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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPentagon Officers: We Quit if Trump Wins
12.16.15 8:00 PM ET
Pentagon Officers: We Quit if Trump Wins
The plans of the next president are personal to the officers of the Pentagon, who are threatening to quit if The Donald becomes commander-in-chief.
Republican presidential candidate and business mogul Donald Trump has repeatedly vowed to build up the U.S. military if elected president.
But it is not clear he will have the experienced commanders within the ranks to do it.
In the halls of the Pentagon, there is a different plan afoot for the Trump presidency. Here, officers are privately contemplating what they would do should Trump become their commander-in-chief. And more often than not, they proclaim they will leave.
By 2016 I will have my 20 years in and can get out of here, one military official said, referring to the amount of time a service member needs to collect retirement pay.
Spend enough time with a service member, and the topic of Trump comes up, always unsolicited. It is far less political than it sounds. Trumps attack plans for the so-called Islamic State widely known as ISIShis call to ban Muslims from the United States, his suggestions that cutting off the flow of information through the Internet can protect the homelandmany said, are an affront to the values they vowed to die to defend.
Each one of them took an oath to defend the Constitution, which protects the freedom of speech and gives Congress, not just one person, the power send the nation to war. They also swear to obey the orders of the president of the United States.
In other words: The plans of the next president are personal to them.
more...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/16/pentagon-troops-it-s-us-or-trump.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page
morningfog
(18,115 posts)bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)ToxMarz
(2,167 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)anyway, it was about the coup that Burt Lancaster played a general got foiled by a good officer played by Kirk Douglas (IIRC). It was B &W. Great idea and plot...
ornotna
(10,801 posts)Excellent movie, was on TCM not too long ago. Your memory has not failed you.
malthaussen
(17,195 posts)That one and Night of Camp David are especially interesting, given the time they were written. My favorite part of the latter has to be when the senator and NSA head worry that the President is crazy because he jokes at the gridiron dinner that all phones in the U.S. should be tapped. Ah, the innocent 60's.
-- Mal
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)some still are but I haven't been scouting them out recently...
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)This should be publicized far and wide.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)He's got this.
MynameisBlarney
(2,979 posts)Plus, his massive combover can be used in a whip-like fashion, should ISIS prove to be unruly in teh donald's presence.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)decide to follow his orders, we'd go to war. Just without experienced commanders at the helm.
Keep in mind that Richard Nixon only had to accept the resignations of two men, Attorney General Elliot Richardson, and Deputy Attorney General William Ruckelshaus to get down the line to Solicitor General Robert Bork to find a man to fire Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox in the Saturday Night Massacre on October 20, 1973. For those of you too young to remember, or old enough but have forgotten just how things played out, here's a link to the Wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre
My point is it might well be possible for a President Trump to go off bombing any place he wants, killing all the supposed members and families of ISIS, rounding up Muslims by executive order, if we actually get a President Trump. Just look at his enthusiastic crowds, who would clearly become our version of the SS and the Brown Shirts, who would happily imprison or kill any and all suspected Muslims.
We can just hope that the Republicans really turn away from him and nominate someone else. Personally, I don't think Trump will actually get the nomination, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking.
book_worm
(15,951 posts)underpants
(182,803 posts)They're all pretty.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)He doesn't need the military.
A similar group was called the SA.
ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)Night of the Long Knives. The military wouldn't sign on to Hitler unless he did something about the brownshirts.
So, it's really not a similar group, because the SA was never involved in one of Germany's invasions. That was the Wermacht and the Waffen SS.
dumbcat
(2,120 posts)The Officer's oath does not contain the part highlighted. That is in the Enlisted oath. The Officer's oath does not require them to obey the orders of the President of the United States or the officers appointed above them. They are to use their own discretion as to the lawfulness of orders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)dumbcat
(2,120 posts)Actually, a commissioned officer's oath of office is binding and even if retired or having left active duty they can be recalled to active duty until age 65 in an emergency. (Unless they resign their commission, as I did.)
randr
(12,412 posts)Remember there are plenty of people who would gladly waterboard others; we have already witnessed this.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)randr
(12,412 posts)Our lives on earth are in a very precarious position.
Madness is not an abnormality within the human experience; it is the norm.
staggerleem
(469 posts)What percentage of "Pentagon officers" are we talking about here? What ranks? Will Trump care if a couple dozen brigadier generals & bird colonels jump ship? Doubt it.
IF one could say something like "40% (or more) of Pentagon officers ranked General or above would quit if Trump were elected" THEN we have a story worth telling. As it stands, I'm underwhelmed.
1939
(1,683 posts)The massive number of people who will "leave the US if 'X' is elected"
Overseas
(12,121 posts)Javaman
(62,530 posts)Javaman
(62,530 posts)TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)So, if Trump wins, you would rather be replaced with lunatics?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... would it cause more harm?
malthaussen
(17,195 posts)In the scenario where there are mass protesters and demonstrations, and the fascist government decides to use the Army to restore order, I wonder if it is such a certain thing that the troops will follow orders and open up on civilians. This is one reason, I think, that the police are being militarized. Perhaps there is the thought that they can be counted on to mow down their fellow citizens more than the Army can.
-- Mal
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)Yeah, it was the national guard, but there are always those who will "follow orders."
malthaussen
(17,195 posts)From what I've read of the incident, it appears that the Guard troops were just pissed off and opened up on their own initiative. (Once one cuts through the bullshit, that is)
But even stipulating that there are sufficient enlisted to follow an order to fire on civilians, there is the question whether there are sufficient officers who would give the order. This tantrum from the Pentagon suggests not. Because, contrary to what Mrs Rice argued, the fact that the President ordered it does not make it a legal order.
And there is a difference between waterboarding "terrorist suspects" and shooting your own fellow citizens.
-- Mal
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)follow illegal orders and exactly what constitutes a legal vs an illegal order.
There are always exceptions but as you surmised there would not be many that would obey an illegal order to hurt or kill American civilians.
malthaussen
(17,195 posts)... them I fear.
-- Mal
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I am not sure police officers do. They seem to walk on just about anything.
DFW
(54,379 posts)jalan48
(13,865 posts)The generals quit and then Trump appoints the ones who support him. Interesting idea.
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)Trump is a crazy person
Kermitt Gribble
(1,855 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)This sounds like a totally made-up story, in fact. tRump would be a disaster, but most of the military is Republican, and would be inclined to support him.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)RobinA
(9,893 posts)Pentagon officers suddenly sounding like ACLU members? Is torture a value they vowed to die to defend? Is lying us into a war with threats of nonexistent weapons of mass destruction a value they vowed to die to defend? What a crock.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)ilTupe
(12 posts)They are all faking it until they get there. Then they are befuddled.