Of all children aged 0 to 14 killed by guns in developed countries 87% Are US children.

[kpete]

:large
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/12/4/9851102/gun-deaths-us-children

[Skittles]

1. gun humpers will be along shortly with their own NRA facts

[Decoy of Fenris]

3. How about Factcheck? They disagree with the OP.

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/01/child-homicides/

Q: Is it true that 85 percent of all the children killed by guns in the world are killed in the United States?
A: No. This statistic, misused by the husband of former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, refers to a study of 23 high-income countries in 2003 that made up less than 14 percent of the world’s population. A coauthor of that study says the percentage of children killed in the world who lived in the U.S. is “well, well, well under 85 percent.”

Quickedit: Yes, I'm aware the infographic says "Developed" nation. Factcheck addresses that further down their answer as well.

[Skittles]

6. OK how about this fact

TOO MANY CHILDREN ARE KILLED BY SENSELESS GUN ACCIDENTS / MURDERS IN AMERICA

would gun humping pieces of SHIT agree with THAT?

[Daninmo]

9. why is it OK

"would gun humping pieces of SHIT agree with THAT?"

This is the kind of attack I would expect from the extreme rightwing nuts. I'm a 30+ year proud union member, and been brought up with democratic values since I was a child. I also hunt, fish, and target shoot. I can only imagine the outrage if I were to call someone here, pro abortion humping pieces of SHIT, or gay rights, whatever, I would get edited, or even banned. Why is it OK, to always bash us that believe that the 2nd Amendment as ruled, interpreted by the SCOTUS, gives us the right to keep and bear arms.

[Skittles]

10. once again

people more upset over names than the fact that gun massacres are now the NORM in America

*over and OUT*

[Logical]

15. NRA member? nt

[Decoy of Fenris]

13. Probably not, considering it's not a verifiable fact.

I'm not sure you have a solid grasp of what a "Fact" is... Appeals to emotion and/or unverifiable or subjective statements ("Too many&quot aren't facts.

I agree with you that too many children die to firearms, but it's no more a fact than a random series of nonsense words.

[Skittles]

16. ALRIGHTY THEN

I can clearly see what elicits your angst, and what does not.

OVER AND OUT

[Decoy of Fenris]

17. Not much elicits my angst. Angst is a pretty damn useless thing.

Don't know why you need to "Clearly see" it, though; I like to think I'm a pretty up front sort of fellow.

[hack89]

22. It's DU performance art

just another poster maintaining an Internet persona.

[DirkGently]

7. No, Factcheck does not disagree with the OP. At all.

The problem is that Kelly left out an important qualifier.

The Factcheck piece says that when Gabriele Giffords's husband made the statement, he neglected to include the qualifier about developed nations. It does not "deal with that further down their answer" -- the only point it makes is that you need the qualifier to make the statement accurate.

[Decoy of Fenris]

11. Granted, and I rescind my above post appropriately.

Though I do take issue with the numbers in the study (The actual percentage is almost exactly 80) and the methodology itself, including exclusions of certain bits of data, my above statement is incorrect. That's what I get for typing with a baby in one arm and a cat on the other.

[rufus dog]

21. No, is is not almost exactly 80%, it is 87%!

So the OP was correct and you provided the link to support the OP.

Now many would say that it doesn't matter, 80% or 87%, either way it is horrible.

But here is the issue, many, including gun advocates will pick apart minor discrepancies and then twist it as winning the argument.

The fact is, that this study found that 87% of gun deaths of children 0 to 14 years of age occurred in the U.S. when compared to 23 other developed Nations. That is horrible and indefensible.

[Decoy of Fenris]

23. Well, yes, that's the point of a discussion.

But here is the issue, many, including gun advocates will pick apart minor discrepancies and then twist it as winning the argument.

That's what both sides should be doing. As you can see, I'm not out solely to "win the argument". I strive for accuracy from either side; intellectual dishonesty causes me some degree of angst ( ). In this case, I was just flat out wrong. I could attribute it to casual flyby posting as I was managing my daughter, or to math errors, or any number of other causes to try to deflect blame. To be blunt, I just screwed up.

