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"Political Correctness" (Original Post) kpete Jan 2016 OP
Will the term "master bedroom" no longer exist? Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #1
And if it doesn't? Brickbat Jan 2016 #4
Well, "owner's suite" may still have an unpleasant connotation, Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #10
You seem oppressed. LanternWaste Jan 2016 #13
Yep. I want a CHRISTMAS TREE in my MASTER BEDROOM! Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #15
And a whole shitload of Christmas lights so I can waste energy. eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Jan 2016 #57
Main bedroom Funtatlaguy Jan 2016 #26
Words do matter. I grew up with words such as fireman, policeman, mailman, chairman instead of seaglass Jan 2016 #17
It will now be spelled "Mastur Bedroom" Bucky Jan 2016 #19
Masturbate Room better? Glassunion Jan 2016 #20
We're renaming the shower too? tymorial Jan 2016 #28
Nope. Just do air quotes when you say: Shower Glassunion Jan 2016 #46
The proper term is masturbatorium. Ace Rothstein Jan 2016 #60
No that's the glass room where you grow plants and stuff... Glassunion Jan 2016 #94
Honestly, I couldn't care less what they call it. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2016 #44
Why not just call it a suite? boobooday Jan 2016 #67
Sigh leftynyc Jan 2016 #2
Holy crap! BillZBubb Jan 2016 #3
No - no difference whatsoever leftynyc Jan 2016 #6
The difference is that JTFrog Jan 2016 #37
Wow leftynyc Jan 2016 #39
It's not about you. n/t JTFrog Jan 2016 #40
When it comes to my leftynyc Jan 2016 #50
Your opinion is yours. But the issue is not about you. JTFrog Jan 2016 #83
Really? leftynyc Jan 2016 #86
From the culture of misogyny. JTFrog Jan 2016 #89
Just because I don't agree leftynyc Jan 2016 #91
Protection from words? outside of a workplace context I do not agree. nt kelly1mm Jan 2016 #101
Wait, what? His opinion is not about him? Isn't that definitially about him? nt kelly1mm Jan 2016 #61
Wasn't referring to their opinion. n/t JTFrog Jan 2016 #82
I'm a her leftynyc Jan 2016 #88
Women can be just as sexist and misogynistic as men. n/t JTFrog Jan 2016 #90
LOL leftynyc Jan 2016 #92
I called you neither. JTFrog Jan 2016 #93
Sorry! nt kelly1mm Jan 2016 #98
No offense taken leftynyc Jan 2016 #109
wurdz DustyJoe Jan 2016 #76
Do you think people should be "whining" when you call a man a prick or a dick? Brickbat Jan 2016 #5
Nope leftynyc Jan 2016 #7
Why not? Brickbat Jan 2016 #8
Because I consider it just leftynyc Jan 2016 #11
Do you feel that everyone who calls out language they consider objectionable to be looking for Brickbat Jan 2016 #18
Depends leftynyc Jan 2016 #33
How do you decide? Brickbat Jan 2016 #42
Using my brain leftynyc Jan 2016 #54
What criteria do you use to determine whether a word is offensive and you won't use it? Brickbat Jan 2016 #68
Whether I, leftynyc Jan 2016 #80
What is the difference between discussing the disturbing qualities of a word with you, and whining Brickbat Jan 2016 #96
A vast difference leftynyc Jan 2016 #110
So it's the tone of the objection you get, and not the objection itself? Brickbat Jan 2016 #111
No - I have no objection leftynyc Jan 2016 #112
But is it a one-time, first-time thing? Like, once someone says they object to "bitch" as a Brickbat Jan 2016 #113
If polite leftynyc Jan 2016 #114
Thanks for so succinctly illustrating the point. You want to be able to call women "bitches" el_bryanto Jan 2016 #12
Spare me the hyperbolic bullshit leftynyc Jan 2016 #14
I'm probably one of the least fans of political correctness on this board, Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #16
The b-word is, for better or worse, like the n-word. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #21
And where do you stand leftynyc Jan 2016 #34
I see "dick" as very mild and wouldn't hesitate to use it. Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #41
That DU leftynyc Jan 2016 #53
