Why do I consider chiropractic to be quackery?

[Archae]

I went to a chiropractor years ago, and stopped when I got fed up with the guy constantly pushing vitamins and other supplements that he was selling.

He also did absolutely nothing for my headaches.

The entire premise behind chiropractic is faulty to begin with.

(From Wikipedia)

"Traditional chiropractic assumes that a vertebral subluxation interferes with the body's innate intelligence, a vitalistic notion ridiculed by the scientific and healthcare communities."

I'm looking at an ad, that was in our local giveaway newspaper, "The Shoreline Chronicle."

These are in the ad for a chiropractic workshop in Appleton:

"Discover how electro-magnetic fields can adversely affect you!"

"Learn the testing and nutrition necessary to achieve MAXIMUM HEALING!"

"Find out if your dental work is having an adverse effect on your health!"

"Discover the ancient healing of using mud packs to help detoxify your system!"

"Learn if emotions are slowing your healing process!"

"Find out why some nutritional products could actually make you worse instead of better!"

"Discover which SUPER FOODS you should be eating to help you heal!"

Pure, unadulterated bullshit. Quackery.

Oh I know, the chiropractic phanbois will jump all over me, with their testimonials.
Testimonials are worthless when it comes to medicines.
"I took sugar pills for my backaches and now I feel great!"

Chiropractic couldn't get medical certifications, so they went the political route.
And people die from these quacks.

[ohheckyeah]

1. I agree and disagree....

it depends on the chiropractor and the problem you have. I have a vertebrae in my neck that gets out of alignment and causes tremendous headaches. I can sit in traction which is painful and eventually it will go back in place or I can have a chiropractor put it back in place. But, a lot of chiropractors have gone woo woo so I haven't been to one in years and opt for traction which I can do at home with a kit recommended by a orthopedic surgeon.

I had a great chiropractor in Miami years ago who met me at his office at midnight to put my jaw back in place. After having my wisdom teeth taken out my jaw kept popping out of place and it got hung one night and I couldn't close my mouth. He popped it back in seconds. He didn't sell supplements, believe in "remote reading" or any of the other bullshit so prevalent today with chiropractors.

I have a friend who has bought into the whole remote reading bullshit. Her chiropractor has her taking all kinds of supplements but she's still sick all the time. She swears he can tell her over the phone what's wrong with her because he's an "empathic".

[Curmudgeoness]

2. I tend to agree with you.

I will say that I have never been to a chiropractor, so I am not speaking from experience. But I do stay away from any medical professional who exaggerates the benefits of snake oils and preaches that the latest treatments are miracle cures. But with that said, if I were in pain, and medical science was unable to do anything to help me, I would probably try a chiropractor. Then again, I would probably try a witch doctor too.

[Egalitarian Thug]

3. Gee, I had a bad doctor that told me straight out that if I lived it would be in a wheelchair.

He was wrong and his motivation was simply to cut me up for a big payday. Therefore, all doctors are crooks and allopathic medicine is for ducks.

[Logical]

30. Wow, lame logic there!

[Egalitarian Thug]

50. Same process as in the OP.

At least (s)he qualified this as nothing but opinion.

[adigal]

92. No, the OP has lame logic, this person is just mocking it

There are good and bad in all fields. I don't believe in fibromyalgia. I think it is a made up disease for people who don't want to work anymore. They are stressed and the docs made this BS up. My neighbor supposedly has fibromyalgia. But does that mean I am right? No. I can't extrapolate from one situation.

[MattBaggins]

55. No such thing as allopathic

You gave yourself away there.

[Egalitarian Thug]

58. Merrriam Webster disagrees. And gave myself away?

There's something very bizarre about this place...

[MattBaggins]

96. Allopathic is a made up term whether or not you found it in Websters

Allopathic medicine refers to the practice of conventional medicine that uses pharmacologically active agents or physical interventions to treat or suppress symptoms or pathophysiologic processes of diseases or conditions.[1] It was coined by Samuel Hahnemann (1755–1843), a homeopath, in 1810. Although "allopathic medicine" was rejected as a term by mainstream physicians, it was adopted by alternative medicine advocates to refer pejoratively to conventional medicine.

As to the "giving yourself away"; see the keyword "pejoratively" above. Allopathic is a nonsense term and when used in an argument it is grounds to dismiss that argument out of hand. Allopathic is used by people who generally have a weak background in science and do not understand what evidence based medicine means.

Notice how spell checkers don't have allopathic?

[Egalitarian Thug]

99. Uh huh. And would you care to list some words that were not made up?

I'm thinking that's the definition of language.

And no, I never claimed neutrality on this issue. I'm able to walk and run and enjoy my life over 30 years after an "eminent surgeon" assured me that if I lived at all it would be in a wheelchair after he cut me up, fused some vertebrae, and installed a bunch of hardware in my neck. Thankfully a family friend directed me to a good Chiropractor that fixed me up in about two months. I saw another one in the 90's after another mishap, he took 4 weeks.

Do I think all doctors are quacks because I've run into a few? No, because that would be stupid, just as this OP is.

[MattBaggins]

102. A few points involved there

1. So your first doctor made a mistake and thought your injuries were worse than they were.

2. You have an anecdote about an experience with a chiropractor who you now accredit with what was most likely just natural healing of your body.

3. Chiropractics has it's roots deep in a big steaming pile of woo and is still tainted by a majority of under trained practitioners with no idea what they are doing, and who still push complete nonsense. There is no where near the number of crack pots in evidence based medicine as there are voodoo chiropractors.

Your use of allopathic still falls short and you know it. Yes all words are "made up" and that is a rather silly defection. It is meant as a pejorative and I am certain you are fully aware of it. If I decided out of the blue to call myself a "Rationalist" and ergo labeled you "Irrationalist" would you not say that was a bit lame?

