Muhammad Ali Hits at Trump and 'Misguided Murderers' Sabotaging Islam

[IDemo]

Like the champion fighter he is, Muhammad Ali took jabs Wednesday at "so called Islamic Jihadists" and those who would "use Islam to advance their own personal agenda."

"I am a Muslim and there is nothing Islamic about killing innocent people in Paris, San Bernardino, or anywhere else in the world," the former heavyweight champion of the world and peace activist declared in a statement to NBC News. "True Muslims know that the ruthless violence of so called Islamic Jihadists goes against the very tenets of our religion."

But the real target of Ali's roundhouse was Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.

The statement never mentions Trump by name — but its headline is "Presidential Candidates Proposing to Ban Muslim Immigration to the United States."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/muhammad-ali-hits-trump-misguided-murderers-sabotaging-islam-n477351

[brer cat]

1. I am so glad he is speaking out.

A great man, and still stinging like a bee.

[Hoyt]

2. Ali is the greatest, from his stand against killing Asians to this.

[bullwinkle428]

3. K&R. Just wait for Von Clownstick to respond to him by

calling him "Cassius Clay".

[LonePirate]

4. An American Hero vs. an American Zero. Go Ali!

[Skittles]

5. longtime fan of Mr. Ali

I never liked boxing but he has always seemed to be larger than life

[Yorktown]

6. Words, words, words

"I am a Muslim and there is nothing Islamic about killing innocent people in Paris, San Bernardino, or anywhere else in the world," the former heavyweight champion of the world and peace activist declared in a statement to NBC News. "True Muslims know that the ruthless violence of so called Islamic Jihadists goes against the very tenets of our religion."

It is this type of empty denial which contributes to postpone the much needed reform of Islam. It is misleading to argue literalism goes against the tenets of religion.

Many honest Muslim commentators acknowledge that ISIS, the rest of the jihadist crew and the wahhabis and salafis are very Islamic: they are literalists.

The texts of the abrahamic religions all are extreme and dangerous if applied literally. The only known cure to dilute their poison is an unwavering secular pressure/counterweight.

[Dorian Gray]

7. literalism is dangerous

and you are right on one level, but adding a voice condemning the murderers and Trump is a good thing. The vast majoirty of muslims in our country are peaceful, law-abiding Americans. And they are starting to experience hatred and bigotry on levels that are really scary to me.

The terror is winning out in many places, and it's causing people to act in out their innermost feelings. It sucks. I'm more afraid that our society is going to be further mired in hatred and bigotry than I am of being attacked by a terrorist. I see the former as a larger systemic problem more likely to happen.

The war drums are being pounded on!

[Yorktown]

8. Two wrongs don't make a right

It's not because Trump is wrong that what Ali says is right.

Both of what they are saying is dangerous in its own way.

[Ford_Prefect]

13. The central tenets of Islam do not advocate nor support the violent gangsterism found in ISIL.

Instead it seems they use Islam as an excuse to use violence to control other people. They are no more faithfully Islamic than the so-called "Christians' who advocate a similar social and literal violence against those they do not approve of here in America. They are absolutist, yes. But the religious purity they claim to represent lacks the compassion at the heart of any truly faithful act.

If God created human beings therefore they are as God intended them to be; not perfect reproductions of God. Is not Allah also merciful?

The Christian Purists of another era sought to enforce their understanding of God's word by means of the Inquisition. The horror that movement unleashed is still at work today dividing the so-called true faith from those who chose to find other meanings in scripture.

Ali's statement is grounded in contemporary practice and faithful reading of scripture. His advocacy of peace is both well known and grounded in his faith.

To consider such a remark is dangerous is to assume that Islamic faith is uniformly practiced. There are divergent views between various segments of Islam. Religious practice is moderated and informed by local culture and traditions. Chechnya, Turkey, Iran, Chicago, Singapore, Indonesia, Paris, and Morocco all have Islamic communities, yet in practice are quite different in many large and small ways.

[Yorktown]

17. Please check this article by 'The Atlantic': "the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic."

The Quran and hadiths -like the Torah/Old Testament- are books full of literal commands to commit religious violence.

The fact that the believers do not apply their texts (Jews and Christians do not apply the Torah/OT/NT either) is evidence that all these texts are inapplicable if one is sane.

Excellent article by the Atlantic here, 'What ISIS really wants':
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

[Ford_Prefect]

19. ISIS is made up of people who substitute absolutism for reason and use it as an excuse for violence.

As with certain "Christian" sects in North America they seem to apply some traditions and ignore others. The internet technology they so enthusiastically embrace is a case in point.

