When will the lower middle class ( especially white men) realize that the rich play them?

[samrock]

They play them like a Stradivarius. Using the 4 strings of prejudice, hate, ignorance and fear to get them to dance to do their bidding. They do not not care 1 iota for these peoples lives, yet they line up like sheep to vote for the right. I am always amazed that ANYONE would vote based on what they hear of radio/T.V. and not what they see happening with their own two eyes.

[flamingdem]

1. That will happen

when we ban football. Until then the barbarism continues. Ring out yer dead!

[valerief]

6. I've always said sports are the training ground for soldiers and it's blind soldiering

that protects the oligarchy.

[flamingdem]

13. Me too

but very few agree with me.

I love to find anti-football people, and now it's coming to light that head injuries destroy lives, finally!

[coalition_unwilling]

20. Interestingly enough (and humorous in a dark-humor sort of way), men

who play football have been protecting their testicles for 100 years (with cups). Their brains, on the other hand?

Not sure what Darwin or Mendel would make of that

[flamingdem]

40. It's a scam like the army

$ and scholarship for possible injury and shortened life span. Darwin wouldn't find it surprising at all but Marx would have more to say.

[byeya]

22. I am strongly anti-pro football

Gave up on baseball with the use of steroids.

Better off without the pro sports.

[flamingdem]

41. Well I've never been anti-baseball

but it looks like all sports extract a price. Badminton anyone?

[RZM]

39. Sports are huge all around the world

In many places soccer is much more popular than any single sport is here. So it's pretty tough to argue that the problems you talk about are the fault of sports.

[valerief]

62. The world is full of poor, brainwashed people, too. nt

[RZM]

63. So if this brainwashing were magically removed, what would people do for entertainment?

Since apparently that would free them from the shackles of enjoying balls being kicked and thrown around.

Maybe the explanation is a whole lot simpler. Perhaps . . . people just like sports. It's part of being human. Not everybody likes them, but a lot of people do.

Yes, governments have always tried to gain advantages from sports. But they didn't invent them, nor did they invent their appeal. Competitive activities can be lots of fun.

[Kennah]

71. The Romans injected a lot into "sports" for the benefit of a crumbling empire

[Mass]

2. When we stop using the term middle class?

Right now, they are lumped with people earning $200K+ a year, who are also seen as the middle class. Sorry, but their needs are not the same.

[rfranklin]

3. The working class used to know who they were and who the bosses were...

but that all got confused when dueto the efforts of unions they got good middle class buying power in the 1960's. A factory worker could send his kids to college and have a few toys plus a pension to look forward to in retirement. They forgot or never knew how they got all those nice things. Then, as the one percenters began to take it all away, they fell for the "affirmative action" is taking your jobs bullshit hook line and sinker.

[valerief]

7. Excellent poor. Working poor is more like it. nt

[byeya]

23. People say Middle Class when they should say Middle Income.

And of course, Middle Income should be dropped in favor of a secure living wage or something similar.

[brewens]

4. You just can't convince them that the real problem is income distribution to the top.

Of course the wealthy say they don't have all the money. "Take it all and it still won't make a dent." They believe that. As if we would actually suggest "taking it all" and having taxed them reasonably all along wouldn't have made a huge difference.

Everybody is paid out of the same pot. If you let crooks at the top rake in billions through fraud and game the system to take all the money out of corporations, you come up short almost everywhere else.

They understand it when they are told it's wrong to give poor people money for doing nothing. They believe it when they are told any more help you give poor people will be taken out of their wallets. They don't understand that all along the 1% have been doing exactly that to help themselves. Of course if you tax the wealthy, it means they will have to pay higher taxes on their powerball jackpot when they win it.

[bongbong]

5. Never. NEVER

The corporatocracy controls everything & 99% of media. Failures, misery, wars, etc will all be blamed on "socialism" & "evil libruls". Uneducated fools will continue to lap up the lies.

Repeat ad nauseum.

[valerief]

8. Freedom. Boostraps. Independence. Being a man.

As long as crap like that gets tossed around, personal security is not even an option.

