Perhaps we should treat guns like cigarettes, or find ways to reduce their circulation...

[Humanist_Activist]

in the populace, to find ways to reduce the availability of both legal and illegal firearms, by making them, and/or their ammunition more expensive. So that, in a couple of decades, guns would be rare, extremely expensive, and the only ones in anyone's hands would be those who are true enthusiasts, hunters(probably communal lodges), and collectors.

I do find it annoying that only mass shootings bring this to the forefront, they happen so rarely they make national news.

[valerief]

1. Happen so rarely! Uh, take your head out of the sand much? Check out the calendar.

[Humanist_Activist]

2. You do bring up a point, but I was comparing mass shootings, as defined with homicides in general...

there were over 11,000 victims in 2013.

[valerief]

4. Chris Rock said every bullet should cost $5000. However, with 3D printing,

guns and bullets can be manufactured at home.

http://www.wired.com/2014/11/atlas-314-3-d-printed-guns-bullets/

We need legislation.

[Humanist_Activist]

18. The problem is that such legislation would be blocked by the courts because of their current...

interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, perhaps a movement to repeal the 2nd is called for.

[valerief]

20. Definitely. We don't need militia with muskets anymore. nt

[Humanist_Activist]

22. Yes, exactly, its almost on the same level as the 3rd Amendment in that its a historical...

anachronism for today's world, and not really relevant. The problem is that while the 3rd is simply quaint and antiquated, the 2nd is a roadblock in true firearm regulation and restriction.

[olddots]

3. I agree with you

Humans are very slow learners .

[Drahthaardogs]

5. I am watching the news and kind of wondering why DU keeps insisting this was a workplace shooting

that would be helped by gun control. These people were radicalized Muslims with ties to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and terrorist organizations. They had pipe bombs and tactical gear and remote control detonation devices. I don't see this as a gun control issue. This is nothing a 100% background check is going to solve.

[Humanist_Activist]

6. Yeah, this sounds like a terrorist attack, which is much rarer than workplace shootings...

My dad's work went through that just a few year ago or so, it was scary. Luckily he didn't leave home yet, but not knowing while hearing on the radio that several people were shot at his work was terrifying.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about gun violence in that its more likely to result in death, and gun violence perpetuated by fellow Americans on Americans for motives that seem much more mundane than terrorism.

[Waldorf]

8. Yes, this was carried out by radicalized Muslims. You could even tell by the different mood of the

President. He was very vocal in the Oregon/Colorado shooting, but quite subdued earlier today.

[Snobblevitch]

7. There have been USSC rulings against

taxing guns and ammo to the point their availability is se ery limited.

[Humanist_Activist]

9. Perhaps then, the 2nd Amendment should be repealed. It would be difficult to do, but technically...

possible.

[Snobblevitch]

12. Then the RKBA issue would revert to the states,

most which have RKBA in their state constitutions. The 2A does not make it illegal to pass laws such as UBC, AWB, or other laws limiting access to guns. It would be illegal to ban all private ownership of arms however.

[Humanist_Activist]

13. True, just want to find legal ways to make it prohibitively expensive for people to either acquire..

guns or maintain their lethality, through ammo regulation.

The vast majority of guns in this country that are used illegally were acquired at some point legally, and then lost, moved or stolen. In my city we have had an alarming amount of guns that are stolen out of people's cars all the time. If we reduced the circulation of guns, then that would be reduced. Confiscation isn't the answer, you would have to know when someone owns a gun, and not all are registered.

[Snobblevitch]

30. You missed my point.

It is legal to ban certain types of new gun sales. It is not legal to tax them so much that they are not available for legal purchase.

It is not about the 2A, it is about what laws our legislative representatives are willing to pass. So far, they are not willing to pass significant gun legislation (bans, confiscations, etc.).

Many guns used in crime were originally straw purchase sales. Only about 10% to 15% were acquired via theft from homes in which the occupants possessed them legally.

[Jesus Malverde]

10. Interesting these solutions that serve to disarm the poor people or less affluent.

Often the most vulnerable in society.

[Humanist_Activist]

11. Considering there is little evidenced that armed people are safer, I don't see why this matters. n/t

[Jesus Malverde]

14. Gun Control Was – Historically – About Repressing Blacks

The KKK began as a gun-control organization. Before the Civil War, blacks were never allowed to own guns. During the Civil War, blacks kept guns for the first time – either they served in the Union army and they were allowed to keep their guns, or they buy guns on the open market where for the first time there’s hundreds of thousands of guns flooding the marketplace after the war ends. So they arm up because they know who they’re dealing with in the South. White racists do things like pass laws to disarm them, but that’s not really going to work. So they form these racist posses all over the South to go out at night in large groups to terrorize blacks and take those guns away. If blacks were disarmed, they couldn’t fight back.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/gun-control-was-historically-about-represssing-blacks.html

[Humanist_Activist]

16. That's some interesting history, its also irrelevant. n/t

[Jesus Malverde]

17. How so?....nt

[Humanist_Activist]

19. Because Gun Regulation and Control is good public policy regardless of what the KKK supported a...

century ago.

