Refugees among gang caught on video dancing, singing in Arabic as they rape unconscious teen

[leftynyc]

A couple of Iraqi asylum seekers are among a group of seven young men arrested after sickening video footage emerged in Belgium of an unconscious 17-year-old girl being gang-raped while the men danced around her, singing in Arabic.

Police say the girl was plied with vodka and doesn't remember what happened.

Four men and three boys between the ages of 14 and 25 were arrested -- two Belgians and five Iraqi immigrants, including the pair of recent refugees.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/05/refugees-among-gang-caught-on-video-dancing-singing-in-arabic-as-they-rape-unconscious-teen-says-cops


Europeans are going to DEMAND their governments close their borders until they come up with a vetting process - I don't blame them.

[get the red out]

1. I don't blame them either

Though I'm sure that there will be people who think the welfare of women and girls is a small price to pay along the way of helping refugees.

[zazen]

2. I don't blame either n/t

[bdwker]

31. Where are they now ?

IN HIDING IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY !!

[leftyladyfrommo]

3. That's awful.

Europeans can't be expected to tolerate that behavior.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

4. What the fuck?!

These stories, at least the second, are so incredible they seem made up to turn the government against the refugees. That's not a "don't take the rape victim serious" statement. It's a "Really, they are seeking political asylum and showing gratitude by raping women? Incredible!" statement.

[leftynyc]

5. Actually, these stories

were kept under wraps for as long as they could get away with it for just that reason. The first one was reported by a teacher.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

6. Wow. Just wow.

[gyroscope]

10. BBC: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women

City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime".
The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046

[tabasco]

7. Ship 'em back to whatever shithole they came from. n/t

[hifiguy]

8. If the Euro left doesn't respond to this shit

The hard right will be the huge winner. Letting in anyone other than women, children and families was imbecilic beyond words, making this kind of outrage inevitable.

[Ms. Yertle]

15. Many of the Euro left

were understanding and supportive when the women said that of course they sent their young men first--to make sure it was safe for their mothers and sisters, and to get jobs and places to live, etc.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. So you are saying they are refugees from war and death who are not sure if Belgium is safe relative

to Syria? That does not really make sense.
There are about 15 million refugees in the world, 10 million in persistent refugee situations, meaning parts of a massive group displaced for more than 5 years.
Have you ever seen a refugee camp? I have. I'd leave one to go almost anywhere.

[davidn3600]

9. "She can't complain. Women must obey men," one reportedly told police.

Welcome to the new multicultural Europe!!

[hifiguy]

11. But all cultures are equal!!!

How dare anyone complain, you bigot, you!

[Arazi]

27. Oh my god!!!

There is so much wrong there

[linuxman]

12. Nothing to see here.

Move along.

[pampango]

13. Greece can't close its borders to refugees since its islands are so close to Turkey.

The real question is "Should Europe process then house the genuine refugees in Greece long term (with a few entering willing countries) and deport the others. Or should other willing countries accept and process asylum seekers?"

Whether it is just Greece or not, laws have to be implemented effectively both to protect citizens from some criminal asylum seekers and to protect refugees from right wing vigilantes. Most citizens are welcoming to refugees and most refugees are good people. Most laws are designed to deal with the minority who are criminals and that is the case here.

[leftynyc]

23. Greece can't afford to

keep these people in Greece and should be under no obligation to do so just because they're close to Turkey. They have problems of their own.

[pampango]

24. Indeed Greece cannot afford that which means they need massive help

to process asylum seekers and refugees, deport those who don't qualify and support those who are determined to be genuine refugees. Europe has to decide whether to fund Greece to handle this or to allow asylum seekers to go to other countries for processing and/or resettlement if they are real refugees.

International law does not allow a country like Greece to simply immediately deport people claiming to be refugees. The question then is where do they stay until their refugee status is confirmed or rejected.

And conditions in the refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan are deteriorating as more people arrive and international funds fall short of promises.

[leftynyc]

25. If nothing is done to protect European citizens

or even if it LOOKS like nothing is being done, the far right will clean up in every single country. Then the borders will be closed. The EU MUST come up with a plan that protects their citizens FIRST - a better and more comprehensive vetting process - single men getting in the back of the line - something that looks like they care about their women. There are simply too many of these stories to ignore them any longer and given the economic conditions in Europe, catering to refugees will destroy the left.

[pampango]

32. None of us wants the far right to gain because the left 'caters to refugees' or to the poor or

to immigrants or to anyone else whom the far right does not like. OTOH, I don't want to fight the far right by adopting their policies in order to keep them out of power so they cannot implement their policies.

I do agree that if the far right does 'clean up' they will close the borders. They have been wanting to do that since long before the refugee crisis and now have the perfect justification. They will also not worry about a "comprehensive vetting process". It will be guilt by association and see you later. Law-and-order is something that the right is quite good at. People will feel safe. Police states are good at that.

The left must indeed come up with a vetting system that meets international law and respects the security and rights of everyone involved. Drawing a line between helping refugees and 'catering' to them is an important distinction. If the left abandons the refugees, the right will not lift a finger for them.

I trust the left in Europe to learn from their mistakes and solve problems than I trust the right to use fear and hatred to provide simplistic solutions to complicated problems.

[leftynyc]

37. The left can't NOT do something

merely because it's what the right would also do. If they continue to ignore the problem they will DESERVE to lose. And it has to start with a vetting process.

[pampango]

48. IF the left ignores the problem, they will deserve to lose. I trust the left is not stupid and

can learn from its mistakes - something the right seems frequently incapable of doing. I will not promote far right solutions just because I want to keep the far right out of power.

And it has to start with a vetting process.

That is a liberal solution. I agree with it. That is not what the German AfD party nor Marine le Pen or Geert Wilders, among others on the right, are proposing.

[leftynyc]

60. But I also believe

they need to STOP allowing people in UNTIL they get a vetting process. They also need to account for every single person they've let in so far and have a process in place to find them. If they are found with forged ID's, deport them IMMEDIATELY.

[JPnoodleman]

99. Shengen agreement is almost certainly done for as is. /nt

[leftynyc]

102. Another policy that sounds good

on the surface but is ripe for abuse.

[pampango]

137. If that happens, and it might, the right will have cause to thank the refugees after all.

The right in Europe has been against Schengen and the EU for years but have not been able to defeat either. Perhaps the refugee crisis has changed that.

[JPnoodleman]

140. Eh, The Europhiles destroyed their own project in that case,

The Euroskeptics have been on the march and building for awhile but the generally pro-EU side has essentially not just botched things with unchecked mass migration, they have been caught lying about migrant crime waves and these stories and been revealed to be essentially engaging in ideological censorship and control.

All the Conservatives have to do is ... well to quote Tyrion Lannister, "You don't cut out a mans tongue because he is a liar, you do it because you fear what he has to say." The Left screwed the pooch badly on this. I will be critical of my own side, many on the European left are pretty openly denying reality and for ideological reasons. This is never a good idea politically.

[Yo_Mama]

74. The numbers are a problem. Germany alone had at over a million purporting to be

refugees at least pass through last year.

Greece is a country with about 11 million population. They can't handle it. There is no way their infrastructure can handle the situation, and no way even with massive aid it can handle the situation. Since most of the actual refugees are coming through other countries, they are not, by international law, entitled to refuge in Greece.

International law doesn't say that a refugee can travel on to a country of their choice.

But Turkey has millions of refugees already. They can't handle it either.

