Here's why Trump can't beat Clinton.

[OilemFirchen]

Though I'm steadfastly convinced that Trump will not be the Republican nominee, should the gods shine down on us and he prevails, remember this graphic and amplify it by ten times per debate:

[Hoyt]

1. I can see her in a debate with Trump, laughing in his face and saying, "you have to be S&^$ing me."

[snooper2]

3. And then he brings up trade, NAFTA, how she was at his wedding, her money from 4 large banks

The democratic party would be stupid to dismiss Trump like the GOP "leadership" did...

[Nedsdag]

21. He'll bring up how he was against the Iraq War

He'll use her vote to give Bush permission to go to war.

[OilemFirchen]

27. And she'll point out that he was as well.

Do you and the other poster above believe that Trump's strategy would be to run to Clinton's left? If so, that's hilarious.

[EdwardBernays]

32. He can run from either side.

He's not been forced to adopt traditional GOP taking points.

He is for universal health care, she is not.

He is against things like TPP - few actually believe her current position

He is for removing big money from politics, she's the spokesperson for a corporate finance political campaign.

Etc etc


His supporters all agree with this stuff btw ^^ which is why Sanders is inoculated from so many of his attacks. He can ONLY attack Bernie from the right. And no one thinks Bernie is corrupt. Unlike Hillary.

[OilemFirchen]

34. Not if he expects Republicans to vote for him.

But, given this ridiculous scenario, will he have your support?

[EdwardBernays]

38. You're wrong

He's saying this stuff at almost every chance and REPUBLICANS are voting for him. In fact that pretty much all who's voting for him.

He says universal Healthcare and the stadiums full of Republicans he's babbling at all cheer. The same thing happens when he trashes super Pacs. And tells everyone that Rubio and Bush are for sale.

People - Republicans - cheer.

I sometimes think this place is too much of an echo chamber. People really have no idea what Trump is saying. He says a lot of things left of Hillary. And a lot of things right of Hillary. And some insane racist shit... And some very patriotic shit.

He's not a typical Republican. Which is why they're freaking out. And why so many love him.

I would NEVER vote for him. But at least one poll had 20% of Dems saying they would. The current polls show almost 1/3 people saying they won't vote. And guess who that helps.

This is one of the biggest problems with candidate Hillary... Trump is the perfect storm for her career.

She seems fake. He seem real.
She's the ultimate insider. He's the ultimate outsider.
He's self-financing. She's taking money from banks and lobbyists.
He was against Iraq and Libya. She was for both.
He wants universal health care. She wants Obamacare.

They both flip flopped positions. So she can't attack on that.

They're both in the top 1%. Another wash.

She can't call him corrupt because so many think she is.

She can't call him sexist because of Bill.

Etc etc.

And she is a candidate that vast numbers of Republicans have been eagerly waiting to vote against for decades. Plus he has energized his base. And he gets all his media for free. She'll have to keep going back to Wall St and hedge funds.

[OilemFirchen]

40. No.

The majority of Republicans are voting against him. Look at the exit polls.

[EdwardBernays]

43. No.

The exit polls say no such thing.

He got twice the number of votes as Cruz and Rubio in Nevada.

[OilemFirchen]

46. Nope.

Trump received 45.9% of the popular vote to Cruz and Rubio's 45.3. It's no secret who won the establishment Republicans and who didn't.

[EdwardBernays]

49. ???

Cruz and Rubio don't get to add their votes together.

Trump beat BOTH of the establishment candidates. And got basically twice the sort of either.

I find it quite odd that you're adding vote totals together.

Cruz is not an establishment candidate either... well, he IS, but his SUPPORTERS think he's an outsider and vote for him as such.

Annnyway.

[rockfordfile]

53. Trump is a far right republican pos

He has said really nothing. Not surprised that he has a chance to be the republican nominee.

Trump is a racist and fascist. The republican party is a racist and fascist party.

He's not for any of those things like Universal healthcare. That's just lip service. The republicans voting for him know that.

Again Trump is just another republican racist and fascist that speaks louder than the other pos republicans running.

