White guys are killing us: Toxic, cowardly masculinity, our unhealable national illness

[mwrguy]

Good article from Salon:

When the New York Times editorial board issued its powerful condemnation of America’s gun culture, they went beyond mere outrage in response to the recent murder sprees in San Bernardino, California, and Colorado Springs, Colorado. The Times went so far as to suggest that “assault rifle”-style weapons should be banned from civilian ownership. As is our national ritual, President Obama also condemned gun violence, and just as he has been forced to do too many times during his tenure, pleaded that Americans must find a way to stop killing each other. The American people do in fact support stronger gun control laws; the NRA, functioning as the lobbying arm for the gun industry, opposes even the most basic common sense gun laws. The NRA wins while the American people die.

This is political intractability in a democracy broken by the power of a very well-funded interest group to subvert the public’s will. But, there is another little-discussed factor that helps to explain America’s obsessive and near pathological gun culture, unwillingness to treat gun violence as a public health crisis, Right-wing domestic terrorism, and propensity for mass shootings. It transcends all of those issues. But this factor is usually treated as verboten, something to not be unspoken of, because of the rage, threats of violence, and animus it inspires.

The common denominator is white masculinity and the particular ways that it is connected to American gun culture and the color line.

...

White men are approximately 30 percent of the population but account for 60 percent of the mass shootings. Domestic terrorism by white Right-wing Christians, again, mostly men, has been identified by the F.B.I. as the United States’ greatest internal threat.

Research by Kerry O’Brien, Walter Forrest, Dermot Lynott, and Michael Daly as featured in the journal PLS One, has shown that white symbolic racism is directly related to gun ownership, hostility to gun control laws, and support for concealed carry.

Excerpted, read it all here:

http://www.salon.com/2015/12/16/white_guys_are_killing_us_toxic_cowardly_masculinity_our_unhealable_national_illness/

[Eleanors38]

1. For it's actual political effect, Salon should be paid by the NRA. nt

[LanternWaste]

2. That's a very creative and colorful allegation.

That's a very creative and colorful allegation. It's not really anything else though...

[Eleanors38]

29. I see your point, but gven the usual suspects, it ain't too creative.

[closeupready]

8. It's become a sensationalist blog, sadly.

I agree.

[LittleBlue]

18. Agreed. Salon is a right-wing caricature of progressives

I won't even click on that filth. Roger Ailes is probably touching himself reading it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. Agree. n/t

[virgogal]

3. Another anti-white screed spouting nonsense.

There are good and bad members of all races.

[Act_of_Reparation]

4. Yeah, that's exacrtly what it was...

[virgogal]

14. I was especially amused by the pic

showing Dirty Harry.

Guess the author never saw pictures of Shaft with a gun.

A ridiculous ,one sided article by an author who apparently has a very big axe to grind so decided to blame white men.

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. You really ought to go back and re-read the article.

Because it doesn't say what you think it says.

[B2G]

5. Are gang-related shootings included in 'mass shooting' statistics?

If not, why not?

If so, are they included in that 60% statistic?

[B2G]

9. Answered my own question.

No, they are not.

See below.

[Lizzie Poppet]

12. They are when it's convenient to do so.

As in making the assertion that there's a "mass shooting every day." But I'll bet that when there's a racist point to make (as in the article), I suspect those incidents are suddenly "not applicable."

[B2G]

13. They were completely left out. Color me shocked. nt

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

53. Yes, they are included in "a mass shooting every day"

A mass shooting does not have to be terror related - the local gangbanger who shoots four people is also a mass shooter.

And, yeah, the white guy who kills his wife, his kids, and then himself is a mass shooter, as well.

[840high]

6. Salon - hahaha!!!!

[closeupready]

10. +1.

[B2G]

7. So here's the way it's done on DU

Scream about 'one mass shooting' a day, tout those numbers as a part of your gun control argument, then ignore the vast majority of them in your race/religion based rants on mass shootings, so you prove some 'point' about how evil once race or religion is.

All the while screaming 'Black Lives Matter!!' while ignoring these deaths.

From the link in the OP, where these statistics came from.

"Crimes primarily related to gang activity, armed robbery, or domestic violence in homes are not included."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2

[Eleanors38]

30. A quote from a black minister when a black and a white outlaw were both lynched...

side-by-side in Gainesville, Florida in 1891:

"Yay, even when a black man and a white man are lynched together, the white man is hung higher than the black man."

Marx was wrong about the "equality of the graveyard."

[GummyBearz]

57. An obvious example of racism

Everyone knows if you die hanging higher up than someone else you get to be reincarnated

[Eleanors38]

63. The explanation from witnesses/participants was after stringing up

the white outlaw, the remaining rope was too short; hence, the lower limb for the black outlaw. The lynching was supposedly the only integrated lynching in the U.S. in terms of the hanged and in terms of the participants (2-300). The integrated gang lost its allure with most everyone by that time.

[Nevernose]

56. That article failed to explain to my satisfaction

Just WHY we shouldn't include gang violence, domestic, or drug related violence. To me, motivation of the mass shooter is of much less importance than actually getting shot, and even the specific cases the author mentioned, some of the victims were innocent bystanders.

