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DFW

(54,415 posts)
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 09:54 AM Dec 2015

A perfect first "mission" for a ship named after my friend's father

The ship is still undergoing testing in its first deep water trials. We were there when Ann Zumwalt christened it. We're all pretty sure Bud (Elmo Zumwalt, Ann's dad, hated by Nixon for giving equal status to women and blacks as Secretary of the Navy) would have been thrilled to hear that this was the first "action" it saw: not combat, but rescuing an American fisherman who was having a heart attack. Kudos to Rachel Maddow for considering it worthy of including in her show.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/fisherman-rescued-by-15000-ton-navy-destroyer-585987139879?cid=sm_fb_maddow

*PS--that part about the captain being named James Kirk is for real.

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A perfect first "mission" for a ship named after my friend's father (Original Post) DFW Dec 2015 OP
That's such a bizarre looking ship Gormy Cuss Dec 2015 #1
Bath and surroundings got a huge employment shot in the arm DFW Dec 2015 #4
I watched it take shape in Bath, every time I drove through town. mainer Dec 2015 #2
I was only there at its completion DFW Dec 2015 #3
Function is all that matters. mainer Dec 2015 #5
True, but so am I DFW Dec 2015 #8
Wow. Cool ship. cwydro Dec 2015 #6
THAT was a no-no, unfortunately DFW Dec 2015 #7
Yeah, I would figure that. cwydro Dec 2015 #24
Admiral Zumwalt would have been shitcanned from today's military jmowreader Dec 2015 #9
Nixon hated Zumwalt's guts. The rank and file adored him. DFW Dec 2015 #14
I shook Adm Zumwalt's hand once. lpbk2713 Dec 2015 #10
That puts you ahead of me. DFW Dec 2015 #17
Military stuff makes me nuts. hunter Dec 2015 #11
At the christening, Senator King had the best thing to say about it DFW Dec 2015 #16
I'm certain some of my grandfather's talents were used in war... hunter Dec 2015 #20
My grandfather and father-in-law experienced all that up close as well DFW Dec 2015 #22
Great stuff. Happy Holidays, DFW. Hekate Dec 2015 #12
"Stealth destroyer"? Aren't they called submarines? nt lumberjack_jeff Dec 2015 #13
Not in this case, anyway DFW Dec 2015 #15
The fact that it has ballast tanks to reduce it's above-water radar profile... lumberjack_jeff Dec 2015 #21
It was never meant as a submarine DFW Dec 2015 #23
The Captain of the Danny Boy Octafish Dec 2015 #18
And rescued by a ship led by Captain James Kirk, no less n/t DFW Dec 2015 #19

DFW

(54,415 posts)
4. Bath and surroundings got a huge employment shot in the arm
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 12:10 PM
Dec 2015

I hope for the locals that there is some follow up.

I wouldn't mind another shot at the Sunday brunch at the Harraseeket Inn in Freeport. Nice area!!

mainer

(12,022 posts)
2. I watched it take shape in Bath, every time I drove through town.
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 11:58 AM
Dec 2015

And yes, it's a weird and (frankly) unattractive looking ship. It almost looks like a mould or mockup for the "real" ship to come.

DFW

(54,415 posts)
3. I was only there at its completion
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 12:06 PM
Dec 2015

There was a purpose to its design, and it wasn't for looks. After all, it was not meant as competition for the Queen Mary.

The area around Bath got a HUGE boost in employment for the project. There were a lot of smiles in Bath.

mainer

(12,022 posts)
5. Function is all that matters.
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 01:03 PM
Dec 2015

And good that it provided so many jobs.

But it is a weird looking thing.

DFW

(54,415 posts)
7. THAT was a no-no, unfortunately
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 02:41 PM
Dec 2015

Probably a lot of sensitive stuff in there. They said it was larger than others of its class and still needed only half as many crew. I would have liked to have seen it, too, but not even Ann Zumwalt was given a tour of the inside.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
24. Yeah, I would figure that.
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 09:25 PM
Dec 2015

I bet it's pretty amazing.

The bridge must be state of the art.

jmowreader

(50,561 posts)
9. Admiral Zumwalt would have been shitcanned from today's military
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 05:12 PM
Dec 2015

They couldn't deal with him. Example: his "Z-Gram Number 57." Read this in its entirety; this was written by a leader people would follow no matter what his rank was.

