A couple of friends go to a shooting range a couple of days ago out in California...

[kentuck]

There were five young men, looked to be Middle Eastern descent, that they had not seen there before. They were loud and boisterous and laughing. The other people at the range were intimidated and made a bit nervous by their actions.

What should they have done? Or what should they do?

They said everyone took notice of their presence.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

1. If the range has a range officer in charge,

it's that person's responsibility to enforce safety discipline.

If not, it's everyone's responsibility to ensure the range is used safely.

If the guys are using the range safely, then "loud and laughing" should not be a problem.

Any time I feel a range is unsafe, I have a solution: leave. Fortunately, this is a rare occurrence on the ranges that I use. And usually, the loud boisterous ones seem to be of European descent.

[kentuck]

2. I don't think they were "being unsafe"...

Just the fact that 5 Middle Easterners, in their 20's, were making a scene at the firing range should not raise any red flags? Is that right?

[Downwinder]

3. A firing range is not a place to be "making a scene."

Be they Middle Easterners or Texans.

But who is to worry, everybody has a gun.

[kentuck]

4. I think if we look back on all the mass shooters....

They all visited firing ranges.

Why are firing ranges so hard to monitor?

[Downwinder]

7. I don't remember Charles Whitman

visiting a range other than military. If he did I doubt it would have been a concern.

[kentuck]

8. In Texas, everywhere is a firing range...

[Downwinder]

11. Might have that right.

Had to replace a window in Main Street with a bullet hole in it.

[kentuck]

13. :-)

[CanSocDem]

29. The USA...

...the world's largest outdoor firing range.


.

[Demit]

6. The OP didn't claim they were "making a scene."

Edited to add: I see the OP is you. Did your friend claim they were making a scene? What was unusual about this—that they were a group? Was it the size of the group? What's the maximum number of friends who go together to the range, usually? Was it that they were enjoying themselves? Would your friends have felt more comfortable if they had looked grim & serious?

[kentuck]

9. I'm not sure if that is an accurate statement or not?

They wanted everyone to see them. I don't know if you would call that "making a scene" or not?

[Demit]

12. I edited my post after I saw that you're the OP.

I don't know how a group of friends doing a recreational activity is supposed to act, in your mind. How does your group of friends act when you're all together? I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that they "wanted everyone to see them." Is your group of friends, when you're together, even aware of "everyone" who is in the same place you are?

[kentuck]

16. They said everyone at the range noticed...

and were uncomfortable with the situation. Beyond that, I have no idea how they were "acting".

[Demit]

26. I don't understand the point of your post then, with such scant information.

Of course, your friends were reacting on scant information, too.

[kentuck]

27. Yes, there is fear being instilled in a lot of people...

in my opinion. But, this was not usual behavior by anyone they had seen before at the shooting range. It was disruptive and disturbing to them.

Do you believe they should do nothing? Or not enough information?

[Demit]

34. Other than convey their suspicions to whoever's in charge, of course.

I believe the answer is in your own question: Or not enough information?

Right after 9/11, if more Americans had been aware that it is Sikhs who wear turbans, and Sikhs are not Arabs or Muslims, they might not have roughed them up or vandalized their property.

I guess, for now, anyone who "looks Middle Eastern" better not get together with their friends in public. And if they do, god forbid they should laugh.

[Abouttime]

20. I would be more worried if they were 5 white Christians

The majority of terrorism in our country is perpetuated by white males, sad to say they are the ones deserving of profiling.

[Yo_Mama]

39. It depends on your definition of "making a scene".

Loud and laughing might be applied to many groups of young men out for a day.

If the "scene" was mostly not because they were boisterous, but because they were Middle Eastern, then no, it would not raise red flags.

If the behavior was inappropriate in and of itself (too disruptive to other shooters, unsafe horsing around), then contact the range supervisor or whoever.

[trumad]

5. They were probably Puerto Rican's

And the people who took notice were probably idiots.

[kentuck]

10. You are probably correct, Trumad...

..but the other folks at the range were rather upset with the behaviors of the 5 young guys that looked "Middle Eastern". I don't know what type of guns they had with them?