I think the sheer numbers are undoable for Europe under their current system. I don't see any way it can be handled.

And many of these people aren't entitled to refuge, but can't be deported. I have been reading Austrian, French, Italian, Danish and Swedish newspapers, and they all say that they are going to start deporting those not entitled, and then in the next breath it turns out that they can't, because the countries of origin don't want them back. A Swedish government official said they are going to deport at least 60,000 of those who came last year. The response to that statement was a statement by the immigration people that they can't.

This is a rather horrible situation and I don't see how it will get better.

I think this is past a European problem. It's an international problem that needs a massive UN intervention. This is partly economic and partly a result of wars, but without suppressing the war in Syria as a beginning, how does this situation improve or become more manageable?

The Syrian population is about 23 million, or was. The population of Afghanistan is about 30 million. The Eritrean population is about 6 million. The Moroccan population is about 33 million. The Tunisian population is 10-11 million. If 5% of those populations try to head to Europe, that's five million people.

Then add Iraq, Pakistan (non-negligible numbers there), Libya, and multiple African nations with current civil wars or bloody religious/ethnic conflicts. There is no way generally for the host countries to accurately distinguish between refugees/better life migrants.

Huge numbers of people coming into Europe are refusing to even register in the first country they enter. The Germans conducted raids of several refugee shelters just to register and fingerprint some. Many of these people are destroying their identity documents, so if they are refused they can't be deported.

There is no good way to handle this, but the current situation is not viable either.

[geek tragedy]

114. There needs to be an exit strategy. If there is no plan for expelling those who commit

crimes, are otherwise a bad fit, or aren't legit refugees, close the border.

[pampango]

123. I agree. From what I read, they have an exit strategy, a plan to deport those convicted

of crimes and those who are not genuine refugees. If liberal governments did not have those things they would indeed not be able to govern a modern country like Germany or Sweden.

[geek tragedy]

134. To where do they deport them? They have rules about sending

people back to places like Syria and Iraq.

[pampango]

136. Agreed. They probably won't deport many people to Syria and Iraq. That would be a death sentence

for many of them. And people from those countries are more likely to be genuine refugees.

I am not sure what the vetting process is like but it would be hard to believe that they would decide that very many people fleeing Syria are not real refugees. There are millions of them in refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. It would seem to me that they would not send back someone to Iraq if they were from the western part of the country occupied by ISIS but someone from other parts of the country could be sent back.

They are much more likely to deport people from countries like Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. Most of those are probably not genuine refugees.

[saturnsring]

14. On Friday, the government approved a plan to combat Islamic radicalism and the threat of extremist v

On Friday, the government approved a plan to combat Islamic radicalism and the threat of extremist violence by hiring 1,000 new police officers over the next four years.

[Ex Lurker]

16. That'll show them we mean business

[pampango]

22. That is the kind of thing that liberal governments will have to do if they are to govern

effectively without resorting to right-wing alternatives like a police-state to enforce law-and-order or enforcing collective guilt for all asylum seekers for the actions of a few.

I've read many articles concerning enhanced policing in Germany in the past few weeks. If liberal governments do not acknowledge their mistakes and correct them, the right will take over and eliminate the liberal policies themselves.

[jonno99]

29. "If...governments do not acknowledge their mistakes and correct them..." -

Politicians acknowledging mistakes?!

(in my best "Paddy O" voice)
Methinks you're more likely to see angels fly out of me arse!

[leftynyc]

64. You think 250 police a year

is going to stop this madness? I sure don't. It's time to bring the hammer down and show there are severe consequences for this kind of behavior.

[pampango]

66. Of course not. Do you think that is the only change in policing that Germany is undertaking?

I am sure you know better than that.

It's time to bring the hammer down and show there are severe consequences for this kind of behavior.

What would constitute 'bringing down the hammer'?

[leftynyc]

68. Not only arresting them

but NOT releasing them right away. Deport those who have served their sentences. Make it plain, ON ARRIVAL, what behavior is expected and what will not be tolerated. Far too many have abused the open door policy.

[pampango]

70. Agreed. I don't know what German law says about jailing people who have been arrested pending

their trials but refugees should not receive special treatment.

[romanic]

18. I bet the victim was a white girl

using her whiteness to trap thosr poor oppresed men into raping her. What a bigot.

[Floridanow]

95. Race is irrelevant. The men were filmed

Raping the teen.

[clarice]

19. I soooo wish I was there when that was happening...meet my little friend. nt

[clarice]

20. Has NOW issued a statement yet? nt

[Sunlei]

21. 6? more drunk refugees to deport back to dry countries.

after they are charged with their crime.

[Fla Dem]

86. Drunk you say? Drunk! I thought Islam forbid drinking liquor, never mind raping girls. nt

The Prophet Muhammad also instructed his followers, at the time, to avoid any intoxicating substances -- (paraphrased) "if it intoxicates in a large amount, it is forbidden even in a small amount." For this reason, most observant Muslims avoid alcohol in any form, even small amounts that are sometimes used in cooking.

http://islam.about.com/od/health/f/alcohol.htm

[jonno99]

26. "She can't complain. Women must obey men..." What's to discuss? They'll fit in nicely...

[MrsMatt]

28. And a 10 year old Austrian boy was raped

by an Iraqi refugee who cited that it was a "sexual emergency" since he hadn't had sex since September.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/devastated-mum-boy-10-raped-7331602

[Aerows]

46. That is horrific.

An Iraqi migrant has admitted raping a 10-year-old boy at a swimming pool in Austria because he had not had sex in four months and it was a “sexual emergency”.

The 20-year-old man is accused of attacking the boy in a cubicle of the Theresienbad swimming pool in Vienna, telling police he had “followed his desires”.

The victim had to be hospitalised following injuries inflicted by the suspect, who worked as a taxi driver after arriving in Austria via the Balkans in September, and who has a wife and daughter back in Iraq.

After the attack, the suspect left the cubicle and went to enjoy himself by springing from the three-metre-high diving board while the victim alerted a lifeguard, Austrian newspaper the Kronen Zeitung reported.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/12144039/Iraqi-migrant-admits-raping-boy-in-Austrian-pool-after-having-too-much-sexual-energy.html

He rapes a 10 year old boy brutally, and then acts as though he did nothing wrong. Rape a kid that resorts in the kid being hospitalized, and hey, it's time for a swim! Didn't even try to leave the scene of the crime, just assumed all was well now that his sexual desires had been fulfilled.

That mentality of "whatever I can take or do, I'm entitled to it" is the problem.

[get the red out]

53. Trust

A lot of people entering other countries as refugees aren't doing much to promote trust. These crimes are horrific.

[leftynyc]

63. I'm trying to wrap

my brain around his "following his desires" leading him to rape a child - and defending himself because he's horny. Either jail him immediately or send him back to Iraq - after allowing his wife and child to come over because he's obviously a fucking animal who can't control himself.

[arcane1]

77. Raised in a sexually repressive culture that teaches men all of their impulses are god-approved...

and that men are powerless to resist any urge.

Men in these cultures are given the same status and excuseablility that infants get. "They can't help it!" and variations on that theme.

[JudyM]

100. Castration candidate.

[Carolina]

186. My thoughts

exactly!

[JudyM]

189. At least chemically, if not physically. It's the only way to discourage this, IMO.

[hifiguy]

80. That POS should have his

dick chopped off. Emergency my shiny metal ass.

[JudyM]

101. And we'd justify that as a civic emergency.

Betcha if they started doing that there'd be a lot fewer sexual emergencies and other rapes.