[Egalitarian Thug]

106. As I said. stupid post. My doctor didn't "make a mistake", he saw a patient with means

and tried to get a big payday at my expense.

Now where Chiropractic falls short is in getting the con-men out of the profession and tolerating certifiable madmen to represent them as doctors in good standing just because they're rich (I'm talking to you Sid)

And BTW, upon what evidence do you make your claim that there are "no where near the number of crack pots in evidence based medicine as there are voodoo chiropractors." I'm sure we could both sit here and trade horror stories of horrendous malpractice and the fact that the respective "regulators" ensure that they can continue their practices, but where's the national studies, where are those hard numbers comparing the numbers of practitioners and the number of incidences of malpractice?

And Chiropractors are well trained, better than MD's if you'd care to investigate, but we both know that you won't, just as everybody knows your purpose for being here.

Have a wonderful day.

[MattBaggins]

122. Chiroprators are better trained if you believe the data they put out.

Last edited Tue Jun 5, 2012, 11:24 AM - Edit history (1)

If some one spent 300 college hours reading ancient works in their original languages, and I spent 500 hours reading old comic books am I better trained in classic literature?

[Jim Lane]

4. Chiropractic is only about 95% BS.

I think a few people have medical conditions that can be improved through chiropractic (some problems of the spine). This distinguishes it from stuff like reiki, which promises healing by letting a practitioner wave his hands near the patient's body (without touching).

With that minor qualification, I agree with you. Your final point, that people die from these quacks, is especially important.

[crunch60]

81. Don't disqualify the placebo effect, it's the power of the mind to heal.

If someone is stage 4 cancer, more chemo will probably help finish you off. At least Riki at this stage is comforting and non invasive.

[adigal]

94. Absolutely...and how do we know if reiki is real?? It uses energy in the universe

which we cannot see. We can't see radio waves either. Or TV waves. Or cell phone words flying across the sky. Some people are more sensitive to these things we cannot see. I do believe there is something to all of this energy stuff.

[MattBaggins]

103. Except we can test and measure all those other energies you listed

They can all be described by mathematical models and experiments designed to test their existence. If this "energy" exists please provide a model for this energy and show some double blind experiments that show that these "sensitive" people are actually "sensitive". What is the theoretical base unit of the energy? Is it a boson? A tachyon?

[adigal]

124. They can measure brainwave changes, and mathematicians are

now thinking that there are multiverses, etc., all starting to be looked into mathematically.

[MattBaggins]

125. That is interesting but sounds like creationists who latch on to the laws of thermodynamics

to "prove " that evolution is impossible or homeopaths that use the term quantum entanglement to try and bolster the concept of succination. Osteopaths throw around the term homeostasis so much people start to believe they actually have a clue what the term really means. There are people out there who are truly experts in understanding homeostasis and they are called Endocrinologists.

The existence of multiverses is all fine and dandy but the question is whether or not these so called energy healers can show positive results under controlled conditions. They can't and they won't.

[adigal]

126. There is no discussing with one whose mind is not open

Those who believed the earth wasn't the center of the universe were called heretics, and I don't really see the link between PhDs and creationists, but you are determined to believe what you see, so that's fine. Peace.

[DanteSr.]

5. CHIROPRACTIC by H.L. Mencken 1924

Baltimore Evening Sun, December 1924

Such quackeries suck in the botched, and help them on to bliss eternal. When
these botched fall into the hands of competent medical men they are very
likely to be patched up and turned loose upon the world, to beget their kind.
But massaged along the backbone to cure their lues, they quickly pass into
the last stages, and so their pathogenic heritage perishes with them. What is
too often forgotten is that nature obviously intends the botched to die, and
that every interference with that benign process is full of dangers.

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~njumonvi/mencken2.html

Americans love quackery and always have. It's tradition.

[crunch60]

79. Do you know how many people die from the poisonous drugs

prescribed by Dr.'s for medical conditions. Modern medicine is owned by the Health Insurance Lobby/ Big Pharma. They will discredit anything that does not make them money. I believe in integrated therapy's. There is room for both. I have posted the following video because it's very informative and because I have been there.

[MattBaggins]

104. Big Pharma?

Chiropractic "medicine" and homeopathy only exist because of "Big Woo". Powerful groups with money and political influence pushed the government to accept them.

We now have Rand Paul trying to foist new controls on the FDA preventing them from regulating "nutriceuticals" and allowing Big Herbals and Big Naturals freedom to make what ever ludicrous claims they want.

Big Pharma and the FDA need some serious over haul but at least they have to go through years of rigorous testing. Big Woo wants the freedom to do as they please with no consequences at all. They are just as profit based and political in nature as Big Pharma.

[crunch60]

114. Thanks, I'll take my chiropractor and my one a day vitamin over big Pharma

any day. As I said, there is room for both. Both systems are flawed perhaps, you have to make the choice and I have made mine...from personal experience.

I know the ingredients in my vit.D3- and the company's reputation .$9.50--120 tabs

Big Pharma wants it's synthetic vit D-3 on the market for triple the price- not effective

Years of rigorous testing,, my ass. many drugs are fast tracked through the FDA. depends on the $$$$. I don't trust the FDA or the USDA

My friend died because of one of these fast tracked drugs!
I do agree with Rand Paul on this one.

[MattBaggins]

121. I am sorry but you are completely wrong about "Big Pharma" vitamin D

The dangers in the lies spread by Big Woo.

The Vitamin D from dietary supplements is in the form of cholecalciferol and the prescription form of vitamin D is in the form of calcitriol and is the form needed by the body. Cholecalciferol is converted to calcitriol by the liver and kidneys. If this function of the liver and kindeys are comprimised a person must take the prescription form of vitamin D.

Vitamin D is a generic term for a wide array of steroid hormone compounds but they are not all the same.

So because the FDA has allowed fast tracking to get out of hand; you come to the conclusion that the answer should be allowing crackpots and charlatans to make any claims they want with no oversight at all? So you wouldn't mind Merck opening up a homeopathic division and selling "organic tinctures" of belladonna and hemlock with no testing or oversight of their claims?

