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HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:47 PM Feb 2016

Women Who Wear Pants: Still Somehow Controversial

Just ask a flight attendant. Or Hillary Clinton.
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2016/02/women_wearing_pants_are_still_controversial.html

"Female flight attendants at British Airways just spent two years fighting for the right to wear pants on the job—and they finally won. The airline crew’s union, Unite, celebrated the triumph earlier this month, saying, “Female cabin crew no longer have to shiver in the cold, wet and snow of wintery climates, but also can be afforded the protection of trousers at destinations where there is a risk of malaria or the Zika virus.” Good news all around! Unite also declared, “Not only is the choice to wear trousers a victory for equality it is also a victory for common sense.”

But wait. Isn’t the equal right to make the common-sense decision of wearing pants a victory that women had already won? (At British Airways, trousers have been accepted wear for established crew since 2003, but the airline has applied different rules to attendants hired since a set of strikes in 2010.) Why are we still talking about women’s right to pants? Like many of women’s battles, pants-related activism stretches back centuries and continues with no sign of abating in the present day.

In America, the first women to seek pants also sought power. In addition to suffrage, 19th-century feminists such as Elizabeth Cady Stanton advocated what they called “rational dress,” a costume with a short skirt over loose trousers that was pioneered by the activist Elizabeth Smith Miller. In 1851, Amelia Bloomer famously defended the pants against social ridicule in her newspaper, the Lily, the first “ladies’ journal” in U.S. history; thereafter, both the clothes and their wearers became known as “bloomers.” But the fashion’s run was short-lived. As Kathleen Cooper has noted in her excellent short history of women and pants at the Toast, “Prominent feminists were more concerned with gaining women’s rights than dress reform, and most of them dressed like ‘ladies’ to avoid detracting from their main cause of securing the vote.”

...

When will we be finished advocating for women’s right to wear pants? Doesn’t men’s right to wear skirts deserve some love after all these centuries? At the Toast, Cooper suggests, “Men’s skirts are in the ‘ridicule’ stage now, just as trousers were on women 150 years ago.” Celebrities like Jaden Smith and Jared Leto have signaled an interest in this fashion-forward cause. Meanwhile, I fully intend to wear pants on my next flight, and I hope the crewmembers will have the option to do the same."



