Eliminate the cap! (SS)

[Cassiopeia]

I'm tired of hearing Hillary's ideas on adjusting SS retirement ages based on hard work.

I've worked really fucking hard my entire life. I've worked through the hottest, humid, sunny days. I've worked through the coldest, windiest, snow covered days. I've worked my ass off.

I'm fucking tired of hearing that how hard someone works will determine retirement age, while the fat assholes that make tens of millions per year only pay SS on 100k or so of income. They've never worked like so many have.

An SS tax that has NO CAP will not hurt the top 10%. The top 1% won't even notice. The top .1% should be tipping more than they will pay out.

Why should anyone be means tested for SS before everyone pays in their fair fucking share. If the top 1% don't like it, they can fucking leave!

[Hoyt]

1. We might not like the 1% or whatever, but you really don't want them to leave.

Tax em, but making them leave would not be smart. Would you increase their benefits if you tax them an additional 12.5% a year for that?

[Cassiopeia]

3. Why?

I get taxed on my total income yet receive shit benefits. Why should somebody already at the top of the game already get more?

Edit to add.

Your 12.5% number is bullshit. Employers pay half that and you know it.

[metroins]

21. A lot of the high income earners

Are the employers....

I think the cap should be raised, but 12.5% is likely more accurate than 6.25%.

It's also called SECA for self employed. You can tax deduct.

[Cassiopeia]

22. If you're making over $118,500 a year

paying SS taxes on $130K a year isn't going to hurt you.

If paying in SS at $130k/yr won't hurt, then paying in at any wage higher than that won't hurt either.

Nobody in any region of the country struggles at a wage of $119k/yr. They may over spend, but they NEVER struggle to live.

[metroins]

24. I never said it would hurt

I earn over 600k a year.

I don't mind paying a reasonable tax

[B2G]

35. Bullshit

"Nobody in any region of the country struggles at a wage of $119k/yr. They may over spend, but they NEVER struggle to live."

[Cassiopeia]

41. Oh?

Nobody struggles through life at $119k per year. They may put themselves in debt, but they never struggle to find a meal. NEVER.

[B2G]

43. So that's your benchmark?

Anyone who doesn't "struggle" to find a meal is living on easy street and living beyond their means?

Sad.

[Cassiopeia]

44. No, but it's certainly a point

that they can't whine about paying into the system.

[former9thward]

46. Employers do not pay it.

S.S. costs are part of labor costs just like wages. An employer has a certain limit that they will pay for labor costs. So when they "pay" their half they are simply paying labor costs that otherwise would go to the employee. People who think they "pay" anything out of their pocket have never been in business.

[Fuddnik]

6. Fuck 'em.

We should have a MAXIMUM wage law, and nobody allowed to accumulate more than a pre-ordained multiple of that.

Otherwise, confiscate their wealth and eat them. I'm so sick of whiney rich people.

[Hoyt]

10. Obviously, you have no idea what that would do to jobs, industry, healthcare, welfare, SS, etc.

I guess you are going to finance and/or run major companies that pay the best wages.

With that said, I have no problem regulating and taxing the heck out of them. In fact, I'm fine with them making even more money, as long as we tax them to the max.

[emsimon33]

14. Where would they go where they would pay less in taxes? A third world country?

Give me a break. They have already off-shored trillions of dollars where it can't be taxed. Too many of the .001% are simpoly greedy psychopaths and we would be better off as a country without them.

[Hoyt]

20. Well increasing their taxes 12.5% for Social Security, for Medicare for All, for education, etc.,

would place our tax rate well above most, if not all, major countries in the world. Not opposed to dramatically increasing taxes. But there is a point where it hurts the economy, jobs, etc.

Actually if you looked, taxing offshore money would only raise $70 Billion a year, at best. While that might help bring down the deficit a bit or provide money for education, it won't do that much for you or me directly. Yes, it ought to be taxed, but you don't want to push it further away either.

[emsimon33]

51. Why is it not OK for them to pay the 12.5% but OK for the rest of us?

And the company pays half, so for most it wouldn't be that high.

Further, even if it were, 6.25% or 12.5% may not be as much money on a $40,000-a-year income as it would be on a $12,000,000 annual income, but living om what's left over for the person making $40,000 a year is far more difficult than living on what's left over for the person make $1,000,000+ a year.