"Suck it up and be a fucking adult about it" Act_of_Reparation Jan 2016 #23
What on earth are you talking about? leftynyc Jan 2016 #36
I'm talking about you not being the best judge of what constitutes adult behavior. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2016 #45
Bawling my eyes out? leftynyc Jan 2016 #56
I have to agree with you, and I don't think the left (which is, sadly, where you find most of this) Marr Jan 2016 #73
That's true - there are plenty of assholes out there el_bryanto Jan 2016 #29
I have no problem with leftynyc Jan 2016 #38
Personally I agree with you BUT... randome Jan 2016 #47
You know leftynyc Jan 2016 #58
Results of your jury service DeadLetterOffice Jan 2016 #69
Thank you for leaving the post standing leftynyc Jan 2016 #85
You're not welcome. DeadLetterOffice Jan 2016 #104
I'm a woman leftynyc Jan 2016 #107
For the most part, "political correctness" is a strawman and a deflection tool..... Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2016 #9
I largely agree but I also view that cartoon as an example of splitting tymorial Jan 2016 #48
It can go too far. The trick is where to draw the line. Glassunion Jan 2016 #22
Please..... don't post pictures of racist sandwiches without a trigger warning (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #25
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2016 #27
That's because white people have cultural power that black people don't el_bryanto Jan 2016 #30
Post removed Post removed Jan 2016 #31
That is inaccurate - if you are a white male you do get cultural deference el_bryanto Jan 2016 #32
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2016 #35
I don't know what "Name removed" said, but your explanation is correct. hunter Jan 2016 #49
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2016 #74
Oh, like "All Lives Matter?" Got it. hunter Jan 2016 #77
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2016 #81
I think we can all agree that rude and bullying behavior needs to stop el_bryanto Jan 2016 #79
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2016 #99
Well we don't really know - we've never really had a level playing field el_bryanto Jan 2016 #100
I still think that frame is kinda dumb hfojvt Jan 2016 #71
Well that was a response to someone new el_bryanto Jan 2016 #75
everything is there hfojvt Jan 2016 #95
You can continue choosing not to see reality; that's your right. el_bryanto Jan 2016 #102
reality is a funny thing hfojvt Jan 2016 #105
I noticed that in that word salad you didn't choose to provide examples; could you please? nt el_bryanto Jan 2016 #108
Don't mess with janitors. They really run things. kwassa Jan 2016 #87
I am a janitor hfojvt Jan 2016 #97
The world of security has changed ... kwassa Jan 2016 #106
+1 Blue_Tires Jan 2016 #43
Bingo underpants Jan 2016 #51
PC in Cologne: 100 women sexually assaulted, mayor calls for cultural understanding LittleBlue Jan 2016 #52
I guess that's PC speak for "keep your fucking hands off our women" (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #59
Same mayor also said women must learn to keep their distance to avoid sexual assault LittleBlue Jan 2016 #63
Wow, I never realized that preventing sexual assault was so easy. Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #64
If you can believe it, the mayor is a woman LittleBlue Jan 2016 #66
It is somewhat subjective, of course. earthside Jan 2016 #55
FALSE: The word 'picnic' originated with crowds gathering to witness lynchings. Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #62
This kind of PC makes those who invoke it look like idiots. earthside Jan 2016 #70
Trump has "no time" for pollitical correctness. Democrats_win Jan 2016 #65
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2016 #72
“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.” mwrguy Jan 2016 #78
This message was self-deleted by its author RandiFan1290 Jan 2016 #84
The real question is addressing discrimination whether it's arthritisR_US Jan 2016 #103