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. Those are all virtuous traits.

So long as we liberals insist that they are not, the answer to the OP's question is never.

[bigbrother05]

9. How long can the RW convince them unionized 3rd grade teacher is a threat?

Until it becomes clear that someone else maintaining a decent standard of living and wage, even if a public employee, is not the reason they are struggling.

If you have a decent job, you might bitch about taxes, but in your heart you appreciate decent schools, good roads, and safe neighborhoods.

When you are on the edge or over the cliff, it is easier for smooth talking liars (or flame throwing radio hosts) to redirect your concerns to their preferred targets instead of the true source of the problem.

Just as absolute power corrupts absolutely, uncontrolled capitalism seeks absolute control.

[HiPointDem]

54. Plenty of dems in leadership positions are pushing that as well.

[Speck Tater]

10. Some people are stupid enough to be played, and...

there is no cure for stupid.

[woo me with science]

11. People wake up

when they can no longer feed and protect their children.

That time is on its way.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

18. more likely if they can't get their beer

what no beer

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

12. When they get over their anger, hatred and fear of women and minorities.

[Iggo]

49. Ouch!

And exactly.

[meow2u3]

14. Plus, they use abortion and teh gay as bait and switch

In other words, the rich use wedge issues to pick their already thin pockets.

[demilib]

15. This is what scares me about next week's election in Wisconsin

It reminds me of a quote I once read: " A lie can travel around the world before the truth gets out of bed in the morning."

[LibDemAlways]

16. You are so right. Here are a few (paraphrased) quotes from people I know.

1. Husband's 90-year-old aunt:

Democrats are evil. They want to kill babies. The Republicans want to stop abortion.

2. Husband's brother-in-law:
If Obama wins again, there will be race riots. We've had enough of this shit of having a black guy in the White House.

3. My elderly aunt

Democrats only want to give everything to minorities who take their food stamp money and buy steaks. They keep having babies on my dime.

This is the mentality we're up against and it's fueled to a great extent by FAUX "News" and to some extent by the MSM that does damn little to counter it - even though they know it's all bullshit.

[coalition_unwilling]

21. LMAO (but also crying inside). If you can plant 'Blazing Saddles' on your

husband's brother-in-law and then stick around to watch his reaction when he watches it (and then, of course, report back to DU on same), your resulting escapade will last down through the ages. That's a promise

[HangOnKids]

24. One Aunt Thinks Dems Want To Kill Babies The Other Thinks Dems Want To Have Babies On Her Dime

Maybe those two should have a conversation and clobber each other with their bat shit crazy.

[treestar]

30. Husband's BIL

I'd like to ask him why it takes re-election for those race riots to start. Why didn't they occur at the initial election? Perhaps BIL can explain that one.

[SoutherDem]

33. We must be relatives

Because many in my family says the same thing.

[wwytchwood]

17. simple answers to simple questions

never - the scots-irish heritage

[coalition_unwilling]

19. The Repigs should only receive 1% of the vote, the Dems 10% and Democratic

Socialists the remaining 89%.

The longer I live, the more credence I give to P.T. Barnum's observation that "there's a sucker born every minute."

[byeya]

25. And also, "Never give a sucker an even break"

The only consolation I harbor is that there was a fundy awakening during the 20s and these same people, or most of them, because ardent New Dealers. Of course, equal protection under the law wasn't an issue then so maybe I shouldn't feel consoled.

[coalition_unwilling]

29. Back in the 20s and 30s there was a robust Socialist platform for

the working class to rally around.

Today (after 30 years of Reagan-Bushism and 60-odd years of Red-bashing\baiting)??

See post #16 upthread for attitudes common among today's working class. (#2 opinion is my fav.)

[HangOnKids]

26. That's Why Vote Rigging Has ALWAYS Existed

The rich and entitled have always had a keen eye on their wallet and the ballot box. ALWAYS.

[Tom Ripley]

27. Never. It's a tradition that began with the American Revolution.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. Okay, this is an odd post.