Interesting

[Johnny Rico]

6. Penn and Teller - Alternative Medicine (Full Episode)

[Odin2005]

7. What do you call a failed physical therapist? A chiropractor.

[Life Long Dem]

8. I agree

No chiropractor is going to snap my neck.

[amuse bouche]

27. When anyone starts talking about

'cracking' something ...it's time to run away fast

As an R.N and LMT, I am biased, but a good massage will benefit a person in a much more gentle and common sense manner

[Scout]

41. chiropractors don't "crack" anything

and thanks for admitting you are biased

[amuse bouche]

68. I'm 'biased' because

I'm educated, a medical professional and 20+ years professional experience

Many chiros use violent movements when treating patients and many patients call for appointments to get 'cracked'

Sorry, there is nothing good about that approach or mindset

[Scout]

69. you obviously are not educated about chiropractic

and guess what? many of those with an md after their name aren't all that smart.

and many of those without any degree after their name are very smart.

'cracked' is not what is happening, regardless of what patients say. your bones aren't cracked.

sorry, my several md's and therapists over the years did NOT fix my problem with their non-"violent" techniques, nor their pills, nor their massages, nor the heel lift in my shoe ... none of it worked.

i saw the before and after x-rays of my spine, i know what the chiropractor did, and i know how my back feels and what i am able to do after all these years of being in pain, and now it's not.

[WolverineDG]

71. but to the anti-chiros, that doesn't count

their first-hand personal experiences supporting their opinions DO count, however. I've seen this pattern over & over & over.

[Sheepshank]

93. And chiropractor that doesn't do x-rays or MRI's first

especially uint he case of spinal stenosis or even a hemmoraged disc is causing more problems.

I am officially and completely put off by the fact that they insist on being called "doctor".

[Egalitarian Thug]

110. Oldest joke in med school,

Q: "What does a 'D' stand for?"
A: "Doctor"

[amuse bouche]

115. "you obviously are not educated about chiropractic"

lol--That's your bias and silly assumption.

I have 3 who refer patients to me and many of those patients did not have great experiences

It's wonderful that you are pain free. Consider yourself lucky

I advocate that people research and make educated decisions for their course of treatment.

It is widely agreed in the scientific community, that Chiros subluxation theories and its related pseudoscientific claims are horse pucky.

[richmwill]

9. I also both agree and disagree.

I have been helped by a chiropractor after having bad back pain following a car accident. So they do help, when they focus on the main intent. However, I have also gone to chiropractors who I would classify as quacks. One of whom tried a "technique" of snapping their fingers above the painful areas and claiming it would work in relieving pain. Then you also have the chiropractors who insist that you must come in for treatments 6 days a week for years in order to be helped.

[nadine_mn]

56. That happened to my husband

He had some neck pain that led to some headaches so I suggested he try a chiropractor. When they signed him up for a yr treatment, 3-4 days a week I called quackery. He still tried it, but after a few months of nothing really helping he quit.

I think there are some legitimate health problems that chiropractors can help. In our case, they seemed more interested in having a life long client (they called for weeks trying to get my husband to renew his contract) than actually helping my husband. That is just one experience we had, I am not going to say that is the norm.

[dkf]

11. Nope...when my neck starts radiating pain and my doc says to use anti-inflammatories one stop

to my chiropractor and the next day it is gone.

[crunch60]

78. Same with me. Couldn't do without him. Trust him more than

than my MD., who want's to RX pain meds. My chiropractor gives me an adjustment, and out of there in less than 5 min. Next day or two, pain gone. Been seeing him for 14 years. He doesn't push any products either.

[RevStPatrick]

12. I went to a chiropractor a few years ago...

...when I threw out my back playing drums.
2 sessions, and he fixed me right up.
I altered my playing technique, and have had no problems since.

He knew what he was doing, it was appropriate for the problem, and there was no quackery involved.

Chiropractors are chiropractors, quacks are quacks...

[WriteWrong]

13. May as well Godwin it right away: Hitler was a man, therefore all men...

http://www.philosophicalsociety.com/Logical%20Fallacies.htm

discussed at

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1022141


I think a substantial number of chiropracters believe what they have to in order to be comfortable making a living within the strictures of their field, and a lot of this is either nonsense or unsubstantiated opinion. Nevertheless, many people have real problems with their back that are helped by competent adjustment. A lesser problem is chiropractors who unconsciously develop inferior technique that results in repeat visits, just because people work that way.

I also think that pretty much any doctor pushing antidepressants against the evidence at this time is equally quackaceous.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2582668/
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Emperor_s_New_Drugs.html?id=wk-OxcTKyi4C

This ought to have been enough to open up serious questioning of the assumptions the theory was based on. Instead, it's just prompted a search for newer, not-yet-discredited drugs.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

14. At least chiropractors manipulate the body

and it might help temporarily enhance blood flow. These guys in this video claim they can heal without even touching their patients, merely by waving their hands a few inches away.

&feature=player_detailpage

[Johnny Rico]

16. I thought I was familiar with with most pseudoscientific gibberish...

But "Pranic Healing" is a new one for me. I'm still astonished that so many people are gullible enough to fall for this sort of nonsense.

[Scout]

15. because you haven't gone to a real chiropractor?

i've been having back pain in the same spot since i was a teenager ... MDs had me on muscle relaxers, physical therapy, traction, and still end up with same back pain. oh yeah, of course they said lose weight ... i did ... my back still hurt.

go to chiropractor, get x-rays: my lumbar vertebrae were twisted, and my thoracic vertebrae curved. got adjustments twice a week for six weeks, then once a week for several weeks ... NEVER have had that pain in my back since the 3rd or 4th adjustment. follow-up x-rays should significant improvement. x-rays don't lie. so now i go about every 4 weeks, and my back is functioning normally, my spine is flexible like it used to be.

why someone would go to a chiropractor for pills is beyond me, i guess maybe that was your problem

why someone would think pills would fix a spinal subluxation is also beyond me.

