Its Christmas time. And once again, the DU Grinches are out and about.

[Stinky The Clown]

True enough, it is also time for non Christian holidays. Talking about Christmas takes NOTHING away from the other holidays.

So today DU seems full of some really sour shit.

To wit, and with much interpretative hyperbole, here are two examples:

Santa is a lie that is killing children
Gingerbread houses are intended to kill children

I am not a religious person. I am not a bigot nor one who would exclude one religion in favor of another. I am not one who would hurt children.

But I AM someone who has nothing but fond, warm memories about Christmas, Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, wreaths and gingerbread houses. So are my now adult children. Indeed, I honestly don't know a kid who was hurt by any of these childhood myths.

It is a good thing these screeds posted here on DU have as much effect on the holidays as a fart has in a windstorm.

To all who enjoy Christmas, I say, with warmth and affection, ans in as many ways as possible:











I was going to link to have my very favorite carol (O Holy Night) play but thought that a little over the top.

[Johonny]

1. Have a happy holidays

[saturnsring]

2. merry christmas to you

[roguevalley]

39. thank you for this. I taught school and carried on the traditions

for the little kids. some ass hat at my old school told her kids (little bitty ones) that Santa doesn't exist. Children went home hysterical. There is a special circle in hell for people like this. Truth? Fuck it. Why not tell your kid that they have only a few decades if they're lucky before they die, probably in a terrible way from cancer? I don't get some people. Merry Christmas to all.

[Scuba]

3. Bill O'Reilly will LOVE this post.

[Marty McGraw]

35. Bill'O Receives Special

Last edited Thu Dec 17, 2015, 05:43 PM - Edit history (2)

Delivered Packages Every Year...

[1StrongBlackMan]

53. Really? That's some crap and you know it.

O'Reilly's "war on Xmas" is just a thinly Christian persecution" thing, which has zero to do with this OP.

[ProfessorGAC]

76. Thanks For Saying It 1SBM

You're totally correct. This OP couldn't be further from an O'Liely-ism.

[1StrongBlackMan]

77. As I said ...

I will never understand why some feel entitled, if not, compelled to pissed on another's beliefs/joy ... especially when no one asks them to believe, accept, or even understand that belief/joy.

At least, I hope to never understand.

[ProfessorGAC]

79. Yep!

I'm as anti-religion as they come, but what do i care what days people celebrate.

I have nostalgia for the christmas times of my youth. I feel no shame in that.

The church stuff, i don't miss at all. But, if people want to go to midnight mass, that doesn't affect me. Why should it bother me?

And the criticisms based upon the "crass consumerism" of the season seem naive. If it wasn't for December 25th, we'd find another day to do it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

81. Amen ...

I care about someone's religious practices, or what they tell their kids about Santa Claus, about as much as someone entering into a SSM, or whether they smoke dope, or any of the othere things us liberals insist are none of our damned business.

[CTyankee]

4. I always link my holiday greeting to the beliefs of the person I am greeting (if I know that).

E.G. I never say happy holidays to someone I know celebrates Christmas, nor do I wish my jewish friends anything but happy hannukkah. If I know the relgiious beliefs of the friend I follow that. I think it is only courteous...

[Stinky The Clown]

5. I agree and do pretty much the same thing. I am always respectful of those who respect me

It is the cutting down of Christmas that frosts my ass.

[CTyankee]

28. Just give yourself over to all the holiday movies and get an xmas songs loop in your

car system and avoid the commercialization (that's what ffrosts my ass!). And I hope you have a BIG xmas tree to trim...

[Person 2713]

57. Why would you never say happy holidays to someone you know celebrated Christmas ?

Curious to the new rules being made about Christmas

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. Because that apparently offends them.

And they're the ones making the new rules.

[Person 2713]

60. But Happy Holidays as a phrase is not something new When did Irving Berlin become the anti Christmas

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7455120

[Flying Squirrel]

68. "Holidays" originally meant "Holy Days"

So why should it offend a Christian? Unless they just WANT to be offended.

[snooper2]

6. blah Xmas time is almost over, I'm waiting for Valentines day- Fucking Patriarchy!