Who were the white men who created this country unwittingly serving?

[Tom Ripley]

61. Plantation owners named Washington, Jefferson, Rutledge, Longstreet, Byrd, etc...

[Capt.Rocky300]

28. Then there is the

great Harry S. Truman quote, “How many times do you have to get hit over the head until you figure out who’s hitting you.”
― Harry S. Truman

[coalition_unwilling]

31. Oh, man. HST never grows old. Truth in advertising: I attended high school

in his birthplace (Lamar, MO) and college in his youthful stomping grounds (Kansas City\Independence).

My favorite quote: "I don't give the Republicans hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell!" Never grows old.

[onlyadream]

32. I think there's a saying

You can't fix stupid.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

34. Maybe they do, or maybe most do realize this. Our Democratic leaders would get more votes if

they would make more of an effort to represent the populace as a whole in an FDR style instead of triangulating, discouraging at least some FDR-type Democrats, and sharing votes with Republicans.

The way to win more votes for the left is to take action consistent with liberal and progressive values instead of taking the left for granted and giving excuses.

The "the lower middle class ( especially white men)" do not want to see another wage-lowering "free-trade" agreement, no matter what the excuse. They don't want to see another extension of the Bush tax cuts. They don't want to see another bail out for the super-rich. They don't want to see de facto immunity given to the banksters and openly admitted war criminals. They don't want to see endless wars, on credit with no participation of the super-rich except to collect more wealth.

The open failure to take action consistent with liberal and progressive values instead of taking the left for granted gives the propagandists at Faux News and elsewhere encouragement to continue with their propaganda and hate talk. Such propaganda and hate talk attracts some, but not all, of those in "the lower middle class ( especially white men)."

If this Administration would aggressively target and prosecute criminals whose policies are supported by the propagandists at Faux News and elsewhere, such as those who engaged in torture and other war crimes, it would take away support for Faux News and the other propagandists in the MSM.

[HiPointDem]

55. +1. It's really tiresome to see the canard "lower-class white men are stupid" being pushed.

In fact, lower-class white men are more likely to vote dem than middle-class white men or upper-class white men, all else being equal. Not that it's done them any good for the last 40 years.

[leftstreet]

73. +1

[SoutherDem]

35. Never!?

Not until we separate the church and state.

Not until we educate the "lower middle class" to realize the 1% don't give a care for them.

[lumberjack_jeff]

36. People generally view politics through a group identity lens.

So long as we liberals continue to use the phrase "white male" as a pejorative, it's unlikely to change.

This thread is an excellent example of the kind of condescension that the normal person would find repellent.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2008/05/obama_and_orwell.html

Orwell also rails against the condescension many on the left display toward those they profess to care most about. Describing a gathering of leftists in London, he says, "every person there, male and female, bore the worst stigmata of sniffish middle-class superiority. If a real working man, a miner dirty from the pit, for instance, had suddenly walked into their midst, they would have been embarrassed, angry and disgusted; some, I should think, would have fled holding their noses."...
The perennial struggle of Democratic contenders to appeal to ordinary Americans seems very much of a piece with Orwell's sharp descriptions. Election after election, Democrats argue that once Joe and Jane Sixpack fully grasp the wisdom of the latest six-point college-loan program, or of an 800-page health-care scheme, they will come to wave the Democratic banner. And, sometimes, these voters do just that—provided that the candidate in question has demonstrated a sense that he or she is not treating them as the subject of an anthropological study. Bill Clinton had a full steamer trunk of domestic programs; he also was a product of Georgetown, Oxford, and Yale Law School. But his 18 years in the vineyards of Arkansas politics gave him the tools to compete for support on a more visceral level. Then there were Clinton's obvious tastes for earthly pleasures—from Big Macs to more intimate diversions—which made it very hard to label him as an aloof elitist.

[flamingdem]

43. We're not in England, many Dems are union workers

so working class does not mean one has to be in the right wing tribe

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. I'm data-driven.

