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marmar

(77,084 posts)
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 11:02 AM Feb 2016

The United States Has Blocked a Plan by India to Expand Solar Power and Create Local Jobs


This piece first appeared at Climate News Network.


LONDON—India has been told that it cannot go ahead as planned with its ambitious plan for a huge expansion of its renewable energy sector, because it seeks to provide work for Indian people. The case against India was brought by the US.

The ruling, by the World Trade Organisation (WTO), says India’s National Solar Mission—which would create local jobs, while bringing electricity to millions of people—must be changed because it includes a domestic content clause requiring part of the solar cells to be produced nationally.

What a difference two months make. On 12 December last year, US President Barack Obama praised the Paris Agreement on tackling climate change, just hours after it was finally concluded. “We’ve shown what’s possible when the world stands as one,” he said, adding that the agreement “represents the best chance we have to save the one planet that we’ve got”.

Clear-cut victory

The WTO says that its dispute settlement panel “handed the US a clear-cut victory . . . when it found that local content requirements India imposed on private solar power producers in a massive solar project violated trade rules, although the two sides are still discussing a potential settlement to the dispute”. ................(more)

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_united_states_has_blocked_a_plan_by_india_to_expand_20160226




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The United States Has Blocked a Plan by India to Expand Solar Power and Create Local Jobs (Original Post) marmar Feb 2016 OP
actually India did it appears Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #1
"Illegal" by the WTO's corporate fascist standards. marmar Feb 2016 #2
by excluding others, how is that free? Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #4
Agreed. But it's because of the WTO's trade regime..... marmar Feb 2016 #5
they signed the the deal Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #8
Again, this sounds like a ruling by the WTO's tribunal. marmar Feb 2016 #10
They agreed to the rules of the WTO when they joined Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #11
"I can hire four of him for what I pay for one of you" Baobab Feb 2016 #21
If I am considering joining an organization with rules, pampango Feb 2016 #23
They signed the agreement so who is to blame for that? randome Feb 2016 #6
Signed what agreement? Sounds like a ruling by the WTO's kangaroo court. marmar Feb 2016 #7
sounds like they are part of the WTO Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #9
Definitely an establishmentarian. ronnie624 Feb 2016 #12
All India has to do is remove the domestic protectionist clauses of the plan or leave the WTO. branford Feb 2016 #14
Rearranging deck chairs. ronnie624 Feb 2016 #17
Then you need to speak with India, branford Feb 2016 #19
well said sir Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #22
They signed on to free trade treaties for domestic advantage. They have to comply. Yo_Mama Feb 2016 #13
Because the imperialist empire wants malaise Feb 2016 #28
Yay money! tazkcmo Feb 2016 #3
Are you really claiming India cannot expand it use of solar power branford Feb 2016 #15
I'm only claiming tazkcmo Feb 2016 #16
And what will replace money in your utopia? branford Feb 2016 #20
Perfect example of neoliberal manipulation. RedCappedBandit Feb 2016 #18
Actually, the outcome isn't all that bad for India. NNadir Feb 2016 #24
Fracking is the answer. Octafish Feb 2016 #25
So in your opinion, nuclear is 'the answer?' elleng Feb 2016 #26
I understand the argument in favor of nuclear. randome Feb 2016 #27
I have no idea why anyone would want to send used nuclear fuel to the moon. NNadir Feb 2016 #32
Yes. It clearly and unambiguously is. I made one case for it... NNadir Feb 2016 #31
I think the global capitalist paradigm is weakening daleo Feb 2016 #29
so things like this make up for H1Bs ? JI7 Feb 2016 #30
Blame FDR. Before him there was not international trading organization. Under Herbert Hoover pampango Feb 2016 #33
 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
1. actually India did it appears
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 11:06 AM
Feb 2016

By adding the illegal domestic content clause. Easy fix is to remove it.

marmar

(77,084 posts)
2. "Illegal" by the WTO's corporate fascist standards.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 11:09 AM
Feb 2016

Why should it be illegal to have your own country's firms get the contracts? Only in the warped logic of "free" trade.


