Salman Rushie death sentence

[patsimp]

It would be interesting to find out what proportion of the muslim community supports the death sentence against Salman Rushie because of the alleged blasphemy against the religion. I'm sorry, but to me this is intolerant and concerning. I don't know of any other modern religion that has supported such an action, especially at the state level. I have asked some of my muslim friends this question and was shocked to find that more than half either supported or 'understood' the death sentence against an innocent writer.

[JI7]

1. there are some Christians who support death penalty for gays

[patsimp]

2. true - and i denounce them every chance i get. I certainly do not embrace their viewpoint.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

3. That's not

the response pat is looking for...

[patsimp]

4. it was a good point

[LittleBlue]

7. Yes, but when they do, we don't say "these aren't real Christians"

We are allowed to confront Christian fundamentalists and examine the irrationality behind Christian doctrine. Pretending that every Muslim who does something bad isn't a real Muslim prevents any critical examination of Islam.

Only through hundreds of years of questioning and criticizing Christian doctrine did we become a tolerant, multicultural society. Islam is stunted by comparison. In much of the Islamic world it is illegal, on penalty of imprisonment or death, to criticize Islam. In the west, it has become politically incorrect.

The westerners who think they're being tolerant by suppressing criticism of Islam are actually enabling its worst practices to continue. Islam needs reform for the sake of everyone, most of all its own followers.

[patsimp]

13. Christianity does not kill anyone who questions their doctrine for the most part. Islam teaches

that anyone who is not muslim is to be killed, and not to think or question the religion because that was blasphemous. how is it going to evolve. Someone puts a movie that is deemed blasphemous on youtube and there are riots and killings all over the world. Cartoonists are killed for their drawings. Why was California attacked by 2 people and there may be a network of supporters? The people in California were killed because of radical Islamic hatred.

[LittleBlue]

16. I recall a passage from the Bible advocating killing disobedient children

Found it.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ESV / 166 helpful votes

“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+21

The main difference between Islam and Christianity is that Christians don't practice their religion as literally. They've dropped the most insane practices so that we can have nice things. Islam needs to get there. And continuing reform is happening, and allowed to happen, in Christianity and Judaism.

[countingbluecars]

17. "Islam teaches that anyone who is not muslim

is to be killed"? Really? Could you give me a link?

[patsimp]

19. seriously, this is common knowledge about what islam says should be done with infidels

the fact that there are so many different answers is a huge concern in itself.

you don't need me to do a simple google search on this.

[countingbluecars]

21. Since you have so many muslim friends,

are you constantly afraid that they will kill you?

[patsimp]

22. i'm not parnoid.

[Xolodno]

31. Riiiiiiggggghhhhtttt!!!!!!!!

Say that to some dead relatives of mine for being "heretics" a century ago. FYI...they were killed by "Christians". The media focuses on the radicals....because that's what sells. Before Islam it was:

Jews
Chinese
Irish
Eastern Europeans
etc.

Add to that, I know of people who lament the fact they can't "deal with heretics" in a more "strong way due to the laws".

[smirkymonkey]

25. +1000

[melman]

26. lol

It's like a reflex.

[countingbluecars]

5. I think it is mainly extremists who

wish death on Rushdie.

[patsimp]

10. that's why i'd like to see a ratio. From the friends i've spoken with

more than half are not outraged against the death sentence. They either support the death sentence or say that they understand it. Some say that Rusdie should have known better.

As a poster reminded me above, some Christians want gay people to be put to death. When I ask that from the Christians I know, not one said death should be the answer, about 1/3 believe it's a sin and the person should change. Many said it doesn't matter to them. Not one Christian I've spoken to says that anyone painting a picture of Jesus Christ (even if it was a negative rendition) should be put to death. Neither have I found any Hindu's who are going to riot and kill because someone is denigrating one of their religious symbols.

[NightWatcher]

6. Ah, Religion

I've no use for any of it.

We do not live in the Dark Ages. We know why things happen and no longer need to attribute them to magic and supernatural deities. Adherents to religions are taking their devotion to fundamentalist extremes and the rest of the world is suffering due to their willful ignorance and hatred.

[KG]

8. cool story, bro.

[Nye Bevan]

9. Cat Stevens supported it, for one.

He replied, "He must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear – if someone defames the prophet, then he must die."[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Stevens%27_comments_about_Salman_Rushdie

[patsimp]

11. i stopped listening to his music as a result and have no respect for him

[Eugene]

12. Prominent Muslims did denounce the death sentence at the time.

At least one of them was assassinated by militants.

