“Syed Farook is an American"

[busterbrown]

Great Message....I’m gonna spread it..

http://www.salon.com/2015/12/03/syed_farooq_is_an_american_lets_stop_the_muslim_vs_christian_debate_and_take_a_look_at_ourselves/

[blueman mmxvi]

1. read that this morning

Is he native-born? I don't have any info on that.

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. Illinois

http://abc7chicago.com/news/san-bernardino-mass-shooting-suspects-idd;-1-born-in-illinois/1107868/

[katmondoo]

4. Yes, I read he was American born , his was not.

His wife was born in Pakastan

[woodsprite]

75. Parents were born in Pakistan, wife was Saudi. He was born in the US. n/t

[Imajika]

2. Most Christians, not all, but most don't kill in the name of their religion...

They may use religion to make themselves feel better about some awful thing they do, but with few exceptions they are not doing it in the name of Christianity.

Islam is identified with terrorism around the world because said Muslim terrorists claim they are killing in the name of their faith. In other words their faith is what drives them to murder (or some bizarre interpretation of it). There is a big difference.

No matter how many times people try to equate the two, it just won't work and few people are going to buy it.

[jonno99]

5. There are many who will find your opinion unpalatable...nt

[Imajika]

16. Too bad..

I've lived in Asia and Islamic radicalism is a big problem in some of those countries too - and it has nothing to do with Israel or any other excuse people hide behind.

Don't get me wrong, all religions have fanatics. No doubt. But right now, at this point in history, Islam is the religion struggling the most with modernity. That is the core of the problem. There is no "war on terror", there is only radicals trying to draw the West and any "other" they can into the fight against nominal/moderate/irreligious Muslims who just want to live their lives. Muslim fundamentalists know if they can draw "outsiders" into the fight it strengthens their position. Much like an unpopular government often seeks to go to war with someone, anyone, because they know the "wrap around the flag" effect is very real (though fleeting).

[smirkymonkey]

18. +1000

[cwydro]

27. And I'll see your 1000

and double it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I would say that the root of religious fundamentalism

regardless of day of the week people pray at, is precisely... a conflict with modernity. Some religions have more of an issue with this expressing itself in a violent form, than others, but that has been a pattern not limited to one faith.

For the record, nor is this limited to the three abrahamic religions either. It is in my mind also a result of the increasing crisis of climate change and other issues that are making life more and more difficult.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

74. Yes. The pictures of this mess are shocking, imo.

Much like an unpopular government often seeks to go to war with someone, anyone, because they know the "wrap around the flag" effect is very real (though fleeting).

Very good comparison.

[etherealtruth]

6. For the record Most MUSLIMS don't kill in the name of their religion! n/t

[ryan_cats]

19. Of course not

Of course not.

Yet, five seconds after the PP attack, posters here were hyperventilating about Christianity and their supposed role in the PP and how they 'own' the problem.

Now, oh well, this is different; we need to wait until all the facts are out.

What a load of rank hypocrisy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Alas some of us do not speculate on motives

but you are correct on the speculation. There are some folks here who were desperate, and do not even know the different types of RW (and I mean far right) ideologies in the United States.

I see those folks are absent in the speculation, but we have a whole different group desperate to make this a terrorist issue.

I shan't name names, but it does match a certain left right ideological divide within the democratic party.

Me waiting for the afternoon presser to I can update the story from the morning, which shan't be posted here. It has no speculation on my part. I know the horror. Just the facts as given by those who actually know a tad more.

[demosincebirth]

60. Hypocricy is king, here.

[treestar]

72. I didn't see that so much as that Fox or Limbaugh or such

might be responsible, sort of like radical Imams might be.

[FrodosPet]

77. MOST Muslims don't kill in the name of their religion.

But SOME do.

MOST Christians don't kill in the name of their religion.

But SOME do.

MOST Jews don't kill in the name of their religion.

But SOME do.

MOST Buddhists don't kill in the name of their religion.

But SOME do.

And so on and so on and so on.

The trouble is in the scope and the aims. Islam has the highest percentage of people willing to kill and die specifically to spread their particular beliefs.

That MUST be recognized for what it is. NOT an indictment of all Muslims, but an indictment of radical violent interpretations of Islam.

[randys1]

13. sigh

[rockfordfile]

39. yes they're the same

[treestar]

71. Still doesn't make the other Muslims responsible

And the PP shooter may have been motivated by his religion.

[WillowTree]

7. Not anymore. He isn't anything in the present tense anymore.

[uppityperson]

9. He's a dead american

[6chars]

36. lol

[B2G]

10. Whatever helps you sleep at night. nt

[Shandris]

11. LOL.

[kentuck]

12. Said Farouk was a weak-minded, proselytized, religious fanatic...

...and now he is dead....along with 14 others.

