When driving your hands should be at 8 and 4 (not 10 and 2)

[underpants]

This was news to me and many others yesterday at a driving course I had to take. Getting a speeding ticket off my record.

Why?
Airbags.

8 and 4 allows for the airbag to deploy without throwing your arms back and, according to the instructor, possibly breaking your thumbs.

This link is from 3 years ago but it was news to me.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2012/05/steering_wheel_science_aaa_say.html

BTW - as I had read in some reviews for this course - if you were wondering what happened to "Jack" from "Will & Grace...he's teaching driving classes now. Not the actor of course but about the closest thing to "Jack" you are going to find. He made the 8 hours bearable.

[MuseRider]

1. My husband took an

"old guy" refresher course after being unable to drive for almost 4 years while a seizure disorder was being worked up and finally controlled. There were a couple of small but different changes. He told me about the change in position but not why. Interesting, I guess I will have to pay attention to that now.

[underpants]

6. Also - 10 inches (a sheet of copy paper) between wheel and chest.

I tried 8-4 driving home and will try to in the future.

[dixiegrrrrl]

13. I learned that I had been using my side mirrors incorrectly all these many years.

Like most people, I thought the side mirrors were to show me cars to my right and left that were BEHIND me.
Turns out, they need to be set to show the blind spot on either side.
I reset them ( I think there may be a youtube about it still up?)
but it took getting used to.
Does work well, however.

[HereSince1628]

36. Whaa? They aren't paint scrappers for the garage door????????????

I need a link to show the SO!

[MuseRider]

25. I don't like 8 - 4

but will try some of the time until I get used to it. I am very short and up on the steering wheel to reach the pedals. Seat up high and forward with a tilt back so I can reach them. Probably not safe but I have yet to see a manufacturer make adjustable pedals. Thank god for the newer, smaller cars and the better adjustments of seat position. When I first started driving people thought there was nobody driving the car when they looked at me going by! I looked between the top of the dash the top of the steering wheel.

[underpants]

34. Sounds like my 2 mile trip home with our flat screen

In a Taurus. My face was against the windshield.

[flygal]

68. LoL I had a few trips home from IKEA like that too!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

72. They say the best used furniture is a mile down the highway from ikea (on the side of the road).

[Bluenorthwest]

2. I have to say that Sean Hayes, who played Jack on Wll & Grace is a constantly working actor and very

successful producer of television such as 'Grimm' and 'Hot In Cleveland'.

[underpants]

4. Thanks. I should have included his name.

I was paraphrasing the review I read and it was dead on. This guy was a hoot - and very knowledgeable.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. I just feel compelled to point that out. But the steering wheel hand placement is very important and

most don't know it, so kick that thread! Thanks for posting this useful information.

[Arugula Latte]

43. Love that guy!

[AngryAmish]

3. I keep one hand on at high noon.

My other hand is usually....umm...occupied.

[MADem]

58. Ewwww. That doesn't sound good at all. nt

[AngryAmish]

62. I enjoy my commute a lot.

[MADem]

63. I guess you do.... nt

[Skittles]

67. let's cut to the chase here

are you watching movies or waxing your pole?

[AngryAmish]

69. Why not both?

[Skittles]

71. SCHEDULING ANGRYAMISH FOR ASS KICKING

DWWP *DRIVING WHILE WATCHING PORN*

[liberal N proud]

5. Makes sense

[NV Whino]

7. Thanks for the info on why

It does make more sense, but I maintain that one can't control the wheel as well at 8 and 4.

So, I'll take my chances with broken thumbs.

[hollysmom]

8. I heard that years ago but I also found I have more trouble turning that way and

if you lose your power steering the wheel can be jerked from your hands. So I semi compromise, except my wheel has a big center console thing that forces my hands out of place. Maybe they should design a car so you can drive in control, but not have your thumbs broken.
Sorry, I have been having a big time car design is down the toiled for that last few expensive months - first I had the key lock problem which turned out that my car computer module did not tell the engine and transmission that my key was in the lock (no longer physically connected), so I could turn it all I wanted and it would not kick in. lucky it was semi in recall, so that was done for free, then my transmission would disengage, turned out that the computer module would not tell the transmission that I stepped on the gas, so it thought I was adrift. - so the replaced the foot pedal, engine acceleration and transmission computer modules and rebuilt my gas pedal, and made me pay, then when it still didn't work, they replaced the battery which was strong enough to turn on the car but apparently not strong enough to run all the computer modules and then it worked. is nothing mechanical anymore?