 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
4. by excluding others, how is that free?
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 11:28 AM
Feb 2016

That is not free trade. I do not like these free trade deals anyway.

marmar

(77,084 posts)
5. Agreed. But it's because of the WTO's trade regime.....
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 11:30 AM
Feb 2016

.... that India isn't allowed to give its local companies preference. That's insanity.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
8. they signed the the deal
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 11:35 AM
Feb 2016

Now they have to live with that choice. I doubt we could compete anyway.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
11. They agreed to the rules of the WTO when they joined
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 11:47 AM
Feb 2016
This page gathers key information on India's participation in the WTO. India has been a WTO member since 1 January 1995 and a member of GATT since 8 July 1948.


https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/india_e.htm

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
21. "I can hire four of him for what I pay for one of you"
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:54 PM
Feb 2016

Last edited Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

These two stories may have some usefulness..

http://www.iatp.org/blog/201602/obama-undermines-climate-efforts-in-solar-trade-dispute

No green jobs for you! Secret EU-US trade agreement threatens Minnesota’s solar rebate and other local green job programs



Playing the devils advocate, this is likely another coverup, like the mess in health care, of the consequences of secret trade deals behind the scenes that will 1.) make energy much more expensive, by exporting natural gas thats been barred from export for 50 years - 2.) claiming it will create stimulus, after 1 causes massive job losses and housing losses and loss of rent stabilization in cities due to sudden price increases, solution will be proposed- allocate federal money for 'infrastructure' (since millions will be forced into the countryside and need energy efficient housing' which will stimulate owners of contracting firms and create millions of low wage jobs which 3.) due to services procurement liberalisation, will be bid out INTERNATIONALLY, and likely will go to firms in countries like India that supply the workers- these deals will funnel money to already rich people and wont create the stimulus - in the sense people think, thats the consequences of corporate rule-

The only jobs that will be created will have to be compliant with US ideology which means that low wages will funnel green jobs to low bidders - the lowest qualified bidder, and all trading partners of the US will win, not 'overpaid' US workers, because - of the fact that I explained in the title..

Its more profitable to use trade deals now to get workers because no wage parity laws apply to L1 contractors working under treaty provisions..

This solar case is perhaps prearranged theatre..

Like Obamacare failing on schedule, I suspect it is a way of per-conditioning the world to think that some natural process is occurring.. when its all pre-arranged, I suspect..

the hubub is all about the trading of jobs for markets in a huge global poker game - by means of trade deals..

But "Mode Four" as it is called is an extremely sensitive subject, because Americans want those jobs that are being promised to other countries. But American wages are seen as higher than global norms reflect, and it would be politically unpopular to lower them to sub-subsistence levels. Just so American firms could win contracts going to Third World staffing firms, after all, people will be starving.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
23. If I am considering joining an organization with rules,
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:19 PM
Feb 2016

I can decide not to join because, on balance, I believe the bad outweighs the good in those rules. Or I can go ahead and join because, while there is bad, I believe it is outweighed by the good.

India has been a member of GATT/WTO since 1948. If they were to believe that the bad now outweighs the good, they can withdraw from the WTO. Several republican state party platforms in recent years have urged the US to do just that so that the US can make its own rules and disregard what other countries might want.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
6. They signed the agreement so who is to blame for that?
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 11:31 AM
Feb 2016

Remove the clause and nothing is stopped.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
12. Definitely an establishmentarian.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:21 PM
Feb 2016

The path to mitigating the impending climate disasters, will require fundamental change and sacrifice that can be pretty frightening in its implications. For Americans, it will mean a loss of global preeminence, and that scares the hell out of many.

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
14. All India has to do is remove the domestic protectionist clauses of the plan or leave the WTO.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:41 PM
Feb 2016

Neither issue has anything to do with mitigation of any impending climate disaster or prevents India from expanding its use of solar power.

However, it appears that you openly believe that the loss of American influence is a feature, not a bug, to any climate change mitigation proposals. Do you really expect that to change American opinion in favor of the climate plans you support, or more realistically, expect opinions to harden?


ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
17. Rearranging deck chairs.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:08 PM
Feb 2016

Americans need to learn to become members of the global community, in cooperation with other nations.

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
19. Then you need to speak with India,
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:40 PM
Feb 2016

because protectionist measures, particularly while part of the WTO, does not exactly signal "global community."

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
13. They signed on to free trade treaties for domestic advantage. They have to comply.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:35 PM
Feb 2016

No country should be able to have it both ways - free trade when advantageous to that country (and disadvantageous to others), but domestic-advantaged when it suits the country's own interests.

That is not free trade.

If you want to argue that India would do better to junk free-trade pacts, fine.

In general, once countries have agreed to international treaties they should abide by them.

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
15. Are you really claiming India cannot expand it use of solar power
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:45 PM
Feb 2016

without violating voluntarily entered into WTO agreements that prohibit certain protectionist measures, particularly where WTO membership has benefited India?

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
20. And what will replace money in your utopia?
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:49 PM
Feb 2016

Shall we return to the barter system, or do you favor some one world centralized communist government? The conversion from the former allowed for virtually all of advanced civilization and technological advancement, and in addition to the total lack of any sort of democratic mandate or support, communism has been proven quite the failed economic and political system.

Further, what "progress" does money hold back? As history clearly demonstrates, it's most certainly not matters like technological innovation.

Humans are greedy, tribal and competitive. Money is not a cause of evil or anything else, it's simply a means of exchange.

NNadir

(33,532 posts)
24. Actually, the outcome isn't all that bad for India.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:19 PM
Feb 2016

Solar cells represent a huge toxicological hazard, provide very little energy, and are an unfortunate fad that will leave the world even more impoverished than it was in the first place.

In the last ten years, the world "invested" nearly two trillion dollars in solar and wind energy, which combined do not produce even 5 of the 560 exajoules humanity consumes each year. For this money we could have doubled the per capita annual income of a billion Indians.

As a result of this so called "investment" in so called "renewable energy," the world is burning more coal, more gas, and more petroleum than ever. We can see the signature very clearly in the planetary atmosphere. The year just passed is either the worst or second worst (depending on the final compilation of the data in March 2016) ever observed in recorded history for increases in carbon dioxide.

I gave the details here: It's looking very bad these last few weeks at the Mauna Loa carbon dioxide observatory. Another poster in that thread produced this telling graphic that sums it up perfectly.



It's clearly not working and it will not work. The reason is pure physics, low energy to mass ratio, reliance on unsustainable materials, process costs, including environmental process costs, unreliability, ignored disposal issues, and the requirement for instantaneous back up.

The misplaced faith in this technology has been an ethical disaster of the first order, but unfortunately the world is oblivious to that fact. I am very proud to among the first to question this disastrous if popular policy of generating vast amounts of future intractable electronic waste.

Solar PV electricity is not sustainable; it is not safe; it is not economic.

Happily for India, they have one of the most innovative approaches to nuclear fuel management in the world.

Whatever the reason that India is not participating in this future nightmare, the result is a positive.

elleng

(131,006 posts)
26. So in your opinion, nuclear is 'the answer?'
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:38 PM
Feb 2016

I'm not a student of this as you appear to be, but aren't there problems with disposability/waste?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
27. I understand the argument in favor of nuclear.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:51 PM
Feb 2016

Get private space ventures involved and prices will drop and we can ship all the waste to the Moon.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

NNadir

(33,532 posts)
32. I have no idea why anyone would want to send used nuclear fuel to the moon.
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:10 AM
Feb 2016

Overall, the constituents of used nuclear fuel are extremely valuable.

daleo

(21,317 posts)
29. I think the global capitalist paradigm is weakening
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:25 PM
Feb 2016

It's past its best before date, intellectually, but it will take decades for that change to take hold in the day to day world.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
33. Blame FDR. Before him there was not international trading organization. Under Herbert Hoover
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 07:19 AM
Feb 2016

and Calvin Coolidge countries did whatever they wanted to do to each other.

India could always withdraw from the WTO. Several republican state party platforms have urged the US to do just that in recent years.

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