[leftstreet]

85. Rape is not sex. The asshole had a 'violence emergency'

psychos

[Liberal_in_LA]

96. horrific

[840high]

162. WTH?

[bdwker]

30. Where are those signs that say "Rufugees Welcome" ?

buyers remorse ?

Maybe the US should take them in? /sarcasm

[Shrike47]

33. Appalling. How about refusing entry to all single males between 10 and 40. That would help.

[jonno99]

34. No, becuase the prevailing "wisdom" is that the men should come over first, get a job,

and thus pave the way for their families to come over once they are established (or something to that effect).

In theory that sounds good. I mean, what could go wrong?

[leftynyc]

35. That MAY have been the

prevailing wisdom but given the circumstances, it should be the exact opposite. If I were a woman in a European country accepting thousands of unvetted refugees, I would be screaming from the rooftops and I wouldn't stop screaming.

[jonno99]

39. We are in agreement...nt

[Aerows]

41. I would be, too

Women aren't safe in their own damn countries anymore because of all of these entitled migrants believe that what ever they can take by force, they have a right to it.

Why is there so much violence in the Middle East? It's precisely because of the attitude that might makes right. Add in that cultural mores are so incompatible, not to mention the religious aspect to it, and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

It is by no means all of the men and women who came from these countries. The problem, however, is that if it is even 2% of them, there are so many of them that 1 or 2% is a hell of a lot of potential problems.

[get the red out]

57. Thank you!

You are speaking the absolute truth.

[Ms. Yertle]

56. I saw video of someone saying just that

and now I can't find it.

What is your source? There is someone on this thread who doesn't believe it.

[Quantess]

128. You cannot be serious right now. "Get a job"?

Why on earth would they need a job when they get generous welfare in many european countries? I know I may sound like right winger right now, but we're not talking about life in USA, we're talking about European immigration policies here.

[EllieBC]

36. That's what the Canadian government is doing.

They haven't given actual age groups but the government has said no single men.

[Aerows]

43. The Canadian government

is handling this in a very sensible manner.

What in the hell were European leaders thinking when they opened the floodgates? Anyone could have predicted this is exactly the sort of thing that was going to happen.

[EllieBC]

45. Proximity and geography?

We are over here. You can't get here easily. We had the privilege of time and distance to make a plan.

[lancer78]

82. They were thinking

"We don't want to look racist" or " We have to do this or people will say we are causing another holocaust".

[leftynyc]

90. While their hearts may

have been in the right place - it's time to stop worrying about the guests and start worrying that their own women don't feel safe. That may include actions and processes that some may find objectionable. I live in NY and wouldn't dream of opening my door without knowing who was on the other side but that's what Europe did here and it has to stop.

[Dorian Gray]

168. I may have predicted

unemployment and petty crime for the new refugees, but gang rape?

This is so sad and Heartbreaking.

[get the red out]

54. Exactly

I don't get it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

55. So young single males, the kind of people most attacked in a war, should all be refused?

Wow - you'd even refuse a 10 year old boy. That brush you're wielding is mighty broad.

I thought people had agreed that assuming all men are rapists was wrong. Or, for that matter, that the moment someone marries, they become much better people.

[geek tragedy]

116. Men & boys are many times more dangerous than women and girls.

A large number of men without marriage/dating prospects is a very, very bad thing.

[muriel_volestrangler]

117. Discrimination, when based on prejudice, is also a very bad thing

Discrimination against boys who you are pre-judging, on the basis of gender alone, is particularly repulsive. You're an adult, they're a child, but you're blaming them for what adults do.

[geek tragedy]

118. Boys grow up to be men, and will do what men do.

If they've been raised with a particular mindset, that's generally the kind of man they'll become.

[muriel_volestrangler]

119. Half the world were (or are) boys

Now you're bringing a mindset into it. A moment ago, their mindset didn't matter at all - you wanted to exclude all boys or unmarried men.

Are you a man? What do you do?

[geek tragedy]

139. I was raised by two feminist parents who abhor violence and discrimination.

That is generally not something that can be said for men/boys from that part of the world.

Europe in general has failed at all levels--culturally, socially, linguistically, politically, economically-- in integrating their regular, legal migrants.

10 may be too young for a cut off age. 13-15 probably makes more sense.

[muriel_volestrangler]

141. The US murder rate is way above the European one

Should Europe therefore ban all male Americans from staying in Europe, given the American failure to bring up their boys to abhor violence?

As far as discrimination goes, it's what you're advocating, as well as what you accuse men and boys from 'that part of the world' (I'[m not sure from where exactly you are proposing Europe should ban boys and men - Syria? Iraq? Anywhere in the Middle East? Anywhere in Africa too? South Asia?) of.

[Quantess]

142. Calm down. It's due to the fact that there are so many guns per capita in the US.

Get a grip on reality, and calm down, while you're at it.

[geek tragedy]

143. Are Americans seeking asylum or committing significant

numbers of violent crime inside Europe?

How many European women-Christian, Muslim or otherwise--wish their experience on the streets of Brussels or Berlin were more like the experience of women in Cairo?

[muriel_volestrangler]

156. You want to discriminate on the basis of the purpose of a visit too?

You're surely not saying that seeking asylum makes someone more likely to rape, are you? That if it was an young single Iraqi male who wanted to come to Europe to study, you'd be fine with them, but if he was fleeing for their life and asking for asylum, you'd kick him out?

No, I don't think you were. So, If you'd keep an Iraqi male student out of Europe because you don't trust their record of violence and discrimination, then the record of young American males is also crap. You'd need to keep Americans out too, if you're not being bigoted against certain ethnicities.

Then, of course, you'd need to get international law changed, to allow you to deny asylum to people you don't like. That, of course, is the elephant in the room so many DUers are ignoring. Countries have an obligation to give asylum to people who claim it on their territory. Canada is able to say "we won't invite single males to come here", because they're not about to cross the Atlantic anyway. But these asylum seekers cross a few miles of the Mediterranean, and they're in Europe, where international law says they can claim asylum. And the same international law forbids discrimination on the basis of gender.

Tell you what, start a thread saying you want Obama to advocate discrimination on the basis of gender in the UN, to get the world to agree to that. It will be interesting to see how many DUers are supportive.

[geek tragedy]

169. international law does not require borders to be erased.

As a threshold matter, they should not be allowed in unless it's plausible that they can be forced to leave if they commit crimes, are found to have ISIS sympathies, or are not legit refugees. There's no rule saying that those presenting the greatest risk can't be forced to the end of the line.

[muriel_volestrangler]

170. Now you're talking about something completely different

A moment ago, you were calling for all single men and boys from some age to be barred from claiming asylum, and the be summarily ejected from a country if found. Now you're asking for them (and, I presume, everyone claiming asylum, whatever sex, age of marital status) to be investigated about whether they're genuine refugees - which happens already, to investigate to see if they have ISIS sympathies (which might, I suppose, mean they're not at risk where they flee from; but you're going to have problems determining what 'sympathies' mean someone is safe in a war zone), and that it's plausible that they could be deported after a jail sentence. Again, international law does stop countries sending people to places they're at risk in (this has been used occasionally to stop extradition to the USA), even if they're criminals.