[JCMach1]

23. Amen!

Some irony intended...

[snagglepuss]

14. Meaningless piffle. He resided in America but

clearly he identified solely as Muslim, an extremist Muslim but neverthe less a Muslim. By his actions clearly he rejected and loathed America and its citizens.

[redstateblues]

30. They are among us now and skilled at hiding

This was a tipping point for Americans' perception of Muslims. How are we supposed to tell the difference between the killers and the peaceful.

[snagglepuss]

34. On one hand, how do you know a non-Muslim co-worker is going

to go postal or ia non-Muslim neighbor is a serial killer? You don't. America has countless numbers of non-Muslims violent wackos. Crazies are everywhere, this bunch of losers just add to their numbers. That said, I think what needs to happen is for sane Muslims and imams to be more watchful and suspicious of the uber-pious among them.

You might want to search for the Reddit thread that started after Paris where of thousands of Muslims express their utter contempt of ISIS. It really hits home that the millions of non-extremist Muslims despise the extremists and the atrocities they are committing.

[sibelian]

37. Yes, I saw that thread, I think everyone should see it.

It was simultaneously very heartfelt and very enlightening.

[snagglepuss]

78. Wasn't it you that posted that link to the Reddit here?

Muslims make a big mistake when after such incidents they repeat how such incidents have nothing to do with Islam. It'd be a lot better if they actually gave their honest response like people did on Reddit. The its -has -nothing- to- do- with Islam is just so pat and meaningless.

[sibelian]

79. No, but I DID repost it on Discussionist...

Although the excerpts I took from it weren't the ones that were highlighted here (can't find it now, I think it was an actual OP). It seemed like a good idea to let some of the conservatives over there have a read of what some actual Muslims thought and also I thought it was interesting that some of the Muslim commentators were seriously considering leaving the religion as a result of the attacks.

[rockfordfile]

40. go back to fox news right wing propaganda network

[alarimer]

33. How do you know this?

Are you a mind reader? We don't really know why, yet.

[snagglepuss]

44. Their amassing an arsenal and killing unarmed civilians is proof of hatred.

The very definition of hatred includes the wish to harm the object of hatred. These assholes assembled bombs and weapons and had a plan. They put the plan into action. Plus to top it off he has been in contact with extremists. Soooo if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

[napkinz]

15. here we go again, time to play ...

[AuntPatsy]

26. Recommending your post :)

[treestar]

73. Yep.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. At the risk of annoying a few here...

The attitudes you possess—that Arabs are beholden to violent culture, that Islam singularly produces religious evil, that Syrian refugees threaten American safety, that the Middle East and South Asia are places of mystical barbarity—have existed since before 9/11, but they seem to have a particular resonance in the current presidential election.

(from your link)

Blacks were criminal brutes by nature, and something more than the law of civilized men was needed to protect the white public.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/the-black-family-in-the-age-of-mass-incarceration/403246/

That piece from The Atlantic should be read in full, The point I am pointing to here, is that we are creating a mythology of the muslim as a super predator, not unlike that of African Americans, and other minorities to a lesser extent.

Oh and adding this from the same piece, more as food for thought that I expect to fall on really non fertile ground but what the hell

Dark predictions of rising crime did not bear out. Like the bestial blacks of the 19th century, super-predators proved to be the stuff of myth. This realization cannot be regarded strictly as a matter of hindsight.

Now back to my reading. I am not going to bother with facts here any more.

[AngryAmish]

24. Islam makes holy taking many wives.

Islam also makes holy taking non Muslim women either sex slaves or wives.

It makes for being a bad neighbor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Super predators theories have been used as a justification for bad policy (eom)

[AngryAmish]

29. That is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. I am sure it is

But not surprised.

[AngryAmish]

22. And Ted Cruz is Canadian.

[akbacchus_BC]

62. No, he is not Canadian! Tell me you are kidding!

[AngryAmish]

70. He was born in Canada. Ergo, by the logic of this article, Canadian.

As if being born somewhere means you are culturally of that place. It is a grindingly stupid and frankly ascientific premise but axes are there to be ground.

[still_one]

28. As distasteful as it may be for some, he is an american in name only. In thought an deed he spit on

Last edited Fri Dec 4, 2015, 01:03 AM - Edit history (1)

on America

He choose the Jihadist way, and killed friends and colleagues who invited him to their parties, and befriended him. This is how he paid them back.

The people he killed were NOT unknown to him, and while the American culture loves their guns and slaughter, a good portion of this massacre had to do with his hatred of America, and unfortunately, there is no escape from that fact.