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
1. Will the term "master bedroom" no longer exist?
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:00 AM
Jan 2016
Some designers, architects, developers are moving towards a more politically-correct term for the largest room in the house.

Would you ever call your master bedroom, an "Owner's Suite"? Or what about "Owner's Bedroom?" An article on Gawker cited a survey from the Washington Business Journal that found some real estate developers in the Washington, D.C. area no longer use the term "Master Bedroom" in their floor plans. Some people believe that there are negative connotations to the term, gender-wise and historically. Of the survey of 10 homebuilders in the D.C. area, six no longer use the word. Instead, they're using "Owner's suite," "Owner's bedroom," or "Mastre Bedroom." In fact, some in the industry, such as Brian Block, managing broker for McLean's RE/Max Allegiance, told the Washington Business Journal that he prefers those terms because they imply a luxurious space with a lavish bath and custom closets.

http://www.housebeautiful.com/lifestyle/fun-at-home/a1087/master-bedroom-politically-incorrect/

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
10. Well, "owner's suite" may still have an unpleasant connotation,
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:30 AM
Jan 2016

as in "slave owner".

So I guess we go with "mastre bedroom" (not sure of the pronounciation).

Anyway, I need to get back to taking down my Christmas tree. Er, I mean Holiday tree.

Response to GGJohn (Reply #24)

seaglass

(8,173 posts)
17. Words do matter. I grew up with words such as fireman, policeman, mailman, chairman instead of
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jan 2016

firefighter, police officer, mail carrier, chairperson - it makes a difference to be INCLUDED and language helps to change perception.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,189 posts)
44. Honestly, I couldn't care less what they call it.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:31 PM
Jan 2016

In my house, it's called "Mom and Dad's room, so stay out, kids."

boobooday

(7,869 posts)
67. Why not just call it a suite?
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:33 PM
Jan 2016

Two bedrooms plus a suite implies one room is a larger room plus a bath.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
2. Sigh
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:01 AM
Jan 2016

This isn't the rabid pc nonsense that you seem to be referring to. I got blasted for calling a woman (she's a trump supporter on tv) a bitch because that's misogynist - that I consider nothing but utter bullshit and whining for the sake of whining. I sure as hell don't see anyone whining when I call a man a prick or a dick. There is nothing wrong with watching what you say so as to not insult someone but it's been taken to an absurd level and made being politically correct nothing but a sad joke.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
3. Holy crap!
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:07 AM
Jan 2016

You don't see a difference between calling a man a prick or dick and calling a woman a bitch? Really????

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
37. The difference is that
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:22 PM
Jan 2016

women historically have had that word thrown at them while being discriminated against, sexually assaulted or getting the shit beat out of them. It's a word that is commonly used to degrade and belittle women. (like the n-word used against AA's)

There isn't that connotation with "dick" or "prick", however, I don't believe they should be used as insults either.

FFS.



 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
39. Wow
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:28 PM
Jan 2016

I completely disagree. Yes, men (and other women) have used the word to demean. I can take it and don't need protection from it from anyone. Just my opinion.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
50. When it comes to my
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:08 PM
Jan 2016

opinion, which is every bit as valid as yours, yes, it is about me. Every women can decide for herself what kind of language they wish to have fits over.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
83. Your opinion is yours. But the issue is not about you.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:02 PM
Jan 2016

It's about the millions of women who just might need that protection you have such disdain for.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
86. Really?
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:12 PM
Jan 2016

Protection from words? I think women need protection from some religions, from some cultures, from some people in their lives. Not from words. I honestly can't believe I'm even having this discussion but whatever.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
89. From the culture of misogyny.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:14 PM
Jan 2016

The word is heavily embedded in the history of misogyny. Like I pointed out in my first post to you.

You can't believe you are having this conversation and I'm done having a conversation that is only going to fall on deaf ears.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
91. Just because I don't agree
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:16 PM
Jan 2016

with you doesn't mean I'm not listening. I'm a very well educated person who lives in a melting pot city and I honestly had no idea that the "b" word (is that better?) was so contentious.

DustyJoe

(849 posts)
76. wurdz
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:54 PM
Jan 2016

So would it seem quid-pro-quo if a woman called a man a prick, a vulgar term for male genitalia, that she should not be ruffled by being called a vulgar term for female genitalia then ?

Language, such a play on words and how they're used. People, any people using any words intended to emotionally hurt another is not politically correct IMO at least.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
7. Nope
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:22 AM
Jan 2016

Unless they don't think he's a dick or a prick and are arguing on those valid points. I don't think they should be whining about calling a woman a bitch either.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
11. Because I consider it just
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:33 AM
Jan 2016

someone who is looking for reasons to whine. Why is one so insulting but not the other (bitch v prick)? I'm a women who doesn't need protection from words and wont have a fit of the vapors because of a word.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
18. Do you feel that everyone who calls out language they consider objectionable to be looking for
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 11:02 AM
Jan 2016

reasons to whine?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
33. Depends
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:16 PM
Jan 2016

on what they're complaining about. Some words are obviously out of bounds and shouldn't ever be used in polite society EVER. I don't put bitch into that category at all.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
54. Using my brain
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:11 PM
Jan 2016

How does anyone decide? I can only tell you what I find offensive, words I wouldn't use. I don't try and tell others what they should be insulted about.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
80. Whether I,
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:00 PM
Jan 2016

my friends or my family in discussions about such issues find words disturbing. It's not rocket science. Have you seen the kerfuffle about calling the main bedroom in a house the master bedroom? That's the kind of shit I'm talking about.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
96. What is the difference between discussing the disturbing qualities of a word with you, and whining
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:22 PM
Jan 2016

about it? Besides your proximity or relation to the other person, I mean.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
110. A vast difference
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 04:05 PM
Jan 2016

When I got blasted for using the "b" word (I have no desire to be accused of using a word that gives people the vapors over and over) - it wasnt' someone politely informing me they find the word harsh and sexist. No I was BLASTED as a misogynist, called a woman hater and was accused of supporting a patriarchy. That's the difference between whining and discussing.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
112. No - I have no objection
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 04:34 PM
Jan 2016

if someone points out something is hurtful to some politely. Why on earth would I?