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52 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Women Who Wear Pants: Still Somehow Controversial (Original Post) HuckleB Feb 2016 OP
Old ideas die slowly struggle4progress Feb 2016 #1
Oh, goodness. HuckleB Feb 2016 #4
"We really move our tails for you." Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2016 #2
I often wear a kilt -- much more comfortable. n/t Dale Neiburg Feb 2016 #28
I've been fighting endlessly for years to get women out of skirts..or pants underpants Feb 2016 #3
Thank you for your service gratuitous Feb 2016 #14
And in doing so, continue to advertise your character. LanternWaste Feb 2016 #50
This kind of has more to do with social programming, in my view davidn3600 Feb 2016 #5
With us Millennials skirts are still gendered, but pants are not, anymore. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #25
The pants thing, I've never understood at all. Rex Feb 2016 #6
Oh, that reminds me... HuckleB Feb 2016 #7
Shorts!!!! Rex Feb 2016 #10
Southwest Airlines, Hot Pants Jim Beard Feb 2016 #49
At my last job, the CEO decided that nurses needed to wear consistent uniforms Warpy Feb 2016 #8
Yikes. HuckleB Feb 2016 #9
In most hospitals, if there's an issue with different types of staffers being confused... backscatter712 Feb 2016 #13
Yeah, it's not too difficult to accomplish. -eom- HuckleB Feb 2016 #19
And those nurse ratchet get ups are ultimately not sanitary nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #15
We were less kind about it Warpy Feb 2016 #17
They are still used nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #18
My mother wore them her whole career. malthaussen Feb 2016 #21
My mom told me they had different caps for different schools. Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2016 #31
I wore the whites and cap also Mojorabbit Feb 2016 #34
Not in critical care Warpy Feb 2016 #22
I am thinking abroad mostly nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #23
I worked pcu and icu and wore my whites and caps back in the stone age. nt Mojorabbit Feb 2016 #35
IMO a lot of this "confusion" is just old people ignorantly assuming that the man is the doctor... Odin2005 Feb 2016 #26
While I'm Sympathetic RobinA Feb 2016 #43
We solved it for them Warpy Feb 2016 #48
I frequently go out "in the field" to large facilities MissB Feb 2016 #11
+1,000 ... 000 HuckleB Feb 2016 #12
Was she some kind of Fundie kook? Odin2005 Feb 2016 #27
I HAVE HAD IT WITH THESE MTHFN PANTS ON THIS MTHFN PLANE Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #16
A great story, circa 1969: malthaussen Feb 2016 #20
+1,000... 000 HuckleB Feb 2016 #36
Ahhhh.... RobinA Feb 2016 #44
As a 30yo millennial I can't believe this is still an issue. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #24
I am 55, raised fundy Runningdawg Feb 2016 #29
I remember when we were first allowed to wear "pantsuits" (not just slacks) in valerief Feb 2016 #30
I had to wear a dress every day to school for 12 years. Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2016 #32
I had to wear dresses to school from 1949 to 1962. kskiska Feb 2016 #37
This was in South Texas, and we had hard freezes occasionally. Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2016 #38
In the 80's I was sent home from a temp job because I wore pants.. Glimmer of Hope Feb 2016 #33
Thank you qwlauren35 Feb 2016 #39
There are a few qwlauren35 Feb 2016 #40
I'm always shocked when I see a reference on DU noamnety Feb 2016 #41
It is just bizarre. HuckleB Feb 2016 #42
My guess is that she wears pants for the same reasons TexasBushwhacker Feb 2016 #47
Most of them look pretty cool, but I don't know if she picked out this one or her fashion peeps snooper2 Feb 2016 #52
I hereby call for a boycott of all pants. Orrex Feb 2016 #45
Well, skinny jeans, anyway! HuckleB Feb 2016 #46
Except For That Guy At The NBA All Star Game. . . ProfessorGAC Feb 2016 #51
 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
2. "We really move our tails for you."
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:59 PM
Feb 2016

Yes I remember that.

I think men should have the right to wear kilts, especially if they have nice legs.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
50. And in doing so, continue to advertise your character.
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 04:07 PM
Feb 2016

And in trivializing an actual concern, you continue to advertise your character, regardless of smilie.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
5. This kind of has more to do with social programming, in my view
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 07:26 PM
Feb 2016

It would be quite controversial if male flight attendants showed up in skirts. Perhaps even more controversial than if women showed up in pants.

What dictates gender-based dress habits is social traditions and culture. When we grow up we are told, "Men wear this.....and women wear that..." and that's how we grow up. It's what we become accustomed to. When we see women wearing something men usually wear (or vice-versa) we stare and find it strange and out of place.
The point here is the culture is what determines this. And our ideas of what constitutes feminine or masculine clothing is taught to us by society, parents, and the media. We are all born naked. We don't come out of the womb knowing ties are for men and skirts are for women.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
25. With us Millennials skirts are still gendered, but pants are not, anymore.
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 03:23 PM
Feb 2016

Sure, there are pants designed for men and pants designed for women, but for us "pants" as a general thing are completely unisex. Even us guys are completely mystified by rules not allowing women to wear pants.

Warpy

(111,283 posts)
8. At my last job, the CEO decided that nurses needed to wear consistent uniforms
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 07:43 PM
Feb 2016

because his mommy couldn't tell the difference between a doctor in scrubs and a nurse in scrubs, even though each had introduced him/herself to her and was wearing a name tag, besides.

Doctors wanted us all in starchy little white dresses with caps. Every single one of us said we'd quit. Needless to say, the doctors did not get their wish.

Honestly, I am so sick of this shit.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
13. In most hospitals, if there's an issue with different types of staffers being confused...
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 01:54 AM
Feb 2016

...they solve that problem with different color scrubs - doctors may wear blue scrubs, while nurses may wear green scrubs or something.