I hope the bastard burns in hell, because he sure created a hell, not only for those he killed and wounded, but for those American Muslims who will be wrongly blamed for his hatred

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. And as distasteful as it might sound to you

under the law of nations and US Law he was an American citizen...

And I will reserve what I think of this comment at the moment, not that it surprises me in the least.

[still_one]

38. only on a piece of paper, but not in his evil heart. Your comments don't surprise me either

have a nice evening

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. evil heart...

where have i heard words like this before? Hmm

At least you are not using insect analogies.

And thanks for confirming exactly I thought of you...time to do it...

[still_one]

42. I am glad you don't consider him evil. I hate to ask you how you would characterize the Planned

Parenthood killer, the hillside stranger, mason or the other evil jerks that have taken innocent lives.

Tell the families of the 14 killed, and 17+ wounded, that you think characterizing Farook as an evil heart is an unjust characterization.

We are not going to agree on this

[still_one]

45. don't call me a racist because of your politically correct sense of whatever. There are a lot of

obviously anti-Muslim posts going around on DU now. Mine is NOT one of them

Anyway, you too have a nice evening also

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. DING, DING, DING DIng

"politically correct" term coming up. Lovely, Where else have I read that before? Oh yes, the lovely sites off this one for example... that trend VERY CONSERVATIVE... nice RW talking point right there.

Fact

He was born and raised in Ohio, and unless I miss my cue, Ohio is STILL IN THE UNITED STATES. I am willing to learn, who what country is Ohio now part off?

This makes this young man a US Citizen, FACTS are not politically or not correct, they just are.


By the way, you may also go and correct the FBI on this being terrorism. They have not come out and said it and I will wait for them to come out and FACTUALLY SAY IT. I am that way.

The act was horrific. I do not need to add the fantastic to it... like you are doing right now all over this site.

Oh and this post of yours is pretty bad.

Star Member still_one (40,013 posts)
15. I think the reason for that is obvious. What his Farook did had everything to do with

Islamic Jihadism, according to the evidence they have found so far.

What his brother-in-law is trying to do is defuse any anti-Muslim sentiments against the whole American Muslim community.

I didn't hear him specifically hear him say it wasn't due to religion, but I may have missed it. I did hear him say they don't know what the motivational factors were, including radical ideology, which could imply jihadist Islam. However, even though I missed it, by saying it doesn't have anything to do with religion, could be the standard statement after similar instances, that the act done was actually against the religion. If that is so, that would not contradict that Farook's mindset did do it with a religious ideology in mind, but his brother-in-laws view was, that is not consistent with Muslims.

Maybe I am reading more into than it is
Reply to this post
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And you'd better call the FBI in Los Angeles and point to them the evidence they have missed so far that had David Bowditch say this in the morning.

“Premature of me to call this terrorism.” David Bowdich, FBI

See the facts of the case are not saying that this had a thing to do with Jihad... whether they will tomorrow morning or not, I will let the FBI set the tone, not you. Or for that matter all those in media going, but we are being told on background.... yeah they were also told on background about the Go Pros the Chief shot down this morning.

And you are correct in one respect, you are not the worst... but that does not mean you are not engaging in it.

Oh and before you say it, I am not stakking you or chasing you. I just happened to see that post and went gobsmacking unreal.

[bettyellen]

54. So the pipe bombs made with instructions from Inspire magazine are a coinky-dink?

Time to get real.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. The FBI has not said such either

that has been all the media blather... speculation, all day

And you also have a wonderful day

On and a clarification is needed,

They had 3 bombs, with a remote control, 12 pipe bombs at home, and material, and tools, The Inspire comment came from a question this morning which Bowditch was clear, when he said he expected the question, they were looking at it, but they had no motive or evidence at that time.

What they will have tomorrow morning is a good question. To quote him again "this is not a race, but a marathon."

[bettyellen]

68. He destroyed his hard drive and phones to cover his tracks the day before. That implicates others,

aside from the wife.
The way that Isis uses women as fodder to reward or lure men (handing them over to jihadis to rape or marry) you think it was match.com that got them together? Let me give you a hint- if she is as ultra conservative as his friends say, men are deciding for her who she "dates", where she goes, etc. She was put with him because her Dad or uncle wanted it. We both know that is how it works.

[still_one]

64. A U.S. intelligence official told AP that Farook had been in touch with extremists on social media

accounts, and the FBI had been monitoring the situation:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/san-bernardino-shooting_56601e68e4b08e945fee2264?9lh4zpvi

don't call me a racist, you don't know what you are talking about. Farouk and his accomplice are the ones I have condemned. That you consider that racist is amazing.