[whistler162]

18. Exactly...

I have had two or three bouts of sciatica. The times I went to a doctor first it was drugs and nothing else. Went to a chiropractor and I was helped quite quickly. I also had a problem I thought was my sciatic flairing up again and the chiropractor recognized that the problem was getting worse not better and fgot me in quickly to have x-rays and then to see a orthopedic doctor. It turned out I had arthritis in the spine and needed to have three vertebrae opened up and one disc removed. Thanks to both I am walking today.

A knowledgable chiropractor can be a asset to your bodies health.

[underseasurveyor]

75. Almost the same exact story for me.

Started as a teen (14-15), mom took me to doctors that only gave me pills that didn't do a damn thing except make me sleep and I still had back pain. Finally when I was about 23 I went to a chiropractor. After the first adjustment, even though I was a bit sore, the pain was gone and I was so much looser.

Unfortunately too many people think that a "pill" will fix anything. Foolish, silly and wishful thinking.

I love my chiropractor AND any good chiropractor will tell you that chiropractics can't fix everything.

[Scout]

82. "any good chiropractor will tell you that chiropractics can't fix everything"

agree 100%

we talked about my issues before she even did the x-rays, just for that reason. we decided together that pending what the x-rays showed, it sounded like chiro would help me. my problem could have been caused by any of these things that happened to me in my teens/twenties: falling out of a tree; bicycle accident; thrown from a horse; playing softball; practice of judo; car accident; sledding accident.

we reviewed the x-rays together and i could see myself the twisted lumbar area. we reviewed the x-rays taken after treatment and i could see the improvement which i had been feeling since my 3rd adjustment.

[underseasurveyor]

84. I started as an early twenty something

and I'm 52 now and I go once a month like clock work. There was a period of years I didn't go regularly and boy did I feel the difference. Stiff, stuck and at times unable to bend down and tie my own shoes from that lower back pain that shot down the back of my left leg. One adjustment is all it takes and the shooting pains are instantly gone.

Unfortunately I think there are a number of sham artists out there but if you know the right questions to ask and know what chiropractics is and isn't then I believe it's very easy to weed out the quick-buck quacks and wannabe healers.

Western medicine today is little more than pill pushing for big pharma.

[mainer]

17. They address emotional needs and they touch you

That may be all a patient needs, to have his/her anxieties eased.

Sometimes, pain is very much related to emotions, and if a chiropractor spends an hour giving you soothing massage and acknowledging your pain, that could do it. But I suspect that a masseuse might do just as good a job.

Once, in the throes of pain, I was talked into going to a chiropractor who was called "the best in the business." I got the massage, the heat/soothing music. Felt good for about an hour, then the excruciating neck pain came back. It lasted two months.

Finally I realized this truly was an anatomical issue. Not stress. Neurosurgery fixed it like magic.

[dadchef]

65. Sometimes, it's all about stress..

Back in the late 70's, I was winding down in my life, contemplating retirement, and my failed marriage.. I spent a lifetime in truly successful businesses, but stressful in the extreme.. I began deteriorating physically, and emotionally, which was exasperated by my wife's constant bickering and nagging, about my absence from home and abandonment of my family duties.. All of which was unfortunately true.. I developed what was diagnosed as rheumatoid arthritis, followed by medication, mussel relaxers, mood-altering drugs, and including massive Cortisone treatments.. Nothing worked, I was placed in traction and restraints..

All that happened was I became tired and confused, and frustrated.. Finally I went to a "chiropractor who was called 'the best in the business.' "..

He dickered with me for weeks without any more relief.. Finally, he told me that what I needed wasn't drugs or realignments, I needed a change in my life.. Soooooo, I got a divorce, and was forced to sell my businesses, to finalize my property settlements, to get her to agree to give me guardianship of my 3 kids.. BINGO

Within a month I started eliminating all the appliances, and drugs, and had a full recovery in 2 months.. Never experienced any recurrences of any kind.. Sometimes, a chiropractor does work, but for alternative reasons..

[spanone]

19. all medical folks are a crap shoot imo.

[Nevernose]

20. Here's how it usually works:

You usually have to ho to a chiropractor for 2 or 3 days in order to show an improvement. That's the same amount of time that most back pain goes away on its own. Simple, really. They may be doing something for some people, but most people can be cured simply by taking it easy a couple of days.

[Scout]

21. when did you get your degree?

but most people can be cured simply by taking it easy a couple of days

my vertebra that were twisted for years beg to differ.

[Nevernose]

54. I guess you're not most people, are you?

I think a better question might be: what medical qualifications are needed to be a chiropractor?

[crunch60]

80. Sorry, but you are so wrong.

[Ruby the Liberal]

22. I see a chiro, but not for headaches.

I had a back injury years ago and the back-cracking makes me feel like I am walking on a cloud when I leave. LOVE having my back aligned (or whatever its called formally).

YMMV

[amuse bouche]

23. I spent my early years in MA

right down the street from the NH line. I remember going to my grandmother's home in NH every Sunday

At the time Chiropractors were illegal in MA and legal in NH. Crossing the NH line, every other house had a Chiropractor sign hanging out front

I asked my dad what did this mean? He said, they don't allow quacks in our state. I thought he was talking about a type of duck.

I was a confused child for many years

[noiretextatique]

24. if it doesn't work for you, try something else

i have a chronic shoulder problem, and i get some relief from my chiropractic treatments. also acupuncture and cannabis oil. physical therapy did not work for me.

[unreadierLizard]

25. I don't see chiropracty as quackery.

My mother and I went to one years ago once a month to work on our backs.