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
113. But is it a one-time, first-time thing? Like, once someone says they object to "bitch" as a
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 05:08 PM
Jan 2016

sexist slur, but they're crabby about it, that's it, the word is fair game for you? Or if someone were to say to you now, politely, that "bitch" is often seen as a sexist slur and they object to you using it, would you consider the word "off limits" like other words in your vocabulary?

And I'm curious, what are some of those other words?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
114. If polite
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 05:32 PM
Jan 2016

I would acknowledge their feelings and try not to use it again. In fact, I hadn't used it here (I'm pretty sure) again until this story but that had little to do with the person who crucified me and called me some very nasty names for using it in the first place. It could be what turned me off political correctness but I doubt it was only that. It's like using the word terrorist for every criminal you don't like - it has lost all meaning. I have no desire to list the words I find objectionable. Someone would probably alert and get it hidden anyway.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
12. Thanks for so succinctly illustrating the point. You want to be able to call women "bitches"
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:37 AM
Jan 2016

Political correctness gets in the way. So down with political correctness.

Bryant

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
14. Spare me the hyperbolic bullshit
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:40 AM
Jan 2016

and hysteria. It was just one example of political correctness losing all its meaning because it's used to squelch all speech that some may find offensive. I've got news for you, there is no law against offending someone and you're not going to like what everyone says all day every day. Suck it up and be a fucking adult about it.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
16. I'm probably one of the least fans of political correctness on this board,
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:53 AM
Jan 2016

but I would no more refer to a woman as a "bitch" than I would use the n-word to describe a black person. "Bitch" when applied to a woman is a grossly offensive sexual stereotype.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
21. The b-word is, for better or worse, like the n-word.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 11:16 AM
Jan 2016
I can (mostly) get away with "bitch" because I'm female (and, truth be told, a bit of a bitch). A male? Not so much.

I have very mixed feelings about that situation.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
41. I see "dick" as very mild and wouldn't hesitate to use it.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:30 PM
Jan 2016

"Prick" seems more vulgar and it's just not a word I tend to use. But both are very much less offensive than calling a woman a bitch. If that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes I can't control that. But it's not just me. If you start a DU thread with the title "Carly Fiorina is such a bitch" it is very likely to be hidden by a jury. "Donald Trump is a prick", on the other hand, will almost never be hidden.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
53. That DU
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:09 PM
Jan 2016

has lots of hypocrites on issues like PC and religion is not news to me. I've been here a very long time. Maybe it's because I'm a NYer - swearing comes second nature and while there is a word I would NEVER call a woman, bitch isn't it and seems pretty mild to me.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
23. "Suck it up and be a fucking adult about it"
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 11:32 AM
Jan 2016

Kinda like calling people bitches?

If you're going to insult people and demand they nonchalantly shrug it off, the least you could do is lead by example. Like, not whining about people whining about you, for example.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
36. What on earth are you talking about?
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:20 PM
Jan 2016

I didn't insult anyone except for those who are so worried about being politically correct they have stifled not only their own speech but feel free to whine about everyone else's and have taken it to such absurd levels the entire meaning of being polite has been bastardized into oblivion. Does that describe you?

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
45. I'm talking about you not being the best judge of what constitutes adult behavior.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:46 PM
Jan 2016

Par example: You're demanding people grow thicker skin while bawling your fucking eyes out because somebody you don't know called you a sexist on the internet. Then there's that part where you tried to dictate to people what they should or should not find offensive. That was pretty childish of you.

It's all so difficult to follow, I know, but sometimes the situation demands a little critical self-reflection.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
56. Bawling my eyes out?
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:13 PM
Jan 2016

Where am I whining in the slightest? I don't care if someone online calls me a sexist - why on earth should I care? I just stated what happened and you call that whining? No wonder the pc police seem to have such a hold on you. You claiming I'm whining is such a ridiculous response, you have actually literally made me laugh out loud.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
73. I have to agree with you, and I don't think the left (which is, sadly, where you find most of this)
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:44 PM
Jan 2016

is doing itself any favors.