[YOHABLO]

23. Are you kidding? The 1% ain't goin no where. Most go anywhere they want in the world now.

You think they're going to leave the f...ing Hamptons, or their mansions on the west coast? I live in Atlanta, and man you should see the homes (might as well be palaces) on the north side. My god it's ridiculous the money that's in this metro area. Oh hell no, the 1% love living here. They may move their companies to Mexico,(by the way Carrier Air Conditioning etc .. is moving their company to Mexico in case you haven't heard .. boycott.) but they'll always call the U.S. home. (Maybe I should have thrown in the surrounding counties of Washington D.C., where the richest of the rich reside in the U.S. All that lobbying money from defense contractors etc. Come now, leave? Let them move to Norway or Sweden .. they'll tax the sh...t out of them.

[awoke_in_2003]

45. Another reason they won't leave

they own the politicians here, and if they move they will have to buy another set.

[annabanana]

39. guess what.. there already not "here"

They may nominally CALL themselves Americans.. But hey are citizens of "I do whatever the fuck I want, wherever I want, whatever way I want and to whoever I want"

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

48. Yes, increase their benefits, if it makes them happy

The more you earn, the more SS you get. But it's not a straight-line proportion. If you put twice as much as me into the system, you will get maybe 25% more out than I do. It's a progressive thing.

So remove the cap, and let the 1% make a few points more than the current max payment. It will still help the solvency of SS

[lamp_shade]

2. Say what???

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/social-security-and-medicare/

[Cassiopeia]

5. I guess you've not listened to your candidate

who is open to raising the retirement age, BUT allowing people who "have worked hard" to still retire at the current age.

That's called means testing.

Maybe you should actually listen to what Hillary is campaigning on and what her platform is.

[lamp_shade]

8. Link?

[Cassiopeia]

9. OFFS

oh for fucks sake.

Have you watched the damn debates? She's said it in several of them.

[Hoyt]

12. This is what she has said:

"Thirdly, we do have to consider ways to make sure that the funding of Social Security does maintain the system. I think we have a number of options; this would be something that I would look at, I would not favor raising the retirement age. And I don’t favor it because it might be fine for somebody like me, but the vast majority of working people who have worked hard and have had a difficult, maybe last couple of decades trying to continue to work, it would be very challenging for them. If there were a way to do it that would not penalize or punish laborers and factory workers and long-distance truck drivers and people who really are ready for retirement at a much earlier age, I would consider it. But I have yet to find any recommendation that I would think would be suitable.

"And I want to look at raising the cap. I think that’s something we should look at how we do it, because I don’t want it to be an extra burden on middle-class families and in some parts of the country, there’s a different level of income that defines middle class. So what do we skip and what level do we start at? And we have to consider that. So those are my three priorities in looking at Social Security."

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/10/hillary-clinton-indicates-she-is-open-to-raising-the-retirement-age.html

[Cassiopeia]

13. Really?

You can listen to/read that statement and feel secure that Hillary will protect the retirement age, much less the entire system?

If there's a way, she would be behind it. That's not a risk I'm willing to take.

and edit to add.

Fuck that regional shit. Someone making 125k a year in the center of NYC can pay SS on wages at 150K. they can cover it without worry. they may need to skip a martini or two every now and then, but fuck 'em, they CAN afford it.

[Hoyt]

15. I feel as secure with her as someone who who promises stuff he's not likely to deliver.

[Cassiopeia]

17. I'll take my chances with a failure to deliver on positives

over the risks of someone open to negatives.

[emsimon33]

18. I would rather get 10% of Bernie's vision than the lies and triangulations of Hillary

She is merely a puppet.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. Obama? Public opion promised, not delivered. 'No mandates' promised, full mandate delivered....

Lots of promised dates for being out of Afghanistan that saw us still in Afghanistan. Obama spoke of raising the cap as well. As candidate, then never again.

Show me a President that did not speak of many, many plans and achieve only some of those plans. Show me President 100% and then we can talk.

Oh. And I bet you don't earn over that cap you want to protect anyway. You pitch for someone else's benefit.

[emsimon33]

16. How about starting with ending the cap

Next have the government pay back the $1.3 trillion they took to fund their wars so that they would not have to have the very wealthy and corporations pay their fair share. Since Congress has treated SS as a tax, everyone should have their entire income considered in their SSDI payment. Additionally, increase the minimum wage to at least $15 immediately as this will increase tac revenue.

[dumbcat]

36. Where would the government get the $1.3 trillion

you want them to pay back?

[Cassiopeia]

42. Ending war

taxing those that stole it for war.

That would be a damn good start.

[emsimon33]

52. We could start with raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans

Next, we could cut the Pentagon's budget by at least 25%. Why do we have all those bases all over the world. Let Europe pick up the tab for a military rather than US tax payers having that burden. I could go on. The point is that why are older Americans being demonized for wanting the money that they put into Social Security to be spent on them rather than on wars that benefit only those who are already in the top .001%. Tax the .01% and up for the war. Tax Wall Street speculators. Tax the banks.