[akbacchus_BC]

47. Nadin, I really like you for your courage on DU, but

sometimes you have to ignore bigots and racists. They are everywhere, just ignore them. You will feel better. You feed their ignorance when you respond to them -- I got attention and that is what they are looking for.

Hope you are keeping well!

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I am doing well, thank you

Hey, I expect an alert as well. It is the way they roll.

[akbacchus_BC]

51. No, you hang in there. I really like your passion for the truth.

I have always admired you and sometimes you succumb to angst on here but you bounce back. That is so admirable.

[ericson00]

35. well put.

nt

[akbacchus_BC]

46. He was an American. He was born in the US but allowed his differences to

go kill his coworkers. Perhaps, he had mental issues, who knows. But when you see all the preparations prior to the shootings, he was bent on killing his co-workers. For that, I have no sympathy! It was a senseless, horrid killing and it brings me back to how can one or two individuals amass so much arms and ammunition that the authorities let it fly.

Are there no control on buying arms and ammunitions in the US?

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. A amall primer

you can go to a store in California and buy, legally mind you, a gun a month, Police officers can buy several but they have to show a badge.

As to ammo. I could go tonight and buy 40000, or 50000 rounds no problem... as long as they have then in the store.

As to the rest, I can buy tools, you can buy tools, and we do not know the details of what they used for explosives.

We have 100,000 people shot a year, according to the brady campaign

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/16/16547690-just-the-facts-gun-violence-in-america?lite

And the problem is that it used to be shocking when somebody was shot... there are neighborhoods in this town that nobody covers,

That said, and this is important. While mass shootings are on the way up... simple every day assaults, robberies and murders are way down.

[Liberty Belle]

58. Ammo limits iniitaitive may be on the CA ballot next year:

Lt Gov. Gavin Newsom announced he's working to get this on the ballot (In Oct. before this shooting). I imagine San Bernardino will add fuel to his efforts:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article39234468.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Which will be a good thing

I did not want to go into the lead either.

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/hunting/nonlead-ammunition

Abachus is Canadian, where the laws are different. There are more guns around and less gun violence... it is high time we explore WHY this happens with regularity in the US. It is well beyond me going to the store to buy myself a nice AR-15 .223 S&W MP model (incidentally one of the two long guns used).

Per the ATF two were bought in San Diego, a 9mm and one of the .223, I have no idea which... nor that it matters that much. Legally bought, that is all that matters.

[akbacchus_BC]

61. Nadin, it is not easy to get a gun in Canada. You have to apply first and need at least

three references who know you and can attest that you have a calm demeanour and you need a gun for self protection. I know this because my son-in-law wanted to get a gun and he had to go through a lot of hoopholes. I was one of his references and by the time they got around to asking me questions about my son-in-law, I had totally forgot that he had applied for a gun licence. Eventually, he was approved but he never went to take the lessons, so he never got a gun. Canada is really strict with regard to guns.

You would not believe this, when looking at border security and Americans entering Canada with guns, they are so angry that Canada's gun laws are so restrictive. The best are the ones who say 'I am an American and I can bear arms', Border security says 'no doubt, but you are now in Canada, you are not allowed to bear arms! Frigging priceless!

[akbacchus_BC]

65. Buying so much ammo does not raise a red flag? Why would a regular person

need to buy so much ammo? I think the NRA is encouraging assholes to stockpile weapons and ammunitions for no reason! I do not know how the Government is going to get gun control to work unless there are more background checks.

[Aerows]

50. When you kill a bunch of innocent people

and injure a whole lot more, I reserve the right to not give a shit where you were born, where you live, and what religion you ascribe to.

The individuals that committed this crime are natives of the country of POS, along with the other ones that mass-shot innocents.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Well I can certainly agree with the pos comment.

[Aerows]

56. I lost my temper there for a second.

I am so tired of these idiots shooting up everyone and everything.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Regardless of what the FBI finds

motive wise, we need to do something as a culture in the big picture. I think the POTUS has it right, but politically I do not know how many more of these shootings will be needed. The cover of the NY paper tonight gives me hope, Conservative as hell, second night in a row they are being rational

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7412881

[Aerows]

66. I agree with you, my friend. It's just pure insanity to go on this way without

actually putting some damn laws in place to prevent this kind of thing.

[busterbrown]

67. “These idiots” as you describe them

are nothing more than byproduct of a culture which has become riddled with hate and stacked high with guns,,

[Yorktown]

63. Never saw such unabashed whitewashing

So the motivation of the murders is that Sayed Farooq was an American?

Gee..

[Democat]

69. Watch for the writer's next article "We Are All Sayed Farooq"

Some on our side refuse to change their views no matter what evidence is presented.