This kind of hypersensitive stretch to be offended and make the world into your personal 'safe space' just crawls up most peoples' asses.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
29. That's true - there are plenty of assholes out there
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:04 PM
Jan 2016

Assholes say assholish things - I can't control that. I can choose not to be an asshole myself, though. And I can choose to point out assholish behavior if I see it. And if they don't like it they can suck it up and be a fucking adult about it.

Bryant

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
38. I have no problem with
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:25 PM
Jan 2016

a difference of opinion on this issue. It's other's DEMANDING that I use (or not use) certain language otherwise I'm a horrible person. And the crap they take offense to just makes me roll my eyes. I'm not asking for laws to be passed and if you want to call me out, knock yourself out. I don't need protection from the PC police and I'm not in favor of treating everyone like a child who needs to be protected from words. Their are obviously some words out of bounds that should NEVER be used (in my opinion), I find it hard to make that argument when that same word is used in popular music all the time but whatever. Tis why I don't take any of this crap seriously at all and just say what I want. I manage not to get my ass kicked or insult people every single day by ignoring the new pc rules.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
47. Personally I agree with you BUT...
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:58 PM
Jan 2016

...since some words are considered by society at large to be demeaning, I don't see the problem in 'giving in' to that opinion. Simply find another way to express yourself. The English language is infinitely variable.

Arguing for the 'right' to use the word 'bitch'...well, nothing good can come of that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
58. You know
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:17 PM
Jan 2016

that was just an example - a personal one - of what happens on DU every single day. Maybe I shouldn't have used it because I truly don't care what anonymous people think about my use of language but I honestly find the demands of some people to protect others from words to be much more demeaning and paternalistic than the use of the words themselves. Again, just my opinion.

DeadLetterOffice

(1,352 posts)
69. Results of your jury service
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:34 PM
Jan 2016

Brought to you by juror #1

On Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:23 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Sigh
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7503818

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling a woman a bitch is sexist bullshit that doesn't belong on DU. And complaigning about getting a hidden post on DU for it is just doubling down... and later in thread triples down. Completely insensitive and over the top inappropriate for DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:33 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This was tough. The actual post alerted on isn't calling anyone a bitch. If it were, I'd vote to hide in a second.
But posting about why he should be allowed to call a woman a bitch, while head-bangingly sexist, is also an opportunity to explain to the poster WHY it's head-bangingly sexist.
So I vote to leave it, reluctantly, and acknowledging hiding it may be just as legitimate.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I am a woman and the poster here may have a valid point. Reviling a political opponent is not censured in the same way on DU. I vote to let this stand - whether one believes the poster is correct here or not, such a post should be allowed to be discussed on DU.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Sadly, the poster persists in using these slurs
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: What's next, calling a woman a c*nt? Stop it.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Tough one. But its the double down and the triple down ... it DOES seem to be an effort to say it again and get away with it which seems dishonest. Reducing a woman to "bitch" is wrong and while I get the sense the alerted member wasn't trying to that at first, he crossed the line with this and the subsequent posts.
 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
85. Thank you for leaving the post standing
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:09 PM
Jan 2016

First off, the alerter who claimed I had a post hidden is simply wrong, it was not hidden, I was just blasted for using the word bitch. I honestly don't remember ever calling a woman a bitch on DU before so was very surprised at the attitude I had committed some heinous crime and after watching what is allowed and what isn't, I spoke out about how arbitrary I find the whole pc concept. Everyone finds something offensive - that's hardly my problem. I find offensive shit on this board every single day and I suck it up.

The person who said I persist in using the slurs is so ridiculous. If I hadn't gotten complaints that led to a discussion, I wouldn't have used it more than once so that charge is complete bullshit. We're discussing using a word, how can I do that without using the word? Call it the "b" word? Are we really reduced to that?

Anyway, I do appreciate the 5 jurors who let the discussion stand. Another thing that has gotten out of hand on DU are the constant alerts (and I'm not talking about me, this was my first alert in at least 6 months). Just more evidence the pc culture has us by the ovaries.

DeadLetterOffice

(1,352 posts)
104. You're not welcome.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 03:17 PM
Jan 2016

Seriously dude -- "Just more evidence the pc culture has us by the ovaries" ????