[Jim Lane]

58. Republicans will turn out in droves to vote for anyone who's running against Hillary Clinton.

Clinton supporters discount current matchup polls because, they say, polls taken now don't reflect the Republican attack ads that will swing some independents away from Sanders if he's the nominee.

But there's another weakness with current matchup polls: They aren't good at assessing turnout in an election that's still more than half a year away. Clinton, as our nominee, will be a one-woman Republican GOTV machine.

[BillZBubb]

2. You can't be serious. She's not going to be facing a weakling.

Trump is not a media and debate weakling like lazyO.

Trump will have no problem debating Hillary. He knows the media and he knows how to hit people's hot buttons. He also comes across as "more likable", no matter how insane his comments.

[Andy823]

10. Trump doesn't know how to debate

He knows how to con the brain dead GOP base, the racists, the tea party nuts, the white supremacists, etc. If he gets on a stage where the person he is debating doesn't allow him to make comments like "I know people and you'll see it will work just wait you'll see", he won't know what to do. He had it made taking down the GOP morons that were running, and he was able to bully them into submission. I really don't think he will come off that well against Hillary or Bernie, whoever wins the nomination. The vast majority of American people are as stupid as the GOP think they are.

[BillZBubb]

44. "The vast majority of American people are as stupid as the GOP think they are."

A Freudian slip there my friend! But it is the truth, that's why we had two terms of w bush and r reagan.

Trump is media savvy. I don't underestimate him like so many here on DU.

[Amishman]

57. all he knows is how to make smartass comments

but unfortunately with the multitude of zero information voters out there, that still gets him a lot of support

we should not assume a Trump nomination is an automatic won election

[OilemFirchen]

15. That's just silly.

Lazio was quite competitive. If he was a "weakling" it wasn't evidenced in the polls at that time.

You think that Trump will come across as "more likeable" in debates with Clinton? Sure. How did that work out for Lazio?

[BillZBubb]

45. Your response is not just silly, it is delusional.

The OP is about debates. It has nothing to do with lazyO's standing in the polls.

lazyO was TERRIBLE in the debate with Clinton. His one amateurish, boneheaded ploy blew up in his face. He was weak in the debate--a weakling. And of course, because of his foolish physical intimidation attempt, lazyO was immediately not likeable. Trump is very media savvy, he won't make rookie mistakes like lazyO.

[tallahasseedem]

4. Hillary will eat him alive during the debates...

She's been through and has been through far worse.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. She can trip him up

Eventually he's going to say -

Back in the 1990's I had THIS or THAT or things were so good - let me tell ya about how I made money . . . .

This is her husband watching the debate:



And on stage HRC goes -

I got this babe!




ETA - Meanwhile at the white house

[Hortensis]

7. Great pictures, lol. She's worked so hard,

I hope Trump's her opponent. And ours. We have a lot of offices to flip.

[TheUndecider]

29. I once thought nominee Trump would be awesome

Now it scares the hell out of me. His cult of personality and bumper sticker policy positions have a lot of impact on low information voters, and we all know he loves the poorly educated.

[Hortensis]

37. LOL. As I reported in another post, he is actually

a weak GOP candidate who is drawing maybe half (likely less) of the kind of people you would expect his messages to appeal to. He looks better than he is because conservatives have been turning on the other candidates, many of his "supporters" actually using him as a big middle finger salute to the GOP.

[ffr]

36. Damn straight! If Dems keep showing up for our candidates like in NV

It'll be a complete sweep.

NV Caucus goers: Dems trounce Reps by 12%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1064143

[Nevernose]

51. 48% of NV didn't show up for her

They showed up for Sanders. A lot of those people will just refuse to vote.

There's just SO MUCH VITRIOL against Clinton. Some of it is well-deserved and some of it is hysterical nonsense. Either way, I think Clinton's supporters are strongly underestimating the negative polling about her. Even many hardcore Democrats don't like her, and we're acting like independents are going to swing her way?

I don't dislike Clinton, for the record. I'm just feeling super pessimistic after watching one-fourth of my state's electorate actually being called uneducated by their own candidate and then CHEERING for their own dumbness. If that's not some Idiocracy stuff there, then I don't know what is.

[Hortensis]

59. Well, if some people won't turn out to choose

between 2 acceptable candidates, let's see if more of them come out to vote AGAINST the GOP candidate. And how many pubs stay home this time.