LOL

[pinboy3niner]

9. I'm getting ready for the War on Easter

Oh, the Peepmanity!

[mgmaggiemg]

7. dear stinky in theory I agree

with a post that says who you are without knocking anyone else...with one exception....you are trying to be inclusive w/o being inclusive....because the internet is essentially "the public airwaves" with many many channels ...you have the option of going to the christmas channels to express your enthusiasm.....for christmas....i know what a concept; celebrating christmas on the christmas channel...not the POLITICAL channel...unless...unless you are intending christmas to be a political statement. be that as it may....I am tolerant...if you had all included a "and Peace and Good Will to all my Non-Christian friends" with out categorizing them (including every non christian in the universe).....then I think you might have a case....because your message as it stands does not include everyone....and therefore is the opposite of the christmas spirit you intend....which is to not leave anyone out.....that is what christmas is about....you don't say here are some christmas cookies for my christmas friend and screw you jews and muslims...you offer christmas cookies to your non christmas friends as well by acknowledging them...and wishing them well...it's just good manners...and in the christmas spirit....Cheers, Maggie

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. Have a wonderful holiday season ...

And, don't let those that wallow in their own misery pull you in.

[mgmaggiemg]

64. ok....stay strong.....

I will try to stay on the love train... have a peaceful solstice...I am practicing radical acceptance this year ;O

[1StrongBlackMan]

69. I will never understand ...

Why some feel, not only entitled; but, compelled to pissed on the beliefsame of others ... especially, when those beliefs have nothing to do with them, nor are they asked to believe, accept, or even understand the beliefs.

At leasr, I hope to never understand it.

[LanternWaste]

8. Not so much Grinch, as much as irrational individuals in love with sounding clever.

Not so much Grinch, as much as irrational individuals merely in love with sounding clever. Were it only Christmas, I'd agree with your premise, however in the examples I've seen, it's pretty much the same posters who will argue anything simply for the sake of arguing... and yes, even to the point of arguing the denial of a childhood to children.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

10. Greatest Page for your delightful post, my dear Stinky The Clown!

Thank you.



And a Merry Christmas to you and yours!

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Since you had to resort, as you admit, to "much interpretative hyperbole"

to get any kind of justification for your use of 'grinches' in your title, your OP comes across more as "look at me!!!!!!" than "Merry Christmas". The straw in the manger wasn't meant to be used to build strawmen.

[trotsky]

22. +1 n/t

[DinahMoeHum]

12. In the spirit of the original St. Nicholas of Myra. . .

Merry Christmas

[workinclasszero]

13. Merry Christmas!

And that's a great carol too

[meow2u3]

14. Merry Christmas to you too.

[840high]

15. Merry Xmas. I love Xmas.

[lunamagica]

16. + ONE MILLION!!!! No Grinch will ever tarnish the Christmas memories I have

From my childhood.

Santa, elves, reindeer, fun, joy fantasy, the music the magic...LOVED it all!

I also grew up with the Nativity scenes...moved me, and have several on display now.

Thank you so much for this post, and have a very Merry Christmas!

[Dorian Gray]

17. Happy Holidays

Merry Christmas.

My daughter is so excited for Santa to come. And in her letter to him, she asked him to look out for children whose families don't have as much as we do. Her own idea. And she's five. So then she and I went and bought toys for kids through NY Cares and Toys for Tots "to help Santa."

I love this time of year. I love NYC when everything is decorated. I love that it's magical for my five year old daughter and many of her friends. She has many friends who don't celebrate Christmas, so we've been learning about other faiths and backgrounds and what they do celebrate and why. It brings up fantastic discussions in our household.

[brer cat]

18. Merry Christmas to you, Stinky.

I love my childhood memories of the "myths" as do my daughter and granddaughters. The light that shines in a child's eyes as he/she sees the lights, the trees, the presents from Santa are more precious than jewels to me.

[bigwillq]

19. Happy Holidays! Merry Christmas! Ho!Ho!Ho!

[MattBaggins]

20. Happy Holidays

[killbotfactory]

21. The reason you had fun at Christmas is because of your family, not belief in Santa.

Enjoy the holiday however you want, but the idea that a kid can't enjoy Christmas unless you lie about Santa being real is absurd.