FROM: CNO {Z-57}
TO: NAVOP
UNCLAS //NO1100//
102157Z NOV 70

DEMEANING OR ABRASIVE REGULATIONS, ELIMINATION OF

1. THOSE DEMEANING OR ABRASIVE REGULATIONS GENERALLY REFERRED TO IN THE FLEET AS "MICKEY MOUSE" OR "CHICKEN" REGS HAVE, IN MY JUDGMENT DONE ALMOST AS MUCH TO CAUSE DISSATISFACTION AMONG OUR PERSONNEL AS HAVE EXTENDED FAMILY SEPARATION AND LOW PAY SCALES. FOR THIS REASON, SHORTLY AFTER TAKING COMMAND I REQUESTED A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW OF CURRENT NAVAL POLICIES AND REGULATIONS. I DESIRE TO ELIMINATE MANY OF THE MOST ABRASIVE POLICIES, STANDARDIZE OTHERS WHICH ARE INCONSISTENTLY ENFORCED, AND PROVIDE SOME GENERAL GUIDANCE WHICH REFLECTS MY CONVICTION THAT IF WE ARE TO PLACE THE IMPORTANCE AND RESPONSIBILITY OF "THE PERSON" IN PROPER PERSPECTIVE IN THE MORE EFFICIENT NAVY WE ARE SEEKING, THE WORTH AND PERSONAL DIGNITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL MUST BE FORCEFULLY REAFFIRMED. THE POLICY CHANGES BELOW ARE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY AND WILL BE AMPLIFIED BY MORE DETAILED IMPLEMENTING DIRECTIVES TO BE ISSUED SEPARATELY.

A. IT APPEARS THAT MY PREDECESSOR'S GUIDANCE IN MAY ON THE SUBJECT OF HAIRCUTS, BEARDS AND SIDEBURNS IS INSUFFICIENTLY UNDERSTOOD AND, FOR THIS REASON, I WANT TO RESTATE WHAT I BELIEVED TO BE EXPLICIT: IN THE CASE OF HAIRCUTS, SIDEBURNS, AND CONTEMPORARY CLOTHING STYLES, MY VIEW IS THAT WE MUST LEARN TO ADAPT TO CHANGING FASHIONS. I WILL NOT COUNTENANCE THE RIGHTS OR PRIVILEGES OF ANY OFFICERS OR ENLISTED MEN BEING ABROGATED IN ANY WAY BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO GROW SIDEBURNS OR NEATLY TRIMMED BEARDS OR MOUSTACHES OR BECAUSE PREFERENCES IN NEAT CLOTHING STYLES ARE AT VARIANCE WITH THE TASTE OF THEIR SENIORS NOR WILL I COUNTENANCE ANY PERSONNEL BEING IN ANY WAY PENALIZED DURING THE TIME THEY ARE GROWING BEARDS, MOUSTACHES, OR SIDEBURNS

B. I VIEW THE PROHIBITION AGAINST THE WEARING OF CLEAN, NEAT WORKING UNIFORMS OR DUNGAREES TO AND FROM WORK AS UNWARRANTED AND I NOW DIRECT THAT IT BE SUSPENDED FOR THE CONVENIENCE OF ALL CONCERNED.

C. TO STANDARDIZE CURRENT PRACTICES, WORKING UNIFORMS, DUNGAREES, AND FLIGHT SUITS ARE AUTHORIZED IN ALL NAVAL COMMISSARIES. EXCHANGES, SNACK BARS, DISPENSARIES, DISBURSING OFFICES, AND OTHER SERVICE TYPE FACILITIES, AND NO ONE WILL BE DENIED ENTRANCE FOR BEING IN THE "IMPROPER" UNIFORM, ASSUMING THOSE WORN ARE CLEAN, NEAT, AND IN GOOD CONDITION. BASE COMMANDERS WILL REVIEW SIMILAR RESTRICTIONS APPLICABLE TO DEPENDENTS AND ADOPT REGULATIONS CONSISTENT WITH CURRENT FASHIONS.

D. THE REQUIREMENT FOR OFFICERS AND MEN TO SHIFT INTO THE UNIFORM OF THE DAY FOR THE EVENING MEAL WILL BE DISCONTINUED, EXCEPT FOR CEREMONIAL OR OTHER SPECIAL OCCASIONS OR BY DECISION OF THE GROUP OF PERSONNEL INVOLVED.

E. AT LEAST ONE ROOM OF EVERY NAVAL OFFICER, CPO, AND ENLISTED CLUB SHALL PERMIT THE WEARING OF INFORMAL AND CASUAL CLOTHES {SPORT SHIRT} AND NAS CLUBS SHALL SIMILARLY PERMIT FLIGHT SUITS IN AT LEAST ONE ROOM OF EACH CLUB.

F. WHERE OPTIONAL UNIFORMS ARE SPECIFIED BY THE AREA COMMANDER, THIS WILL MEAN OPTIONAL TO THE INDIVIDUAL AND NOT TO THE LOCAL COMMANDS, EXCEPT FOR SPECIAL OCCASIONS, SUCH AS INSPECTIONS, WHERE UNIFORMITY IS REQUIRED.