Anyway, you can see why I am afraid of losing power steering when that computer module goes out.

[DuaneBidoux]

15. I'm all for them saying there's a proven...

"Good Way" but in the end it still may not be the "Best Way" for any given individual (arm injury maybe as an example).

[DuaneBidoux]

9. They had shifted it to 3 & 9 for a while.

I had thought it was because from an anatomical perspective your arms had more force and speed moving vertically than horizontally. But the other poster's reasoning makes more sense especially now if it's been changed again to 4 & 8. In which case you would lose the advantage again gained in the vertical motion.

I still think in the end most drivers need to make their own judgement about what is most comfortable for them. I am very comfortable for daily driving with right hand on 2 and left hand at the 7 to 8 range.

But on long trips of several hours my arms tend to drift downward with left hand varying between 8 and 6 and right hand between 4 and 6 changing positions slightly over time. This is simply because over time my arms start to get tired any higher than that and my thought is that it's not good to have tired and after a time possibly cramping arms.

[tularetom]

10. At least you learned something at traffic school

I got two tickets in two weeks back in 2008 and decided I'd better do something to keep my insurance premiums from going through the roof. I spent six hours watching gruesome gory films of horrible accidents and discovered that you could get fined almost 500 bucks for making an illegal turn in the city but only $160 for going 80 in a 55 zone on a county road (which is what I was there for).

That was when I finally woke up to the true purpose of traffic enforcement - not to promote safe driving or protect people, but simply as a tool to balance the municipal budget.

[underpants]

31. Only 3 short 10 minute films but they were on....gulp...VHS

One was a corny one from the mid-90's about a family learning about airbags at an amusement park

On about a lady in Pennsylvania who spearheaded the no cell phones laws. Her 2 year old was killed by a distracted driver.

Aaaaand of course one about a local kid who died in a crash about 7 years ago.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

73. Yeah, I got a ticket a couple years ago for an illegal turn.

I went back to look - the sign prior to the intersection was completely obscured by a "historic area" banner and the lighted signs across the street had burned out bulbs. The cop had the nerve to ask, in a snotty voice, "didn't you see the three signs?" .

Any whoo. I took a bunch of photos and beat the ticket. In fact, as soon as I pulled out the first photo, the city attorney dismissed the case. But that was after they processed all the "plead guilty and ask for supervision" suckers. They made me and one other person who plead not guilty wait till everybody else got reamed. I think they make the not guilties wait because they don't want the other fine-bots to see how easy it is to beat the ticket.

The worst part was it was like $150 bucks for the ticket and like $200 dollars more for supervision and class. I was quite prepared to take the hit for one ticket. I wasn't going to pay 200 bucks for their charade. Heck, half the people had to reschedule appearances to make installment payments.

[DuaneBidoux]

11. They had shifted it to 3 & 9 for a while.

I had thought it was because from an anatomical perspective your arms had more force and speed moving vertically than horizontally. But the other poster's reasoning makes more sense especially now if it's been changed again to 4 & 8. In which case you would lose the advantage again gained in the vertical motion. Then the rationale about airbag sounds very reasonable.

I still think in the end most drivers need to make their own judgement about what is most comfortable for them. I am very comfortable for daily driving with right hand on 2 and left hand at the 7 to 8 range.

But on long trips of several hours my arms tend to drift downward with hand varying between 8 and 6 and right hand bwteen 4 and 6 changing positions slightly over time. This is simply because over time my arms start to get tired any higher than that and my thought is that it's not good to have tired and after a time possibly cramping arms.

[underpants]

32. I've been trying 8-4 and it slows me down

Not in steering but I literally am driving slower - I am all about gas mileage these days anyway.