I'm a liberal even though it means I have to associate with people who think that by virtue of my race/gender/profession, I'm probably an ignorant gun-toting drunken zealot for whom bowling and watching football is the limit of my cognitive capacity.

To them, It's incumbent on me to prove otherwise, and like most people, most white guys aren't adequately fact-driven to feel sufficient motivation to do so.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. It will start when they realize class

As in social class, is real. They don't

Also when Horatio Alger stops being part of the myth.

[ladjf]

38. Same thing with the religious right. They are stooges,fed a few crumbs by those who they support.

[Fresh_Start]

42. Never nt

nt

[Iggo]

44. As a group? Never. (n/t)

[Cleita]

45. Mike Pappantonio called them cannon fodder, a label from the Civil War.

Poor white soldiers, who believed they were fighting a common cause with the Confederacy, were put in front of the cannons first. They thought they had a common cause with the rich plantation owners, but the rich plantation owners considered them expendable. It seems like nothing has changed in the thinking.

[southernyankeebelle]

46. The problem is they have the heads up their asses. LOL They is where you got to pull them

from. Forget the football we can always get rid of the electrical power. Oh there are some who are lower middle class that doesn't buy the bullshit.

[Stargleamer]

50. When will millions (now billions) of dollars of negative ads cease to have an effect?

"The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind"

[hfojvt]

51. this thread may help to explain why that does not happen

you say "THEY don't care one iota for these peoples' lives"

but many of the replies here show that WE do not care one iota for these people. We have an unhealthy supply of contempt for them. Given that fairly obvious fact which is all to easily observed, doesn't it become a hard sell to convince these people we sneer at that WE care one iota for their lives?

Metaphorical death of a sales pitch.

Salesman rings the doorbell. Woman answers, salesman begins his pitch.

"Excuse me, ma'am, I can see you are a blithering idiot, probably too stupid to buy the fantastic product I am selling ..."

[SpartanDem]

52. Agreed it's like Republicans making racial marks about Blacks

and then wondering why we don't vote for them.

[HiPointDem]

56. +1. When will upper-class dems stop denigrating their own constituencies?

[lumberjack_jeff]

59. Agree. n/t

[RZM]

66. Absolutely correct

Step one is not calling them stupid, racist, assholes. They will not listen to people who double-down on the condescension right out of the gate.

The right wing establishment may be playing a shell game with them, but at least they have the sense to not make fun of them while doing so.

[jp11]

70. Well said.

[HiPointDem]

53. When will dems stop dealing in stereotypes?

Among whites without a college degree, income has become a stronger predictor of the vote over time. But actually it’s those with less income, not more income, who are more likely to support Democratic presidential candidates. And again, there certainly no trend by which whites with below-average incomes and no college degree become more Republican.

http://electiondissection.blogspot.com/2012/02/some-more-data-on-voting-of-lower.html


The richer you are, the more likely you are to vote Republican. Middle-class whites more likely to vote Republican than lower-class ones.

[Egalitarian Thug]

57. When all the televisions spontaneously melt and the the broadcast infrastructure is swallowed

by the earth.

Seriously, the one unifying factor among nearly all Americans is their obsession with anything that comes out of that stupid box. They believe anything it tells them, they buy anything it sells, and will even compromise their personal beliefs and change their lives to conform with whatever it tells them is "cool, sexy, what-the-smart-people-are-doing, will make you better than you are, etc.", not matter how bizarre or contradictory to reality.

[TheKentuckian]

58. About an hour after it is too late to do a damn thing about it short of massive bloodshed.

Oh, they will be both white hot furious and crestfallen all at once but only after all the effective ladders have been pulled up will they see and anyone focused on a path to prevent such that depends on them seeing quicker is fooling themselves and everyone else as well.

As usual through history they will have to be run over or run around and allowed to resentfully and dishonestly play catch up after history has passed them by and even then a significant minority will ever work to restore the old order. What we deal with now are the sprouts of the last round of old seeds. None of this is new, just kinda new seeming to a brief frame of reference.