What do you mean by 'forced to the end of the line'? There is a rule saying you have to process asylum claims, and you can't force them out of the country while you're doing it. Yes, you might prioritise who gets dealt with, so some get residency or employment status earlier or later, but that hasn't really been the purpose of various DUers in this thread. People are talking about chucking them out of the country altogether - or having some way of blocking unmarried males but not others - presumably a Trump-style wall or armed sea patrol. Which is why it's so sad to see DUers stoop to this.

[appal_jack]

146. I agree with shrike47 & aerows, and am not ashamed to say it.

Last edited Tue Feb 9, 2016, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)

geek tragedy makes good points above as well.

By 10 years old, I was a bit of a hellion, but the difference was that I was raised from birth to respect women and girls, and otherwise acculturated into a western, secular, democratic society. So my boyish rebellion and hellishness was comparatively harmless. These refugees have not been raised as such.

Some of the rapists were 14. How many years might it take to undo patriarchal, rape-culture thinking? If the cutoff for male refugees is 10, then you've got four years of opportunity to acculturate them into Western Democracy. Is that enough? It's certainly better than letting in single boys and men 11-50. Older and younger than that, I can see, perhaps, with strict guidelines for their (and all refugees') behavior.

No, not all refugee boys and men are rapists, but too many of them are turning out to be, and no country in the world has an obligation to tolerate that. Opening your borders to non-citizens is an act of compassion, and citizens of these nations need to be free to set the terms and limits of this compassion.

-app

[muriel_volestrangler]

158. As I said in#156, start a thread calling for Obama to advocate discrimination in law

to get international law about asylum changed. Make sure to say it should apply to 10 year old boys because you don't trust them if they're from certain war zones, and you think they should stay there and take their chances.

[pampango]

59. I don't think international law allows limiting refugee status based on age/gender/marital status.

Perhaps international law should not allow single men to be refugees but, for now, it does.

[leftynyc]

61. Then let the UN

house them, keep track of them and take responsibility for their actions. Women and even a young boy are being assaulted and raped - I really don't give a shit what international law has to say when it comes to keeping a country's citizens safe.

[pampango]

65. The UN (UNHCR) has been running the refugee camps in Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey

for years but international funding is inadequate, conditions in the camps - never good - are deteriorating and, as the war continues in Syria - particularly with the bombing of Aleppo now - the numbers of Syrian refugees are exploding. The UN could run camps in Greece or elsewhere in Europe if Greece or the EU wants them to. Funding would be the issue as it always is.

[EllieBC]

89. I'm sure our PM is aware of international law.

He's trying to help refugees and keep Canadians safe and keeping his citizens safe should be his first concern. Hence the no single male rule. They could just say no refugees at all.

[appal_jack]

148. International 'law' has the power and prestige of a moldy turnip. nt

[Orrex]

113. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

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On Tue Feb 9, 2016, 07:31 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Appalling. How about refusing entry to all single males between 10 and 40. That would help.
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Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[closeupready]

144. Gross, but most of us know how a thread will be shepherded

when we see who started it, and who is dittoing, so there really should be no surprises here.

[Aerows]

38. They need to get control over this

"She can't complain. Women must obey men," one reportedly told police.

^ That statement right there is the root of this problem ^

It is a world view that is completely incompatible with civilized countries.

When summer starts and people start wearing less, it's just going to get even worse. A 10-year old boy got raped in a changing room by an Iraqi immigrant a couple of days ago, too. His explanation was that "he only did it out of sexual frustration."

[leftynyc]

40. Agree

Any culture where it's okay to rape anyone - including 10 year old children - due to sexual frustration has no place in the civilized world. And "women must obey men"? That just makes me want to hit something.

[jonno99]

42. Yes - we are looking a a clash of civilizations. My hope is that this conflict will

be resolved amicably.

My fear is that it won't...

[ProfessorGAC]

52. We?

We are looking for a clash of civilizations? Who is "we"? Seems like there is one side who has no interest in getting along.

[Yo_Mama]

71. In early December in Austria, wasn't it? The cops had kept it quiet - it was recently reported.

I sure hope there's only one of those. The poor kid was so badly injured he was hospitalized. The perp was captured swimming - he didn't even leave the facility after getting his rocks off.

[LiberalAndProud]

44. It seems to me that this behavior is born out of a culture who blames the woman for her own rape.

[center][font size="1"]It's in the text.[/font][/center]

[Aerows]

47. It's two fold

They believe that if a woman is raped, it is her fault, and that whatever they are strong enough to take, they have a right to it.

Horrible combination.

[bdwker]

50. Wait a second....

Are you saying Islam is a culture who blames the woman for her own rape ?

[leftynyc]

120. Are you aware that

in Saudi Arabia - there is no law against rape:

However, there is no penal code in Saudi Arabia and there is no written law which specifically criminalizes rape or prescribes its punishment. If the rape victim first entered the rapist's company in violation of purdah, she also stands to be punished by the law's current holdings.[2] In addition, there is no prohibition against marital rape or statutory rape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Saudi_Arabia

[Quantess]

129. Islam is a religion, and there are cultures within that religion,

some of which absolutely blame females for getting raped. Are you trying to suggest it isn't true?

[Aerows]

49. Here's another one

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/string-of-sex-attacks-reported-at-cologne-carnival-despite-heavy-police-presence-a6857381.html

Cologne police reported 22 sexual assaults on the opening night of the city’s annual carnival, an increase in attacks on last year’s event.

Of the offences reported at the Women’s Carnival Day, two were described as serious, with a woman believed to have been raped on her way home from the event, Deutsche Welle reported.

The other serious incident saw a female news reporter at the carnival being groped live on air.

As well as the string of sexual assaults, there were also 30 thefts reported as well as 143 reports of bodily harm, while 11 police officers were reported to be injured defending themselves.

We see what effect doubling the number of police officers results in - police officers getting injured, too.

[Separation]

51. Dont expect this to go away any time soon

Some people are saying that Europe may be dying just because of its slowing birthrate, with the exception of the UK. Europe was already heading towards a demographic catastrophe. There are certain places in Spain where more people are dying than being born. In Portugal, the population has been shrinking since 2010.

Now add an influx of tens of thousands of men from Iraq, Syria, Libya, and East Africa and you have a perfect storm. I recently saw one report where in the next 50-75 years a huge increase in Islam taking over Europe. I even saw a comment from a refugee stating that the Crusades were never fully over and that Islam will wait and wait, until its the prevailing power.

Now whether this is true or not, I dont know. It does seem to me however that this could be the perfect storm over there.

[mwrguy]

130. Europe truly is dying

They need an influx of millions of new citizens to breath life back into it.

[Separation]

145. That's the problem

Currently the only influx they are getting is refugees.

[Quantess]

149. No, it isn't. Europe is also getting a huge influx of economic refugees and fakers

taking advantage of the generous welfare system.

[Separation]

152. One in the same

Only in my opinion though.

[mwrguy]

151. They will be the new Europeans

populations are not static.

[EllieBC]

155. And you think the current Europeans are fascists?

The "new" Europeans will have little regard for silly laws about women, LGBT, and minorities having rights. But that's ok, right?

[mwrguy]

166. No, not at all. Most of them are wonderful people.

?itok=IuZtpEut






A minority is fascist, though.

[atreides1]

58. Europeans should make that demand

And their governments should honor that demand!

I was always taught, that when you are a guest, you respect your host and the rules of their house!

It's evident that certain people cannot act in a civilized manner and need to be repatriated back to where they came from!

[SoLeftIAmRight]

62. Bush and those who supported his war in Iraq have opened the way for...

generations of horror.