[JI7]

46. i think the point is that it's not a big deal if you do tell them some gifts were from santa

[ileus]

23. Some love to whine...

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. Bah, humbug.

Every store, every elevator, every TV ad, every GD song on the radio is a bloody x-mas carol. ENOUGH ALREADY!

[ileus]

25. Oh and Merry Christmas.

[grossproffit]

26. Thank you so much! I love Christmas.

[CrispyQ]

27. For you, Stinky.

[George II]

29. Thanks - Merry Christmas.

I hear all some of those people do is bite the heads off the gingerbread men.

[Javaman]

30. happy holidays. nt

[valerief]

31. You know what I never understood? Kids will believe in Santa Claus etal and also believe in god.

Then kids reach an age and stop believing in Santa Claus etal. However, they don't all stop believing in god.

What stops them from taking that last step?

[skepticscott]

33. Their parents

They are allowed to let go of Santa once they see how silly and phony it is. When they come to the same conclusion about gawd and jeebus, though, they are threatened with alienation and eternal damnation if they abandon beliefs that are just as silly.

[valerief]

37. Jeebus is Santa Claus for the Naughty List. nt

[yeoman6987]

51. I love Christmas and think those who do should be respected.

How about bending over backwards for the Christmas believers and even religious who believe in God. That is tolerance. Not only being tolerant on those that are acceptable.

[whatthehey]

62. Where else do you think a marginalized minority should "bend over backwards"

to accommodate an exclusive parochial smugly privileged majority? In what other instance could you boldly make that claim here and not be tombstoned?

[yeoman6987]

63. If you notice, many slam Christmas celebrators and Christians

Jeebus is not showing tolerance. I'd never say anything nasty to an atheist, Muslim, Jewish believer, ect. However many seem to Christians here. A progressive site no less. You don't have to agree. I'm just pointing out what I have noticed. No biggie.

[whatthehey]

65. If you notice the VAST all-powerful majority in the US are Christians

whining about a couple of places on the internet where the rest of us can vent about being a hated marginalized tiny minority and not risk death, assault, dismissal or ostracism is a striking example of religious privilege.

[yeoman6987]

66. Ok. Glad we both were able to explain ourselves. That is what I love about debate.

[whatthehey]

67. And it's grreat that you can be so smugly blase about it

you're not the one who gets spat on, beaten, and fired for your opinion, all of which have happened to me and far worse to others. The LAST remaining acceptable utter bigotry and hate in the US is against non-Christians and you lot can't even let us complain about it anonymously on a leftist site. If this was ANY other minority the entirety of DU would howl for bans with the way nonbelievers are treated here.

[yeoman6987]

72. And you get to cut into a convo. Congrats. Great about America is everyone can believe what they e

Problems. Glad you agree with me about the Christian bashing. Only education will stop it. Have a great night and weekend! Merry Christmas! Enjoy.

[skepticscott]

75. Sorry, but "tolerance" does not mean

Last edited Fri Dec 18, 2015, 04:11 PM - Edit history (1)

"Bending over backwards". It does not mean refraining from criticizing things that are silly, foolish or annoying (among other things). It means allowing things to go on even if you regard them as such., when people have the right to do them.

[yeoman6987]

78. Oh please. That is incorrect. It you were right then those hating Islam would be ok

But we tolerate everyone regardless of beliefs. Sorry but that includes Christians.

[skepticscott]

83. What utter bullshit

I said nothing about "hating Islam." But yes, we do "tolerate" people who hate Islam, because they have that right, just as people here have the right to hate Republicans. Tolerating them does not mean we do not criticize or speak out against them, any more than it means not speaking out or criticizing those who murder others in the name of their misbegotten religion.

You need to do a lot more thinking and understanding of what "tolerance" really means.

[The2ndWheel]

42. There's no objective truth

But we really want there to be.

[uppityperson]

47. If you view "santa claus" as the anthropomorphic personification of the spirit of christmas,

the spirit of giving to others, doing for others, in an altruistic manner, it can help.