They won't be convinced or placated, they almost never are. Any examples are sparse even given a free hand to scour 10,000 years or so. They aren't going to sweep themselves into the dustbin of history nor will they be cajoled there. Sweeping is not a passive action, the dust gets a beating and thoroughly disrupted.

We are dead as fried chicken if we wait for these sleepers to awaken or dare fool our selves that everyone is convincible. Too damn many will consistently and willfully support the interests and whims of the ruling class, it is their nature. They crave such authority, it is their view of the natural order and I suspect can only be curbed over thousands of years that include major stress points that really shape the course of human events but even then it would not be eliminated because it is carried in the genes more than likely, a vestigial thing from ages gone past.

[whistler162]

64. NAIOP - Not Another Idiotic Original Post!

[Major Nikon]

65. There was a time when it wasn't that way

The AMT came along in the late 60's because people were fed up with the rich not paying taxes.

[Doctor_J]

67. When we obliterate the propaganda mechanism

not before.

[alittlelark]

68. When they get over their FEAR.

Likely - never. They are deeply fearful . They see ppl that LOOK like them telling them that their blue collar fears are due to browns, blacks and the over-educated elite.....

They see 'the other side' populated with browns, blacks, WOMEN, LGBT .... Their fearful mind will not accept 'message'. They are too deep into FEAR.

I do feel sorry for them. When we had union strength we were able to help them assuage their fear enough to be able to THINK.

The Union busting that started in the '80's is bearing ugly fearful fruit.

[CoffeeCat]

69. Awesome question. I wonder too!

I have a die-hard Glenn Beck fan for a neighbor. He spouts the talking points so well. How the
rich are paying too many taxes and how the Bush tax cuts need to be extended. How Social
Security and other social programs are a waste of money--and how the banks need to be regulated
LESS.

All of the talking points--filtered down from the Koch Brothers, the elites, the millionaires and the billionaires--into
the mouths of the right-wing-talk-radio blowhards. People like my neighbor listen intently to the anger,
hyperbole, fear and general hysteria spewed daily on Beck, Fox and the rest of the right-wing shows. He thinks
he's a man-in-the-know--a real connoisseur of knowledge. Beck has him convinced that he has the "real scoop"
and that he's privy to the ultimate truth that the liberal media won't tell him.

Truth is--if you break it down--what my neighbor leverages is the welfare and continued power of millionaires,
billionaires, corporations and other mucky mucks who have destroyed our democracy and turned out government
into a bought-and-paid-for joke. Meanwhile, Mr. Neighbor rails against Obama and gives Republicans a free
pass at every turn. Meanwhile, these elites that my neighbor aids--are the ones who have decimated it all--by
purchasing the majority of our politicians in BOTH parties.

It's just pathetic how these middle-class white guys are used. I used to feel sorry for them. I don't anymore.
I have pity on how stupid and gullible they are. Furthermore, Beck has them convinced that they are the smartest
and most informed guys in the room--and that anyone who doesn't like Beck--is an idiot. So, intelligent and
rational conversation with these guys is utterly useless. The hubris of these people is intolerable. They are menaces
who are so blind to the fact that they are being used like cheap whores to toe the line for greedy power mongers who
laugh their assess off at people like my neighbor.

Seriously, the shit will really hit the fan when people like my neighbor realize what we all ready know--that both
parties have been commandeered by Fascists who hate democracy and "We The People". My neighbor points
the finger at Obama, but he's so blind and he's so brainwashed by Beck--that he doesn't see that it's the entire
system.

I actually think that Obama was and is a good guy. However, what has metastasized in our democracy--is bigger
and more powerful than the Presidency.

When these guys realize that they're had--I'd say that there will be a collective psychic meltdown in all of them, because
they've been the ones the most used and the most bamboozled. Beck practically has their egos tied up in all
of his lies being true. If it's not true, then they are the world's biggest idiotic sheep. And they are. They just
don't know it yet.

There will be hell to pay when these fools realize what's been going on.

[0rganism]

72. In the words of Upton Sinclair

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"