On long trips in my wife's car I Amat 6 too. Cruise control and just piloting the boat.

[DuaneBidoux]

39. For me it really varies.

If I am on arterials and side streets I'm pretty automatically at 10 and 2. If I'm on the freeway it'll be higher the more traffic there is. On longer highway trips my hands definitely stay much lower to prevent arm fatigue.

But I do think that all drivers have to find what works best for them. 10 and 2 might be safest generally but not, for example, if you've had an old arm injury that makes that position painful and distracts you because of pain.

[Lizzie Poppet]

47. Which is where mine will stay.

That's how I can control the car best, and that's top priority. I'll deal with any airbag issues if/when they happen.

[DuaneBidoux]

50. Agreed.

The best way to avoid wrist injuries from an airbag is to avoid situations causing it to deploy! Whatever works best for you!

[DuaneBidoux]

12. I just posted twice by accident.

For some reason I'm unable to get the second one to delete.

[Buzz Clik]

16. Don't try to post while driving.

[DuaneBidoux]

21. I was trying to post before my morning coffee...

Which for me is even more dangerous.

[underpants]

28. Hands should be at 8&4 for proper posting

[Buzz Clik]

14. No. The proper position is 12 with the other hand holding your phone on speaker.

When the airbag deploys, the phone will become a permanent implant.



The pic shows a modification: texting with both hands, driving with your knuckles at 10.

[underpants]

26. LOL

I didn't tell him how my professional pizza delivery experience taught me how to drive with my knees.

[libdem4life]

29. Ok darn, I thought you were supposed to use your knee

at times like this. That way you can text faster.

...just in case

[Codeine]

17. I had my hands at 10 and 2 during an airbag deployment.

My thumbs were completely fine.

My glasses were broken, my lip was split, and I had a big gash on the side of my nose from the glasses being smashed into me, but my thumbs had no issues at all.

[kiva]

38. Same here.

Minus the facial injuries...no broken thumbs and I'm a 10/2 driver.

[Codeine]

18. Also, Mythbusters tested this. The airbag

alway struck the forearms in such a way that it moved the arms back before moving them out. Every grip variation tested ended up being thumb-safe during airbag deployment.

[underpants]

30. Well then there's that

I've been trying it and I find it slows me down. Not in the ability to maintain the wheel but I literally am driving slower.

[Le Taz Hot]

19. I'm only 5 feet tall

and have to scoot the seat up almost as far forward as it will go to reach the pedals (shut up!) so if my air bags ever deploy I'm toast anyway. Ironic, ain't it? If the crash doesn't do me in the "safety device" will.

[Codeine]

22. Same with my wife.

She's 5'1" with short, short legs. Every time I get in the car after she's been driving I have this "WTF?! Don't you have any legs?!" reaction. She's so right up on the steering wheel she has to lean the seat back to get to the pedals.

[MillennialDem]

23. You could pull the fuse. I'm at the other end of the spectrum, overly tall and it's what I do (talle

r drivers are also more subject to airbag injuries as the bag deploys on our chin and neck rather than our face).

[Hoppy]

20. Another danger -- this may be a New Jersey thing...

Shot-gun passengers riding with their feet on the dashboard.

A deployed airbag will result in your knee in your face.

[IDemo]

24. I've always driven that way

But airbags aren't an issue on my '93.

I think a bigger problem might be those who drive head down, staring at their DumbshitPhones (and yes, I do see many of them).

[Facility Inspector]

27. I took out my airbags and interior cabin

and replaced with a roll cage.

I have a NASCAR level harness and I usually wear a helmet when I drive.

[underpants]

33. I'll be on the lookout for you

[Codeine]

45. Airbags don't matter when every trip

to the grocery is a rally stage!

[House of Roberts]

35. Left thumb hooked over the wheel spoke on the left side of the wheel,

and right thumb hooked over the right spoke. Index finger and middle finger tips against the back of the spokes, other fingertips against the inside of the wheel, maximizing sensitivity to the vibrations coming from the road through the steering. On my car's steering wheel, the clock positions are about 9:30 and 2:30.