Making them wear "Nurse Ratched" dresses sounds utterly ridiculous.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
15. And those nurse ratchet get ups are ultimately not sanitary
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 02:36 AM
Feb 2016

Yes kids, has to do with the starch.

malthaussen

(17,205 posts)
21. My mother wore them her whole career.
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 01:04 PM
Feb 2016

You could tell where the R.N. took her training by her cap.

-- Mal

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
31. My mom told me they had different caps for different schools.
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 04:00 PM
Feb 2016

Because her cousin had a Master's degree from Yale University in nursing, and she had a navy blue stripe on her cap. She also had a Master's degree in Public Health and a BS in Chemistry from Incarnate Word College in San Antonio. She helped me with my chemistry homework in high school.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
34. I wore the whites and cap also
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 07:01 PM
Feb 2016

for years and years. Before I retired we had graduated to scrubs. I did miss wearing the cap though.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
26. IMO a lot of this "confusion" is just old people ignorantly assuming that the man is the doctor...
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 03:25 PM
Feb 2016

...and the woman is the nurse. My grandma, a former nurse, gets confused like this when she has been hospitalized and she still has trouble comprehending the concept of male nurses.

RobinA

(9,894 posts)
43. While I'm Sympathetic
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:21 AM
Feb 2016

to the problem of going into a hospital and not knowing who is who, there are certainly ways of solving the problem without returning to the '50's.

Warpy

(111,283 posts)
48. We solved it for them
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:56 PM
Feb 2016

and we kept our scrubs with white scrub tops and white lab coats. It was a compromise that kept us comfortable and covered when we were doing things on the floor.

Any man who insists women wear dresses should have to wear them, himself. They are simply impractical for real work.

MissB

(15,810 posts)
11. I frequently go out "in the field" to large facilities
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:27 PM
Feb 2016

to inspect or troubleshoot. I wear jeans, because the folks I meet with are wearing jeans, and I'd look out of place - and frankly prissy- if I wore anything other than jeans. I might be wearing a sweater instead of a tshirt but I'm basically ready to crawl into small spaces as needed.

So a few years ago I was out working for a few days troubleshooting at one location with someone from the federal government. She was appalled that I wasn't wearing a skirt like she was. Um, so you don't get out much do you, I asked. No, she was usually behind a desk. I could understand that but she went on about how women shouldn't wear pants.

I drank every night. She was a sweet lady but goodness she got on my last nerve with her outdated ideas of gender roles.

Early in my career I was used to men looking at me askew until I proved my worth in their world. But to run into such outdated thinking only a few years ago - from a woman- just really blew my mind.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
27. Was she some kind of Fundie kook?
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 03:30 PM
Feb 2016

Because the only people I know who have hang-ups about women wearing pants are extreme fundamentalist evangelicals.

malthaussen

(17,205 posts)
20. A great story, circa 1969:
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 01:01 PM
Feb 2016

Judy Carne, of Laugh-In, dared to wear a tunic and pants to a chi-chi NYC restaurant, and was turned away by the maitre-d' for wearing pants. So she stood right there in the foyer of the place and stripped off the pants -- and was admitted, since she was now wearing a perfectly-acceptable miniskirt.

Sumptuary tabus are stupid.

-- Mal

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
24. As a 30yo millennial I can't believe this is still an issue.
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 03:19 PM
Feb 2016

I've heard several stories of schools with school uniforms not allowing girls to wear pants, and many workplaces require women to wear high-heels

Runningdawg

(4,520 posts)
29. I am 55, raised fundy
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 03:34 PM
Feb 2016

my father died a few years ago. Up until then women wearing anything other than a modest dress were not allowed into his house.
His house, his rules, we met other places.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
30. I remember when we were first allowed to wear "pantsuits" (not just slacks) in
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 03:47 PM
Feb 2016

the office place. We all bought matching polyester jackets and pants. They had to match, else they weren't considered pantsuits.

I can't remember when it was okay to wear a blouse and slacks (as opposed to a pantsuit). I think by the mid-70s. It also depended on how big/conservative the employer was.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
32. I had to wear a dress every day to school for 12 years.
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 04:03 PM
Feb 2016

They didn't let girls wear pants to school when it was cold until several years after I graduated.
I graduated from high school in the early 70s.