[Jesus Malverde]

21. So lets start with law abiding vulnerable people.

Thats your premise.

[Humanist_Activist]

24. If it can reduce the likelyhood of them being injured or killed, hell yes. Is there an objection...

there?

Vulnerable people(I'm assuming you mean firearm owners) are more vulnerable to injury or death from their own guns than the guns of others. We should find ways to mitigate that. Making it more difficult for them to obtain ammunition would be a good first step. In addition, the non-law abiding people would face the same issue.

[hollowdweller]

15. You are on the right track

Think about this. It costs much more and is harder to own a machine gun. How many mass shootings with machine guns??? Very few, too costly and too much red tape for anybody but serious collectors.

I have owned and shot guns for 50 years. When I was coming up the average pistol was a revolver (holds six) and the normal rifles were bolt action (holds 5 usually) and Lever Action ( holds 7) I can remember when the only "military style" rifle were military surplus.

Now I go to my local gun store. It's all stuff made to look like military guns, high capacity pistols.

The gun market has changed from rifles used for hunting and target shooting to apocalypse fantasy stuff. It's no wonder that some people really act it out.

First like cigarettes advertising high capacity pistols and rifles should be banned. Second going forward we either need to subject purchasers of guns capable of high capacity clips or guns designed to shoot people to the same red tape as machine guns or some kind of tax.

Not BANNING any sort of rifle or pistol, but I think if people had to ORDER such guns thru their gun store rather than walking into a store full of them, and maybe pay some sort of tax we'd see less sold.

I personally would much rather shoot a bolt action, or 6 shooter, or muzzle loader than a semi auto because I take less time on each shot, and waste more ammo with a semi auto.

I think the gun community should maybe try to make a turn from the whole zombie apocalypse marketing and military angle and instead focus on accuracy guns that are not styled after weapons of war. Sends a bad message.

[Throd]

23. Make it another form of white privilege?

[Humanist_Activist]

27. Different issue entirely, racial discrimination and privilege leading to economic disparity is not..

relevant to this thread. Start another thread about that issue.

Any attempt to regulate a harmful product(such as tobacco and/or firearms) through economic means is a valid policy position.

[Throd]

28. I live in an affluent (and very very white) community...

Raising the price of firearms and ammunition would merely be a nuisance for most people in my neighborhood. In other neighborhoods, with a lower income and a much higher non-white populace, the cost would be prohibitive.

[Humanist_Activist]

29. And? n/t

[Throd]

31. I guess you're right. Fuck 'em. They don't need to defend themselves if they want to.

The irony is that I am way less likely to need a gun for self-defense here in Lily-White Heights that in the struggling neighborhoods.

[Humanist_Activist]

34. The flaw in your thinking is assuming that firearms are good for "self-defense" when study after...

study has observed that those who own guns or have guns in their homes are more likely to be victims of those devices than able to use them to defend themselves from crime.

[thucythucy]

32. So you oppose taxes on cigarettes as well?

After all, they impact poor people disproportionately, right?

[LuvNewcastle]

25. I think that the only way we're going to stop

the proliferation of guns is to stop making the fucking things. That's what we're trying to accomplish with nukes, and I think all the laws in the world won't really help until we stop gun manufacture. As far as 3-D printers go, I think it should be illegal to possess a program to make plastic guns and bullets. Guns are WMD too.

[Humanist_Activist]

26. At this time, plastic guns and bullets wouldn't be very lethal, and would be, at best, props for....

plays or such.

3D printed metal gun parts and bullets would be an issue in the future. But, if we can ban mass manufacturing, then it would be relegated to a largely niche market, though a very dangerous one.

[Recursion]

33. Smoking went from, what? 75% to 10% in a generation?

And yeah, I definitely agree it's problematic that the discussion is only driven by mass shootings. If yesterday was an ordinary day, 50 Americans took their own lives with a firearm.

[Humanist_Activist]

35. The big difference is that firearms aren't consumables, the bullets are...

though reloading of bullets is possible. But, even assuming you don't have clandestine manufacturing of replacements and/or parts, many models of guns today can remain in good working order for decades if maintained properly. Bullets can be stashed or reloaded/manufactured, and its easier, marginally, to do so than it is to grow your own tobacco. So I wouldn't expect gun ownership or even gun deaths to decrease significantly for a long time to come, but it would gradually decrease.