Two dinner guests last night, one a highly educated man with years working on development projects in various countries and little tolerance for Trump idiocy and the other an NRA gun nut and Trump supporter. Fortunately, the guys have fishing in common and after casting gingerly into the political waters spent the rest of the time talking about bass and grouper.

One positive note -- Our Trump supporter seemed to like him most for his "independence" because he felt the others serve only the wealthy. I heard that general idea from some people last week, too. It's possible they just think it's more respectable than admitting to liking the rest, but it was clearly in their minds.

[OilemFirchen]

28. One for the collage:

[JustAnotherGen]

42. And Michelle just sighs

[Glimmer of Hope]

6. What is the story behind this pic?

[leftynyc]

8. That's Rick Lazio

during a debate when he was running against Hillary for the NY Senate seat. He was closing in on her in the polls until that debate when he walked across the stage and got in her face about signing some document (honestly don't remember what it was) and he immediately died in the polls. Came off as condescending and brutish at the same time. That was all she wrote for Rick Lazio.

[Glimmer of Hope]

11. Lol! He should have known better. What an idiot.

[OilemFirchen]

25. That was literally the specific moment when Lazio lost the election.

The epitaphs are everywhere.

Now imagine a beet-faced Trump screaming "Yer stooopid!" at a composed Clinton multiple times during each debate. He is unfiltered and she is unflappable.

Ultimately, voters are influenced viscerally, by tone, optics and demeanor. It's one of the many reasons that the Republican establishment is markedly worried by a potential Trump candidacy.

[JustAnotherGen]

9. Ditto leftynyc

He was just AWFUL! AWFUL!

[closeupready]

12. If this post demonstrates the level of analysis from her campaign strategists,

she's going to come in second, once again, for SURE.

[OilemFirchen]

16. Wait. You think I'm a Clinton strategist?

[Yo_Mama]

17. Really. This has nothing to do with the coming election.

Nothing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. You really do not get the level of anger at the establishment

Trump will be the nominee and if Dems stubbornly nominate an establishment candidate (hey it is your party, I am just one of the 43 percent your party ignores regularly as well, independents), get used to saying President Trump.

[OilemFirchen]

18. And you don't get that this angst is concentrated on the extremes.

The majority of voters - those who will elect the next President - would vote for an Obama third term without hesitation. There are always malcontents. The only election in my lifetime where they were a factor was in 1968. This is not 1968.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Again you ignore this at your peril

You should look up where independents are regarding Clinton. By the way they are the true king makers.

And you are right, this is not 1968. The more that I think about it 1824 seems more apt.

[leftynyc]

20. You think it's going to

get thrown to the House? There were 4 candidates in 1824 - that's why nobody got the majority of electoral votes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. No, but both party establishments will not

Like the end result. End of gravy train for both

[stevenleser]

24. Not enough anger to get numbers as high as Obamas in 2008 and less than 35% on the GOP side.

That's not particularly impressive anger.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

14. Although this is going against my own rule about GD:P talk in GD, I'll still offer my own $0.02:

If indeed Hillary will be our nominee (and I'll reiterate the fact I will gladly support either of our candidates against whomever the Republicans spew forth), I'm a little comforted by her chances despite her perceived flaws.

It's true she's viewed by some as something of a cold, political machine, calculating more than feeling, ever ambitious to a fault, and her speaking skills come off sounding a bit robotic.

Here's the thing though. If she's our nominee, it won't be just her.

First, automatically we'll get another Clinton, and this one's a hell of a political speaker, warm, emphatic, with every bit of Hillary's intelligence but a very human, approachable element to it.

Then, Hillary will get to pick a Vice President. If she's smart, she'll choose someone fresh and dynamic. Perhaps Julian Castro, maybe Martin O'Malley. So long as it's not a Lieberman wet blanket type, I think it would help, whoever we choose.

Finally, we'll also have the incumbent President at our disposal. I think he's more than proven his chops and his durability over the years to the point I think he's comfortably an asset on the campaign trail. After all, he has been elected and re-elected, so he knows the game. And while the far right may refuse to admit that we are in a much better position now than in 2008, most other people in America will recognize that fact. So again, he's an asset.