We both noticed a remarkable improvement in our back muscles and the like session after session. I went to a chiropractor for help with my sciatica; my back's felt a bit better since.

Also; My chiropractor got a degree from an accredited Canadian university - he's a Doctor with the College of Chiropractors of Ontario.

I guess I disagree with you.

[MattBaggins]

57. Accredited by whom?

A real Medical board or a group of fellow Chiropractors who created a board just to certify one another?

[unreadierLizard]

59. Actually, the provincial government.

It set up the College for Chiropractors.

[lynne]

26. Guess you consider it quackery because it didn't help you -

- OTOH, it helped me tremendously. Also did my father a world of good when nothing else - short of a back brace and heavy pain killers - would.

I've been lucky and have searched for and found good ones. I believe in them enough to change my health insurance to a plan that included coverage for chiropractors.

But - hey - to each their own.

[Honeycombe8]

28. The things in your list are not chiropractic things, but I believe most of them are true.

They are not quackery.

Superfoods? That's a reality. Google it. That's talking about cantaloupe, broccoli, and a few other foods....very rich in antioxidants and nutrients, high in fiber, low in calories. "Superfood" doesn't mean they have magical properties. It just means they are super duper for your health in several ways.

Dental: that is talking about the mercury in old fillings. There is some truth to that.

Nutrition for healing? Absolutely true. Eat poorly, and you will find your health starts to fail. Watch the movie "Supersize me."

Emotions slowing healing process? Of course. That is a valid, proven medical statement. Stress is known to cause people to become ill, and make health conditions worse. It raises blood pressure and does a host of other bad things. So does depression.

It sounds like you may need to get some education in nutrition and health.

As far as chiropractors...they basically manipulate the spine and have nothing to do with the things in your list. I am suspicious of them and don't know of anyone who has been cured by one.

[TrogL]

29. My chiropractor is actually pretty good

He disdains the quackery and only does muscle relaxation (using electrical stimulation and massage) and back manipulation. He calls the rest of the stuff "old school".

He's done wonders for my neck cramps and back issues.

[easttexaslefty]

31. Don't know what kind of crappy chiropractor

you went to, but ours has really helped our backs. He keeps my husband & I off the pain pills & has a focus on core strength. There are quacks in ANY profession.

[Logical]

33. All because you think it will! But glad it works!

[Scout]

35. yeah, i just THINK my vertebra were twisted...

and that damn x-ray must have read my mind!

and those pills, that physical therapy, the traction, all that stuff that DIDN'T fix my back, well that was in my mind too!

[easttexaslefty]

38. No. Not because I THINK it will.

Because it does.

[Logical]

32. My back goes out now and then.....

I used to go to chiros, then a real doctor said my back would get better on its own in about 3-5 days no matter if I saw a chiro or not. He was right. The chiro did nothing!

[madokie]

34. I agree

Went to a chiropractor once and came away feeling like I'd thrown my money away, far away.
I refer to them as quacks too.

[shraby]

36. When I was 2 yrs. old, I was accidentally dropped on my head by a 16 yr. old

who was holding me..I jerked backward and kept on going right to the ground. This was 66 years ago. I couldn't raise my head and was extremely pigeon toed in one foot. The medical doc. told my Mom, that was the way I would be. In other words "what you see is what you got".

I was taken to a Chiropractor who I went to for several years..don't know how often. I was little. But the upshot was I can raise my head, I'm not pigeon toed and have been okay every since.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

37. People have been crippled for life by them.

I don't want anyone without a medical degree messing with my neck and back.

[ArcticFox]

39. They sure did help me

I twisted my back skiing, couldn't move without excruciating pain for a week, couldn't push down the flush handle on the toilet even. I started going to the chiropractor without believing in out, mostly because I knew a regular doctor would just give me pain meds. After a week I was moving around again.

It was a bulging disc pinching on my nerves. My doctor stretches my back and loosens those tight muscles that kept my nerve pinched.

Beats the hell out of back surgery if you ask me. It's much better than a massage, and comparable in price.

Sorry about all the bad experiences others have had, but I could write a book about bad M.D.s.

[midnight armadillo]

61. So an MD would have just pulled out a scalpel and Vicodin?

Sheesh. I had a nasty lower back herniation - a chunk of disc actually broke off and was floating in the spinal canal. I went to my MD, got Vicodin (thank God, I was in agony), then a neurosurgeon who did a cortisone injection and a PT who did spinal decompression and exercises. Total cure, as much as a permanently mechanically weakened disc can be cured. No surgery.

I did call a local chiro at one point, he wanted to use some spinal decompression machine. Some research discovered the machine manufacturer had been raided by the FBI. Think I'll stick with real MDs.

[SidDithers]

40. Because it is...nt

Sid

[Scout]

42. yes, and your fellow DUers posting here

are just deluded, gullible liars. right.

[DustyJoe]

43. Totally Agree

When I went to one for back pain and he took an x-ray, he showed me the x-ray pointing out all the bulged disks and wanted me on a weekly regimen of visits to fix and work on the problems. Problem was, I have had a 1inch chunk of shrapnel in my lung since 1968 and the x-ray did not show it. I asked him who the x-ray was of, and left his office not to return.

[sakabatou]

44. Here's some from C0nc0rdance:

[frogmarch]

108. Thanks. Going to watch Part 2 now.

This is very good!

[jeff47]

45. Like any medical profession, there's good and bad practitioners.

I've had extremely good results from the "chiropractic biophysics" sub-set of chiropractors - they've been far more interested in things like x-rays and less interested in miscellaneous woo.

It's difficult to call them quacks when they show you exactly the problem, and then fix it.

[JonLP24]

46. I love how the local chiropractic commercial here

opens w/ a guy over aggressive handling a bag of something (resembles the shape & weight of a big bag of dog food) and says "I hate doctors".

[Go Vols]

47. .

A genuine chiropractic is better than any meds you can take.
I found one that took care of me for 10 years,then I moved and the only remedy Drs. see fit now is enough pills to kill a horse.