[Skittles]

92. hatred of women did not start with the war

[robertgodardfromnj]

67. I have no words

My God, how horrible! And I fear that there will be more of these terrible incidents in the future.

[Dems to Win]

69. Not a single left-wing politician in Europe demanding women's rights be protected

I expect the anti immigration AfD to win big in Germany's regional elections next month.

[romanic]

72. And right there, the European Left is exposed.

They threw women under the bus for male refugees in the name of "tolerance". The left will lose big in Germany and the right will swoop in and kick every migrant out.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

122. I'd guess that "kicking out every migrant" is easier said than done.

Even if you could "round them up", landing them on hostile shores would be an interesting operation.

[hifiguy]

78. Apparently they think it's more important

to make dirt-cheap PC virtue points than to protect their female citizens. "Revolting" hardly describes this mindset.

[pampango]

81. "Not a single left-wing politician"? Are you sure of that?

That seems highly implausible to me. It sounds like an exaggeration that the far-right AfD will use in an upcoming election against the left to show that only the right can really govern Germany.

[Dems to Win]

83. Huh? If you don't like my statement, Prove me wrong!

Give me a link to a left wing politician in Europe who IS standing up for women's rights.

[pampango]

88. Not sure this will change anything since, apparently, only the right stands up for women's rights.

“We’ve come to an agreement that will make it easier to deport criminal foreigners - and we will act more forcefully to deny refugee status to those asylum seekers who commit crime,” Justice Minister Heiko Maas of the left-wing Social Democratic Party (SPD).

http://www.thelocal.de/20160112/agreement-reached-on-deporting-criminal-foreigners

“After what happened during that night in Cologne, where young women in particular went through terrible experiences, we in the government are thinking intensely about what could be changed,” the chancellor said Monday. “We will reach conclusions very quickly.”

Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said he and Justice Minister Heiko Maas, a Social Democrat, agreed on a proposal that “sharply lowers the hurdles for the expulsion of foreigner who have committed crimes in Germany.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-11/merkel-says-response-to-terrible-sexual-attacks-to-be-swift

Not sure why I bothered. If you seriously want to believe that only right wing politicians care about women's rights, you will dismantle any list of left wing politicians who support women's rights by making it easier to deport those who have attacked women.

[Dems to Win]

106. See Post #74. They can't really deport them

Home countries won't take them back (they have far more people than jobs, are happy to get rid of people, especially troublemakers), home countries won't cooperate with issuing new passports to people who have thrown theirs away, EU law prevents putting people into detention while waiting for deportation, and laws prevent deporting people to countries that violate human rights no matter their behavior in Europe.

Once a person steps foot on German soil and claims asylum, Germany is stuck with that person for a long time, no matter what.

Since politicians know this reality, announcing minor tweaks to laws are not really solving the problem for Germany's women and girls, and they know that.

[pampango]

124. As you may (or may not) know Germany has recently negotiated return agreements with

Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia which is where most of the non-refugee migrants (and almost all of the attackers at the Munich train station) are coming from. Germany did this through a combination of threats (cutting off existing aid to those countries) and the promise of new aid.

Once a person steps foot on German soil and claims asylum, Germany is stuck with that person for a long time, no matter what.

Since politicians know this reality, announcing minor tweaks to laws are not really solving the problem for Germany's women and girls, and they know that.

If that were true, the right could not do anything about the situation either - other than beat the left up during the election.

Fortunately, the German government recently announce that there is something they can do about it. They will deport the criminals and the much larger group of non-refugee, economic migrants.

[branford]

135. The right could do many things, but their policies would unpalatable to many here.

Never forget that many of the obligations concerning the deportation of individuals claiming asylum or returning those coming from countries with poor human rights records are voluntarily assumed under various treaties or by domestic law. A right-leaning government could easily pass new domestic laws or withdraw from treaties. If the left doesn't solve the problems, such drastic policies choices will become increasingly popular in many EU countries.

Many countries could also seal their border to prevent any new migrants from entering and enact other laws and policies that make the lives of migrants miserable, including ending family reunification programs, reducing social and financial support, identification, work and language requirements, etc.

[JPnoodleman]

97. Its fairly true, the reaction on the Left to these waves of crime have been disconcerting,

Generally there is an aura of denial, ignore, pretend it isn't happening or in one case say "Well if we talk about it, think about all the boosts this will give to conservatives!?"

We serve nobody by lying to ourselves about whats going on around us.

[appal_jack]

150. Well-said. The truth will out. nt

[U4ikLefty]

73. The Toronto Sun is a conservative tabliod rag. You sure like to post stories like this.

I'm sure is NOT because you try to demonize Muslims all the time on this site...yeah, that's it.

[leftynyc]

75. Yawn

Attacking the source AND the person posting it - The tried and true bullshit response when there is simply no defense. Peddle your bullshit deflections someplace else and if you have proof this story didn't not happen - knock yourself out and post it. Otherwise I'll just assume you are also willing to throw women under the bus to prove how so very tolerant you are. Vomit.

[branford]

79. Part of the problem is that more liberal outlet often refuse to report

on negative stories involving migrants, no matter how horrific and usually with a wink and nod to their friends in the liberal EU governments, because it would might help the right.

However, the lack of reporting certainly does not erase the crimes, the effective cover-ups have led to an increasing lack of faith in government and law enforcement, and as the incidents become more numerous, more reporters are now willing to publish related stories. An already frightened public has become angry and will likely vote against the liberals who originally supported permissive migration policies.

You can attack the messenger all you want, but the story has been reported in other outlets and appears both true and outrageous. If the response by you and others is to complain about accurate reporting on the right and accusing people of racism, it's a poor electoral strategy, and you will also soon be complaining about how the right is winning one election after another and dismantling far more liberal achievements than just multiculturalism and refugee policy.

[pampango]

84. For some odd reason the right wing press is particularly adept at finding crimes committed by

refugees or asylum seekers. I am sure they are just out to publish the truth and have nothing against Muslims, immigrants or refugees in general.

Meanwhile the left wing press is engaged in a gigantic cover-up of crimes against women because the left cares more about vicious refugees than it does about native-born women. At least that is what the right keeps telling me.

[davidn3600]

87. Problem is, liberal sources won't report on these stories at all

Liberal sources didn't report on the Cologne incident until they had to. They were covering it up. Therefore, liberals sources aren't trustworthy either.

[Skittles]

91. please do tell us what the "liberal sources" are

[davidn3600]

93. Give me a break

Look how long it took the government and the media to report on the Cologne incident.

No one cared about the HUNDREDS of women that were attacked....the only thing the government and the media cared about is the public reaction towards the migrants.

[Skittles]

94. you mentioned LIBERAL SOURCES three times

so I assume you can LIST THEM

[leftynyc]

103. I'm sure it wont surprise you

to find out the stories about the liberal papers ignoring this until it became untenable to do so come from right wing sources - but I would think the LACK of these stories in liberal papers even after the news came pouring out is proof enough. Instead of scouring those stories to find out which papers were involved, I did a simple google search - "liberal papers ignore cologne rapes" - here were the results - take from that what you want:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=liberal%20newspapers%20hid%20cologne%20rapes

[Skittles]

107. I know how to Google

I want someone who whines about LIBERAL SOURCES to TELL ME WHAT THEY ARE

[Quantess]

111. Not sure if it is exactly the same in Germany, but,

in Sweden, most of the major newspapers call themselves "liberal". Aftonbladet is one worth mentioning, because Aftonbladet is particularly biased. They slant their reporting so it's amazing that it isn't more obvious to others. Metro is a free newspaper to read during your commute, and it is generally worthless and information deprived.