I do agree with your last sentence, though. Too many kids die to firearms in general.

[DirkGently]

26. Well fine. Be reasonable then.

Although I think it is a violation of the way guns are to be discussed on the Internet!

[Decoy of Fenris]

27. "Be the change" and all that.

This discussion needs both sides to be civil and willing to admit when they're wrong. If it means eating crow when crow presents itself with vigor and gusto, then so be it. Pass the salt.

Anyways, I've got to get to work. Take care, mate. o7

[rufus dog]

18. This is why trying to have discussion with gun advocates is so fucking hard

As you referenced, further down they provide an answer

Richardson and Hemenway: Total population for the United States for 2003 was 290.8 million; the combined population for the other 22 countries was 563.5 million. There were 29,771 firearm deaths in the United States and 7,653 firearms deaths in the 22 other countries. Thus, among these 23 countries, 80 percent of all firearm deaths occurred in the United States in 2003, and 86 percent of all women killed by firearms were US women, and 87 percent of all children aged 0 to 14 killed by firearms were U.S. children.

So a minor "gotcha" is identified. But when factoring the other 22 countries, the U.S. has 80% of firearm deaths, 86% of woman were in the U.S., and 87% of all children were U.S. children.

So how the fuck does that become Factcheck disagreeing with the OP. Please tell me you are not trying to cast doubt on the unbelievably horrific record of U.S. gun deaths because that is a tactic used be the NRA and Republicans.

[Decoy of Fenris]

19. See my above post. I rescinded that statement.

I'd self-delete for bad information, but I'm unfond of that feature. If I'm wrong, I'd rather the post itself stay so people can follow the subthread with accuracy.

[rufus dog]

24. Thank you for leaving it up

I am not meaning to pick on you. My objective is to not give one damn inch on accurate statements and to make others defend them.

There is a group that hijacks gun threads and attempts to muddy the waters rather than to deal with the horrific record of U.S. gun violence.

[Decoy of Fenris]

25. We're going at it in two different subthreads now, mate. :P

No worries about "picking on", I screwed the pooch on my own factchecking and got it wrong. You have every right to call me out on it, and you did your due diligence in that. That's not "Picking on", that's you saying "Hey man, ya fucked up. Fix it or walk it back." I have no issue with you doing so and I never will, so long as it's done in a reasonably civil manner.

Anyways, I'll see you in the above subthread. o7

[forest444]

20. In other words, the infograph is absolutely correct.

And the U.S. gun death rate only looks good compared to places that look like this:

[BeyondGeography]

12. Then they will question what constitutes developed countries

[Skittles]

14. or anything else that will show there really is no problem

[onecaliberal]

2. Woohoo, freedumb!! USA USA USA...

[TIME TO PANIC]

4. This should be on billboards!

[NightWatcher]

5. But we're supposed to be scared of terrorists this month...

[Skittles]

8. terrorists ARE gun humpers

[ManiacJoe]

28. Accurate but misleading stats.

Deaths, ages 0-14
USA = 378
other = 58

While 87% is accurate, the population size is too small to be referencing the percentages.

Yes, even 1 death is tragic; but that is not the point of this thread.

[rufus dog]

29. It has been a long time since I took stats but, ...

What the hell are you talking about?

If the total deaths are 436 and 378 are in the U.S. then 378/436 is 86.69% or 87% are in the USA.

That is the point of this thread. Period, nothing else was claimed by the OP.

Again, the point is, 87% of gun deaths of 0 to 14 year olds in the 23 nations are in the USA, also 86% of gun deaths of woman in the same study are in the USA.

[rufus dog]

30. Kick

Seriously, this is horrific. And like Sandy Hook, demands decent discussion regarding solutions, not discussions about how we can't upset the NRA.

[Electric Monk]

31. k&r

[Aerows]

32. To be honest, I'm wondering what "Developed Country" means

Because we lack universal health care, tuition caps so that students aren't strapped until they 35 or 40 for daring to get an education, care for veterans, and a sound safety net.

By those standards, it really shouldn't surprise you. We aren't a "Developed Country."

That has occurred to me over the last couple of days.