[backscatter712]

48. There is a huge amount of woo-woo in chiropracty.

Maybe some good comes out of chiropracty if you have lower back pain - it integrates some aspects of massage and physical therapy, though I'd suggest going to a physical therapist for such things - they know how to manipulate and massage your back, and guide you through exercises without damaging you further.

The problem is when chiropractors start claiming that cracking your back will do things like cure the flu or deafness, or when the chiropractor suggests MAGNETS...

Maybe it will help if you've got lower back pain. Then again, maybe you'll get an especially quacky chiropractor that will wreck your back even worse.

I suggest going to see a real doctor.

[laundry_queen]

49. physiotherapists aren't much better.

I've been to a few and it felt like torture most of the time. And it made my problem worse.

I agree that some of them push crap they shouldn't be pushing. They need to stick to what they were trained to do. I believe in it only because of a hip problem I had. I know it wasn't some kind of placebo effect either.***testimonial warning *** I was a teenager and couldn't walk. Everytime I'd take a step my leg would give out and I get a horrid pain in my hip. I shuffled around like I was 100 years old. My doctor put me on pain killers, muscle relaxants, anti-inflammatories so now I wasn't only unable to walk, i was stoned too. I had x-rays and orthopedic surgeon consults. Nothing was 'wrong'. I did physio and was told to put lots of heat on it. Every night I faithfully put heat on it. I was in constant pain. It felt like it was dislocated but drs said x-rays were normal. It clicked constantly. My mom kept nagging me to go to the chiro. Being a science geek I told her I didn't believe in it, but one day, after I shuffled around the house holding on to the railing, my mom forced me to go with her to the chiro. I walked in to the office holding on to my mom's arm. I explained the problem to him and right away he said what he thought it was, told me ice not heat, and then did an adjustment and I felt instant relief. I walked out of there, normally and pain free.

I have gone for other back issues and never really got good relief. But every time my hip bothers me (which, after the initial course of treatment is only once a year or so for the last 21 years) I go back to another chiro, and without explaning what the previous one did, they all do the same manoever and I feel instant relief again. I can even self-adjust at home if I catch the pain before it gets too bad.

Unfortunately, the good ones are paying the price for the whack-a-doodle ones. I do find it amusing, however, that you say you don't want to hear anyone's testimonials because it's worthless when it comes to medicine, but you opened with your own.

[flamingdem]

64. Too true. I had one who was a rip-off

and then found one that fixed me up and diagnosed properly

Best to get a referral from a University clinic or similar

[Kablooie]

51. My wife swears by her chiropractor.

But she doesn't seem to have any fewer aches and pains and also takes horse sized dosages of vitamins and other supplements every day.

Oh, and she also is into homeopathic medicine.
And traditional Chinese medicine.

The only thing she believes is quackery is modern western medicine though she does see a regular doctor now and then and is happy if she comes home with a prescription for antibiotics.

If I tell her I am skeptical about all this she gets angry and looks down at me as a stiff, closed minded cretin.

I just have to live with it. (And pay for it too since our medical insurance doesn't cover alternative treatments.)

[meaculpa2011]

52. I was doubled up with pain in my lower back...

but had refused to see a chiropractor because of the ridiculous claims I'd heard. My father was a presser in a garment center sweatshop and started visiting a chiropractor back in the 1940s. He kept after me until I finally gave in. One visit straightened me up and another two days later eliminated the pain. Now I go when needed, two or three times a year. I guess I was lucky.

Sometimes father does know best.

BTW: The most dramatic relief came when I started working on my ab muscles. Went from 37 inches to 30 around the waist and the constant low-grade ache in the lower back is pretty much gone.

[easttexaslefty]

53. Yep. A good chiropractor

Strongly encourages core strengthening for chronic back pain.

[panader0]

60. My testimonial:

I started as a bricklayer about 1970. Over the years I have done many other kinds of construction, including concrete, carpentry, drywall, stucco and others. On the occasion that my back goes out, it is almost paralyzing. The pain in my lower back is extreme.
I go to my chiropractor and he sets me straight in ten minutes and I'm good to go. I go once every two years or so, but if I had more money I would go more often. He doesn't push any other stuff, but as for the "quackery" you cite, there's no doubt that good nutrition is important; "mud packs" are no more than poultices that can draw toxins; "emotions slowing the healing process" mean keeping a positive attitude which seems to be common sense. Bad teeth have been proven to cause other problems including heart disease.
In my opinion, it's the "real doctors" who fuck people up. Too many bizarre meds causing too many serious side effects.

[riderinthestorm]

62. We have sport horses and they are regularly attended to by a chiropractor

Animals don't have the ability to "fake" a response, nor do they have the ability to get a palliative effect from a placebo remedy.

FWIW, there are real and measurable differences in the horses that are regularly worked on by the chiropractor at our barn. They have range of motion issues that are resolved, they have chronic knots that can be palpably felt, worked on and eliminated. We can see horses get demonstrably calmer as their pain subsides when they get adjusted.

I've gone to the chiropractor myself and haven't gotten any results so ymmv but I can say with real certainty that I know it works for animals, why not humans? Maybe not all humans but I would never say it couldn't help some people with some problems.

[flamingdem]

63. The main scam is that they're not trained

any where near the level of an MD.

I had a terrible experience with one of them adjusting my neck. Too bad he didn't read the literature about how that can cause a stroke.
They are DANGEROUS

[Egalitarian Thug]

91. I hate being in the position of defending what is a profession rife with

scam artists, but you're just wrong.

Minimum Required Hours
Chiropractic College Medical School
456 Anatomy/Embryology. 215
243 Physiology 174
296 Pathology 507
161 Chemistry/Biochemistry 100
145 Microbiology 145
408 Diagnosis 113
149 Neurology 171
56 Psychology/Psychiatry 323
66 Obstetrics & Gynecology 284
271 X-ray 13
168 Orthopedics 2

2,419 Total Hours for Degree 2,047

A different discipline so there's a different emphasis, but they are better trained in most relevant subjects. They also have to pass state boards, fulfill an internship and residency in most states.