We really do get most of our news filtered and censored here! Not surprisingly, the Metro and Aftonblad are written at the lowest reading comprehension level. Compare that to the low reading comprehension of the RW American "news".

Syd Svenskan also calls itself "liberal", as does Expressen, and others.

[leftynyc]

112. Then you could find the answers yourself

But I'll play along with you on this:

According to this article:

http://www.politico.eu/article/cologne-puts-germany-lying-media-press-on-defensive-migration-refugees-attacks-sex-assault-nye/

A full week after the attack, the left leaning Süddeutsche Zeitung tried to say these were homegrown attacks

A report from one of the public radio stations had this to say:

SWR, the regional public channel, reported on the rapes but was quick to add: “The nationality of the suspects played an ‘insignificant role’ in the crime, investigators and prosecutors said.”

Here's Germany 2nd national broadcaster APOLOGIZING for their non-coverage:

After ZDF, Germany’s second national broadcaster, failed to report on the Cologne attacks in its primetime news program even after other national media had picked up on the story, the station’s editor apologized.

“The news was clear enough,” the editor said in statement posted on the station’s Facebook page. “It was a failure.”

Another forced to apologize: On Monday, Claus Kleber, Germany’s most prominent anchorman, apologized for recent remarks he made on ZDF equating skeptics of Merkel’s refugee policy to nationalists and xenophobes, saying he had been “negligent.”


Is that enough for you?

[Skittles]

172. I want to hear it from davidn3600

[leftynyc]

173. Then you aren't looking

for answers and are just trying to deflect from the problem that you now are well aware of and are still trying to deflect from. That makes you dishonest. You asked for the information, I went to the trouble of finding it with links to make it even easier but you are still ignoring it because you asked someone else for it. You are not worth the trouble and have helpfully given everyone watching all the information they need to know where you're coming from. You didn't even admit you were wrong after having all the links you could have asked for - that's pathetic.

[Skittles]

174. THIS HAS GONE COMPLETELY OVER YOUR HEAD

AND I AM TIRED OF THIS

*OVER AND OUT*

[leftynyc]

176. NO IT HAS NOT

You're just another trying to focus on the bullshit rather than what an open door policy has brought Europe. The evidence was there before I went to the trouble of finding it for you - the left media WAS trying to ignore this and when they couldn't do that anymore, they tried to downplay it. It's all there in the links. You want to deflect and I wont let you do that and now you're having a hissy fit about it. That's entirely your problem and like I said, I was just trying to make sure anyone reading knew where you were coming from. Now they do. My job is done.

[leftynyc]

115. Some more forced to apologize

for their slow response in reporting:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1022911/german-broadcaster-sorry-for-slow-reporting-on-mob-assaults/

German public broadcaster ZDF has apologised for delays in reporting on a wave of sexual assaults blamed on men of Arab appearance amid accusations Wednesday of media self-censorship of the inflammatory issue.

The rash of attacks and thefts in a New Year’s Eve crowd in the western city of Cologne was only widely covered by national media early this week, after police had initially reported no major incidents.

News editors of ZDF’s flagship “heute” (today) evening news programme apologised on social media for not reporting on the incidents at least in its Monday evening bulletin, four days after the attacks.

Here's the Guardian talking about the media's slow reponse:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

A ferocious debate has erupted in Germany over the handling of mass sexual assaults and muggings carried out by groups of young males during New Year’s Eve celebrations in Cologne, amid accusations of a police and media cover-up over fears of whipping up anti-foreigner sentiment in the wake of the migrant crisis.

[leftynyc]

138. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt

and assume you had to go to work or something and are not ignoring the information you DEMANDED. I mean, not one word about what happened to this girl but what was important to you was fighting the charge that the media (and the police, and the politicians) so obviously failed the women in Germany.

[JPnoodleman]

98. Its hard to convince people that some of us are misjudging the situations...

Politically the whole affair puts a lot of Left Wing activists in a bind.

I hate to go there but, had the events in Cologne been committed by White Ethnic German men it would have been on the front page of The Guardian that day. Laurie Penny, Clementine Ford, and Jessica Valenti would not be strangely silent and may even have mentioned it AS IT HAPPENED.

The problem is a lot of well meaning people hid an inconvenient truth for fear of the political ramifications of plausibly being wrong on something. Dishonesty will kill as as indeed it has in the general European public' eye. Who will they trust now? The Cops who admit the cover up migrant crime? The politicians who double down? or the Media that took weeks to report and admits to ignoring it, covering it up or just not caring? Or PEGIDA and National Front who at least are at least addressing reality.

[thereismore]

76. These criminals are really confirming all the fears and prejudices that Europeans have of young

Muslim men. Nobody should be surprised. They are following in their Prophet§s footsteps. It is not a question of culture, it is a question of religion that defines culture, politics and justice in the Muslim world.

[Bonobo]

104. I'm going to make a preemptive strike on the first idiot that compares this to Jewish

immigrants from Europe being hated, or to German Jews being attacked in pogroms, etc.

[leftynyc]

105. I don't blame you

There is nothing comparable to what happened to the Jews in Europe during WWII who were more than assimilated, had jobs, went to school and contributed to European society for a very long time when it was decided THEY were the problem. There is nothing like that happening here.

[Quantess]

108. A lot of the jews in europe are also facing increased harrassment from muslims.

The anti semitism is also on the rise in europe, and the culprits are mainly muslims.

[bdwker]

110. And thats why French jews are bolting France.

Who are the French going to blame when the last Jew leaves.

[leftynyc]

121. It's even worse than you think

The antisemitism in Europe goes all the way down the age groups and includes children:

http://www.jta.org/2016/02/08/news-opinion/world/anti-semitism-a-recurrent-problem-in-dutch-schools-govt-report-says

One female teacher of high-schoolers in Amsterdam told Kleijwegt that following a program about democratic values and against discrimination, a female pupil of Moroccan descent stood up and said: “If I had a Kalashnikov [assault rifle], I’d gun down all the Jews.” She then made shooting gestures and sounds.

Shocked, the teacher tried to make the student empathize with the Jews.

“I wasn’t getting there,” the report quotes that teacher as saying. “I asked her to imagine a 5-year-old Jewish girl who lives here. What would she have to do with Israel’s policies? Unfortunately, there was no place for empathy. The pupil didn’t care about that girl. She had only one message: The Jews should die.”

[Lee-Lee]

109. My dad said this weekend that he expects to see another genocide in Europe

And that unless this is brought under control it will lead to a lot of bloodshed and a new kind of crusade like wars where it is secular Europe vs Islam.

He said it will get so bad people will demand a purge of Muslims and they will either be killed or leave. Then that will lead so a perpetual state of war between secular Europe and Islamic nations.

He can be dramatic, but this is also a man who saw almost his entire family killed in WWII by the Japanese as they occupied the Philippines so genocide is not just some abstract concept to him.

[JPnoodleman]

127. I think trying to make a diverse bunch of ethnic nation states into ...

Cosmopolitan Mini-Americas but with better Social Welfare systems was not likely to work out.

[GOLGO 13]

125. Ship the single men or those without children back to whatever DMZ they flushed themselves away from

Children & women can stay. The GOP got the upper hand in this thing. We fucked this thing up something fierce.