I still believe in the spirit of altruistically giving to and doing for others, but have moved past needing an anthropomorphic personification. I also still believe in that same spirit along with being as good a person as I can, not hurting people or anything without needing an anthropomorphic personification.

Some people find the personification helpful. Some, however, focus only on that anthropomorphic personification and miss the reason, the spirit behind it.

[Nye Bevan]

56. Because you can easily prove that there's no Santa Claus by staying up all night

and seeing if he comes? But there's no straightforward way to prove that God does not exist? Also that smart people like Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe that God exists but do not believe that Santa exists?

[skepticscott]

32. So why don't you just tell us

What these so-called "grinches" are really saying about Xmas (you know, like, exact quotes and links), instead of just inventing things to be unhappy about because you can't generate your faux outrage from the truth?

Either that, or link to where anyone actually said:

Santa is a lie that is killing children
Gingerbread houses are intended to kill children

[Hekate]

44. It's here in GD with almost 300 replies. Don't know how you missed it...

chalmers
Stop lying to your children about Santa Claus
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027452511

and this

hedgehog
Gingerbread houses - why?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027453225

[MisterP]

34. actually their reasoning that learning Santa isn't real damages kids is the same as Jack Chick's

https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1033/1033_01.asp

it used to be that if some baying Philistine was tearing up Catholic Hosts, condemning fairy tales and Santa Claus as deviating for children, insisting that only the most fundamentalist literalist interpretations of Scripture are valid and that everyone else is just cherrypicking, citing Kersey Graves and Alexander Hislop, warning us to not trust academics (especially philosophers, historians, and theologians) because they contradict some 1910s eccentric, backing torture and Israel no matter what, bellowing "kill 'em all and let THEIR god sort 'em out!" and ranting about the Popish-Muslim threat to Civilization they were Ian Paisley

[deutsey]

36. Merry Christmas! n/t

[MissDeeds]

38. Great post, Stinky

Although I'm not religious, and am in fact a reluctant agnostic, "O Holy Night" always brings me to tears.

The holiday season for me, as a child, was all about peace, love, hope and joy. Who could argue with that?

K&R

[liberalhistorian]

40. I have to agree here.

I was never traumatized by believing in Santa Claus or making/looking at gingerbread houses, and neither was anyone else I know or have ever known. I agree the whole "war on Christmas" and "keep Christ in Christmas" and hullabaloo over saying "Merry Christmas" and the like is stupid and annoying as hell (especially since the people who get worked up over it often care more about that crap than they do actually acting like Christ in serving and helping others). But we can also get too worked up and go too far, and we've shown that here over the past few days with those ridiculous threads.

[lancer78]

41. F Christmas!

F Christmas's Mother!

F Christmas's Daddy

[Hekate]

43. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, Stinky

[hunter]

45. My wife loves Christmas, my kids love Christmas...

... I've tried over the years, but I'm tired.

My childhood Christmases were often times of family religious warfare.

Even when everyone was civil, the knives shooting out of peoples' eyes and flying about the room comic book style could leave people severely wounded.

I'm a burnt out autistic spectrum dude who is tired of acting. I don't like the noise, I don't like the shopping.

Oh, and as a kid I was also frequently very ill around Christmas. There wasn't any cold or flu that my reactive lungs couldn't turn into a serious pneumonia, and god, could there be anything worse than people trying to cheer up the poor little sick kid shot up with drugs and wearing an oxygen mask?

My dad's sister, before modern antibiotics, died as a child, in similar circumstances. I guess she had lungs like mine.

Maybe had I emigrated to Australia as a footloose young man, would my feelings about Christmas have evolved into something pleasant?

The last time I went out with my wife and kids to buy a Christmas Tree, this was several years ago, I was sicker than usual, full of drugs, it was maybe 33^oF and drizzling. My parents in their retirement have abandoned all pretenses of tradition, no older relatives to appease. They live in a tropical rain forest, in a house I've never visited. They drink and bathe in water that falls on their roof. They buy food from local farmers. They'd sent me an email photo of their "Christmas Tree," a big dead branch of driftwood they'd found, put up in their living room, and they were hanging Christmas Cards on it as they received them.