You got a bad doctor, welcome to the club.


Crap! No tables allowed, but here are the numbers.

[flamingdem]

95. Not just one, they were all psychopaths

One claimed my neck pain could be from cancer and he wrote me a three page letter pleading with me to return to his office. Yeesh.

[cynatnite]

101. He was probably hoping for a new mercedes. n/t

[Egalitarian Thug]

107. Very likely. This seems to present itself everywhere in America today.

I can't remember the last time I engaged a professional that was competent.

Making everything about nothing more than how many dollars you can get is ruining our culture.

Carpenters that can't hang a door or make a square corner, mechanics that can't fix a car, programmers that can't write the most basic code or even suss out a process to achieve the desired results, doctors that are not capable of any care beyond writing a scrip, bartenders that can't make a decent drink, dancers with no rhythm, lawyers that don't know the law, ad infinitum.

[Egalitarian Thug]

109. Are you on the west coast perchance? I can give you the name of one of the best

Doctors in the business, He's worked for most, if not all, of LA's professional teams and he is (or was) the whatever they call the head guy for the state.

If you have a problem for which Chiropractic care is appropriate, it's freaking amazing how quickly and thoroughly a good one can get your body to heal itself, but the bad ones are just awful, and as you've already seen the thieves seem to outnumber the good ones.

[cynatnite]

66. Patient had a stroke due to a chiropractor...

So, I don't have a real high opinion of them.

[stlsaxman]

86. Patient had a heart attack due to a 3-way...

but, i still have a very high opinion of them.

do you have a "stroke/chiropractor" link to back up your claim?

at least mine was decided by a jury of his peers... iow- it really happened.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002762088

[cynatnite]

90. I worked at neuro wing and cared for the patient...

She was in her mid-30's and a visit to the chiropractor resulted in her getting a stroke. She had been in the ICU for nearly 3 weeks. We had her for over 2 months and then she was transferred to a rehab facility.

Keep in mind the spine houses everything that keeps you alive. Manipulating it, popping it and various other extremities is not something that should be taken lightly. Not only that, chiropractic medicine gets is quackery label due to the fact that the industry claims that diseases can be cured by manipulation of the spine.

For treatment of purely low back pain, chiropractic medicine has it's merits. But that's as far as I'd be willing to go.

My other reason for not trusting the profession is the fact that these people do not go to medical school. They are not M.D.'s or D.O's. With the exception of 1 school, they do not require a bachelor's degree in order to be admitted. They only require a 3.0 GPA. More state boards are starting to require bachelor's. Some schools do offer postdoctoral training in areas such as neurology, orthopedics, radiology and even pediatrics. Those I would be likely to trust more than the average chiropractor.

When I go see an MD, I know he's not some quack with a 3.0 GPA that skated through college. You can't just waltz into medical school so easily. I trust someone who has the brains to be an M.D. more than I will ever trust a chiropractor who tries to pass him or herself off as a doctor. They're not doctors...unless they do the necessary post doctorate work.

I'm aware that a lot of people have had good experiences with chiropractors which is fine. My mother worked for one for many years. He was a fine gentleman that we liked.

In regards to the patient, you can call me a liar if you'd like. That's your choice. It's not going to change my opinion of the profession as a whole.

I should add that we had a lot of neurosurgeons on our ward and not one of them had a positive thing to say about chiropractic medicine.

[jeff47]

97. Med school isn't that strong a filter.

When I go see an MD, I know he's not some quack with a 3.0 GPA that skated through college. You can't just waltz into medical school so easily.

Sorry, I know too many doctors to believe that. Such as the one I helped get through intro biology in college.

[cynatnite]

100. With any field you're going to have your bad apples...

I would still trust an MD over a chiropractor who averaged a 3.0 GPA. At least I know with an MD, they had to have a 3.75 GPA just to be competitive for medical school.

There is no getting around the fact that chiropractors are not MD's.

[MrScorpio]

67. I've spent some time under the care of one while in the service

Basically to deal with a back issue.

He used an adjustment, massage and heat to help me with it and it gave me a lot of relief.

Now, I hope that I never experienced any of the quackery that you've mentioned because the military has a low tolerance for quacks.

But Chiropractic, like a whole host of many things in this country, is as only as good as what you're willing to pay for.

Caveat emptor, baby.

[WolverineDG]

70. I went to a chiro & got relief from neck & shoulder pain

that my doctor only prescribed medication for (which did absolutely nothing for what I had).

She didn't try to sell me on anything else, either. Just worked on the parts the hurt & made them stop hurting.

[underseasurveyor]

72. That's about as an uninformed OP

as I've ever seen on DU.

Wow how unaware and disconnected can a person be about their own health, body, how it works and how things affect it.
To each their own I guess.

[LibertyLover]

73. I almost lost a cousin to chiropracty

She had gone to him for back problems following the birth of her first child. His back manipulations caused a severe stroke. Worse was the fact that his office let her leave while she was exhibiting severe balance, speech and memory problems. They did call her house and got her mother who was visiting because of the new baby. We almost lost her and she has problems to this day. She did win a malpractice law suit against the chiropractor that thankfully paid most of the medical bills.

[derby378]

74. My niece's husband is a chiropractor

Me being the former president of a skeptic's organization in Texas, I know that chiropractice is divided into two camps: those who utilize it in the milieu of sports medicine and use it to treat backaches and other related conditions and injuries, and those who have bought into the older, debunked notions that subluxation can have a negative effect on the rest of the body. These are the ones who push detoxification, nutritional supplements, energy healing, and all that BS. My chiropractic relative doesn't do anything of the sort to my knowledge, and I'd probably jump on his case if I caught him doing it.