[leftynyc]

132. The US did nothing of the sort

Our vetting process is NOTHING like that of Europe (which just opened the door and let everyone in). Only 2% of those granted refugee status are single men and it takes up to 2 years to be let into the US due to our rigorous screening process. Europe did fuck up but we (and Canada) most certainly did not.

[DetlefK]

126. "and said any refugee found guilty will be deported." - I have a way, way better idea.

First, let a court make a decision to deport them.

Then, jail them. For 10 years or so.

Then, take photographs and finger-prints.

THEN deport them.

[Lancero]

131. Here's a simple vetting process...

Women and children only. Should further attacks take place, then age limits against the committing gender can be implimented.

The MRAs would take offense to this, no suprise - They're delicate flowers the lot - but still, problem solved.

[leftynyc]

133. And I'd screen the women

completely also. Let's remember it was a professional woman who was let in on a fiance visa that shot up those people in San Bernadino.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

147. A single case is no grounds to do more than punish the culprits.

Some immigrants are rapists. Some people who are not immigrants are rapists.

The correct response to a single case like this is to punish the culprits (assuming the reporting is accurate and they are guilty), but to remember that it's not statistically significant and not to change wider government policy because of it, or to broad-brush entire demographics without evidence.

It's also possible that immigrants, or specifically people from certain cultures, are more likely to commit rape than others -. If so, that may be grounds for changing government policy. But it would need to be done on the basis of statistical evidence, not horrifying anecdotes like this one.

[guillaumeb]

153. What a surprise. Another Islamophobic hate post. Who could have imagined?

On the subject of gang rape:

The 2009 Richmond High School gang rape occurred on Saturday, October 24, 2009, in Richmond, a city on the northeast side of the San Francisco Bay in California, U.S., when a 15-year-old female student of Richmond High School was gang raped repeatedly by a group of young males in a courtyard on the school campus while a homecoming dance was being held in the gymnasium. Although seven people faced charges related to the rape, one was released after a preliminary hearing. Five of the remaining six face life imprisonment, should the charges be upheld, and one faces a maximum of eight years in jail. All initially pleaded not guilty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Richmond_High_School_gang_rape

Clearly Europeans should DEMAND their governments close their borders to AMERICANS until they come up with a vetting process - I don't blame them.

Next:

TWO college students have been arrested in the United States after allegedly gang raping an unconscious 19-year-old woman on a beach surrounded by hundreds of spring break partygoers who did nothing to stop the attack.
The rape occurred sometime between March 10-12 on a beach in Panama City, Florida, and was filmed on a mobile phone, which police discovered after investigating an unrelated shooting in Troy, Alabama.
In the footage, a number of men can be seen hovering around an incapacitated woman on a beach chair. The area is a popular spot for students on spring break, a traditional holiday for US college students.
“As she tries to remove their hands from her genital region, utterances to the effect of ‘she isn’t going to know’ can be heard from the men,” reports The Panama City News Herald.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/men-gang-raped-unconscious-19yearold-on-a-florida-beach-as-partygoers-watched-on-did-nothing/news-story/657c28eb9c486a2be92dd777a0fd8af0

Clearly Europeans should DEMAND their governments close their borders to COLLEGE AGED Americans until they come up with a vetting process - I don't blame them.

Next:

An American tourist was gang-raped while hiking on a Papua New Guinea jungle trail with her boyfriend. The 31-year-old woman and her London-native boyfriend were violently attacked while hiking along a World War II historical trail on the Kokoda Track.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2704547/american-tourist-gang-raped-in-papua-new-guinea-her-british-reality-star-boyfriend-feared-they-would-be-eaten-by-the-tribe-of-cannibals/

Clearly Europeans should DEMAND their governments close their borders to NEW GUINEANS until they come up with a vetting process - I don't blame them.

Next:

HARAMSALA: Two unidentified men allegedly gang raped a 46-year-old American woman in the tourist town of Dharamsala earlier this week.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/US-woman-on-first-India-trip-gang-raped-in-Dharamsala/articleshow/48993460.cms

Clearly Europeans should DEMAND their governments close their borders to INDIANS until they come up with a vetting process - I don't blame them.

Until I see posts denouncing rape generally I cannot believe that these informational posts are anything more than crude racist stereotyping.

[Quantess]

154. Which "race" would that be?

Muslims come in every skin color.

How old are you, anyway, 17?

[guillaumeb]

157. The racism referred to involves skin color.

Did you take the time to read my citations?

Do you excuse rapes by non-Muslims?

Do you excuse rapes by Americans?

Is rape a universal problem? If so, why do certain posters only seem to find rape behavior, and criminal behavior generally, when an Arab or a Muslim immigrant is involved?

I will await your explanation.

[guillaumeb]

163. I am truly impressed, but perhaps impressed is not the exact word.

I am appalled that you can ignore the very real worldwide problem of rape. Rape is not specific to one culture, one skin color. Your dismissive remarks do you no credit.

[LiberalArkie]

164. Results of hidden post

On Tue Feb 9, 2016, 03:12 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Yawn. You are obviously a 17 year old, or so.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7596717

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Saying a poster is 'obviously' 17 is an insult. So is saying they need critical thinking courses.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Feb 9, 2016, 03:17 PM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Rude and condescending. The whole response. So sick of this kind of thing. One of these insults maybe, but all combined makes it hideworthy.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I think Quantess is definitely describing themselves as "obviously a 17 year old" and needing "critical thinking courses". This Quantess may also need anger management classes
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yes, it is. We need to stop critiquing posters and critique their post only.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Disruptive post that does nothing to foster a healthy dialogue, nor does it address any of the points made by the poster that is being insulted.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Easily refuted in a response that "I'm much older than 17." Why resort to censorship?
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Rude. Hide.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[guillaumeb]

190. I agree with juror number 6.

I was not offended at all. I understand the passion behind some of the responses.

[leftynyc]

161. Yawn

What a surprise. Another supposed progressive who wants to pretend everything is honky dory and women are just being hysterical. And who the fuck HASN'T condemned rape generally (well, aside from those who find these stories icky and only whine about imaginary Islamopobia?). Careful, your disdain for women is showing. Has it ever occurred to you to wonder why there are so many of these stories to be posted? No, much easier to claim anybody posting them are haters.

[guillaumeb]

165. Perhaps you should do some research about rape. What I have read suggests that rape

is a universal problem.

Your attempt at deflection by suggesting that I am blaming women is totally unsupported by anything that I have posted. But in the absence of a valid counterargument I suppose that your deflection will have to do.

The anti-Muslim/anti-immigrant hysteria posted by some at DU matches anything to be found at any right wing forum.

[leftynyc]

167. I don't have to do research

I'm a victim of it myself. And anyone who wants to change the subject from women not feeling safe in their own countries because of a ridiculous open door policy to imaginary Islamophobia doesn't give a shit about women. PERIOD. If you think comparing all the women (and men) on DU who have expressed disgust and horror over what's happening in Europe to right wingers makes your argument better, you're pathetically, tragically and disgustingly mistaken.

[840high]

160. I don't blame them.

[Jim Beard]

171. This post doesn't make sense

"""" guillaumeb (4,374 posts)
153. What a surprise. Another Islamophobic hate post. Who could have imagined?