G. WHEN VISITING FLEET UNITS, I NOT ONLY DO NOT WISH TO SEE FRESH, PAINT APPLIED STRICTLY BECAUSE OF MY VISIT BUT CONSIDER THAT RUSTED SURFACES HASTILY PAINTED OVER ARE A REFLECTION OF POOR COMMAND DISCRETION. THIS TYPE OF PREPARATION FOR ANY SENIOR OFFICER VISIT SHALL BE PROHIBITED.

H. THE REQUIREMENTS TO CERTIFY THE POSSESSION OF SUFFICIENT FUNDS OR TO ACKNOWLEDGE GEOGRAPHICAL LIMITATIONS FOR LEAVE {EXCEPT FROM VIETNAM WHERE SPECIAL REGULATIONS APPLY} OR LIBERTY PURPOSES, TO PRODUCE PERSONAL PROPERTY PASSES, OR TO SHOW CERTIFIED PERMISSION TO BE AWAY FROM DUTY STATION {WALKING CHITS} PRESUPPOSES A GENERALIZED IRRESPONSIBILITY WHICH I DO NOT ACCEPT, AND THESE REQUIREMENTS WILL BE ELIMINATED.

I. IN VIEW OF THE REQUIREMENT FOR SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS FOR OPERATING MOTORCYCLES, SAFETY REGULATIONS MUST BE STRICTLY ENFORCED; HOWEVER, MOTORCYCLES SHOULD BE PERMITTED ENTRY AND ACCESS TO ALL NAVAL FACILITIES UNDER THE SAME CONDITIONS AS FOR AUTOMOBILES, AND CONVENIENT MOTORCYCLE PARKING AREAS WILL BE PROVIDED. FURTHERMORE, SO LONG AS THE HEAD GEAR MEETS SAFETY STANDARDS, NO MOTORCYCLE OPERATOR SHOULD IN ANY WAY BE PENALIZED OR DENIED ENTRY BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF HIS HEAD GEAR.

J. OVERNIGHT LIBERTY WILL NOT BE TREATED AS A PRIVILEGE FOR WHICH A SPECIAL REQUEST CHIT MUST BE SUBMITTED, BUT RATHER AS THE NORMAL FORM OF LIBERTY FOR OUR RESPONSIBLE SAILORS. EXCEPTIONS TO THIS POLICY WOULD BE MADE ONLY FOR EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES SUCH AS GOVERNMENT IMPOSED CURFEW OR EXTREMELY UNSATISFACTORY ENVIRONMENT, AND THEN ONLY UPON DETERMINATION OF THE SENIOR OFFICER PRESENT.

K. THE REQUIREMENT FOR LINE HANDLERS, REFUELING PARTIES, TOPSIDE WATCH STANDERS IN INCLEMENT WEATHER, BOAT CREWS IN HEAVY WEATHER, AND OTHERS WHO ARE ENGAGED IN WORK WHICH WOULD UNDULY SOIL OR DAMAGE SUCH UNIFORMS, TO PERFORM THE JOBS IN WHITES OR BLUES IS UNREASONABLE AND IS TO BE DISCONTINUED, EXCEPT FOR MOST UNUSUAL CEREMONIAL OCCASIONS.

L. THE OCCASIONAL PRACTICE OF REFUSING TO FORWARD A REQUEST FROM AN INDIVIDUAL TO HIGHER AUTHORITY WILL BE DISCONTINUED. IF PERSONNEL IN THE CHAIN HAVE GOOD REASON FOR NOT RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF A REQUEST, THEY SHOULD, OF COURSE, SO STATE, BUT THEY MUST FORWARD IT EXPEDITIOUSLY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

M. I. AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT A MORE LENIENT ATTITUDE TOWARD IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR BE ADOPTED, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT WE CANNOT PERMIT GENERAL POLICIES TO BE DICTATED BY THE NEED, WHICH I SUPPORT, TO CONSTRAIN THOSE FEW INDIVIDUALS WHO DO NOT RESPOND TO THE TRUST AND CONFIDENCE EXPRESSED IN MORE FLEXIBLE AND LESS RESTRICTIVE REGULATIONS.

E. R. ZUMWALT, JR., ADMIRAL, U.S NAVY,
CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS.

DFW

(54,415 posts)
14. Nixon hated Zumwalt's guts. The rank and file adored him.
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 06:27 PM
Dec 2015

The day before he left office, Nixon ordered the Secretary of Defense, Jim Schlesinger, to fire Zumwalt. Schlesinger refused, and Nixon's resignation was in effect too soon for him to do anything further about it. Schlesinger knew that you don't fire a man the rank and file would follow to the ends of the earth.

DFW

(54,415 posts)
17. That puts you ahead of me.
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 06:41 PM
Dec 2015

He died less than a year before our families met.