If you pay attention to your driving and the feedback of the car, you won't need airbags. Spend most of your time driving, fiddling with phones or entertainment, and sooner or later you will.

[bluedigger]

48. Another good way to break your thumbs.

I stopped hooking my thumbs through the wheel when I learned to drive off road. Even at slooow speeds, hitting an obstacle can spin the wheel out of your hands and break your thumbs before you can react, with them wrapped around it like that. Now the thumbs lay flat along the top, no need to grip the wheel that hard anyways.

[House of Roberts]

57. I learned to stay ON the road.

I'll leave the off-road racing to the folks that like to break the vehicle every weekend.

Anyway, if you think you're going to hit something you let go of the wheel entirely.

[bluedigger]

66. Just going off the beaten path, not racing.

This is a coworker hitting the bottom of a mudhole hard on a mountaintop job in West Virginia. Not a good time to let go.

[madokie]

37. I'm a 9:30 and 2:30 kind of guy

took a while to get there from 10 and 2. I doubt I'll make the change to 8 and 4 anytime soon

[Arugula Latte]

40. My kids were taught this and that "shuffling" turning method.

The oldest now uses hand-over-hand but I want to tell the youngest to forget that shuffling method and use hand-over-hand after the driver's test because it doesn't lend itself to smooth driving and seems more likely to cause an accident in the first place.

[Codeine]

46. I was never any good at either technique for the most part.

I mostly use my palm to control the wheel when I turn. Seems to work for me.

[Throd]

41. No airbags in a 442.

[Blue_Tires]

64. My man!

[DuaneBidoux]

42. Using your knee is safest while texting.

Been looking for a satire emoticon but can't find one.

[ileus]

44. I usually drive with the left hand at 7.

My right will come in at 2 here and there.

[DirkGently]

49. I think that's bad advice.

That's the bottom of the steering wheel, which is going to give much less control over the car. Sounds like an extreme reaction to the possible dangers of airbag deployment. I've experienced one, with one of the older, more powerful airbags, driving "10 and 2," with no stress to my arms whatsoever. "9 and 3" is not too crazy -- it's the way a lot of race car drivers hold the wheel.

Instead AAA, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and many driving instructors now say you should grip the wheel at 9 and 3 o'clock. A few go even further, suggesting 8 and 4 to avoid the airbag mechanism as much as possible, but what formal research has been published on the varieties of hand positions suggests that this may lessen your control of the car.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/get-times-youre-driving-all-wrong-518710

[Mosby]

54. Good info...nt

[Duckhunter935]

51. yep been that way for years, good you

Are putting it out though.

[still_one]

52. What about 2 and 8? What if I drive with my knees?

Only kidding, I think their reasoning is air bags

[Brickbat]

53. My kid learned that from driver's ed recently. Doesn't matter to me as I steer with my knees.

[Liberal_in_LA]

56. Kinda.awkward

[Codeine]

59. This will all be moot when I get my XBox controller

properly wired up to my car.

[lovemydog]

60. I've heard one hand on the bong and one hand on the cell phone.

The texting hand should remain loose, to turn up the stereo and give the finger to bad drivers.

[U4ikLefty]

61. As long as one hand isn't at 4:20. nt

[lame54]

65. i'm a 6 driver...

need my other hand free for my beer

[Reter]

70. I steer with just one hand like a tough guy, the left all the way on top

Hey, I'm from NYC whaddya expect?

[kentauros]

74. Anyone that drives an emergency vehicle is taught 9 and 3, airbags or not.

Same for racing and stunt drivers. It's all about control.

Your arms will not obscure the airbag, but you will have the greatest control of the steering wheel (and the vehicle) at 9 and 3 versus any other position. And really, control of the vehicle is most important. You don't want that airbag to have to deploy, especially if it's due to your steering ability.

I certainly slip to 8 and 4 when I get tired of my arms up in that higher position, but in situations with stupid drivers around me, I want that greater control of my hands on direct opposite sides of the wheel