[GreatGazoo]

14. was it these guys.... (?)

[madville]

15. Here's a link

http://www.dhs.gov/see-something-say-something

[kentuck]

17. I didn't see it.

Friends in California saw it.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. Mother and son go to a shooting range in Connecticut.

What should people have done?

Funny thing about mass shootings. There are dozens of different motivations--religious extremism, racial hatred, workplace grudges, school bullying, or just plain psychosis. But there is one common thread among them all. I wonder what it is....

[kentuck]

23. They all go to a shooting range.

They want to see how their toys work...

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. I would take notice. Am I supposed to feel bad about saying that?

Because I don't. I've been to a number of ranges, over the course of 40 years or so. It's never been my experience that groups of people go there and get loud and boisterous. It's more like shooting ranges have been very loud libraries. Personally, if I encountered a group acting that way I'd wonder if maybe they were intoxicated. I'd probably wonder if they were paying attention what they were doing, and I'd wonder if my own safety was at stake. I was taught from a very early age that shooting was deadly serious business.

If they were acting in a manner that made me feel sufficiently unsafe I'd probably leave, and on the way out I would say something to the range master.

Is there something wrong with that? Their ancestry wouldn't have a single thing to do with it as far as I'm concerned. Only the way they were acting would.

[Demit]

36. Yours is an interesting post.

It made me think: You go to a shooting range, where you (and everyone!) has a gun and live ammunition.

Isn't your safety always at stake? You never know when someone is going to turn sideways & start shooting everyone in the place.

Alternately, isn't a shooting range the safest place to be? Everyone is armed, and thus can protect themselves from the bad guy.

[Lurks Often]

21. Not nearly enough information

There is nothing wrong with being of Middle Eastern descent
There is nothing wrong with being loud, boisterous and laughing

If people felt intimidated and nervous by just that, I would say they were over-reacting, even though it is somewhat understandable in CA right now to feel that way.

If I had been there and felt nervous or intimidated based on more then above, I would have got their license plate(s) numbers and given a heads up to the local PD and let them deal with from there.

[Person 2713]

41. Gonna report people having a good time?

[Lurks Often]

43. No, apparently you didn't read my post well enough either

"There is nothing wrong with being of Middle Eastern descent
There is nothing wrong with being loud, boisterous and laughing

If people felt intimidated and nervous by just that, I would say they were over-reacting, even though it is somewhat understandable in CA right now to feel that way.

If I had been there and felt nervous or intimidated based on more then above, I would have got their license plate(s) numbers and given a heads up to the local PD and let them deal with from there."

[Ms. Yertle]

22. I don't understand the point of this OP

Is there a correct answer?

The other people at the range felt "intimidated" and "nervous" by the boisterousness, loudness, and laughter of young men who appeared to be Middle Eastern.

If they had reported it (to whom, BTW?) there was nothing that would or could or should have been done. Laughter is not suspicious behavior.

What they should have done is exactly what they (probably) did. Nothing. This is much, much different from the neighbor of the terrorists in California, who saw extremely suspicious behavior and chose not to report it.

It's even a lot different from the actions regarding "clock boy." He brought what would appear to reasonable people to be a bomb to school, and someone reported it.

We all need to step back and take a deep breath. Report suspicious behavior, but try to use some judgment as to what constitutes suspicious behavior.

[kentuck]

24. All the nervous people were licensed gun owners...

I don't know if that makes a difference.

[Ms. Yertle]

25. Not to me.

But, I've never been to a gun range.

Do you think loud laughter is suspicious behavior at a range?

[kentuck]

28. Yes, probably so.

There are loud noises but it is usually from the guns, not the shooters. Unless they are drunk...then they have no business on the range anyway.

[Yo_Mama]

40. I don't shoot, but I do know people who are into it.

You can get tossed from a range or a club very easily for any inappropriate behavior.

Safety issues are paramount, for obvious reasons. But behaving badly, disruptively, unsafely, aggressively - you will get tossed very quickly.