We have been good friends for many years now, and our daughters are close to his granddaughters, and we were at the wedding of the older one in September. Good people.

hunter

(38,321 posts)
11. Military stuff makes me nuts.
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 05:48 PM
Dec 2015

My grandfather was an Army Air Force officer who'd enlisted during the Great Depression because work was scarce and he liked airplanes. Honestly, nothing more than that, no great patriotic inclinations, no sacred duties, nothing heroic. He liked airplanes and he wasn't afraid of math. The Army Air Force was hiring.

Because my grandfather was an autistic spectrum klutz with bad eyes who easily got airsick, and could get sick on a bus or train too, the Army Air Force never allowed him much flying. The person you don't want to sit near, the sort who'd puke on you, or tell you very disturbing things you didn't want to know, things that might make you sick.

In World War II I suspect my grandfather did some very, very sketchy work. I've some documentation too. He was sometimes the handsome impeccably uniformed military officer who'd arrive in the middle of the night in a big black military car with an enlisted driver, carrying a "get out of jail free" card.

Good job, Mr. Small Town Law Enforcement Officer. We'll take care of this.

My grandfather never ever talked about that work, and I don't think it was for reasons of Elmer Fudd style habitual military secrecy.



Suppose one of my grandpa's guys was picked up running down the middle of the street, drunk, disorderly, and naked. Or one of his guys was caught up in a a gay bar raid. Or someone disreputable with ties to Italian organized crime wants to support the war effort... Those were the kind of side-jobs my grandfather was sometimes assigned, those were the sorts of people he managed. Inside his head was just as much a mess as some of the people he managed, but I think he was a better actor, playing the roll of someone "in charge," the responsible credentialed adult.

Retired from the military, bumming around from job to job as an eccentric consultant, mostly DC-3 / C-47 related stuff, my grandpa was hired on as an engineer for the Apollo Project. Somewhere in his adventures he'd established a close personal don't-ask-don't-tell relationship with titanium and a few other "exotic" lightweight alloys.

Sure, my grandpa was part of the team that defeated Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. His motivations? You do what you have to do. Shit happens.

But little bits of metal my grandfather designed, various parts of the craft that brought humans to the moon and safely back, those were his pride and joy, and he considered this work the crowning achievement of his aerospace career.

I'm absolutely certain there are thousands of people who built this destroyer, everyone from the most ordinary laborer to the most brilliant engineers, who'd wished they could have found work building something that wasn't a war machine.

My own brief encounters with the Military Industrial Complex never ended well.

DFW

(54,415 posts)
16. At the christening, Senator King had the best thing to say about it
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 06:34 PM
Dec 2015

He said his most fervent hope was that the ship's formidable armaments never be used in battle. I'm sure Zumwalt himself would have echoed that sentiment.

hunter

(38,321 posts)
20. I'm certain some of my grandfather's talents were used in war...
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 07:36 PM
Dec 2015

... in ways he wouldn't have approved of, which twisted him more than he might have been otherwise.

Even though my grandpa never experienced combat on the front lines (whatever that is, or so far as I know,) he'd sometimes have that same haunted look I've seen in veterans who have experienced wartime killing and dying up close and personal.

I've got an acquaintance who shot and killed two kids in Vietnam with his sidearm. They were trying to kill him as well, he merely had the better training, weapon, and position. Their first shots merely wounded him, not badly either. He figures the two kids were maybe fourteen or fifteen. He was only a few years older, but he tells how he thought himself the adult and they just children, and how it wasn't until his forties that he realized he'd been nearly so much a child as they were.

Random horrors.

DFW

(54,415 posts)
22. My grandfather and father-in-law experienced all that up close as well
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 08:48 PM
Dec 2015

My grandfather, to the day he died (and he was 102 with all his marbles intact) would only say the trenches of France were too horrible to talk about. End of discussion.

My father in law was drafted in 1942, sent to Stalingrad at age 17, turned 18 in the oncoming winter there. In the dead of winter, he was lying there with one leg blown off by an artillery shell, all the city boys (he was a farmer) in his unit long frozen to death, and got picked up at the last moment by a retreating unit. They nursed him back to life at a field hospital in the Ukraine, sent him home as an 18 year old cripple who would never work on his farm again. He never talked about it either, only calling out to long-dead guys in his unit to watch out for incoming artillery while fading away in his last delirium before he died in his 70s--over 50 years after it happened. He kept it bottled up all that time.

Random horrors, indeed. I can relate to Sen. King's sentiments.

DFW

(54,415 posts)
15. Not in this case, anyway
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 06:29 PM
Dec 2015

They probably didn't have a term for it and used the best they could put together with terms they had.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
21. The fact that it has ballast tanks to reduce it's above-water radar profile...
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 08:40 PM
Dec 2015

... suggests an obvious limitation - it will always have above-water surfaces.

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