So on our team, we have:

1. Hillary Clinton
2. Bill Clinton
3. The Vice Presidential nominee
4. Barack Obama

I'll take that team's chances against Trump.

[leftynyc]

23. Me too

Great post.

[ohheckyeah]

50. Agree.

[SheilaT]

26. First off, what makes you think he'd bother to debate her?

Or that he'd do it more than once.

His campaign will consist of attacking her, brutally and unfairly, make the worst possible comments about her, her appearance, and anything else he feels like dumping on. It will be incredibly awful. And she will have a hard time battling back. Sure, she could try to make fun of his comb over and his weirdly orange skin and his several wives, but he won't give a shit about that, and he'll then redouble his attacks on her.

I shudder to think what the campaign will be like.

[OilemFirchen]

30. Of course he'll debate her.

To not do so will be a swift and sure death to his campaign.

BTW, I'll be attending the first debate here in lovely Dayton, Ohio. I plan to enjoy the shit out of it.

[hollowdweller]

31. Trump will smash Clinton.

She won't even know what hit her.

First all her paid speeches along with her SOS dealings will allow him to cast her as pay to play.

The middle east situation and Iraq war vote will allow him to question her judgment.

"This lady didn't even know her old man was having sex under her nose in the White House. How can we expect her to sniff out terrorist plots"

IMO Hillary has the money and the connections to win. Sanders is doing her a disservice by not brutally attacking her like Trump will.

Trump will beat Hillary on trust and FROM THE LEFT.

And all that doesn't even factor in the email thing. We dont' know what's in there that could hurt her. Look at Edwards, he had fatal problems.

[leftofcool]

41. You sure have a lot of trust and confidence in Trump

[BillZBubb]

47. Geez, some people who don't have their heads in the sand don't take him lightly.

It has nothing to do with confidence in trump. Keep playing silly word games though.

[thereismore]

33. You have yourself a nice dream! nt

[OilemFirchen]

35. Okay.

[Timmy5835]

39. Bring up the pay issue

Trump thinks American workers are payed too much. They should expect a pay cut to remain competitive.

[BillZBubb]

48. We have a lot of ammunition to use against trump. He's got a lot of ammunition to use against us.

It is going to be one nasty campaign.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. We can Romney him...

I'll bet you think that's preposterous but it isn't...

How many people lost their jobs when his casinos went bankrupt? They will make for great commercials...


How about the people who paid to attend his online college, Trump University, and got useless pieces of paper? They will make for great commercials.


I might have "misunderestimated him." He's a formidable foe but he's not ten feet tall...

[forthemiddle]

52. Two names

Ventura and Schwartzeneger.........

Need I remind you both happened in extremely liberal states. Don't underestimate (or overestimate) the logical reasoning of the American voter.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. Trump is a formidable foe but he's not ten feet tall!/nt

[Separation]

56. Keep dismissing Trump

The republican party still arent taking him serious and he will probably sweep super Tuesday. They are going to dismiss him up to the point of the convention when they are going to ask themselves, "what just happened?". They are going to look around like they have just been robbed.

This is what I will say, if Hillary is the nominee, or Sanders. They better take him dead serious, or they to will be looking around come November like they have lost their pants.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

60. After Trump's row with Megyn Kelly I wouldn't rely on perceptions of being ill mannered

towards women to be a saving grace.

[OilemFirchen]

61. That's an interesting observation.

I do believe, however, that the dynamics are vastly different. Completely different audience and expectations in a GE debate.

Like I said, I doubt that these will be the contenders. I hope so, but suspect it'll be Clinton vs. Rubio - a realistic scenario that should cause much more grave concern.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

63. I'll wager people like Megyn Kelly more than they like Hillary Clinton.

[TBF]

62. Yes she will own him in debates - BUT he'll still win -

because his base is not intelligent. They have been trained to hate - and they especially hate Hillary Clinton. There are plenty of reasons why progressives do not care for her but it is nothing like the irrational hate you will see from the right wing. You folks know this - at least many of you should - if you remember the 90s at all. I hope the super delegates consider this before pushing her through. What a spectacle this whole election has become. Everything that is wrong about this country up there front and center.