[global1]

28. 'Look At' Or 'Look Into' Are Hillary's Code Words For....

not doing anything.

[tokenlib]

11. Just go to Third Way's website..

Hillary's words don't mean a damn thing..she's in "me too" progressive verbiage mode for the primaries. You have to see the Third Way positions to know where she really will go..

[emsimon33]

19. Agreed. All anyone needs to do is to really look at her record, not the myth but the truth

She sees us all as proles. She uses people for her own ends, such as using Flint as a photo op.

[Fuddnik]

4. Back in 2006, I was doing oppo research for a congressional campaign.

I asked our Republican incumbent opponent about eliminating the cap.

She said that would require Congress to vote to raise their own taxes, and there's no way in hell they would vote for that.

Typical, greedy politicians. They'd rather fuck everybody else, than pay a little more in taxes.

[Cassiopeia]

7. Sadly

many would rather keep the cap because....

SOMEDAY!11!!11 they're gonna be rich too!

There is no need for an SS cap. It's only a desire of the 1%.

[Live and Learn]

25. You are wrong. Us, little people are simply lazy, otherwise we would be rich.

[erlewyne]

27. Eat snow

When I was a kid and we ran out of day
old bread (we picked the green spots out)
we could always eat snow.

Got drafted for a made up war back in `67.
Cleared less than $50 a month divided by 200
hours. Had to pay SS and buy a war bond ($10 mandatory).
Got room and board though.

The 1% were all disabled.

[CharlotteVale]

29. She scares me.

[Vinca]

30. The SS fix is so easy it's ridiculous: raise the cap.

I love the way politicians are eager to raise the retirement ages for people who do actual work. They've got theirs, what's it matter that the brick layer will be toting heavy loads on his worn out knees until he's 68?

[ProfessorGAC]

32. And They Didn't Even Raise It From Last Year

An indication, i think, that the government knows nobody is actually getting much more money this year than last.

But, that also suggests there is something unnecessarily sacrosanct about having a cap. They didn't even raise it year over year.

[Snarkoleptic]

31. Means testing gets the camel's nose under the tent for those who seek to undermine SS.

Doing so makes SS an entitlement, rather than an earned benefit, which can lead to the 'very serious people' toying with the program a lot more easily.

[Nye Bevan]

33. Someone who earns $100 million pays the same SS taxes as someone earning $150,000,

but receives the exact same benefit check when they retire. Seems fair, and is a major reason why SS has survived as long as it has.

[Arazi]

34. +10 million! So obvious eom

[NaturalHigh]

37. Righteous rant there. K and R.

[alarimer]

38. The easiest fix is to raise the cap.

And it wouldn't even have to be that much, either. Just make sure it goes up a little every year and the problem should be fixed. So it means some otherwise wealthy people get to collect SS. So what? Yank up their taxes in other areas and you've more than offset what they could possibly earn in SS benefits.

[YoungDemCA]

40. Paying more in taxes for the same amount of benefits doesn't seem like it would be popular

Among the people affected by the raising of the cap. And just FWIW, there are a lot of Democrats who make over $100k a year. IIRC, that's not the top 1% of the income distribution - more like 15%-20%. That's a lot of people. And they're already paying a lot in taxes, especially if they earn most of their income from wage/salary income. Ever heard of the Alternative Minimum Tax?

Furthermore, the idea that high incomes should be "confiscated" is disturbing to me, on a number of levels. A better approach, IMO, would be to appeal to the self-interest of higher-income Americans, reminding them that they too benefit a lot from the services that taxes pay for, and that a functioning government needs adequate revenue to survive.

[shanti]

47. for some reason

she simply ignores this. has bernie ever mentioned lifting the cap?

[closeupready]

49. Yup. Eliminate cap, problem solved.

But as others here have observed, it would mean members of Congress would need to raise their own taxes, and they aren't going to do that.

[hakko936]

50. I agree, but....

.....I don't know that it should be at the same rate and it should also be applied to investment income.

Actually, I would like a tax that is applied to ALL income, regardless of source, with no deductions for anything. You could do it as a graduated tax like we have now, but just make it simple.

%0 of $0 - $X
5% of $X - $X
10% of $X - $X
......you get the point.

If the money comes in, you pay the tax. No deductions for mortgages, kids, etc. It is nice an simple. The money we would save would be incredible and everyone would pay their share without being able to hide the money. Roll SS and Medicare tax into it. It would be one tax structure for everything regardless of source. Lower incomes would pay less and the ultra rich would pay much more.