn't have any minutes on it, and would be a good investment in her safety.

[ghostsinthemachine]

32. I called WEAVE and they were helpful but

There ain't much help there. A shelter in Davis, which she would not go to and some counseling, which she may go to...eventually.
She hasn't returned my texts so I know she is at his house.
I promised her I wouldn't tell anyone but now I am rethinking that and talking to her ex husband, a really great guy and still very much in her life, and to a mutual friend who might be able to talk to her straight up.

I know tomorrow she goes back to work, she will return texts then.

[mercuryblues]

34. the BF

is controlling her line of communication. Please let her know that when she is seriously ready, you will be there for her. Abusers cut off the family and friends to control the victim. The victim will believe that they have nowhere to go if they leave.

[ghostsinthemachine]

35. Yeah, she hates where she lives

And loves being at his house, which she has dolled up. She is so desperate to play house.

[mercuryblues]

36. these types

of relationships are complicated. You have seen it. The abuser hits, the victim leaves, the abuser acts extremely remorseful, makes promises, vows their deep love. I call it an after glow. It is one of the few times a victim feels any power in the relationship, twisted as it is. This is not the time to talk about the abuse. I read one victim describe it as a high. The victim is overwhelmed with the I'm sorries, what would I do without you, I love you, promises and they mean it this time, gifts. Some abusers will threaten suicide and/or murder.

There will be a day when the trade off of a nice home is not worth the abuse. Try not to do anything that will convince her to sever the friendship. Assume that everything you tell her, she will tell him.

[ghostsinthemachine]

37. Man, this is so difficult

All the sub stuff etc. I hate drama and this is in my metaphorical living room. I know not what to do.

[mercuryblues]

38. yup

keep her from unloading on you every time. You have to keep your sanity above all else. Seriously how can she unload all of this on you and expect you to like him and support their relationship? So when she calls to unload, steer the conversation away from that topic. Let her know you are not going to enable her. You won't go pick her up every time she calls you to get her out of there, she should call 911 for that. But you will be there for her when she is ready to leave. It may even take several attempts before she completely breaks it off.

[lapislzi]

33. Here is what you do. You respect your friend.

Your friend is doing what she thinks she needs to do to stay alive. Your judgment isn't doing any good here and may be pushing your friend away. Constantly pressing her to leave or take some other action can erode her already shaky sense of self. Trust me: it doesn't help, and often hurts.

I understand from your description of your friend that she may have emotional or psychological issues that cause her to be drawn to these types of partners. That's not for you to fix, even if you've been a fixer all your life. You can't fix this.

It is heartbreaking to watch, but you can't make her do what she's unwilling or not ready to do.

You can continue your emotional support in the best way you feel comfortable doing (that won't lead to your own emotional undoing), but you can't make her leave her abusive partner. In fact, it may be unsafe for her to do that.

Present the information. Keep the lines of communication open. Be a nonjudgmental friend and hope she eventually chooses the safe, healthy path.

A few nonthreatening things you can help her with:
--A prepaid cell phone
--An emergency bug-out kit with essential items
--Keep copies of her social security card and driver's license in case these are lost or left behind
--A small stash of cash

Present it. Tell her where these things are, and how she can get them in a hurry.

Good luck.

[Shankapotomus]

48. I wonder if a covert operation

to draw the woman's affections and attention away from the abuser would ever work?

This is an extreme suggestion but the op said she has low self-esteem and is clinging to the guy for that reason. Obviously, as you recommend no overt interference is best but, as a strictly hypothetical, what you could hire a handsome actor to slowly woo this woman away from this guy?
I know it's insane but given that you can't do anything else how do you think that would work out?

If you could have access to a team of professional pickup artists/sjw's/actors, could such women in these kinds of situations be safely drawn away from these abusive relationships?

I know it's extreme and has a lot of ethical issues and possible repercussions if the woman ever finds out its not a real attraction but created to save their life. The object being to distract the woman from the abusive relationship, build up her self-esteem so she doesn't feel so desperate for companionship at that price and then kind of let her go when it feels she's strong enough without her ever knowing it was a fake relationship.