[xchrom]

76. Give me good physical therapists who have a complete

Run down from the Dr. & MRIs & x-rays.

I have 3 slowly degenerating vertebrae in my neck that chiros tried to fix w/ manipulation .
Fuhgetaboutit.

Physical therapists work w/ your Dr. & real evidence & training.

[Marrah_G]

77. I've never had a chiropractor try to sell me supplements

I went to recover from a badly broken arms, then later to recover from back surgery. Physical and occupational therapists helped me recover the ability to walk and regain motor skills after an extremely bad reaction to an antibiotic left me close to paralyzed.

Never heard anything like your experiences from anyone. Maybe it's the area you live in?

[Digit]

83. I wouldn't condemn the entire field

I visited an Osteopath who also did manipulation. Osteopaths are also MD's. He came very highly recommended and he was able to take care of a severe year old injury to my neck.

I guess you could say he did some limited manipulation that day although I believe it might have been accupressure that fixed the proublem although he was also trained in acupuncture.

I felt so wonderful afterwards that I went home and dismantled an old workbench and reinjured myself.

I returned to my Osteopath and he fixed me up again and admonished me to take it easy for 30 days.

That was over 24 years ago and I never had a problem since.

I also visited a chiropractor where I live now and he was worthless IMO and was huge into supplements and all sorts of "add ons". He really came off as more of a snake oil salesman which totally turned me off.

My guess it that it is hit or miss when it comeso to a chiropractor.

[Ilsa]

85. There is also a passive adjustment technique

where the body is positioned with props at certain angles and gravity, over 15 minutes or so, realigns the spine. Most people don't have the time for that, though, and they want a more aggressive manipulation.

I have had good fortune in finding good chiropractors. One explained that my problem was that one leg was slightly longer than the other. After I started using a small shoe lift, about 3/8", my body lined up much better and back, shoulder, and neck problems disappeared.

I'm a nurse, and there are quacky MDs, just like some chiropractors. And yes, MDs have hurt people too by misdiagnosis, prescribing drugs poorly (without consideration to other medicines), and not taking the time to listen to their patients.

[B2G]

87. Try living with a dislocated thoracic rib for a couple of days

and then get back to me. They don't make a pill that can touch the pain.

[otohara]

88. Who Died? How Many?

I've had great luck with Chiropractic - when I was able to afford getting regular adjustments, it helped me a lot.

I don't agree with their claim to be a fix all for everything - but for aches and pains in the back and neck - works very well.

I've never heard anyone dying from Chiropractic - but people do die at the hands of MD docs, are they quacks too?

[MattBaggins]

105. Google

http://whatstheharm.net/chiropractic.html

[ceile]

89. No idea what kind of chiro you've been to

but I've never had mine push anything on me. Well, except prayer once- so I found a new one.

[Mairead]

98. I consulted a chiro once on the advice of a close friend

The chiro did some sort of twitchy snap-crackle-pop with my neck that had my heart in my mouth. Since that fear and the sound effects were all I'd got from the "treatment", I decided that I'd do more yoga instead.

[amuse bouche]

119. I started practicing yoga

at 13 and it is the best medicine for the body and soul

I highly recommend it

[jmowreader]

111. There are quacks and non-quacks in chiropractic

A non-quack chiropractor is basically a mechanic: if you have vertebrae that are out of alignment, the non-quack chiro realigns them and sends you on your way feeling much better. The 82nd Airborne would be non-mission-capable were it not for the dozens of these guys who practice right outside post.

A chiro who believes in subluxations is a first-order quack.

[frogmarch]

112. Osteopaths are quacks too,

Last edited Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:16 PM - Edit history (1)

according to Thom Hartmann:

"Osteopathy is no different from Chiropractic: dangerous quackery with no medical value whatsoever."

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2010/07/osteopaths-are-not-medical-doctors-they-are-quacks

Back in the early 1980s I fell asleep reading in bed with my chin cupped in one hand, and I woke up with no feeling in that arm and with a very sore neck. X-rays showed a prolapsed disc in my neck. My MD ordered traction for me, but the nurse who set it up dropped the weights and dislocated my jaw. I popped it back into place with my hands, then got up out of the hospital bed and went home. My doctor thought it would just take time for my body to heal itself and didn't recommend surgery yet.

Weeks passed, and I was still unable to use my left arm. A neighbor recommended a certain osteopath, and thinking DOs were bone specialists, I made an appointment with him. After his manipulation I ended up in the hospital again, with paralysis of my entire left side, including the left side of my face. I was given muscle relaxants and that's about all, but it helped, and after a few days I went home.

Thirty + years later: All is well. I still can't turn my head very far to the left, but that's no big deal.

I would never go to a chiropractor or to another osteopath. I realize MDs aren't infallible, but I'll take medical science over quackery any day.

[alarimer]

113. There is no science to it at all.

Pure quackery that should not be covered by insurance. And the "spinal manipulation" can even be dangerous.

[Go Vols]

117. lol @ "no science to it"

The Doctor/ woman that did more for me than pills or surgeons through chiropractic manipulation has a Bachelor's, Master's, and Doctoral degrees( http://www.coreservices.org/node/37 ),pretty sure there was some science in there some where.

[amuse bouche]

118. I must agree though I try not to use the word quackery

People just need to do some research and see the lack of science supporting the field

If they learn about anatomy, they will usually conclude what does and does not make sense

[B2G]

123. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out

what happens when a nerve is compressed.

[crunch60]

116. Many people die from the horrible side effects of chemo and other FDA approved

meds. Should I call them quackery?

[Matariki]

120. My chiropractor is awesome

and has dramatically helped reduce my back pain, headaches, and carpel tunnel caused by my computer job. He's never tried to sell me vitamins.

Obviously we've had different experiences. Maybe *your* chiropractor was a 'quack' - but you can't speak for mine.