You are WAY missing the point of 'please don't be misogynistic.' I'm so regretting giving you the benefit of the doubt now...


 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
107. I'm a woman
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 03:59 PM
Jan 2016

would you have been happier if I said the pc culture has us by the balls (which I don't have). See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. It appears we can use sexist language for men but not for women. I'm not okay with that and find the whole thing arbitrary bullshit.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,189 posts)
9. For the most part, "political correctness" is a strawman and a deflection tool.....
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:30 AM
Jan 2016

...by people who wish to express views that range from unpopular to bigoted but fear social backlash.

Every once in a while, people go way overboard on what might be considered offensive and it is somewhat obnoxious. And sure, those situations might be ripe for mockery, but I don't think that's what's at issue the majority of times.

Way too often, it's a screen used to excuse genuinely offensive expression--which while technically permitted under the First Amendment still remains offensive--just like "I have friends who are X" is.

tymorial

(3,433 posts)
48. I largely agree but I also view that cartoon as an example of splitting
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:03 PM
Jan 2016

Quite often, political correctness is used as a blunt object to deflect all criticism from those who take issue with obvious offensive language.

At the same time there is a tendency by some to dismiss all debate concerning free speech, free expression and differing ideas as abject misogyny, bigotry and/or racism. It causes some to be silent; afraid to express themselves out of the fear that their opinions may be misconstrued or taken out of context. Some view the silence of others as evidence of bigotry while others view silence as evidence that opinions are censored. The all or nothing view point lacks nuance and is in my opinion a product of identity politics. I realize that statement may not be popular and may cause me to be flamed but it is my opinion that splitting rarely produces positive outcomes.... just further polarization.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
22. It can go too far. The trick is where to draw the line.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 11:25 AM
Jan 2016

For the most part political correctness is just good manners, however some folks do indeed get offended at everything.

The good thing is there is no government entity that enforces good manners, so there is in all honesty nothing stopping you from speaking your mind. The trick is you may offend someone, and everyone has different levels of how easily they are offended. So sooner or later, no matter how polite you are, you will offend someone.

Remember: Being politically correct, does not by default make you correct.

Response to kpete (Original post)

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
30. That's because white people have cultural power that black people don't
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:06 PM
Jan 2016

Men have cultural power that woman don't. When white men get made fun of it doesn't stop them from basically running everything; when women and minorities get made fun of and attacked it perpetuates a fundamentally unjust society, in which woman and minorities are not given the same cultural deference and opportunities that white males get.

Welcome to DU by the way; I hope you enjoy your stay.

Bryant

Response to el_bryanto (Reply #30)

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
32. That is inaccurate - if you are a white male you do get cultural deference
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:15 PM
Jan 2016

We have a textbook example of it playing out in Oregon right now; the police seem to have no trouble cracking down on black people carrying toy guns or being the slightest bit disrespectful. Armed white people occupy federal property and nothing is done.

How did you find out about DU by the way? Do you consider yourself a Democrat?

Bryant

Response to el_bryanto (Reply #32)

hunter

(38,322 posts)
49. I don't know what "Name removed" said, but your explanation is correct.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:05 PM
Jan 2016

People can call me any names they like but it has no impact on my social privileges as a white male.

So long as I act and dress as a white middle class male I'm automatically granted the privileges of a white middle class male.

Even when I'm not wearing the costume of an ordinary white middle class male, I'm still treated with more respect than any non-white person or woman ever would be.

When I was a troubled kid in college, the cops would take me home. I'm pretty sure non-white males in a similar state were more often beaten and bullied (or worse...) and women in a similar state were abused in sexist and sexual ways.

Response to hunter (Reply #49)

Response to hunter (Reply #77)

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
79. I think we can all agree that rude and bullying behavior needs to stop
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:57 PM
Jan 2016

Like denigrating minorities or woman for example. On the other hand pointing out that some white males are assholes isn't nearly as big a deal. That's one of the advantages of being a white male - you are treated far more as an individual.

Bryant

Response to el_bryanto (Reply #79)

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
100. Well we don't really know - we've never really had a level playing field
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:45 PM
Jan 2016

I think though, that denigrating individual white males as assholes who continue to spout racist nonsense, might be productive.

Bryant

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
71. I still think that frame is kinda dumb
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:36 PM
Jan 2016

"white men are running everything".