Obviously, my satisfaction is not the arbiter of what gets published at MJ, but it sure would be nice if the CDC, NIH, and other government agencies could study the issue properly and thoroughly, wouldn't it?

[Lizzie Poppet]

11. "White men are approximately 30% of the population but account for 60% of the mass shootings."

Ill-advised point to make, as it invites the inevitable response that black men account for c. 50% of all homicides (as perpetrators and victims alike) while comprising less than 10% of the population. Not just statistically minuscule mass killings...all homicides. Does the author (and others who make that point) really want to make it about race?

Horrible, horrible line of argument/reasoning...

[B2G]

15. You must have missed all of the threads deploring gang-related

mass shootings. Get with it.

[Lizzie Poppet]

17. What you did there...

[randys1]

26. So you care about gang shootings? You know the names of those shot?

You have done enough historical research and into institutional racism and found why such things exist?


Or are you just using it?

[B2G]

27. Oh NOW you want to talk about root cause

As opposed to knee jerk reactions?

You are hardly one to lecture me about 'using' events to attain goals.

[randys1]

39. Instead of making an accusation you cant back up, just admit you dont give a shit

about them.

[B2G]

47. You completely ignore the situation

And then state that I don't give a shit.

Perfect.

[Eleanors38]

32. Unfortunately, MSM (whose gun-ban proclivities are well-known) don't do

"Specials" and "In Depth" stories on kids killed in turf wars. For some reason it doesn't fit their agenda.

[cwydro]

45. I guess I've missed those too.

Oh, wait.

[mythology]

22. Not if the two sorts of crimes have different underlying motives

Most murders are committed by somebody known to the victim. Some mass muders are, but I would imagine those are the family killers. But mass violence like the Colorado theater shooting or other similar shootings have a different approach to solving.

[Lizzie Poppet]

28. I most certainly agree on that point.

Mass shootings (by the more-specific definition of the term) require a different approach for the precise reason you state: vastly different motivating factors. This is exactly why I dislike the expanding of the definition of "mass shootings." Not because it inflates the problem (although I don't care for that, either), but because it confuses the analysis of how to solve the problem.

[Major Nikon]

78. Divide that also into gender and you get an even more skewed statistic

The whole idea is dumb as day old dogshit.

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. So, help me keep this straight; Muslims are not responsible for muslim terrorists...

... but white guys are.

Collective guilt? It's okay if you hate the target enough.

[Angel Martin]

64. help me get this straight...

close...

I believe the received view is that people who call themselves muslims, and do mass killings, are not actually muslims.

And white men who do mass killings, but call themselves atheists, are actually christians.

[Bradical79]

65. What self declared atheists are being called Christians?

not sure what you're talking about.

[EX500rider]

72. I'd guess that refers to Timothy McVeigh.

[Bradical79]

81. McVeigh wasn't an atheist though -nt

[Angel Martin]

75. it was in these comments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1119176

[Bradical79]

80. I see. I'm not sure how that is relevant though

I mean one person, Fred Sanders, made an absurd comment which was quickly proven false. Don't know how that is relevant to what a completely different person is saying. Maybe there is a prevailing view that this anti-theist is Christian for some reason, but I don't see how a single post from Fred Sanders is any indication of that.

[Paladin]

23. Looks like a Discussionist thread got misplaced, here at DU.

Judging from the responses......

[Bonx]

24. Well, the OP is pure DU

[closeupready]

25. Who parents white men? The extent to which the parents of dysfunctional white men

seem to 99% of the time end up as the proverbial elephants in the room to which nobody wants to ascribe guilt ...

How can that code of silence be accounted for?

[Eleanors38]

33. "Code of Silence?" About "dysfunctional" whites? In DU?

But on the other hand...



However, I would hasten to reiterate...

[closeupready]

35. Seems like parents are never to blame when white men behave badly.

At least on DU. Or it's always, ALWAYS the father, and NEVER the mother.

[Eleanors38]

37. Oh, but the Sandy Hook killer's Mom was thoroughly keel-hauled.

As was the Charleston church murderer's folks.

The point made by Waldorf above (since censored) is salient. Many here on DU feel free to dump their personal garbage when some white guy (usually) pulls some atrocity, and to little constructive purpose, except to join in with the cadence of Salon-type articles. There is a W-I-D-E comfort zone which wouldn't (and shouldn't) be tolerated if the parents were minority. Outside of DU, RW and MS media feel quite free to go after Muslims, and occasionally Mexicans, because tRumpism is sanctified. Here on DU, however, it's "Fire at Billy-Wayne Will!" In my opinion.

[closeupready]

41. Perhaps, but certainly threads on DU are ANYTHING but constructive when

discussing current events relating to gender issues. People bring their personal garbage in to almost every discussion, seeing the world through distorted lenses. Peace.

[Eleanors38]

42. Agreed. Peace to you as well.

[treestar]

31. I think it is masculinity generally

somehow we have to get rid of the idea that a real man is always up for a fight, always ready to defend himself, and is a coward if he backs away from an offered conflict. Men are more afraid of being called cowards than they are of death.