So very wonderful their lives are now compared to the Christmas "cheer" of my childhood...

I tell stories, but honestly some of my favorite childhood Christmases were truly the most horrible, like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7455593

Okay, I've changed a few details for the sake of the children...

Too many were simply sordid, like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7452563

[Spitfire of ATJ]

48. Just got our card from Jimmy Carter.

[Blue_In_AK]

49. Merry Christmas, Stinky!

And I have to say that none of my grown kids seem to have been damaged by the Santa myth either.

[Liberal_in_LA]

50. Lol

[RandySF]

54. +1000

[RandySF]

52. Merry Christmas and Maligayang Pasko from us.

[DashOneBravo]

58. Merry Christmas Stinky

[el_bryanto]

61. It's just the way of it - best not to let it get you down.

And I guess keep in mind that the HOlidays aren't a happy time for some people.

Bryant

[MisterP]

70. there's gonna be a lot of pants loaded over this one

When students perform the play “A Charlie Brown Christmas” at W.R. Castle Elementary School in Johnson County on Thursday, the scene in which the character Linus quotes from the Bible is set to be deleted.

Johnson County Schools Superintendent Thomas Salyer told the Herald-Leader Tuesday that Christmas programs across the district were being reviewed for possible modifications of religious references. That news had led people to protest outside school district offices for a second day Tuesday.
...
“As superintendent of Johnson County Schools, I recognize the significance of Christmas and the traditions and beliefs associated with this holiday. Over the past few days, there have been several rumors indicating that there would be no Christmas plays this year at our elementary schools. I want to clarify that all programs will go on as scheduled. In accordance with federal laws, our programs will follow appropriate regulations. The U.S. Supreme Court and the 6th Circuit are very clear that public school staff may not endorse any religion when acting in their official capacities and during school activities. However, our district is fully committed to promote the spirit of giving and concern for our fellow citizens that help define the Christmas holiday. With core values such as service, integrity, leadership, and commitment, our staff and students will continue to proudly represent our district as recently demonstrated by our many student successes.”
...
In the Charlie Brown play, the character Linus recites passages from the Bible: “Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes lying in the manger. And suddenly, there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying, ‘glory to God in the highest, and on Earth peace, good will toward men.’ ”

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/education/article49895325.html

[lovemydog]

71. Merry Christmas Stinky & all who celebrate it.

And Happy Festivus to the rest of us.

[TransitJohn]

73. Fuck Christmas

A crass orgy of gluttonous consumerism. It disgusts me.

[yuiyoshida]

74. Meri Kurisumasu!

To Yoi otoshi wo!

[Matrosov]

80. As much as I dislike religion..

I don't see the harm in having little kids believe in Santa Claus. I grew up an atheist - these days I'm a vocal critic of religion, especially Abrahamic ones - but some of my favorite memories from my childhood are when my grandmother dressed up as Santa and handed out presents Christmas morning. Yes, for a few years I really didn't realize it was my grandmother and I really thought it was Santa..

Then again, as much as I dislike religion, I also don't see the harm in wishing someone Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, or Eid Mubarak. Some people just need to lighten up.

[Tanuki]

82. Here are Alison Krauss and Yo-Yo Ma, performing "Wexford Carol"

a very, very old Christmas song, originally Gaelic, not heard so often but quite lovely:

[BlueJazz]

84. Have a wonderful Christmas. I'm glad your heart is full of joy.

[Corey_Baker08]

85. Merry Christmas!

[Nac Mac Feegle]

86. Let's ALL just take a step back

There are plenty records of festivals around the Winter Solstice in just about every culture.

It's a celebration of the transition from the days getting shorter to the days getting longer.

One particular religion trying to monopolize the event seems quite rudely self-centered. How does one deity "own" a universally regularly recurring astronomical event?

The celebration is an expression of hope; an acknowledgment that the 'worst' is over, and better things are coming.

Let's look for the hope, and celebrate.


Have a fabulous ChrismaHanaKwanzakah

[greytdemocrat]

87. A very Merry Christmas to all here on DU.