Uh-huh. So even a janitor like me is somehow "running everything". Because 10 of the top 10 in the Forbes 400 are white males (and are their wives somehow 'poor and powerless'?) that somehow makes EVERY white male rich and powerful? Even the ones sleeping in the homeless shelter tonight - they are running everything because their artificial sub-group is?

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
75. Well that was a response to someone new
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:54 PM
Jan 2016

Everybody has a list of advantages and disadvantages based on their personal experience, their educational opportunities, their work, and their race/gender (and other things too I'm sure). Many if not most white males don't have the advantages to become wealthy and powerful. Some minorities and some women are lucky enough to have enough advantages to overcome the problems their race/gender create for them.

But that doesn't change the fact that on every white male's list, whatever other disadvantages/advantages he has, are the advantages he gets from being a white male. Are those automatically enough to overcome other personal conditions and render that white male wealthy and powerful? No. But they are there.

Bryant

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
95. everything is there
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:21 PM
Jan 2016

a hydrogen molecule might be there - but that does not mean its weight is a significant factor.

Having actually experienced the supposed advantages in being a white male, I don't believe they amount to squat in the real world.

In fact, one of those supposed advantages seems to be that because of the supposed advantages for white males, that it is always okay to insult them as a group.

What a privilege.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
102. You can continue choosing not to see reality; that's your right.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:48 PM
Jan 2016

I'm sorry your feelings are hurt when White Males are insulted as a group; could you provide some examples of that happening though?

Bryant

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
105. reality is a funny thing
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 03:21 PM
Jan 2016

If I walk off the edge of a roof, I experience the reality of gravity no matter what I believe, or what I "see".

If I choose to not see the reality of the door here and just keep walking - reality asserts itself when I slam into the door.

So why can I choose to not see this particular "reality"? Perhaps because it is not really real, it's somebody's idea that they (and their adherents) fervently believe. Or alternatively, it IS real, just like the existence of Pluto, but it is too small and too far away to have much impact on anything.

Feeling? Puh-lease. I am male, the only emotion I ever experience is anger. Even pain just causes anger.

The whole notion though that

Person A calls person B a name, and that is a huge offense while
Person B calls person A a name, and that does not matter

based on the color of skin or gender, (or sexual orientation, etc.) that just seems like a bullsh*t double standard. One which I will always call out, no matter how much some people try to justify their hatred of some groups of people.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
97. I am a janitor
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:27 PM
Jan 2016

I don't run anything.

But I do sorta have keys to the kingdom. Although less so now.

About five years ago there was a break in, a computer got stolen from an office. So the offices got re-keyed.

I found that to be ironic. When I started the job, on day 2 I had the keys to all the offices. Ten years later, even when I was promoted to the awesome status position of janitorial supervisor (I know, you are probably tempted to genuflect when you read that) I did not have keys to the offices.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
106. The world of security has changed ...
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 03:23 PM
Jan 2016

I remember going through airport security to meet my wife at the gate. The box cutters in my pocket set off the alarm, I showed them to security, they handed them back to me, and on I went to the gate. Pre 9/11.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
52. PC in Cologne: 100 women sexually assaulted, mayor calls for cultural understanding
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:09 PM
Jan 2016

“We will explain our Carnival much better to people who come from other cultures, so there won’t be any confusion about what constitutes celebratory behavior in Cologne, which has nothing to do with a sexual frankness,” she said, according to comments reported by The New York Times.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/01/germany-refugees-sexual-assaults/422697/

Stories like this one is why Americans, white and nonwhite, overwhelmingly say political correctness has gone too far.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
63. Same mayor also said women must learn to keep their distance to avoid sexual assault
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:22 PM
Jan 2016
Cologne’s mayor has been widely criticised for suggesting that women “keep at an arm’s length” from strangers to avoid sexual harassment, after scores of women were sexually abused and mugged in the city during new year celebrations.

Asked by a journalist how women could protect themselves, Henriette Reker said: “There’s always the possibility of keeping a certain distance of more than an arm’s length – that is to say to make sure yourself you don’t look to be too close to people who are not known to you, and to whom you don’t have a trusting relationship”.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/cologne-attacks-mayor-women-keep-men-arms-length-germany

With reasonable adherents like these folks, it's a mystery why PC is so unpopular.
 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
66. If you can believe it, the mayor is a woman
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:30 PM
Jan 2016

PC is where logic and rationality often go to die. This one is too far gone.

earthside

(6,960 posts)
55. It is somewhat subjective, of course.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:12 PM
Jan 2016

What people hate are the contortions some people use to avoid plain language.