[bklyncowgirl]

30. See something say something. Is profiling right? I don't know what the right answer is?

After the San Bernadino shooting, it's to be expected.

If they're all speaking English and talking about going on a hunting trip a few weeks later I wouldn't be nervous. If they were all speaking English and then switched to Arabic or some other language when they talked about other subjects, I'd be more concerned. Call me a profiler, if you want.

You had a man going to a shooting gallery with his burqa clad totally silent wife. Not so suspicious until they shoot up the guy's office Christmas party and become the Jihadi Bonny and Clyde. Do nice deeply conservative Muslim women normally shoot guns? I don't know. Perhaps if the gallery owner had called the authorities and the cops stopped by their house for a visit, this might have been averted and the headlines would read "Terrorist attack foiled." Perhaps if that UPS guy who wondered why this couple was getting so many packages had warned the authorities they would be in prison today and fourteen people would be alive.

Any middle eastern person who goes to a flying school is now going to be scrutinized thanks to Mohammed Atta and his gang. Is it fair? Probably not.

Think of the warning signs of this attack: American born man goes to Saudi Arabia and returns with a wife so conservative that his brothers have never seen her face. He holds extreme anti-Israeli views and clashes with a Jewish co-worker. He likes to go to shooting galleries--sometimes with his wife--hey what could be more all American than that. He gets lots of packages around November--early Christmas presents--I mean does the UPS guy even know they're Muslim? All of these things, seen alone are not ominous--taken together yeah it starts to get scary.

Lots of innocent Muslims from sects totally that would never support Isis, sects that are targeted by Isis are going to come under suspicion. So are Sikhs, Hindus, Syrian Orthodox, Copts and anyone else who looks like they come from that part of the world.

[Iggo]

31. Wow.

Armed to the teeth and in their "safe space" and they're still scared out of their wits.

What should they have done? Put down their guns and go home and hide.

[ileus]

32. keep shooting....and carry on.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

33. Those people were scared and intimidated based on their racism. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

35. I'd have considered just saying "hi."

I'd be content playing the probabilities: chances are (extremely) good that they're there to do precisely what I'd be there for: getting in some practice and having fun.

[REP]

44. It depends upon what they were doing that was "intimidating"

If it was having dark skin, well, ...

If it was unsafe behavior, which I have seen at a range by someone who had no business at a range, I'd contact the Range Master asap. My husband, who is a former Range Master and a competitive shooter, will offer help to anyone who is just making a mistake and not being a danger.

Just a lot of laughing without unsafe behavior is a little unusual but not so unusual it would freak me out.

[Lizzie Poppet]

45. Oh, for sure.

I've seen some shenanigans at the range a few times over the years...and each time, the Range Master shut it down. Nothing that seemed like deliberate intent...just people who had no clue how to behave.

[REP]

46. The worst thing I ever heard of -

And it was terrible - was a suicide when my husband was still working at the range. He wasn't on duty that day, thanks be, but it was awful for everyone.

[Rex]

37. Sounds like they were having fun. Why didn't your friends strike up a conversation?

Just assuming something based on looks is stupid to the extreme. You have to get intel first and your friends seemed too scared to do so I would drop it since they failed to get intel of any kind.

Plus if someone 'normal' at the range would have walked up to them and talked to them, the other 'normal' people would have felt more relaxed and calmed down. However that did not happen, the 'normal' people were all too scared in their racist minds to show any kind of friendship.

[Person 2713]

38. They should sign up for a class in diversity

Can't be laughing in public if you are not white we already have seen that message for all POC
If you are laughing and not white you must be up to something is what stupid fearful people think
Good thing your friends were not getting on a plane freaking out about some ME passengers and trying to deny fellow citizens the right to fly.
Good thing they had thie blankey guns to keep to make them feel safe
Maybe go home and stick their guns in their mouths and suck on them like scared little babies who always need their binkies

[LanternWaste]

42. A most creative story.

A most creative story. An ominous soundtrack (Hans Zimmer, maybe?) would certainly add what mere implication is unable to.