On the subject of gang rape:
The 2009 Richmond High School gang rape occurred on Saturday, October 24, 2009, in Richmond, a city on the northeast side of the San Francisco Bay in California, U.S., when a 15-year-old female student of Richmond High School was gang raped repeatedly by a group of young males in a courtyard on the school campus while a homecoming dance was being held in the gymnasium. Although seven people faced charges related to the rape, one was released after a preliminary hearing. Five of the remaining six face life imprisonment, should the charges be upheld, and one faces a maximum of eight years in jail. All initially pleaded not guilty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Richmond_High_School_gang_rape

Clearly Europeans should DEMAND their governments close their borders to AMERICANS until they come up with a vetting process - I don't blame them. """""

You see there is one difference, Americans punish the criminals as stated in your link. In many societies where the Muslims live, there is no society where they are punished.. There is no rational for your incorrect comparisons.

[leftynyc]

175. That's because

there is no comparison and the poster is just trying to deflect from what's happening in Europe right now as a result of an open door policy. It's a good thing I stopped giving a shit about being called stupid names and only roll my eyes at the obvious attempt to deflect. They aren't fooling anyone.

[BainsBane]

177. Sounds like a bunch of frat guys

[leftynyc]

178. Let me ask you something

If this HAD been a frat party, would you have gone on a thread about it and said "sounds like some recent immigrants? If not, why not? It would make just as much sense.

[BainsBane]

179. No

but clearly this has been cast as about immigrants and closing the borders to migrants. My point is that they are far from alone in this type of behavior.

[leftynyc]

180. It hasn't been "cast" as anything

THIS story IS about immigrants. Nobody brought up closing the borders except you and you bringing up fraternities was a pathetic attempt at deflection. Europe truly fucked up with an open door policy and to ignore that is not only to ignore reality but telling women they don't matter. Is that what your intention was?

[muriel_volestrangler]

181. Your OP: "Europeans are going to DEMAND their governments close their borders...I don't blame them"

That's your own words, in the first post in this thread. Can you not even be bothered to read what you wrote, let alone remember what your position is, or be honest about it?

[leftynyc]

182. I meant in the US

and the demand in Europe is coming in response to their ridiculous open door policy that just let everybody in without vetting them (which the US doesn't have so we don't need to close the borders). So, are you here to call me an Islamophobe? A hater? A right winger? It's been at least a day since I've yawned over one of those moronic charges. But thanks for kicking up the thread.

[muriel_volestrangler]

183. You didn't mean in the US; you claimed BainsBane brought up the subject

when you had - not in the US, but in Europe, explicitly. You're arguing in bad faith.

What I'll say is that you have no idea what the international law on refugees is, but that hasn't stopped you pontificating. How do you vet refugees for their likelihood of breaking laws, anyway? What probability of breaking laws would you give as a justification for saying "we have no evidence you have broken a law already, but we'll ignore that, and international law, and send you back to a war zone because we think you're the kind of person who will break a law"?

[leftynyc]

184. Ask the Obama administration

how they do the vetting process. Single men only make up 2% of those allowed status in the US - that's probably a good start. I honestly don't know how anyone can look at what's happening in Europe and think their open door policy is a good idea - criminals taunting the police saying they can't be arrested, finding people with several sets of identification papers and not arresting them. Because it's almost impossible to deport them back to a war zone, the answer is investigating their claims of oppression BEFORE they let them in. That can't possibly be a controversial process unless you don't give a shit about who comes in which would equal exactly nobody.

This story was about Europe. If someone else wants to change the subject, that's not my problem but again shows that some here will change the subject when I or anyone else posts any stories that make people uncomfortable. It happens time and time again from those dishonest enough to try.

[muriel_volestrangler]

185. It's you trying to change the subject; you're the first to talk about migration to the US

Everyone else is talking about migration to Europe, as your OP was about.

Again, you don't seem to have the faintest idea of what is happening in Europe. You seem to think it's the same situation as the USA or Canada, where the governments are inviting certain people, whom they can vet beforehand, to travel from the Middle Eastern refugee camps to those countries. In Europe, the refugees are arriving, mostly by sea, without anyone "letting them in". They're not waiting for an invitation, or asking anyone to vet them.

You could advocate a huge armed reaction in which European countries will physically push the boats back to Turkey, Libya and so on, with no regard as to whether the un-seaworthy boats sink or not, but, to your credit, you haven't done that. But that would have to be how to keep them out. Once they've arrived in an EU country like Greece, or Italy, some other EU countries, like Germany, are saying "OK, let them come through to here" - which is just as well, because Greece is in no position to host a million asylum seekers, financially or in terms of room. If the rest of Europe had insisted the asylum seekers all stay in the first bit of Europe they set foot in, then Greece would be in complete chaos.

If the world had spent more on the refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan, then more of the refugees would have been willing to stay there. That has been a collective failure of all of us.

[leftynyc]

187. Bullshit

This whole sub thread got started by someone claiming what happened in the OP sounded like a frat party. You think Europe is under some obligation to take in EVERYONE that reaches their shores - I am under no such illusion. That' a recipe for exactly what is happening which is terrorists sneaking in with legitimate refugees. There are holes in our vetting process also - which that fiance visa used by that scum in San Bernadino showed us.

[muriel_volestrangler]

188. How would your vetting process for 13 year olds or younger keep out rapists?

Your thread isn't about terrorism; it's about rape. The youngest perpetrator is 14. So, at some point in the past few years, he came to Germany from Iraq, claiming asylum. Iraq has had thousands of murders from terrorism, and parts are under control of ISIS now, so there can be a real risk in going back. What, in the vetting process you think can be applied before someone reaches Europe (you haven't the faintest idea how, of course, you're just convinced it can be) would say "this boy will rape"?

Boys committing rape on unconscious women? Well, yes, that does sound like the worst frat parties.

Look, since you still haven't got a clue:

The right to asylum: Why Europe has to take in people fleeing persecution

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights guarantees a "right to seek and enjoy asylum," which is generally interpreted to mean that someone has the right to apply for protection. (The international refugee system was fleshed out by the 1951 Convention on the Status of Refugees.)

From the perspective of the country where someone is seeking asylum, their obligation is a negative one: not to violate the human rights of the refugee. So a country is prohibited under international law from sending an asylum-seeker back to anywhere he or she might be persecuted (something called refoulement).
...
The entire point of asylum, in the words of law professor Musalo, is that "people fleeing persecution don't have the luxury of obtaining legal documents." So while someone seeking asylum often doesn't have legal papers when he gets to his destination, there's a legal process he can follow to ask for asylum when he arrives (or, in the US, up to a year later). If he were turned back and forced to apply for refugee status from his home country (which is nearly impossible) just because he didn't have papers, it would count as refoulement — and would violate international law.

This can get extremely tricky. A border patrol agent can't just look at someone and tell whether he has a legitimate claim to asylum or whether he's coming solely for economic reasons (which would likely just make him an unauthorized migrant). And people fleeing persecution often travel with people who are coming for other reasons. They're often brought or sent by human smugglers or traffickers, who themselves are violating the law. A smuggling ring might even seek out a group of people who are desperate to leave because they're being persecuted.

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/22/8464623/asylum-refugees-law-europe

[redgreenandblue]

191. Kicked for exposure.

This thread was shameful, all the more so in light of current events.

[leftynyc]

192. Except you're comparing apples and oranges

Germany and others flung their doors open and accepted everyone. THAT'S why they had these kinds of problems. Our refugee policy takes 2 years. Single men aren't even eligible. What trump did was disgusting but he's pretending the Obama didn't do vetting and he's just lying about that. You can pretend there aren't those taking advantage of Europea open door policy all you want and also pretend anyone who is concerned is a hater but both of those notions are complete bullshit that ignores reality.