I am quite aware of what they claim to want. Those claims are at odds with their behavior. They are not the 1st revolution to claim moral high ground yet resort to absolutist dogma to explain their vicious behavior. You cannot be preparing for the battle at the end of the world at the same time you are cashing in on your neighbor's oil field. They pretend to be piously pursuing Islam yet they act like the Mafia. Sorry but it don't work that way, as those who have left them have testified. Rather than some kind of holy crusaders they appear more and more to be the jaded thrill seekers who live for the moments of violence they inflict and the power trip of subduing and torturing others. Adrenaline junkies take note.

It's the same horror show we have seen before in Cambodia and Jonestown. they are not principled men doing their distorted version of a holy dance. They are Thugs whose excuse for direction is a wretched license to murder, rape and pillage. They are dangerous, driven people who have narrowed their vision of the world to allow only one kind of answer to any question.

While one may sympathize with the terrors of war which underlie their genesis, one does not accept the violence they espouse, regardless of the sophistry used to legitimize it.

I do not believe that delivering more violence to the region will improve things. They are being used just as we are to play a great game of international Chinese Checkers over Oil and who gets to control it. If they cannot sell the oil they have taken and cannot buy more ammunition, food, or medicine with it they will be forced to deal with their situation in quite different terms.
Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and a few others are funding ISIS either directly or by third parties. Until this cash flow is curtailed nothing else will accomplish their end.

[Yorktown]

20. Did you read the article I linked?

What the article claims is that the main motivation of the ISIS members is religious. Very religious. Not, as you claim, "Thugs whose excuse for direction is a wretched license to murder, rape and pillage".

[Ford_Prefect]

22. I read it last march when it was published and since then again.

I contend that both conditions exist. They they see themselves as a devout religious group and that they excuse much excess by applying 6th century religious rules to current situations. That does not change the measure of their murderous actions.

What was true in Cambodia is also true in Syria and Iraq. The Khmer Rouge were the same kind of driven true believers who murdered roughly 2 million people who were less than perfectly pious in their faith in revolution. While Daesh claims the "True Faith of Islam" and the right to judge and punish others less faithful, that assertion does not make them arbiters of the faith.

They are still thugs with magical excuses in my book. So too is Falwell, Jr.

You can still starve their cash flow to help subdue them. Force them to accept political boundaries they claim have no merit. The author said that to defeat them you must bring them down to earth in one way or another. You can still insist that the Saudis, Qatar and Turkey cannot have it both ways. Unless you had in mind to further enable our own endless warriors and their looting of the public till.

[Yorktown]

23. It can start at home, in democracies

Force a change in the doctrine.

Example: an imam in Germany preaching that a man has every right to force his wive to have sex whenever he wants. Or imams who preach gays are degenerates. Ban both.

That would be difficult in Europe because politicians there are paralysed by fears of riots, and near impossible in the US because all the Christian Churches would howl to death, knowing they too would be targeted.

Which is why I am not too optimistic this whole Islam issue will be resolved without war/violence, as Western democracies do not appear ready to do bring some spring cleaning to freedom of religion at home.

[Jack Rabbit]

9. A leading American Muslim minister speaks out against terrorists

Now, will this be reported on FoxNews?

[jalan48]

10. Can't argue with Ali.

[H2O Man]

11. The Champ!

One of his daughters recently sent me some photographs of The Champ with his family on Thanksgiving. He looked like he was feeling pretty good.

I'm always happy to listen to what this great man has to say.

Recommended!

[joanbarnes]

12. He is One of My Heroes.

[brush]

16. Mine too.

[spanone]

14. a man of unwavering principles.

[panader0]

15. Ali is one of the most respected men in the world.

His words have weight. Thanks Muhammad.

[rpannier]

18. Trump should pay a visit to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

But he's a coward.
You won't find the Donald within 6 feet of Ali or Jabbar
Unless he has a large security team present

[Fast Walker 52]

21. Awesome... and for some reason I thought he had died

so double awesome

[nitpicker]

24. BBC's version

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35058601

Boxing legend Muhammad Ali criticises Donald Trump

14 minutes ago

From the section US & Canada


Boxing legend Muhammad Ali has criticised US Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump's proposal to ban Muslims from entering America.

Without naming Mr Trump, Mr Ali said that Muslims "have to stand up to those who use Islam to advance their own personal agenda".
(snip)

Mr Ali's statement was directed at "presidential candidates proposing to ban Muslim immigration to the United States". "They have alienated many from learning about Islam," he said.

(snip)
"True Muslims know that the ruthless violence of so called Islamic Jihadists goes against the very tenets of our religion," he said. "These misguided murderers have perverted people's views on what Islam really is."
(snip)

[napkinz]

25. ...