[Eleanors38]

34. Possibly, but in the Gungeon it is Penis©.

[TeddyR]

40. Yes

[Chitown Kev]

36. Agreed

I don't think this is a white male thing with guns so much as it's simply a male thing.

[cwydro]

38. I agree.

Men of all races kill each other (and women) on a pretty regular basis.

Children are also at risk from men of all races.

[Fumesucker]

44. We are all descendants of an unbroken string of winners in the brutal struggle that is life

Any organism that makes it to maturity and manages to pass on its genes to the next generation is a winner in Darwinian terms.

[Matrosov]

43. If the majority of gun owners were people of color..

..increased gun control legislation would've been passed a long time ago.

[Number23]

50. That is the entire point of this article. And what so many of of this thread are burning 1000

calories trying extremely hard not to understand.

[gwheezie]

51. The error in the article is

Not using the not all white people™ disclaimer when discussing white folks.

[Number23]

52. Exactly. Spot on correct. And it's one of the 7 billion reasons that racism is still as potent and

detrimental as it is.

The need to placate white people's feelings, even regarding an article about how white, male "masculinity" has been one of the most destructive forces this country has ever had, is simply astonishing.

[Amishman]

59. how is that different from the disclaimer we add for other groups?

'not all hispanics'
'not all blacks'
'not all muslims'
'not all immigrants'

we make a point to use those disclaimers, especially when making a rebuttal to a blanket negative statement about a group. Why is it preferable to use that type of disclaimer in the context of one group but unacceptable to use it when discussing another?

[OneGrassRoot]

76. I was feeling nauseated...

Reading through this thread from the top down, until I got to your post, then it was like a breath of fresh air.

to you, and

[Number23]

77. I was nauseated as well. But I'm used to it

Happy Holidays to you, OneGrassRoot.

[romanic]

46. The writers at Salon

sound just as hysterical as the writers at Breitbart. Two sides of the same rusty penny.

[Skittles]

48. I think gun humpers are the biggest cowards on the planet

but gun humping includes gangs, terrorists, etc....hardly exclusively white

[Yorktown]

49. White guys are killing us? Remarkable reverse racism.

If the OP stated 'Black guys are killing us' based on crime rates, it would be hidden.

Understandably so.

But it is OK to post 'White guys are killing us' based on terror attacks?

Looks like there's a double standard at work here..

[lumberjack_jeff]

54. There's no such thing as reverse racism. It's all one thing. n/t

[Yorktown]

58. agreed.

[Kang Colby]

55. What about the statistics?

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

[pediatricmedic]

60. This really does sound like a racist screed against whites

It also seems to ignore actual facts and statistics:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

and

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_3_murder_offenders_by_age_sex_and_race_2013.xls



Or the actual extremists:

http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html

[mwrguy]

61. There is no racism against whites

[Major Nikon]

85. Only if you subscribe to the idea of double standards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard

See also...

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/what%27s_good_for_the_goose_is_good_for_the_gander

[Jesus Malverde]

62. lulz of the day

No time for the article the headline is classic. Such lulz.

[leftyladyfrommo]

66. How about if we say that "men" are killing us.

Really, it's pretty unusual for women to be shooters. We normally just nag people to death.

But, seriously, most of the shooting deaths and injuries here in KCMO are gang related. Not counting suicides. And it's all races. and those gang members shoot each other over the strangest stuff. And they are very macho.

We have had over 100 homicides this year and I would bet you about 90 percent are gang related. They find bodies almost every day here. Laying in alleys or streets or backyards. It's really terrible and then it is like nobody cares because they are just gang members. One family lost 2 sons in a week.

And the really sad thing are the deaths of the little kids and babies that just happen to get in the way.

[TipTok]

67. Well... That was racist...

[mwrguy]

69. Nice try

There is no such thing as racism against the group that has all the power.

[hack89]

71. Ok - it was bigoted. Better? nt

[TipTok]

74. It's odd how folks will accept their bigotry with a level of honesty...

... but call them a racist and all bets are off.

Smaller parts of the whole etc... etc...

[TipTok]

73. According to folks who are looking to excuse their own racism...

Institutional racism is indeed a thing but not the whole thing...as I suspect you know but don't want to admit because it makes you uncomfortable...

[Major Nikon]

79. I keep hearing this repeated

Seems a bit subliterate to me. YMMV.

[Lizzie Poppet]

82. It's an academic definition...

...that some folk are desperate to force into the colloquial lexicon. Plus, it allows them to deflect the conversation into a tiresome semantic rathole.

Fuck that.

[Major Nikon]

83. Without concensous that doesn't make it any less gibberish

Collegiate volumes of the most popular American English dictionaries contain no such mention and most certainly contain the most widely used consensus definitions of that term.

Prejudice based on race is racism. That definition doesn't change because someone invents their own meaning.

[ileus]

68. If only there was a way to get rid of those mean white guys...

Then we could have peace on earth.

[jamzrockz]

70. Why would someone

even post such a racist and sexist article on DU. Too bad you can no longer give - reps on DU posts.

[Major Nikon]

84. Evidently double standards make sense to some

[jack_krass]

86. Racist, sexist trash

Unrec