Apparently, even Sharia Law has a concept of due processes,
and a cleric can't legitimately just put a price on someone's
head as the Iranians did.

It is important to note that there are the moderates
and then there are the men with the guns and the bombs.

[patsimp]

14. so the moderate was assassinated. doesn't that imply that the moderates will be killed off by the

others?

[patsimp]

15. but the moderates i spoke with, and i do have a lot of muslim friends

did not on the whole condemn the contract on Rushdie. As a statistical cross section, I was shocked at what I was hearing, that someone who says they believe in a benevolent God would so easily support the execution of another being for expressing an opinion they did not share. Some said to me that they would willingly stone Rushdie so that in death he could atone for his sins.

These were not gun toting radicals, but the ones I meet everywhere. And they supported some sort of Sharia law where someone's hands should be amputated if they stole anything.

[LanternWaste]

18. my firm belief is you hold the Muslim faith to a much higher standard

After having read this thread, and the responses of yours on another thread from yesterday, my firm belief is you hold the Muslim faith to a much higher standard than the Christian faith. Whether this inconsistency of yours is due to bias, or simply a dramatic lack of relevant and necessary knowledge, I will not hazard a guess...

Regardless, the information is available to you should you wish to actually do research. Otherwise, I'll presume your mind is made up, your OP is simply flame-bait and you unwittingly allow your Freudian slip to show.


"I have asked some of my muslim (sic) friends this question and was shocked to find..."
That's quite the allegation. Some may even believe it to be true and sincere.

[patsimp]

20. i am neither muslim or christian so i don't have a bias. i'm simply relating what i've heard

there is not need for me to make something up - very few people are going to read DU and even fewer will ever have their minds changed.

I guess, my standards started to change after 911 and what I was hearing in response to that event.

[LanternWaste]

23. Being neither one nor the other has little relevance to bias.

"i am neither muslim or christian so i don't have a bias."
Being neither one nor the other has little to no relevance to inherent bias.

"there is not need for me to make something up"
Need also is irrelevant when desire and drama can as effectively take its place.

[whatthehey]

24. 28% in the UK at the time

I was studying there in the late 80s. The Muslim population there was less insular and more integrated than it has apparently since become according to pretty much universal agreement of my British contacts, all left-leaning, so an analogous survey now may yield higher results. It was actually the source of the only negative action I saw from the Asian population in a very multicultural area. A spray-painted "Rushdie must die" on a brick wall.

As a fan of his work, apart from the godawful Grimus that is, I was bemused by how few of the protestors could explain why the book was offensive. I didn't expect them to have invested the time in actual critical reading of a complex book that their faith leaders declared blasphemous, but I would have expected more of them to find out what its blasphemy was.

Incidentally while I reject the very concept of blasphemy, there is no denying that an even vaguely informed reader would recognize plenty of intentionally insulting allusions to Islam as well as the direct aspersions cast on Quranic inspiration, which is itself a medieval anecdote that arose fairly quickly. Hardly warranting a death penalty obviously, but not excactly gentle innocent tweaks either.

[patsimp]

27. that's it exactly. how can we even talk about what the intensity of the tweaks and a death sentence

together? How did this even become a possibility.

[whatthehey]

29. Not sure I understand

Overreactions however extreme are still reactions, and it's not condoning fundie lunacy to say what triggered it. It's not like they picked his name out of a hat after all. This is not apologetics. I consider even moderate observant Muslims, just like their Christian or Jewish or Hindu yadda yadda counterparts to be credulous superstitious folk who could do with a remedial course on critical thinking. I consider any of them who would support a death sentence for a novel to be certifiable lunatics. And the people who declared the fatwa to be vicious evil certifiable lunatics.

That however doesn't mean I don't ask why they made those vicious evil lunatic decisions

[patsimp]

28. my basis question at the top was how many muslims support the death penalty for Rusdie?

if the answer isn't 99.99999999999 against the death penalty for Rusdie, I think there is a problem

[whatthehey]

30. And I answered the Q. Surely true. There's no crazy like Gawd crazy regardless of the name you use.

I'm however unaware of anyone not a fundy Muslim saying that wanting to execute novelists for making fun of religion is NOT a problem. Any references?