Needless to say, I got to college and it was jeans and t shirts all the time for years! I was SICK of dresses.
My mother was furious with me for not wearing makeup (which to her meant red lipstick) and not wearing dresses. I had to explain to her that we didn't have formal dress balls like they did in her day (the 1940s).

kskiska

(27,045 posts)
37. I had to wear dresses to school from 1949 to 1962.
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 11:51 AM
Feb 2016

We lived a mile from my elementary school and there were no buses. This was in New England, and even in the coldest weather, or in the snow, I had to walk to school. I'd wear wool slacks underneath my dress, removing them at school. In junior high, boys weren't allowed to wear jeans. The purported reason was because the rivets would damage the school furniture.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
38. This was in South Texas, and we had hard freezes occasionally.
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:22 PM
Feb 2016

We used to have about four hard freezes in Jan and Feb. and it would get in the 20s for a couple of days and then thaw.
I had to wear a dress from 1960 to 1972. Then in high school when we would wear a long dress to school, they tried to ban those, and I can't figure out why unless it was controlling us, and that that was considered hippie.

qwlauren35

(6,148 posts)
40. There are a few
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:25 PM
Feb 2016

people in this thread who seem to be dismissing this issue, and not understanding its impact. Pants are practical; long dresses, dresses below the knees, or dresses which restrict the parting of legs (unlike kilts) are not practical. What does it say about a society that does not want women to wear practical clothing? It means that they will be restricted from certain jobs.

Now, on top of this, try to envision the difference in warmth between a short dress and long pants in 0 degree weather. Why is it more important to be "pretty" than practical? Under pants, you can wear thermal underwear. Under a dress, at best, you can wear tights. I'll take the thermals.

I went to Catholic school in the 1970's. Until the doors opened, the kids hung out outside. Some days it was cold. There was nothing to do, unless you were the type to run around... and girls had to wear skirts with no pants.

I know there are more men on DU than women, and some men just can't see that clothing is a feminist issue. No, it's not up there with abortion rights, or fair pay, but it's an issue.

One that men really don't have to deal with. So please, let us women rally and cheer for this victory, those of us who know what it was like to wear skirts in the cold, those of us who wanted to take long strides but could not, those of us who understood that women wearing skirts weren't supposed to have dirty jobs, and therefore, were ineligible for certain career opportunities.

It's the lack of understanding that I see in this thread that makes me understand why it is SO important to women like Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright that Hillary is running.

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
41. I'm always shocked when I see a reference on DU
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 10:27 PM
Feb 2016

to Hillary's pantsuits as if she is defined by the fact that she's female but wears a suit with *gasp* pants.

I'm for Bernie all the way, but that shit still makes me mad. I've been wearing pants for 50 years, when is it going to stop being an issue???

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
42. It is just bizarre.
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 10:36 PM
Feb 2016

The issues should be plenty. Leave the sideshow nonsense to the other "party,"

TexasBushwhacker

(20,204 posts)
47. My guess is that she wears pants for the same reasons
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 01:46 PM
Feb 2016

I do.

1) I have never had great legs. At 59 and overweight, I really don't have great legs. If she wore skirts, she would probably get comments about her legs rather than her pants.

2) I think high heels and pantyhose are a Communist plot. You can't really look stylish in a skirt without wearing heals. At unless you are blessed with the perfect skintone to go without stockings, you either have to wear pantyhose or get a spray tan.

Personally, I mostly wear long flowy skirts because they are cooler in Texas' hot summers. But I admit they don't look as professional as a tailored skirt or pantsuit.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
52. Most of them look pretty cool, but I don't know if she picked out this one or her fashion peeps
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 04:47 PM
Feb 2016

Like she is saying-

Set Phasers to Stun!




ProfessorGAC

(65,081 posts)
51. Except For That Guy At The NBA All Star Game. . .
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 04:36 PM
Feb 2016

. . .who did that amazing dunk with skinny jeans on.

So, no skinny jeans unless you're wearing them to dunk a basketball.

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