"Illegal immigrant" is one that gets me. This is an accurate and descriptive term for anyone who enters the United States in contravention of the law. "Undocumented worker" is so clearly political and non-descriptive.

Much 'political correctness' is rather obvious when it turns silly in its political manipulation.

For instance, the video that someone made a couple of months ago alleging that all kinds of sayings average people use all have racist origins -- turns out most of them actually don't. That is 'political correctness' turned into whining and inanity.

And I haven't met a person yet who believes that is a real thing called 'microagressions'. Rudeness and crudeness for sure -- 'micoragressions' is a PC term that elicits derision.

On there other hand, the conservative reactionaries running the Repuglican Party these days use 'political correctness' as a rationale to articulate bigotry and hate.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
62. FALSE: The word 'picnic' originated with crowds gathering to witness lynchings.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:21 PM
Jan 2016
CLAIM:

Although not taught in American learning institutions and literature, it is noted in most Black history professional circles and literature that the origin of the term "picnic" derives from the acts of lynching African-Americans. The word "picnic" is rooted from the whole theme of "Pick A N****r." This is where individuals would "pic" a Black person to lynch and make this into a family gathering. There would be music and a "picnic." ("Nic" being the white acronym for "n****r.&quot Scenes of this were depicted in the movie "Rosewood."

....

Specious etymologies seem to be all the rage of late, and this dubious claim about 'picnic' fits that trend. You'll be heartened to know 'picnic' has nothing to do with crowds gathering to witness the lynching of blacks (or anyone else, for that matter) in America.

'Picnic' began life as a 17th-century French word: it wasn't even close to being an American invention. A 1692 edition of Origines de la Langue Françoise de Ménage
mentions 'piquenique' as being of recent origin and marks the first appearance of the word in print. As for how the French came by this new term, it was likely invented by joining the common form of the verb 'piquer' (meaning "to pick" or "peck&quot with 'nique,' possibly either a Germanic term meaning "worthless thing" or merely a nonsense rhyming syllable coined to fit the first half of this new palate-pleaser.

....

Meanwhile, things are not peachy on the campus of SUNY/Albany. The university wanted to honour baseball legend Jackie Robinson by having a picnic. But the university's equity office said this must not occur because the word "picnic" referred originally to gatherings held to lynch Blacks. In fact, as one of their own English professors (rather less committed to historical revisionism than RMC's Dr. Robinson) pointed out, the word "picnic" actually comes from a 17th-century French word that denotes a party at which everyone brings food. But Zaheer Mustafa, the equity officer, nevertheless decreed that "picnic" not be used because "the point is — the word offends." So the university decided to call it an "outing." Then, homosexual students took objection to that, and SUNY decided to publicize the event without using any noun to describe it.

http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/picnic.asp

earthside

(6,960 posts)
70. This kind of PC makes those who invoke it look like idiots.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:34 PM
Jan 2016

I'm not being PC, am I?

It is exactly this kind of inanity that fuels Trump and his followers and actually gives them a sense of license to be bigoted and hateful.

Now, how does that add to the civility of American discourse? We on the liberal-progressive side are supposed to be smarter and understand the ramifications of what we propose. The kind of PC incident like the one above at SUNY/Albany is counterproductive and hurts the broader cause of peace, justice, and equality ... in my opinion.

In other words, Zaheer Mustafa, has become an enabler of bigots -- quite the opposite of was intended.

Democrats_win

(6,539 posts)
65. Trump has "no time" for pollitical correctness.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:25 PM
Jan 2016

But somehow he has time to explain all of the politically incorrect stuff he says. You know: If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, where did you find the time to do it right the second time?

Is this man really "one of us?" (Throwing his own words back at him.) Just like how he descended on us on an escalator from his bubble in the sky to say terrible things about people who do a lot of the work in this country.

Trump is not one of us, go back to your politically incorrect bubble so we don't have to hear you any more. He is an affluent weak brat who won't stand tall and take responsibility for what he says but will spend hours explaining his lies and missteps.

What a weak loser!

Response to kpete (Original post)

mwrguy

(3,245 posts)
78. “It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.”
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 01:57 PM
Jan 2016

Some words definitely do need to be done away with.

Response to kpete (Original post)

arthritisR_US

(7,291 posts)
103. The real question is addressing discrimination whether it's
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 03:05 PM
Jan 2016

ageism, sexism, racism or bigotry. PC serves to mask it, to cover it up but does nothing to address the core.

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