I know it's based on a lie and is more an idea for fiction than reality but distracting someone in an abusive relationship by throwing a better option in front of them might be enough to save someone's life, no?

[ghostsinthemachine]

39. This morning's text (she hadn't responded till today)

"Well my best buddy you're going to think I'm crazy, oh wait a minute you already know I'm crazy and I'm getting married in three weeks he does treat me like a queen. That one incident because of alcohol both of us don't drink anymore."

Poor girl. Of course I am going to lose my friend now. I refuse to go to a wedding (can't imagine there will be much of one) but I won't be able to stomach him in any situation. Textbook case.
I give up.

[ghostsinthemachine]

40. I don't even know how to respond today

I am not one who lets text messages sit, I answer right away usually, but I can't say congratulations.

[lapislzi]

41. Don't get mad at me.

But, now is not the time. To make a stand. She needs you now more than ever. You don't have to endorse her choice. But losing you as a friend could be very bad for her.

Please, please, step back and try not to judge. I know it's hard. Please consider supporting your friend, even though you think she's making a bad choice.

[ghostsinthemachine]

42. How though?

I know exactly what happens here. I can call it, probably to the day.

I can't say congrats, that wouldn't be me. I certainly can't go to the wedding. So how do I support her? Insincerity is something I find impossible.

[lapislzi]

44. Yes, you do.

I know you can't sincerely congratulate her for walking into a charnel house. But, it sounds to me like she has so few options. Losing just one could be devastating for her.

You can tell her, gently, how you feel: that you think she's being hasty, or making a mistake, and that you're concerned for her well-being. The main thing is to show your concern and support. It utterly, totally, sucks when you know they're making the worst possible choice.

If you honestly can't stomach the wedding, let her know that you'll still be her friend, but that it would be too painful for you to attend, because you love her and care about her future.

Good luck to you.

[ghostsinthemachine]

45. Thank you

This is killing me. Thanks for some guidance.

[lapislzi]

46. Been on both ends, friend

The hardest damn thing in the world is to grit your teeth and keep loving the person. When I was the victim in the abusive relationship, I had people walk away from me because they said I was a damned fool. While that may have been true at the time, it didn't help me much in my struggle to get free of the relationship. My best friend was a former priest who said little but whose steady presence gave me courage. We're still friends, and I'm in a much better place.

I try to provide this courage-space for a woman in my office whom I know is being abused. I just let her be and tell her that I'm here if she wants advice or help. Hell, I think she's an amazing person for managing not to get murdered by her brute of a boyfriend (and I've told her so).

This may help you or give you some comfort: http://heatherplett.com/2015/03/hold-space/

[Arazi]

49. I saw you got a hide and can't respond but maybe you'll see this

please text her back. Don't abandon her. Be a steady friend - it's exactly what she needs now

Tell her this: I wish I could say congrats but I can't. My wedding gift is to say I'll always be here for you. Call me day or night. Love, Ghost

You don't have to go to the wedding. If she's having it in 3 weeks it's going to be a small one anyway. "Gift" her a grab bag - copies of her drivers license and credit cards, the WEAVE phone number, underwear and a change of clothing or two. Tell her you'll keep it at your house so if she needs to run immediately, she can.

Good luck. Be brave. You're doing an amazing thing

[Sam_Fields]

43. My Mom's abuser killed her

No matter how much the other family members tried to intervene she wouldn't leave him. She eventually died from complications of the beatings she received.

[nilesobek]

50. Post hidden so cannot even post?

Of all the hides I've seen this is the worst.

If you have a friend who is a police officer you could slip him the info on the sly. Be very specific about the info, include numbers and addresses and they will be interested in his gun.

They may just keep notes and/or put it in their intelligence file. Some departments can be very proactive.

Just a suggestion. I know you're right about this and you just see the train wreck comin'. Wish all the best for you.